Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Vaalingrade Ashland 08-03-03, 11:32 PM	Hello all, a friend just convinced me to play in her otherwise all female game. She wants me there to rules lawyer for her (her first game). Now, she's given me this character (my first adult female character) who she says should be suited for a rogue/assassin or shadowdancer. No problem so far. But here's the kicker: the game starts in modern day (we go to DnD world later). She expects a good background fro all of us, and normally that wouldn't be a problem for me, but the double whammy of being a female and modern has thrown me for a loop. All I'm working on is that she has to be realativly religious and asian (I don't know why). I've named her Jai Sazaki, decided that she'll be from Detroit, have mob connections and have a thing for Motown music ^_^. but that all. no real concept and no class. Please, inspire me.
Fox Lee 08-03-03, 11:51 PM	There is one important thing to remember when building a female character: do exactly what you would do for a male character. If having to write a background for a female is throwing you off, you need to remember that as far as backgrounds go, anything that could fit a guy could fit a girl as well - just make her a believeable character, and she'll be a believeable woman. As for class, it sounds like you should go with the Rogue idea. Most of the D&D classes simply can't be justified in a Modern world, or at least not in a vaguely true-to-life modern world. Rogue would make the most sense; if she has already mob connections, making her a criminal (or at least a dubiously lawless type) probably isn't far to jump. I'm tempted to suggest Barbarian multiclassing, for the appeal of high STR on a woman, and anger management issues - which could play in well if you want a reluctant criminal type, who isn't evil, but does tend to lose her temper over certain issues (probably things that trigger bad memories - the possibilities are limitless!). Also, bartenders always make for fun characters - her role in return for whatever help she gets from her "contacts" could be to run a sort of safehouse. I can see her doing well as the gritty, cynical bartender/owner whose one true joy in life comes from listening to the music she loves. Pump her perform skill so she's actualy bloody good at making that music, too, but have her be very guarded about it, and never perform or mention it to anybody unless they press the issue.
Trydan 08-04-03, 03:09 AM	Perhaps monk might be a useful class to take, although I agree with Fox Lee that Rogue is a general purpose utility class for the modern world. Assuming that your are male, then playing a female character is a challenge. A challenge to make it convincing, that is. It is all too easy to end up with a "grizzled drill-seargent in a skirt (complete with moustache)". No matter how masculine this woman is, there will be an emotional/empathetic side that is next-to-impossible for males to portray. That's why it needs lots of work. Best of luck with it...
Zoticus 08-04-03, 08:15 AM	Instead of mob connections, you might have her be a punk rocker or skinhead (yes there are female skinheads...they are called byrds)...politically aware and lashing out against authority in her own way. It also gives her many of the skills that are used by rogues and a "street smart" background. Throw in some tattoos and piercings as well as language common to those genres and you are halfway to a unique character. NOTE: For any who aren't already aware...not all skinheads are racist.
Fox Lee 08-05-03, 12:07 AM	Originally posted by Trydan Assuming that your are male, then playing a female character is a challenge. A challenge to make it convincing, that is. It is all too easy to end up with a "grizzled drill-seargent in a skirt (complete with moustache)". No matter how masculine this woman is, there will be an emotional/empathetic side that is next-to-impossible for males to portray. This is absolutely NOT true! One could generalise that women are usually more emotional and empathetic than men, and they might be right, but saying that this means any given female character has to be so, to the point where a male would have trouble playing her, is complete and utter bulltwang! There does not need to be any damn difference at all. I implore you, Vaalingrade, let your character be free of the stupid gender conventions that out society places upon us. Just make her as you would any other character. If you truly want to do justice to a female character, all you need to do is look beyond her gender, and you'll be fine.
Trydan 08-05-03, 04:04 AM	I can understand your sentiment, Fox Lee, and I agree that what I said implies a massive generalisation. I guess where I was coming from was this. If you have a male sitting there playing, all one's visual and audio cues say male, even though you intellectually know the character is female. Then, if that character acts in a way that conforms to the stereotypical behaviour of males, it only serves to reinforce that opinion. So, if the only thing that changes between the current (female) character and the previous (male) character is the flip between using the masculine/feminine pronouns then, for me, it is unconvincing. In years of gaming, in mixed-gender groups, I have personally found the occasions when the female players in the group have attempted male characters, that they are believable. And in the cases where the male players have attempted female characters, they have failed, in the opinions of all the players. However, that could just mean that I play in a defective gaming group. I agree with Fox lee that Vaalingrade Ashland should feel free to break the "gender conventions"; this is fantasy role-playing after all, and we happily break the laws of physics everytime we cast a spell. However, I wouldn't go so far as to call these gender conventions "stupid", nor "placed upon us by society". They evolved naturally over thousands of years, and it only so happens that due to the industrial-/technical-revolution, that it is now practical/possible to change some roles. What we are talking about here, though, is making a character believable. If one removes the cues, regardless as to whether they are stereotypes, qualities or defects, then the suspension-of-reality becomes difficult to sustain. In which case, why label with gender at all? However, this is all just from my own experience, and while I think I have a reasonable view of the situation, I know that it will not be completely right. I guess my main point, was that if you are going to play and opposite-gender character, you will need to work hard at it. Obviously, Fox Lee's has had a different experience, and her views should be taken on board. Yet at the end of the day it's your own game. Try it. If it doesn't work, try something else. Good luck with it, and let us know how you get on.
Vaalingrade Ashland 08-05-03, 11:41 AM	Thanks for the help so far. I think I'll stick to rogue for now. The bartender idea seems intresting. Just so you know, I am a man and my concern about playing a female is that besides me, the rest of the group is going to be made up of my female friends and I don't want to be either too male or too steretypical.
Fox Lee 08-06-03, 01:03 AM	Originally posted by Trydan I can understand your sentiment, Fox Lee, and I agree that what I said implies a massive generalisation. I guess where I was coming from was this. If you have a male sitting there playing, all one's visual and audio cues say male, even though you intellectually know the character is female. Then, if that character acts in a way that conforms to the stereotypical behaviour of males, it only serves to reinforce that opinion. So, if the only thing that changes between the current (female) character and the previous (male) character is the flip between using the masculine/feminine pronouns then, for me, it is unconvincing. While I understand what you're saying, I have to feel sorry for you ^^; I've never had a problem with that sort of thing myself; the personality of the character is irrelevant ot me. If the players says it's a girl, it's a girl. Though I'll admit this is possibly aided by having a dead-even male-to-female ratio in our group (I was the only woman there - in our entire club, even - for years, but then there was a sudden flux - probably because our games became anime-flavoured, and anime is directed far more at both genders than traditional fantasy). In years of gaming, in mixed-gender groups, I have personally found the occasions when the female players in the group have attempted male characters, that they are believable. And in the cases where the male players have attempted female characters, they have failed, in the opinions of all the players. However, that could just mean that I play in a defective gaming group. I'll agree that I have noticed some similar circumstances. However, in my experience, it has always been because the guys have been playing "talk to the boobs" characters - you know - Telepaths/Wizards/Sorceresses who wear tiny skerricks of leather, can't fight worth crud, and have a huge "Charisma", if you know what I mean. I don't find them hugely believeable as females, no - but that's only because I find them ridiculous as characters. I might add that if women are better at playing both genders than men are, I blame society. It is far more often accepted for a women to act masculine (we're allowed to wear pants, do self-defense classes and take control, and if you don't let us you're sexist!) than it is for a man to act in a feminine manner (we all know what people think when they see a bloke in a dress - it's sad, but that's the way it is). Our D20 Modern game was an interesting occurrence. In keeping with my personal trends, I played a STR-18 redhead who was 6'3" and fought with a giant crowbar. The irony was that the two other players - without any influence from me or each other - chose this same game to break their trends, and both wound up making... six-foot-plus redheads who kicked serious arse ^^; The remaining player, my fiancee, was the only male in the party (until the last session at least) - a geeky Uni student role-player, somewhere around 5'3", who couldn't fight to save his arse :p I agree with Fox lee that Vaalingrade Ashland should feel free to break the "gender conventions"; this is fantasy role-playing after all, and we happily break the laws of physics everytime we cast a spell. However, I wouldn't go so far as to call these gender conventions "stupid", nor "placed upon us by society". They evolved naturally over thousands of years, and it only so happens that due to the industrial-/technical-revolution, that it is now practical/possible to change some roles. I certainly would. They have "evolved" only because once they were in play, they were continually reinforced, and the genders were pushed further and further apart. What we are talking about here, though, is making a character believable. If one removes the cues, regardless as to whether they are stereotypes, qualities or defects, then the suspension-of-reality becomes difficult to sustain. In which case, why label with gender at all? I have a hard time accepting that it's difficult to believe a character is female without having her act like a girl. I don't mean offense here - you seem to be an intelligent person, and not unpleasant - but if it's a problem for you to believe a character is female without her being stereotypically female, I think you need to be a bit more open-minded ^^; However, this is all just from my own experience, and while I think I have a reasonable view of the situation, I know that it will not be completely right. I guess my main point, was that if you are going to play and opposite-gender character, you will need to work hard at it. Obviously, Fox Lee's has had a different experience, and her views should be taken on board. Yet at the end of the day it's your own game. Try it. If it doesn't work, try something else. I agree, but only on the grounds that "work hard" means "be careful not to just make her a walking stereotype because you can't imagine any other kind of woman". As I said before, the most important thing is just to make a good character, and the rest will fall into place. Just to briefly get back onto topic, mentioning our d20Modern campaign reminds me that another fun choice for an urban character who could do well in a Fantasy setting, is a bouncer! Levels of Fighter will leave you with pleasant amounts of flexibility, so you could create a straight-out brawler or a tricky tactical combatant as you wish; you could also split between Fighter and Rogue, to keep your Skills decent and supplement your fighting abilities with Sneak Attack - quite appropriate for a modern character. It also occurs to me that a weapons enthusiast could be fun, and an acceptable way to explain a modern character being familiar with a bunch of archaic weapons. She could be well-off, monetarily speaking (thanks to her mob connections), but live a relatively simple life in order to indulge a passion for collecting fantasy-style weaponry. Hell, it'd probably be cool to make her have a taste for fantasy literature or gaming, just to see her hit the ground running when you make it to the D&D world :p
Finglas Leaflock 08-06-03, 11:36 AM	As a guy who plays female characters at least half the time, I want to point out that the group you're playing in gives you a huge advantage toward playing a realistic female character. It'd probably be more difficult to overplay or underplay the gender role (which is far from the biggest factor in your character's personality, you'll probably--hopefuly--find) when you're surrounded by real-life women being themselves. Also, your concern about doing this right should help you do a good job. Good luck, sounds like you'll be fine. Enjoy your game!