Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Stormbrand 04-26-07, 09:57 PM	My current character is a Paladin, young and idealistic, but with a strength of character and deep wisdom that makes no sense for his age. Zealous and brave, yet with compassion without bounds to those in true need. Inspiring in his nature, recognising the virtue and quality in others, unlocking their potential to be better people and do greater things. Has a marvellous way with people, able to win their trust through passionate sincerity. We have an inclusive style of DM'ing, where we get to say ideas of what we would like worked into the campaign somehow. Virtue is a major theme I am trying to portray with this character. Brave, kind, honest, humble, just, fair, noble, sincere, wholly committed to those in need and thoroughly open in his nature. One event is with the warhorse growing into his bonded mount (constant companion rather than the summoned kind). It was kept by a mercenary who had took over a farmstead for a stay, terrorising the inhabitants. Once the mercenary was killed, the Paladin began looking after the horse (really more a huge cavalry horse than a true warhorse, yet), who had been ill-treated by it's previous owner (harsh bits with spikes, scars from bound legs to keep it from wandering at night, etc). So far, the Paladin is focusing on healing the injuries suffered by the horse from extended neglect. With due humility and grace, more noble deeds to accomplish would interest me. Things I could put forward as suggestions. Plausible situations in which to truly display the knightly virtues. As well as that, some sort of 'Trial of the Spirit' would be interesting - some test to prove himself worthy of character. Ideas for these tests (presumably tests of each virtue/vice) would be great as well as reasons to go face this Trial to begin with. Thank you.
EonOmega 04-28-07, 02:44 AM	Eh, seems decently cool. So... Test of Faith: For something like this, it should be a code-of-conduct breaking thing for the greater good, such as associating with evil willingly in order to stop a major villain, or simply receiving help from someone that you know is evil. Another thing possible to do is to be offered sly tactics to do a job much more easily, such as poisons, or even being able to hire an assassin (who must be evil) to defeat a challenge rating character high above the paladin's level, but the paladin has to make that choice yet again. Choosing to do something that would not be ordinarily done by a paladin is good. Cliche'd options like above work, but my mind isn't working too well with 12/72 hours slept. Must be exhausted.
Westbound 04-28-07, 08:07 AM	I'm working on a short story about the very nature of what a Paladin is all about: Sacrifice. A Paladin who answers the Call gives up his own wants, desires, and sometimes needs for the cause of Good (not necessarily "the Greater Good"). This could very well include romantic companionship if you apply vows of chastity and celebacy to the Paladin's Code of Conduct. Distractions such as these could inhibit a Paladin's quest to vanquish evil. What happens if a Paladin loses his family? What happens if he already had a wife and children, but decided to answer the Call to be a Paladin? And if so, the sacrifice might be too much for one to bear. A deity who calls upon a mortal is asking that mortal to consider a higher obligation greater than most mortals are willing to accept. What if he fails to protect his family? What if he fails to protect his home village? As devestating a loss might be, he's got two choices. He could wallow in grief and despair, or he could continue the fight. Most people might have a crisis of faith at this point. It might have been assumed that if he took up arms for the deity, in so doing, he'd be able to protect those that he loves. Though a deity may understand mortal concerns, they are still petty to him and his cause to rid the universe of evil (or at least prevent it from becoming too powerful). The true test of faith would be, in such a terrible incident, for the deity to tell the Paladin to get up and keep fighting, and say it in a cold manner. If the Paladin refuses, because he's shocked at this cold treatment from a deity he has served faithfully for so long, he has given into his own mortal selfish concerns. A deity in this case would gladly let the poor mortal in his grief, but await his prayers to be called to service again. If the Paladin put aside his angst and despair and continued the quest right then and there, the deity would reward him lavishly; after all, he has proven that he can be reliable, and that he has the character to never quit in spite of his own personal problems. Such a reward, in my opinion, would be in the form of a weapon or armor of divine temper, because a deity would definitely outfit such a mighty warrior knowing that he'll put it to Good use. This would definitely fit into your Virtue theme. The rest of your group should never understand your character's decision if he chose to fight in spite of terrible loss or pain. It should baffle and befuddle them, but should also make him a rock in their eyes; a leader to turn to in times of turmoil. Also, here's another thing about Paladins: Don't ever preach. You're not a priest (unless you want to be), you're a man of action. You know that words are cheap, but actions speak louder. Unless the party commits acts of evil, you're not to chastise them for their own lack of faith, if present. A lot of players don't like Paladins because they apply their own stereotypes in the real world to the Paladin class, and as such it takes time, sometimes a lot of time, to change their minds about it. So you must be the example of Virtue, and why it is desireable to strive for. And don't think that just because you're a Paladin that should automatically make you "leader." You can be bold and assertive, but it's more important to be helpful, and offer constructive suggestions instead of barking orders. You should be a leader in action, not by default, and you always have to earn the respect of those you intend on leading.
Fithero 04-28-07, 08:08 AM	As with each test, you should stand to loose *alot* if you fail, perhaps even loose a bit if you succeed. Charity: Sell everything you own (perhaps go into debt) to pay off the debt of a commoner (that commoner must be in a serious debt if a 5th lvl paladin needs to sell all his gear... but you get the idea) Brave: Hold off or hold the rear of a retreat against an impossible force so that others may escape. Humble: Take combat lessons from an very *very* old halfling warrior (as long as he knows what he is talking about).... not to sure about this one though. Mercy: Use a weapon with the merciful trait and capture all your foes instead of killing them... then convert them all too good (look in BoED for how to do this) This could tick your party off if you do it too often, but redeeming evil souls is considered a pretty damn good act. Try and do this on the LBEG's as often as possible, and if possible try it on the BBEG's. Hope this helps. Peace
Stormbrand 04-28-07, 10:54 PM	Nice ideas. Thanks for suggestions so far. If any more come to mind then please share them. As with each test, you should stand to loose *alot* if you fail, perhaps even loose a bit if you succeed. Charity: Sell everything you own (perhaps go into debt) to pay off the debt of a commoner (that commoner must be in a serious debt if a 5th lvl paladin needs to sell all his gear... but you get the idea) Brave: Hold off or hold the rear of a retreat against an impossible force so that others may escape. Humble: Take combat lessons from an very *very* old halfling warrior (as long as he knows what he is talking about).... not to sure about this one though. Mercy: Use a weapon with the merciful trait and capture all your foes instead of killing them... then convert them all too good (look in BoED for how to do this) This could tick your party off if you do it too often, but redeeming evil souls is considered a pretty damn good act. Try and do this on the LBEG's as often as possible, and if possible try it on the BBEG's. Hope this helps. Peace Thanks for the advice, only a few comments. Some I disagree with how they work, others I would like something more specific if possible. Charity - The personal sacrifice seems pointless there. The character is a noble so could arrange some sort of stipend. Negotiate some way for the commoner to work of the debt. Helping does not need the paladin to bleed himself dry. Brave - Yes, I was thinking on the same lines. A classic by Timespike was standing against a tide of monsters to protect a woman and her child who held no significance to anything other than being innocent. Protecting others against overwhelming odds is certainly up there, any suggestions for these overwhelming odds to make a good story to put forth? Humble - I am not even sure why that would even be a test. All the character would be concerned with is how much the training would keep him away from helping others in need. Mercy - With the current campaign, Redemption is treated as a major storyline, not something to be glossed over with diplomacy checks or a cursed helm. So mass-redemption would simply not be allowed. Besides, one aspect of character development is overcoming that reluctance to kill. I'm working on a short story about the very nature of what a Paladin is all about: Sacrifice. A Paladin who answers the Call gives up his own wants, desires, and sometimes needs for the cause of Good (not necessarily "the Greater Good"). This could very well include romantic companionship if you apply vows of chastity and celebacy to the Paladin's Code of Conduct. Distractions such as these could inhibit a Paladin's quest to vanquish evil. What happens if a Paladin loses his family? What happens if he already had a wife and children, but decided to answer the Call to be a Paladin? And if so, the sacrifice might be too much for one to bear. A deity who calls upon a mortal is asking that mortal to consider a higher obligation greater than most mortals are willing to accept. What if he fails to protect his family? What if he fails to protect his home village? As devestating a loss might be, he's got two choices. He could wallow in grief and despair, or he could continue the fight. Most people might have a crisis of faith at this point. It might have been assumed that if he took up arms for the deity, in so doing, he'd be able to protect those that he loves. Though a deity may understand mortal concerns, they are still petty to him and his cause to rid the universe of evil (or at least prevent it from becoming too powerful). The true test of faith would be, in such a terrible incident, for the deity to tell the Paladin to get up and keep fighting, and say it in a cold manner. If the Paladin refuses, because he's shocked at this cold treatment from a deity he has served faithfully for so long, he has given into his own mortal selfish concerns. A deity in this case would gladly let the poor mortal in his grief, but await his prayers to be called to service again. If the Paladin put aside his angst and despair and continued the quest right then and there, the deity would reward him lavishly; after all, he has proven that he can be reliable, and that he has the character to never quit in spite of his own personal problems. Such a reward, in my opinion, would be in the form of a weapon or armor of divine temper, because a deity would definitely outfit such a mighty warrior knowing that he'll put it to Good use. This would definitely fit into your Virtue theme. The rest of your group should never understand your character's decision if he chose to fight in spite of terrible loss or pain. It should baffle and befuddle them, but should also make him a rock in their eyes; a leader to turn to in times of turmoil. Also, here's another thing about Paladins: Don't ever preach. You're not a priest (unless you want to be), you're a man of action. You know that words are cheap, but actions speak louder. Unless the party commits acts of evil, you're not to chastise them for their own lack of faith, if present. A lot of players don't like Paladins because they apply their own stereotypes in the real world to the Paladin class, and as such it takes time, sometimes a lot of time, to change their minds about it. So you must be the example of Virtue, and why it is desireable to strive for. And don't think that just because you're a Paladin that should automatically make you "leader." You can be bold and assertive, but it's more important to be helpful, and offer constructive suggestions instead of barking orders. You should be a leader in action, not by default, and you always have to earn the respect of those you intend on leading. Very nice. I work with many of the same themes myself. While the character is in a romantic relationship, he has pause due to the fact that he cannot offer the full commitment that he would like to. The character serves as an example and inspiration to others, making constructive suggestions that people respect. The idea of the psychology baffling the others is another aspect I like to play up. Temptations keep getting thrown at the paladin and he keeps rejecting them, much to the confusion of the others. As for family, the storyline intended for them is as future villains. When young, the hero did not realise the wrongs done by his family. On his return (currently in political exile for upsetting a superior), he will discover what his family is really like. So regrettably, that really cool example cannot be used.
Fithero 04-29-07, 12:50 AM	Charity - The personal sacrifice seems pointless there. The character is a noble so could arrange some sort of stipend. Negotiate some way for the commoner to work of the debt. Helping does not need the paladin to bleed himself dry. Yes, but you see it's not a meaningful sacrafice if its easy to overcome. If the paladin can simply snap his fingers and clear the commoners debt without any cost to himself... its not realy a noble of charitable thing to do. It's the differance between bill gates giving someone $100 and a homeless person giving that same person a $100... which person do you think is preforming the greater sacrafice? Brave - Yes, I was thinking on the same lines. A classic by Timespike was standing against a tide of monsters to protect a woman and her child who held no significance to anything other than being innocent. Protecting others against overwhelming odds is certainly up there, any suggestions for these overwhelming odds to make a good story to put forth? This may be more for justice, but perhaps he could have to escort (and defend) a criminal (the worse the better) who is being taken to face a court. A whole town wants the criminal dead (perhaps even several different organisations too) and make constant attempts on his life. The paladin needs to get him to the court house safely to face true justice. Humble - I am not even sure why that would even be a test. All the character would be concerned with is how much the training would keep him away from helping others in need. The paladin is a warrior and as such, knows how to fight and hold his own. Taking combat lessions from a very old and very small individual could be considered a test of his humility, having to have patience and such to deal with his senile ways and finally admit that he does know what he is talking about (said old codger could be an epic lvl fighter) Peace
Stormbrand 04-29-07, 02:13 AM	Story so far. The character has been solo in a PbP since late January. - First came into the city, once there an illusion resembling a beautiful, angelic lady led him to a room near a bakery. Rounding a corner, she had tears running down her face (causing the paladin to chase after her, worried that she was distressed) and rounded a corner, vanishing once out of sight. This led the paladin to knock on the nearest door to investigate. - Inside is a converted storeroom, where he finds a sleeping elf huntress resembling the vision he saw, and a farmer seeking work in the city. Satisfied that the huntress is fine, he speaks with farmer mostly to stay out of the rain. What he discovers is that the farm had been going strangely badly and the man is trying to support his wife. Very quickly, the farmer demonstrates his integrity and is offered work as a guide, since the paladin is a stranger to the city. - Stays the night in the storeroom, before being guided to his distant relatives with whom he is staying. This is where things get amusing. - As it happens, the relative who first welcomes him into the House is one of the House daughters famed for her beauty, who takes an interest in the character's journey to the city. Meanwhile, the guide is given a meal by the servants in the kitchen. - Between gallantry and 18 CHA, said lady falls for the paladin, while being quite startled by his morality and ideas. Eventually, this progresses to an offer from the great beauty, which is refused because the paladin does not wish to take advantage of her, or for her to regret sleeping together too early. However, she does manage to get his first kiss. - Meanwhile, the farmer/guide (an early cohort for when leadership kicks in) is in the kitchen, and encounters another House noble who is uses one of the servants as a mistress. This noble once tried pursuing the woman who ended up marrying the farmer, and bears a grudge about that failure. So begins tormenting the poor chap, safe in the knowledge that he will not fight back. - Eventually this escalates, to the point where a concerned servant sneaks off to fetch the paladin, who comes barreling in to intercept further assaults from the nobleman. Detect Evil says that this man does not radiate evil, he screams evil. - Nobleman demands the right to flog the farmer, paladin invites him to "claim that right in a court of swords." Let me point out that this noble is considered a legendary swordsman (most of that legend is fake, but the paladin does not know that). - At this level of mayhem, the farmer decides to calm things down by offering to be flogged, paladin refuses, and the lady who fell for the paladin is all that stops someone from getting killed. - So the swashbuckler-duellist leaves, spitting in the face of the paladin before going. Paladin does not react (meant to hint at the fact he shows no concern for pride). - Spends the next week training up the farmer to a militia soldier. Now he is a functional footman. During the week, a BLIMP comes into town and parks looking for healers. The paladin rushes in with LoH activated and pushes himself beyond his limit at personal cost. - At the end of the week he visits the cohort's farm to drop off his wages to his wife. There they discover that mercenaries have taken up residence in the town and are bullying the townsfolk into compliance. - Currently, one mercenary is dead and the paladin is making a few subtle preparations before trying to oust dozens of mercenaries. Hopefully that gives a clearer idea of the character.
tubaman527 04-30-07, 11:24 AM	Test of Judgement stolen from Neverwinter Nights - Shadows of Undrentide a paladin is tasked with saving the life of a goblin child in some kind of peril. In the game (she's an NPC), she can't bring herself to save the goblin and fails the test. Her reasoning is that goblins are evil (by Base D&D standards) and not deserving of her help. Even if your character hasn't/won't go through this, consider at least your reaction to a similar situation.....its a great eye opener for those Idealist types.
boggler65 04-30-07, 05:03 PM	Charity/Humility: Perhaps your character meets a well spoken begger on the road. The man is on his way to a nearby city, where he can get a better take. The two converse and the Paladin realizes that this well spoken begger is in fact a leper. Rather than give the man money out of pity your character gives the man money out of sincerity, thanking him for the life lesson that he has been taught. Bravery/Mercy/Faith: Your Paladin meets a man sentenced to be executed in a mere 72 hours. This man claims to be innocent, and to have knowledge of how to gain the evidence necessary to clear his name and obtain a pardon. Rather than work independently to clear the man's name the Paladin offers to take this man's place on death row, leaving the condemned man with the ability to clear his name with the aid of the paladin's allies. Therefore the Paladin will die in 72 hours if his confidence in the man is misplaced.
Stormbrand 04-30-07, 05:15 PM	Here is a list of knightly virtues. Prowess: To seek excellence in all endeavors expected of a knight, martial and otherwise, seeking strength to be used in the service of justice, rather than in personal aggrandizement. Justice: Seek always the path of 'right', unencumbered by bias or personal interest. Recognize that the sword of justice can be a terrible thing, so it must be tempered by humanity and mercy. If the 'right' you see rings agrees with others, and you seek it out without bending to the temptation for expediency, then you will earn renown beyond measure. Loyalty: Be known for unwavering commitment to the people and ideals you choose to live by. There are many places where compromise is expected; loyalty is not amongst them. Defense: The ideal knight was sworn by oath to defend his liege lord and those who depended upon him. Seek always to defend your nation, your family, and those to whom you believe worthy of loyalty. Courage: Being a knight often means choosing the more difficult path, the personally expensive one. Be prepared to make personal sacrifices in service of the precepts and people you value. At the same time, a knight should seek wisdom to see that stupidity and courage are cousins. Courage also means taking the side of truth in all matters, rather than seeking the expedient lie. Seek the truth whenever possible, but remember to temper justice with mercy, or the pure truth can bring grief. Faith: A knight must have faith in his beliefs, for faith roots him and gives hope against the despair that human failings create. Humility: Value first the contributions of others; do not boast of your own accomplishments, let others do this for you. Tell the deeds of others before your own, according them the renown rightfully earned through virtuous deeds. In this way the office of knighthood is well done and glorified, helping not only the gentle spoken of but also all who call themselves knights. Largesse: Be generous in so far as your resources allow; largesse used in this way counters gluttony. It also makes the path of mercy easier to discern when a difficult decision of justice is required. Nobility: Seek great stature of character by holding to the virtues and duties of a knight, realizing that though the ideals cannot be reached, the quality of striving towards them ennobles the spirit, growing the character from dust towards the heavens. Nobility also has the tendency to influence others, offering a compelling example of what can be done in the service of rightness. Franchise: Seek to emulate everything I have spoken of as sincerely as possible, not for the reason of personal gain but because it is right. Do not restrict your exploration to a small world, but seek to infuse every aspect of your life with these qualities. Should you succeed in even a tiny measure then you will be well remembered for your quality and virtue. Prowess will be made clear in a leadership event, rallying trapped and frightened people to repel some large-scale attack. Courage & Defence go together, standing alone against waves of enemies to protect the innocent, holding them at bay regardless of personal danger. My guess is an undead horde in this case. Humility would be coming to the aid of someone who had wronged him, putting aside any resentment or bitterness at the time. Nobility seems to be happening already, so no need to plan an event for it.
boggler65 04-30-07, 06:51 PM	Someone, I believe it was you Storm (not sure though) suggested that your character find a measure of fulfillment of his oath by converting previously "evil" oppenents to the path of good. The standard template for knightly virtue are the Arthurian legends, which frequently depict knights of the round table facing worthy even evil adversaries in single combat, and by demonstrating their fighting worth turning them into allies. So how about this as a thing for your character. Prowess: Defeat a hostile opponent whose actions oppose your code in honorable single combat. Then, by showing your opponent mercy help to bring him to the path of righteousness.
Aethermix 05-01-07, 11:02 PM	The best medicine for a Paladin is to hand him his glory. Have him happen upon a fight and by some mistake, the bad guy gets pushed onto his drawn sword. Better yet have an NPC steal a baby. Said kidnapper (running from the law or whatever) turns a corner and bumps into the Pally. Quick reflex check to have him catch the baby and Boom! as the pursuers round the corner they discover the galant Paladin holding the stolen prince (or other important figure's son/daughter) standing heroically over the prone kidnapper. Hand him his glory, then see how he reacts. Does he try to tell the truth, then get sucked into the publicity, or does he just play along... finding honor was never so easy.