Post/Author/DateTime	Post
VampyresThrenody 11-26-07, 12:08 AM	My DM is running a no-magic, human only campaign. We're essentially a part of this organization that goes around killing everything that isn't us. In other words, big evil warlocks, good warlocks, innocent elf children and cruel undead. Oh and the occasional old lady. No one's evil it's just we all hate magic/non-human types (or at least most of the players do). Anyway, I love creating character ideas and concepts even when I don't go through with them. Currently my character's a platemail wearing spiked chain fighter who focuses on battlefield control. RP wise he places himself as the leader, forces commoners to become his squire when his current, former commoner, squire dies and iterates many uses of "We are blah-blah- and I demand you answer my questions." I want something different. I'll list the restrictions for ideas: No magic casting or using class. No non humans (we do have one half-elf but..no one knows that in game) Nothing traditional. I've probally done it already or someone already is doing it. Idea can include game statistics, but tie it all into background/personality. Thanks!
Orchomenos 11-28-07, 02:29 PM	What about a Persian carpet trader, ridding a camel and fighting with a scimitar?
Terjon of the Blue Rose 11-29-07, 12:29 AM	Or a sleight of hands master who doesn't have any real magic but can fake it pretty dang well. (smokesticks, thunderstones, alchemist fire, tanglefoots, etc.)
Tordak 11-29-07, 10:52 AM	Does no-magic apply only for players, or is it a very low-magic campaing?And does that include supernatural abilities? I'm asking because a Dragon Shaman would be pretty darn good in that context, and uses no 'magic' per say; imagine having a breath and the ability to heal your companion when magic is almost unavailable. Also I recall a class from Forgotten realm (Thinker or the like) that makes object that have abilities similar to magic (explosive and stuff) but aren't magic. Would that also be excluded?
VampyresThrenody 11-29-07, 04:32 PM	Only players can't use magic. Suffice to say we still have to fight the occasional wizard or sorceror. I doubt the DM would let me play a dragon shaman. I should look over the class to see, but I can assume that at least in part it gains abilities that transmute the character's appearance. If society wouldn't accept an elf I find it unlikely they would accept a man with dragon wings! I recently put together a ninja/swordsage/monk going into shadow sun ninja. Not sure what to do about that capstone transforming ability though. Have to see if that would be considered too 'unusual.'
Tordak 11-30-07, 09:04 AM	Well that sort of covers the next idea I had, if you can't be Dragon Shaman. Dragon Shaman changes your appearance a little (you can some natural armor which might be in the form of slightly apparent scale, check to make sure), but the only major change are wings and they don't appear until level 19, so there's always time to stop the progression if you character feel he would be ostracized. The next idea was for a martial adept from tome of battle if you were allowed, and it appears you are. Any class in there is good. I also though you could go with Monk. It will be easy to make a swordsage or a monk and build them with their background aroud being trained to kill evil arcane users (monk have good saving throw and spell resistance later, swordsage have access to many maneuver). Also consider the warblade because he has access to Iron Heart discipline (you can gain some of it with feat but not higher level), which mean Iron Heart surge, which will undoutfully get you out of nasty situations with some spellcaster, and other really good maneuvers. I have a particular build for a monk, if you want it I'll post it. For martial adept, there are so many maneuvers you can choose from, but your Shadow Sun ninja should have the level 9 ability from 'Shadow something' (sorry, don't remember the name of the discipline), the enervating strikes. Also consider taking any setting sun maneuvers that allow you to parry enemy attack (fool's strikes and the like), and stone dragon maneuvers that stop the enemy from doing stuff (lose there movement, unable to take standard action, etc) and ignore damage resistance (mountain hammer and the like). You want the maneuvers that make you incorporal and grant concelament as well. If you have a few spare feats take martial maneuver for IronHeart surge. Improved natural weapon is a most, and there a special kind of 'feat' you can get from oriental adventure, call empty hand, that make you unarmed strikes even stronger, relying on your ability to strikes hard. It's not a feat per say, but rather a synergy from taking enough feat and skills (I think you need improved unarmed strikes, stunning fist, power attack, sunder, eagle claw attack and a few rank in concentration), but check with your DM if it would stack with improve natural weapon because, altough it's from different source and as different 'flavor', it provide similar benefits. If you can use class variants from Uneathed arcana, Sleeping Tiger way (for monk) will help you get the fead and provide a nice additional benefit. Ok, enough on the long post already, I have more idea if you want.
VampyresThrenody 11-30-07, 10:21 AM	A monk build for killing casters? Oh I would absolutely -love- to see that. Iron heart surge would be a good thing to feat into. As for setting sun manuevers, I am having a ball with them at the moment. Along with shadowhand concealment and extra invisibility from another manuever I'm looking at 5 invis per day + another one per battle. It's great for the first shadow sun ninja ability which blinds all foes around you after a successful hide + attack. The +20 for hide from invis should make that all the sweeter. Imp. Natural attack can be used on monk's unarmed strike?
Tordak 11-30-07, 01:35 PM	Imp. Natural attack can be used on monk's unarmed strike? Yes, because the unarmed strikes feature of the monk allows him to treat his unarmed strikes as 'both as a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon'. The monk built I had in mind (I'll put it for you later on) is not especially design for mage slaying, but monks, because of there good save, evasion class feature and SR at level 13 and additional resistances and immunities, are quite capable at defeating magic users. And the monk does not require a large amount of feat to be efficient. But there are a few feat worth taking if you are going to be a magebane monk which I did not include in my design initially : mage slayer, pierce magical protection and pierce magical concealment (C Arcane, if you look for it you'll see how very well they can serve you). Blind-fighting is also good (and a prereq for pierce magical concealment). And with a belt of monk you could multiclass into (and it's well related and flavored to your situation) an occult slayer (C Warrior), a WitchHunter (Tome of Magic, good against magic and supernatural users), or an initiate of the Draconic mysteries (my built, strikes really hard). So I can put up 2 build, the one I had in mind (a nasty striker) and a magebane monk. There's also a prestige class in Dragon Compedium (if you don't know it's a compilation of some of the stuff in dragon magazine), which make really good monk mage-slayers, I don't remember the name I'll look it up later, and would build better than occult slayer I think.
Tordak 12-01-07, 05:03 PM	Here are the ideas. I don't know how to hide text, so it will be tedious; if people are not interested in a build for a monk, just don't read the post. All you need to do is be a monk until level 15. 15 because you should get a belt of monk, so that you can continu your progression all the way to 20 for unarmed strikes damage, ac and movement. Take the improved natural weapon feat. Also make sure your DM will allow material from the oriental adventure campaing setting book. If your also allowed, take the Unearthed Arcana variant for monk (available on the SRD) sleeping tiger; this will help you with your feat. You'll need the following feat : improved unarmed strike (monk bonus), power attack, improve sunder (sleeping tiger way bonus), fist of iron (OA), ki shout (OA) and Eagle Claw attack (OA and CW). They other feats I'll discuss later cause they depend what you do after level 15. With an additional 4 ranks of bluff, you'll have access to Empty Hand Mastery (also OA, after the feats section) that has the following benefits: your unarmed strikes inflict more damage, as if you were one size category larger. This should stake with improve natural, even if they provide similar benefits, because : - they are from different source; - there is no mention that you cannot stack them; - the reason behind each is different (Empty hand mastery relies on your ability to strikes really hard through years of training and focus on hard strikes (as seen in the feats requirement), improved natural allow you to use your natural weapons better); and I would let them stack as a DM because it requires a big investement of feat. So by the them you hit level 15, your unarmed damage will be : -2d10 for monk level (=20 thanks to monk belt), upgraded to 4d8 with INW, and up to 6d8 with Empty hand mastery. So far, this cost you 5 feats. As a human, you should have 8. Now this is were you need to decide what to do. If you want a striker, take the feat alertness and the required skill (don't remembr exactly) to qualify for Initiate of the Dragon Mysteries (PrC, Draconomicon). When you hit lv 4 of that PrC, your unarmed strikes go up one dice category, to 6d10. And you have a few more ability. This guy is good against anyone. If you want a mage slayer, take weapon focus (any monk weapon) and improved initiative, and you can qualify for Occult Slayer. Not only are your saving throw good, there gonna be even higher with the +3 you get at level 5 of the PrC against spells and spell-likes. Add to that addtionnal mage bane on your weapon (but you mostly use your Unarmed strikes), the permanent benefits of mind blank and spell turning 2/day, and your are going to be the bane of all casters. (Your US will be doing 6d8 damages). Another good mage slayer is the Witch Slayer from tome of magic. No additional feat, you gain the benefits of mettle, which is awesome with your improved evasion, and the capstone ability that allow you to affect a single target with a 'personal' antimagic field (the target can't cast spells or use spell-likes or supernatural) for 1 round as a swift action. Downside is you can do it only once every 5 rounds, but this is still pretty strong. For ability, you want to boost your strengh all you can (if you have access to bracers of defense). Sure wisdom and dex help your AC and powers, but with strong strikes you want to be able to hit often. Save money for a Manual of exercises with a +5 inherent bonus to str, and put all your stat boost in str. You're going to want to have other good stats from the begining, and you can also buy books for your other stats and use appropriate items (periap of wisdom, glove of dex). You can't have belt of giant strengh if you already have belt of monk, which is necessary for you if you stop at level 15. You're going to have to make the painfull choice of periap of wis, amulet of natural or amulet of mighty fists. If it goes epic, Additional Magic Item Space would be a good idea. Any left over feat (1 for occult slayer, 2 for Initiate and 3 for witch slayer) should be invested in the feats mage slayer, pierce magical protection( a favorite), and pierce magical concealment (you'll need blind-fight for this one), all in Complete Arcane. There are other interesting feat, but this makes you a good mage slayer. Versatile unarmed strikes isn't bad (but the initiate class feature grants you something similar already). Freezing the lifeblood (CW) is good if you're going to fight creature not immune to paralysis. Hope this gives you ideas:D
Tordak 12-01-07, 10:44 PM	Also wanted to mention, if you guys are allowed Dragon Shaman, one of you should really be one.
VampyresThrenody 12-02-07, 12:34 PM	I like that monk! Thanks for that. And I'm waiting for the DM to get back from break to see if he'll allow dragon shamans. I have an idea to make a blue dragon shaman using dragonmarks from Eberron and going into Storm Sentry and Elemental Warrior. The idea of an air/electricity using character in a game where no one can cast magic seems useful to me. I mean I'd be a caster...with 30ft range buffs in a group of fighters,rogues and barbarians.
Tordak 12-02-07, 03:07 PM	And healing...