Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Mr.Waesel 03-24-04, 05:53 AM	In an upcoming game, I plane to be a human swashbuckler /paladin /sacred fist /shiba protector /cleric /fighter /monk /wizard /arcane duelist And I need a background. Can anyone help me figure out how this character got to be the way he is? Thanks :)
Mr. VanderMeer 03-24-04, 06:02 AM	Multiple Personalities Syndrome perhaps? Is this some very powerful min/max build? If so, then the personality of the character could have something to do with a craving for power and perfection. Or else maybe he is very chaotic and can't decide on waht he wants to be, so he tries out everything.
Twilly 03-24-04, 08:52 AM	:whatsthis Sorry, but I think you should give us more then just a huge pile of classes that do not seem to relate to each other in any way. But otherwise Multipe Personalties Syndrome seems to be your best option.
Mr. VanderMeer 03-24-04, 09:29 AM	We're just curious what is behind this.
Twilly 03-24-04, 09:40 AM	Is a Shiba Protector an existing prestige class? I have never heard of it. The first thing that came to mind was that catfood called sheeba, but I guess only cats want to protect that.
Mr.Waesel 03-24-04, 10:11 AM	It's from Oriental Adventures. @Aranamarunda: If you have nothing nice to say...:rolleyes:
Lord of the Pebble 03-24-04, 10:34 AM	"a human swashbuckler /paladin /sacred fist /shiba protector /cleric /fighter /monk /wizard /arcane duelist"? Just saw one yesterday in my shop. Needed his next bag of holding!
Aranamarunda 03-24-04, 10:37 AM	@Lord of the Pebble: LOL indeed. That is the only thing that makes sense
Mr.Waesel 03-24-04, 10:54 AM	Lo and behold, the netherlands empty to come ragging on my thread...:rolleyes: EDIT: And one of them registered just for this thread. I feel special.
Aranamarunda 03-24-04, 10:56 AM	Two in Breda, dear mister Weasel ;)
The_Yellow_Dart_Swinger 03-24-04, 07:09 PM	First to Aranamarunda: Just because you multi-class doesn't automaticly mean your a munchkin or powergaming. That said. Now to Mr.Waesel: First off it would be helpful to tell us why you put together some of these strange seemingly non-connected classes together. Also what level is your character? I'd have to agree that MPD (Multiple Personality Disorder) would be the best way to go. Some of your classes have no relationship in common. Why take fighter when you have paladin, why take cleric if you got paladin. Really what would be helpful is to describe the setting that your playing. But seriously consider cutting back to only three classes...
TheMightyMcClaw 03-24-04, 09:02 PM	Hey man, multiclassing is where its at. At least for those of us who don't like being slotted into one of a handful of mechanical archetypes. One of my favorite characters I've ever DMed for was a psion/ninja/shadow scout/shapeshifter. Worked out perfectly for what the PC wanted to play: a giant shape-shifting carp. However, I think ten classes is a wee bit much; I'm amazed that you can build anything out of those while at any reasonable level. If you'd post you're build, I'd rather like to see it. I find the key with playing a multi-class character is not to think about each class as one element of the characters story that needs to be explained away - rather, I think about the character as a whole, and from what abilities that character would have, I start in on a build. For example, I played an Iria-style bounty hunter who was monk/rogue/pyswar. I wanted her to focus on unarmed combat - thus monk was nigh-essential. I wanted her to be an acrobat (more particularly, a jackie chan-style "Smacrobat") so jump, tumble, balance, and climb were needed. I also wanted her to be stealthy, so I added on hide and move silently. This all required a large number of skill points (and a high int score), so I chose rogue; the psywar fit fore the class skills, as well as abilities like Metaphysical Body, Inertial Armor, and Mental Leap. It was intricate, but that build fit the character much better than just monk or just rogue or just psywar would've. It might help if you posted your general character concept along with your class selection. I disagree with Dart Swinger; while some classes may seem unrelated, it's usually the result of just being very diversified (think of how many classes ol' Doc Savage must've had, for example). It looks like your character is based around light combat (unarmed and unarmored), augmented by minor spellcasting and magical abilities. He also has some significant religious/morallistic background - it'd help if you could say of what diety. A warrior who trains his body, mind and spirit to strike down the enemies of Heironeous would be different from a hermit contemplative who seeks harmony in the forces of magic.... though both ideas could probably work without too many snags. I do agree that some of the classes could probably go - no one really NEEDS levels of fighter, unless it's for some feat chain. I see how some are needed to branch into others (wizard and arcane duelist), but you might want to cut back to oh, say, eight classes. ^_^
Mr.Waesel 03-25-04, 05:59 AM	Originally posted by The_Yellow_Dart_Swinger Now to Mr.Waesel: First off it would be helpful to tell us why you put together some of these strange seemingly non-connected classes together. Also what level is your character? swashbuckler for the int to hit and damage paladin for the cha to saves sacred fist for the wis to hit and damage shiba protector for the wis to hit and damage cleric so I can qualify for divine might and peic divine might, giving me my cha *3 to hit and damage fighter so I can take all those feats I need to qualify for shiba protector monk for flavor. I'm an unarmed fighter, after all ;) wizard so I can qualify for arcande duelist arcane duelist for the cha to AC and the reverse power attack. When all is said and done I should have 8 stats to hit and damage. (wisdom from shiba, wisdom from sacred fist, int from swashbuckler, int from combat insight, cha from divine might, cha*2 from epic divine might, dex from weapon finesse (houserule)) And level? I have 30 to play around with, so I'll have some left over :) However, this is not the thread to discuss the build, so please don't post stuff like "that is a stupid houserule, my DM would never allow that."
Twilly 03-25-04, 06:17 AM	To be honest, this kind of character builds make me sick. The classes are just chosen for uber uberness with no element of roleplaying in mind. The stats appear so much more important than his personality or background. Only monk is for flavor! Do you really need a background? Or is your background more like a piece of text that you will forget about as soon as possible? If you wanna get into character you might start with giving your collection of stats and classes a name. Determine if it is a male or a female. How does he/she look? Who is his/her deity? ............
Kolo 03-25-04, 11:33 AM	Originally posted by Mr.Waesel swashbuckler for the int to hit and damage paladin for the cha to saves sacred fist for the wis to hit and damage shiba protector for the wis to hit and damage cleric so I can qualify for divine might and peic divine might, giving me my cha *3 to hit and damage fighter so I can take all those feats I need to qualify for shiba protector monk for flavor. I'm an unarmed fighter, after all ;) wizard so I can qualify for arcande duelist arcane duelist for the cha to AC and the reverse power attack. When all is said and done I should have 8 stats to hit and damage. (wisdom from shiba, wisdom from sacred fist, int from swashbuckler, int from combat insight, cha from divine might, cha*2 from epic divine might, dex from weapon finesse (houserule)) And level? I have 30 to play around with, so I'll have some left over :) However, this is not the thread to discuss the build, so please don't post stuff like "that is a stupid houserule, my DM would never allow that." I'm pretty sure you can only take each stat once for extra damage, i.e. you can't put your wisdom twice to every damage roll, only once. I think it falls under the rule that similar effects only apply once, and I'd count these as being the same unless they're of a different kind (one is Supernatural, the other is exceptional, to post an example.) That said, you can drop fighter/shiba protector since the bonuses most likely won't stack. Now you're a bit more focused, being a holy unarmed fighter who also uses magic. Let's narrow it down some more, Hm? ;) I'd personally tell you to drop the Swashbuckler/Arcane duelist combo, and keep only the swashbucler. Your concept only allows for one of their abilities each, which makes the rest of the classes useless to the build and pointless for your character to take. use swashbuckler to qualify for Duelist instead of Shiba protector, and thus gain the Int bonus in melee with less work. That said, I'd also drop wizard if you only want arcane strike and take sorcerer so that you can use it more often per day and maybe get a useful spell or two, like Expeditious Retreat, Shield and Jump. Besides, it's a good use for Charisma now that this stat seems out of the build for melee. So now we have a monk/paladin/swashbuckler/sorcerer/cleric/sacred fist/duelist, which though not as uber as your own build is no less powerful in its own right. Now we have a holy warrior who uses all his skill to boost his prowess in unarmed combat, be it magic or otherwise. Slick concept, though very class intensive (and some would say munchkiny). So now you have; Wis to attack, damage and AC Int to attack, damage and AC (I assume you have a houserule for this) Cha to saves and bonus spells for Arcane Strike Cha*2 from epic divine might (I'd only allow one, since they're so similar) And, since you have a houserule there, DEX to attack an AC. Slightly fever uber-munchkined bonuses, but far fever classes (and slightly more legal to boot). If you're feeling frisky, you can also get Kensai levels and enchant your fists to your heart's desire. AS for background... well, So far he's a holy warrior who does everything in his power to boost his unarmed attacks. Work from that base onwards, I'm sure you'll think of something. (Maybe he dislikes using weapons or something?) EDIT; and for you nay-sayers out there; I'd never ever build a character like this for myself except as a thought exercise, and I say that if people want to play like this (and I do see their point)then let them. I like roleplaying as much as the next guy, but it's also fun once in a while to really flaunt your power. :D
Mr.Waesel 03-25-04, 03:03 PM	I'd like to point out that shiba protector grants a namless bonus, while sacred fist adds an enhancement bonus. EDIT: Originally posted by Kolo Cha*2 from epic divine might (I'd only allow one, since they're so similar) Divine might and epic divine might stack. It says so in the description of epic divine might. (And I don't understand why you want me to drop arcane duelist :confused: ) Anyway, thanks for the advice! That might work :) Anyone else?
Kolo 03-25-04, 03:19 PM	Originally posted by Mr.Waesel I'd like to point out that shiba protector grants a namless bonus, while sacred fist adds an enhancement bonus. EDIT: Divine might and epic divine might stack. It says so in the description of epic divine might. (And I don't understand why you want me to drop arcane duelist :confused: ) Anyway, thanks for the advice! That might work :) Anyone else? Ah, the bonuses do stack then. And the Divine might thing stacks, so that's fine too. In that case, go with Shiba protector. Arcane duelist... what else are you gaining that could be useful to the build? IIRC, it's at least 3 or 4 levels before you can add the Cha to AC. It seems kinda pointless to take wasted levels like that, especially when you can take levels of Kensai, Cleric and Sacred Fist, all of which are IMO far more useful. And I still recommend the sorcerer over the Wizard for this one, though it depends. If you want to level your arcane casting ability a lot, the wizard might be better.
Mr.Waesel 03-25-04, 03:35 PM	Maybe, but that's not the point of this thread :)
Centurion_stalker 03-26-04, 12:40 AM	swashbuckler for the int to hit and damage paladin for the cha to saves sacred fist for the wis to hit and damage shiba protector for the wis to hit and damage cleric so I can qualify for divine might and peic divine might, giving me my cha *3 to hit and damage fighter so I can take all those feats I need to qualify for shiba protector monk for flavor. I'm an unarmed fighter, after all wizard so I can qualify for arcande duelist arcane duelist for the cha to AC and the reverse power attack. First of all, I'd take out the arcane duelist, because your spending wayy too much time in a class that not only takes you away from the purpose of the build but also from the role playing potential. Even wizard isn't necessary (except for scrolls of enlarge person) As Kolo said, just pick up the rest of the levels in kensai. So here's my quick background for you. Born as the pampered fifth son of a king, who didn't have any rights to the succession, your character picked up adventuring and swordfighting as a trade, however on the way, however on one of the adventures he went on, he fell in with a church of (insert name of deity), and for the sake of novelty joined the church and took up the title of the church knight (pally levels), however one of his close compatriots in the church, a priest who is a pugilist as a hobby, so keeping in touch with his new found shtick as a church knight, he decided to try his hand at boxing while defending his church (yeah its a little far-fetched, but I'm at least trying.) THis is where it becomes interesting. YOur character's lavish lifestyles and overexpenditure wasn't exactly what the church wanted from one of their members, and unfortunately you were kicked out. Not taking rejection well -- Come on, your a prince, nobody can reject you (that's what your character's train of thought should be at that moment) -- he goes through a number of stages, first outrage, which basically means he goes and starts adventuring once again, however a few months into his adventuring he starts thinking straight, and suddenly realizes that his haughty personality and his demeanor weren't all that appealing, especially to the values a church might hold. So now begins the growth process. His personality starts to mellow out at about this point, and he starts actually doing good deeds and helping out his fellow man, he still has some of his old personality, but he's learning now. A few years down the line he takes refuge in a forest during a freak thunderstorm, and the friendly but pacifist forest tribe takes you in, after you are found unconscious. Staying here to recuperate from a cold, you gain an affinity and a liking to the climate and the atmosphere of the tribe, and you decide to stay on. But there is trouble in the neighborhood it seems. A band of orcs has been harrassing the tribe for a couple of years taking away young girls and young boys for the slave trade. Angered that these people are being exploited in this way, and not to mention the fact that your kinda bored, you head out of the village at night and go hunt down the orcs, after a very easy battle (after all you are a seasoned fighter), you defeat the orcs and bring back a few of the remaining kids who haven't been sold of to slavery. The tribal chief is amazed at your act of generosity and instantly adopts you as his surrogate son, seeing that he's nearing his old age and he hasn't had any children yet (lucky you). Honored by this, and also somewhat intoxicated by the strange brew they serve at one of the late night tribal "raves", you promise your new father, that you'll protect the tribe forever, and also to take on the duties of chief after he dies, which requires you to take on the role as a priest of (insert deity name). So you stay on for many years and protect the tribe, and along the way you hone your fighting skills to supernatural levels, where your hands are amazing weapons that do magical damage (kensai). ~~ And, now I do declare this to be the worst story I've made for a character. I don't blame it on the character, but on myself, because I just made this up on the spot. So, I'm kinda sorry if I took liberties with the character. I assumed the character's a male and also human because of the pre-reqs for shiba protector. I also changed the whole idea of the phoenix clan to a tribal society. Now if you are playing in OA, the tribal setting can easily be changed to say another city where the phoenix clan flourishes. Or if your playing FRCS, use the chults as the tribal society. Aside from this, I couldn't figure where I could put in say wizard or arcane duelist, so I took the liberty, to just tweak your character a bit and make him a kensai instead. Of course, if you are still hell-bent on becoming an arcane duelist, you can build it off the above story line by just striking out the kensai part, and figuring something out. ALso, if I got the order of your classes wrong, its not my fault, because you just provided the classes your going to take, and no particular build. Now I must go to sleep. goodnight C_S edit: removing some unwanted text. :)
Kolo 03-26-04, 08:47 AM	Originally posted by Aranamarunda DON'T HELP HIM! IGNORE HIM! Oh, let him have his fun. I multiclass all the time myself, though very rarely into more than 3 classes, if that. Your earlier argument that a monk's philosophy doesn't mic with a cleric's ideology also holds no water. Monks and clerics can have very compatible portfolios. Just look at Ilmater in FRCS. Now, I'm not encouraging rampant mechanics classing, but doing a little of it can really define a character with a set of rare and even unique skills no RP is ever going to make up for- it only adds to the experience. And, as I said, sometimes you just wanna throw your weight around.:D
Aranamarunda 03-26-04, 11:07 AM	Okay, well, just fooling around really :) I quite like the works of Mr Waesel! :D
Mr.Waesel 03-27-04, 03:41 PM	Centurion_stalker: Thanks! That's why I came to this forum :bow: Aranamarunda: :uh-huh: and :blush:
Arknight 04-23-04, 02:46 AM	Well, I must say I disagree with the fact that is really a min-maxed character.... for one thing, with all of the shuffling back and forth between so many classes, by 20th level would have what, a 6 BAB maybe? so maybe with bonuses will have a +20/+15 attack at 20th level? TC
Sisyfos 04-23-04, 06:30 AM	The best idea with this kind of a build is to group the classes and PrCs into as few RP aspects as possible. In this case I managed to do with 3 groups, with the fighter being a bit hard to place. Group 1: Paladin+monk+cleric+sacred fist - This is the holy unarmed warrior group. Pick a deity for this character, it would need to be a deity which is lawful good and advocates unarmed combat. Your character is a devout follower of that deity and all these classes have RP aspects, which can be grouped under this one umbrella. Group 2: Swashbuckler+fighter+wizard+arcane duelist - This is the flashy aspect of the character. Very much like the three musketeers this character likes the high flying life in the big cities and courts. He likes wooing women and duelling (unarmed). He can challenge a person to a duel and walk into the field without a single weapon, still coming up victorious. You need to roleplay this aspect carefully, otherwise you end up breaking your paladin’s code. Of the three musketeers Athos is perhaps the best example, even if I’d be tempted to go more with holy liberator CG build and make an Aramis type of character out of this. It would fit better RP wise and the mechanics would not chage that much. Group 3: Shiba protector - Now this is tricky. Shiba protector means that you come from a certain clan and work to protect their interests. This character would stay in courts of that clan or work as a diplomat for them. A level 30 bodyguard is really a pretty tough one… who is your charge? How does he come to play. All in all the classes you have taken are extreme and th real problems come from combining 1) paladin with arcane duelist and 2) combining shiba protector with paladin and cleric. All in all this character can be played as a holy unarmed warrior who fancies high life and does get into duels occasionally (just make sure the cause is good). Sisyfos PS. I am minmaxer, but I like simple eloquent builds... I think that all the classes you cram into this build do make you worse for it, but it is your game. Play it any way you want. At least with the concept I presented you will have a somewhat playable personality for this character.
Aranamarunda 04-23-04, 07:15 AM	This Thread sickens me. Horrably min/maxed characters such as this have helped to destory the idea of roleplaying in dnd, one of the few things that set it apart from crapy nentendo games and make this game into just another powergrab. In both of my current campains **** like this has become to out of control I have been vurtually forced out of combat, as the player with a x/x/x/x/x/x/x/x/x/x character with 5d20+63+6d6+31+7 damage with his sword and 1d20+51+21 damage pushs though the group to hit the demon and slay it in one hit. You have completely defiled the idea of roleplaying and should be baned from roleplaying boards forever more!. That said I do brose the character optemization aka min/max boards sometimes, although I can honestly say I have never used one of the builds I found there. I just occasionally find insperation there for my next character. I will not help with this obsene character and it is my wish no one else does. Hump LOL:D ;) :D :)
Elzaban the Ethereal 04-25-04, 11:34 AM	As a youth, this character grew up trained in a monestary of Ilmatar, where he learned how to use his body as a weapon. Having surpassed his fellow students, he began focusing on religious theory, and began recieving power from his god. However, his studies only had a small chance to start before war came to the surrounding country side. He signed on as a volunteer cheif for a small holy defense group, after hearing a call from Ilmatar telling him that study was not his way, and that he should become a defender of justice and all things good. After the war ended, most of his group had been killed, and those who hadn't disbanded. He wound up in a local city where he decided to settle down in. With his holy fighting behind him, he joined up with the local city guard, and trained at their barracks. On patrol in the city, he discovered the happenings of illegal dueling. He was detested by the lack of warrior's honor in these so called duelists, and so he started up an official sanctioned duelists guild, after presenting his idea to the constable. One of the deulists he had befriended had gone out of the buisness, and volunteered to run the organization for him. This allowed him to get into the fights, and he became the champion duelist for a while. Soon, however, he found himself in battle with an elven mage. Overconfident in his ability, he was beaten by the mage. Luckily, the wizard had a sense of honor, and saw great things in the man. The mage offered apprenticeship, and a chance to see how magic can improve ones abilities. The mage trained him for several years, first in simple magics, and then in how to apply them to his deuling. Eventually, he managed to beat the mage, and his apprenticeship was declared completed. At about this time, he heard the call of Ilmatar for the first time in several years, and ran off to his former monestary. He found that the leaders were preparing a trek into the dark wildlands to stop a potential invasion. He swore to them that he would protect and guide the monestary in their absence, and so they left. Soon he became a leader, protector and ambassador to the people of the monestary, and remained in that position for several years until the return of but one priest. The priest was in good enough condition to take back control, and the invasion had been averted. His call from Ilmatar seen through, he left the monastary again, ready to go wherever his treks may take him, confident in his ability to overcome any problem. How was that for a backstory? Expand as you see fit.
Mr.Waesel 04-26-04, 06:48 AM	Nice, Elzaban! :) As for the rest of you: If all you can do is come here to tell me I'm a "munchkin" or a "troll", then don't. I am really looking for a backstory, not for people pointing fingers, and I don't want this thread closed. Thanks.
Sisyfos 04-26-04, 08:32 AM	Originally posted by Mr.Waesel As for the rest of you: If all you can do is come here to tell me I'm a "munchkin" or a "troll", then don't. I am really looking for a backstory, not for people pointing fingers, and I don't want this thread closed. Thanks. Ah, so not a troll. I came to that conclusion as you only commented on the non-constructive answers, but had nothing to say to my rather long attempt to group those classes and PrCs into managable 3 groups where the character's personality could be drawn from. Sisyfos
Saeryk 05-25-04, 05:39 PM	You may be serious in your attempt to fit these characters together, but if you were honest with yourself, why would you want 30 levels to begin a game? I've played an elven samurai for the last few months, at level 15, and I can tell you that I would be more confident of myself than this half-created monstrosity. Why are you attempting to bring these disparate classes together in the first place. Granted they work together in some ways, but I suggest you read any number of the help files out on the boards. Ones I suggest are Tryden's and Galahad's, the names of which I cannot remember. The only way to help a munchkin is to make them understand that numbers are not the only thing that matters... Might he be a troll, with a green face only a mother could love, or is he merely trolling for people to flame him, so that he can indulge his love of flaming them for attacking him? Maybe he is merely a devil of such low rank that he is forced to become a munchkin, the lowest of the low in any roleplaying forum...
Aranamarunda 06-03-04, 09:50 AM	What the... they deleted some of my posts! No more innocent fun on WOTC. They are getting more prickly with the day :( Well... Dear WOTC, if that is the way it will be, then I will not joke on this forum anymore and keep myself in the strict guidens that you implement on us, poor gamers. @ Weasel: Sigh... it's a nice day for... seriousness...
Chasmodai 06-04-04, 04:15 AM	A few corrections: Swashbuckler does not add Int to attack. The 3rd level ability you're talking about, Insightful Strike, only adds Int to damage. Next, Shiba Protector. This is a Rokugan-specific PrC. Are you playing in Rokugan? If you are, then lose the Paladin and Cleric. There are no such things in Rokugan. If you're not playing Rokugan, then lose Shiba Protector. The Phoenix Clan, Isawa and Shiba don't exist outside of Rokugan. I would suggest losing Paladin and Cleric and Monk and get 5 levels of Shaman instead. You still get Turn Undead and Divine Grace (called Spirit's Favor - level 5 Shaman ability). You still keep Improved Unarmed Strike, and get a bonus feat at level 4. Monk unarmd damage and Sacred Fist unarmed damage don't stack anyway, so it's pretty damn useless to take monk. (Unless its only for the Wis mod to AC, which I suspect it is). I'm assuming you're playing 3.0, cos Complete Divine removed Sacred Fist's No Shadow Blows (no more Wis mod to attack and damage). I'd like to point out that shiba protector grants a namless bonus, while sacred fist adds an enhancement bonus. Untrue. Sacred Fist's bonus is unnamed as well - it is only considered to be an enhancement bonus for bypassing DR. And it stacks with Puissant Fists, so a level 8 Sacred Fist with 28 Wis has +12 fists where DR is concerned. As for the Cha Mod to AC - I suggest Mystic Wanderer instead. Much easier to qualify for, without the hassle of having to be an arcane caster. And to fit in with the Swashbuckler aspect of the character, Bladedancer isn't a bad class - Acrobatics, Enchanted Blade, Leap of the Clouds... fun. And to be more Oriental, remove fighter and take Samurai instead. Ancestral Daisho is dependant on character level, not class level. Now for the backstory (assuming you begin in Rokugan): You were born a Samurai (Fighter/Samurai levels. 4 at most) in the Shiba family of the Phoenix Clan. You split your training between the martial aspects of the Shiba, as well as the more spiritual leanings of the Phoenix (Monk/Shaman level. 3 each). Once you became of age, and the clan elders found you worthy, you were raised to the status of yojimbo (bodyguard) and tasked to guard an Isawa priest. (Shiba Protector levels). Besides protecting him, you also leanrt under him. This Isawa was quick to teach and you were quick to learn. There was little you couldn't understand, and you weren't shy to admit it when you found something that you didn't. (Continue with Shaman levels till 5. Begin Sacred Fist). Then one day, you decided that being a simple yojimbo wasn't enough for you - you hungered for knowledge and enlightenment. Begging your leave of the clan elders, you left the lands of the Shiba and Rokugan (ending up whereverit is your game is beginning). You traveled and met with strange companions, with people who taught you how to carouse and enjoy yourself in ways you never thought possible (Mystic Wanderer/Swashbuckler/Bladedancer levels. As many as you wish). Currently you travel through the known world, studying the ways of the land and of the different people, learning of knew religions, gods and beliefs, of traditions, cultures and social mores. You get into trouble often, for your eagerness to debate on philosopy. but you get out of it as simply, through your levelheadedness and friendliness (pump points into Diplomacy, please). And when you find yourself facing someone who thinks more with his biceps/swordarm than his head, you accept the ensuing duel, and are ever the teacher, defeating your opponent with the greatest of ease, yet without a trace of arrogance or condescendence. That's what I can get in a half hour of speed-thinking and skimming through previous posts. I hope it helps. P.S. The Mysticism domain (3.0 version anyways), gives you Cha to saves as well.