Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Bait the Bard 11-25-03, 03:28 AM	This might be in the wrong forum, but I'll post it here anyway. I am a DM with a group of three players, two of which are not really interested in much roleplaying and one who likes both. We are about to start a new campaign (in FR) and when I told them that I would expect some form of character background, they complained and said "Why can't we just play the game?" So, my problem is how to get them to make a decent character background and to enjoy it and play in style? Appreciate any help - the annoying bard
Yen-Lo-Wang 11-25-03, 04:18 AM	You run into problems like this when there are differences in playing style. One method that I have used (it's a bit heavy handed though) is to give the player that creates a background an advantage. Not a big one because that leads to abuse pretty quick. Something along the lines of his father left him his masterwork sword or a horse. When the other players ask why he got whatever tell them because it's in his (plausibe not min/max; again, don't let them abuse this!) background. Some DMs give one time EXP bonuses for backgrounds. I've never done this but I don't see the harm in a player getting 100 bonus EXP for a good background. As for playing in style...that's alot more tricky. A player can create a background and just go back to "Stabby Stabby Hack Hack". I've found that if you incorporate character's backgrounds into the game (Old enemy shows up, family friend needs help, inheritence etc) players tend to stay interested cause now your playing off something they created. Anyways, hope that helps some.
Trydan 11-25-03, 08:27 AM	Try using active role-playing to force them to think about their character backgrounds. For example:[list=1] Firstly, provide a written hand-out, describing the world setting and a few key points. Ask the players to prepare a background/description/reason for their characters. Tell them it is optional, but it will make life easier for them, if they do. Let them start adventuring, and get NPCs to prompt them to narate their background or story. You could even give them a +2 to Gather Information checks, if they pass on some of their information first! Then step up the pace a bit. Get an NPC to explicitly ask them about their appearance, manners, background, etc. For example... NPC: "Hey Knave, you don't look familiar... where do you come from? I'm not sure we serve your type around here." Finally, get really heavy handed. For example... Town Guard: "Hey! You there! Where did you get that spiked chain from? Hmm... that sounds a pretty weak sort of story... I think you've stolen it. You'll accompany me back to the barracks for questioning." [/list=1]
Daevaron 11-25-03, 10:21 AM	Originally posted by Yen-Lo-Wang You run into problems like this when there are differences in playing style. One method that I have used (it's a bit heavy handed though) is to give the player that creates a background an advantage. Not a big one because that leads to abuse pretty quick. Something along the lines of his father left him his masterwork sword or a horse. When the other players ask why he got whatever tell them because it's in his (plausibe not min/max; again, don't let them abuse this!) background. Some DMs give one time EXP bonuses for backgrounds. I've never done this but I don't see the harm in a player getting 100 bonus EXP for a good background. As for playing in style...that's alot more tricky. A player can create a background and just go back to "Stabby Stabby Hack Hack". I've found that if you incorporate character's backgrounds into the game (Old enemy shows up, family friend needs help, inheritence etc) players tend to stay interested cause now your playing off something they created. Anyways, hope that helps some. Yup, this has always worked well within our group. Give the player some small bonus (experience, gold, items, whatever) if they make a background. The impact of the bonus won't be big and the players will have more incentive to write a background.
TheMightyMcClaw 11-25-03, 06:37 PM	This is only an idea... but do they play many console RPG's? I think the non-RPing style is routed largely in only playing "RPG's" like Diablo and Baldur's Gate, where the idea is to collect as much money as you can and stain your hands with as much blood as you can. I've noticed that the best RP-ers to be fans of console RPG's (Final Fantasy, Chrono, Breath of Fire, and the like) with a decent focus on character. Try getting them into these sorts of games.... recomend some of the 'classics' to them (FFIV, VI, and VII, Chrono Trigger, BOF2, etc.). See if it changes the way they RP.
MarcusAurelius 11-25-03, 08:07 PM	My DM/group came up with a different idea for supporting our back stories. As a part of our backgrounds we are allowed to create low level NPC's (we don't actually roll them up or anything that specific and max level was around 4 or 5). We created an inverse scale for the level of the relation to the NPC's level (ie:really weak connection meant higher level, while a really good connection meant a lower level). The catch was that we had to explain the realtion to that NPC and have it fit within our own back stories. It meant more "hooks" for the DM and fleshed out the character's stories more. ((note though that these NPC's might never actually have anything to do with the story, and once we drew them up they became strictly the property of the DM))
Yen-Lo-Wang 11-25-03, 10:11 PM	Originally posted by MarcusAurelius My DM/group came up with a different idea for supporting our back stories. As a part of our backgrounds we are allowed to create low level NPC's (we don't actually roll them up or anything that specific and max level was around 4 or 5). We created an inverse scale for the level of the relation to the NPC's level (ie:really weak connection meant higher level, while a really good connection meant a lower level). The catch was that we had to explain the realtion to that NPC and have it fit within our own back stories. It meant more "hooks" for the DM and fleshed out the character's stories more. ((note though that these NPC's might never actually have anything to do with the story, and once we drew them up they became strictly the property of the DM)) I use this. A player creates his background and any people specifically named I create and play. It's nice for the players to have a mentor they can ask questions.
JosephKell 11-25-03, 10:32 PM	Awards. First pick of party role is a good one. Choice of game beverages. As long as it doesn't clash with the DM's. Get out of Jail free card. +X to one roll good once. Beware though, non-winning players might become spiteful. Just make sure to explain a "Best" versus "most improved." Also, the best roleplayer isn't the one that turns the tide of battle, and neither is it the player that cracks a joke. It is the one that stays in character and shows a lot of dedication.
ksu_bond 11-26-03, 01:03 AM	The last campaign I was a PC in, I created a Moon Elf Ranger and before we started playing we needing to provide a history of or character...minimum of one page. Now it wasn't exactly required, however, the DM made it perfectly clear that those who turned in a history would be "rewarded". To keep this short...shortly after I turned in my characters history the DM provided my character with the Education, Gift of Tongues, and Cosmopolitan (Spellcraft) for "free". He also gave my character a very narrow version of first level wizard (I could summon a familiar but it didn't provide Alertness, I got the spells as well but only 3 0-level and 'Dictation' for my 1-level). Plus everyone who turned in a history (which was everyone, some were better than others of course) recieved the XP necessary for first level, so I also got Ranger 1. Now this may seem like a lot on the surface, and in some circumstances it certainly is, however, it is mostly in heavy role-playing situations that they proved to be of the most use.
Bait the Bard 11-26-03, 02:04 AM	All very sound advice. Thak you. However, the players themselves are a bit young, and not real good at writing up stories or thinking of intricate backgrounds. I think that a slight reward might do the trick, as they are more focused on power gaming than roleplaying. So, can anybody suggest what I can do to keep them playing in style and how can I encourage them t roleplay? - the annoying bard
Dragan_Timeripper 11-27-03, 12:26 AM	Hello all, Here's what I do. I'm a veteran GM/DM for some time, and I start people off at first level always when the campaign begins. I award them between 1-5 percent extra XP per session/adventure, and an additional 5% if they play their race's most favored class (something to offset the rather harsh 20% penalty for multiclassing outside of the favored class, as well as making the Arcane Schooling feat better). In addition, I give the characters a 450 XP bonus for a one-page, single-spaced 10-point font character background. I also give them a bonus 450 XP for a painted miniature adequately representing what they possess (ie a bard with a lute should have a lute depicted on their character, or a fighter with a greatsword should have a greatsword on their character). In this manner, they can almost attain 2nd level at the very start. This technique seems to work quite well, except in one-shot and convention games. I'm reknown for writing three-page backgrounds for my character, and like to see some effort put into the characters in my campaign. Hope this helps you out. Happy gaming.
thegentlemanclonetrooper 11-27-03, 09:15 AM	when dealing with young players there is one golden rule:Keep it simple here are three things that might help. !)Have them pick a deity for their character to venerate.Ask them why they picked that diety.Maybe they will say that they picked Helm,becuase they thought he looked cool in his F&P entry.Go with that.Maybe helm's avatar appeared to them when they were young and told them to become a fighter or whatever class they are. If they picked the God for power gaming purposes find it which attribute they liked and help them create a story around how they came to focus on the Law Domain,,etc. 2)Have them develop a battlecry or catchphrase. I found that young gamers love battle cries. I had a Norse campaign and a 10 year old member of our group venerated Thor.I helped him create the battlecry:"By Thor's Hand" everytime he engaged in combat he would shout the battle cry. He went from my character rolls the dice and attacks to Wolfgarn shouts "By Thor's hand" and attacks the filthy gnolls. 3) Penalize them for metagame thinking.When they treat their characters like game peices and the setting as rules to be manipulated for their advantage gig them on it.If they ask the noble what level he is have him look at them like they are crazy.Or if you find they memorized the monsters manual and act on info their characters cannot possibly have change things up.Maybe a troll that can regenerate acid and fire damage but cannot regenerate cold damage.Or a kobold that has 20 strength. Hope that hels GCT
Bait the Bard 12-02-03, 01:42 AM	Please, I need more help. -the annoying bard PS - :bump: :D
Bait the Bard 12-02-03, 01:43 AM	Arrrgh, the doublepost monster has returned
Jeriel 12-02-03, 01:56 AM	I've Dm'ed a few times and I allways found that RPing jumps up when you place charicters that they know are evil/shifty in plain view, but don't make it exceedingly obvious what they are up to. (I.M.H.O. a ring of non-dectection works wonders) For example I had a Hebi-no-onna in one of my OA games and she mostly just calmly hung around town. She left no obvious clues about being up to anything, because at the time, she wasn't. Then, as the charicters begain to go along with the quest I had previously planned, I led them around with her, leaveing small hints, and false leads. They talked to her, and those she talked to, and of course had to acctually think of what thier charicter would ask X NPC. They hated her, alot, but were allways struck with indecisiveness when she was around. This led to conversation, which after a reminder to be in charicter from me, led to a ton of development.
Trydan 12-02-03, 02:28 AM	If the players are young, then the aspect of "attention" may be a good motivator. I.e. if they receive attention, then enjoy themselves. So... the trick is to then make their "character background" an attention-seeking machine. Use them heavily to grant plot-lines, story hooks, make NPCs always favour those characters (NPC: "Ooo... I've heard of you!"). You can even make it so that combat boni also flow on from the characters rich history. (NPC: "These are 'orphan arrows''").