Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Denis_sadowski 04-18-04, 10:02 PM	I had an idea to make a fgt class that used katars (punching daggers) as his main wepon. But what kind of history could i put to influence his choice in weponry, since katars are simple on the weak end of the weponry spectrum IMO. Any help would be greatly apreciated.
Trydan 04-19-04, 09:07 AM	Concealment. A puching dagger is a fairly stealthy weapon. It is easily concealed by long sleeves of sheathed pockets. Perhaps the character is actually a slave (it is illegal for slaves to carry weapons). Perhaps he is of a religious order (that forbids the extroverted display of weapons). Perhaps he is a thief (never a good idea to flash weaponry, when one is trying not to be seen!).
m15a 04-21-04, 12:55 AM	i think there's a certain stylistic attractiveness with a pair of punching daggers, too. hoping not to offend anyone, i'd say that it seems sort of animal-ish in a way. if that fits your vision, perhaps a gladator-type? but i def like the concealment aspect, too. it balances the weakness of the weapon. if you can get it by your dm, i'd try to figure out a way of slipping them up your sleaves, while being able to unsheath them in the normal amount of time. possibly by pulling each out from the opposite sleave, or if you wanna be extra showy, have them spring loaded.
Sarta 04-21-04, 02:34 AM	From a non-mechanics standpoint, but purely real-world sociological perspective, a punching dagger would be most likely to pop up in a culture where weapons are generlly not allowed to the regular citizenry and armor is in use. They are small, easily hidden, and easily made (many prison shanks are variations on punch daggers). They are also ideal for penetrating heavy armor, delivering quite a few pounds per square inch of damage in such a small weapon. D&D has moved past the old charts available in 1st edition where specific weapons had bonuses and penalties against specific armor types. This was done for simplicities sake and I'm glad it was done (they were largely ignored anyway). However, the punch dagger would exemplify a weapon that would receive a bonus against armor such as plate and scale armor. One option for using them in a creative fashion would be for an assassin or order of assassins to use them as a signature weapon. They make ideal assassin weapons with their ease of concealability. In this case, the pinacle of skill would be to kill one's opponent with a single hit to the head (base of skull, under the chin, or to the temple all work well here). Think of it along the same fashion as the thuggee cults of India who's signature weapons, rummels (weighted sashes used as garrotes), were used to kill one's opponent without drawing blood. Sarta
Sarta 04-21-04, 03:05 AM	The above post was more in line for a punch dagger that would fit in the palm of one's hand with a blade poking through the index finger and ring finger of one's hand, such as is commonly seen in modern knife catalogs. The katar on the other hand, is a much larger weapon, even larger than a typical dagger. So, much of the benefit of concealment is gone. Some of them were quite elaborate and had more than one blade paired together like scissors with a device in the grip which allowed the two blades to seperate once they had entered the body of an opponent. One of the original uses ascribed to them was in hunting tigers. From a crunchy rules perspective (and since you are considering creating a class that specializes in them) you may want to consider a class feature that would be similar to arterial strike from the complete warrior to represent a well-aimed use of a multi-bladed katar. They are an interesting weapon for adaptation to D&D since by size they would probably fall into the light weapon category, but by design they wouldn't seem to lend themselves well to the weapon finesse feat since they rely on brute force for most of their effectiveness. Based on their weapon size, they can be statted to do as much damage as a short-sword being that some do have blades that are quite long and fairly wide. Here's some links to pics: Folding katar (http://arms2armor.com/Knives/katar3.htm) Large armor-piercing katar (http://www.butterfields.com/areas/arms/7350A/detail/7350a-1018.htm) Rather recently made katar (http://therionarms.com/sold/ttoy168.html) Sarta