Post/Author/DateTime	Post
EscherEnigma 12-17-06, 07:33 PM	Hello all. The situation is this: My character decided that the possible downfalls of using a Deck of Many things was out weighed by the possible gains, so he drew three cards. And drew the alignment change card and went from LN to CE. Now... I can dodge the question of just how he sticks with the party for a little while, but eventually I'm going to have to recnocile why a suddenly CE wizard is hanging out with a bunch of goodly brutes. About the only thing I can think of is that as a highly intelligent wizard he knows that his best path to power is to adventure, and hey, look at this, a bunch of dim-witted chumps who don't mind him sitting in the back row lobbing dangerous spells at them. Well, not at them, about five feet to the left of them, but hey, misfires happen. And while I would normally accept just turning him into an NPC and moving on from there, some of the other results from the Deck means that the other characters are going to want his arcane help. Maybe he goes mercenary on them and starts demanding a larger share of treasure for his services? I think basically I need to think of a CE personality that would still allow him to play well with the group, while acknowleding his mental might. I'm thinking power-hungry (well, more so then is required to be a mage) with blatant disregard for the wellfare of others aside from those he personally cares about. He wants to continue to adventure to get more power so that he can do as he pleases, but now that he is no longer a hard working wizard, he doesn't feel like investing in the time to gather a group of like-minded individuals. Especially since like-minded individuals would probably shiv him in a corner. Anyone else have good ideas of how I can make this work without becomming a nuissance at the table?
theotherdraxen 12-18-06, 06:42 PM	Good and evil, by their very defintion, are not supposed to mix. You can mix Lawful and Chaotic, but not Good and Evil. I'd suggest talking to your DM, seeing as you're on the enemy team as of the moment. Of course, this is coming from a LG zealot...
Nightbluejh 12-19-06, 02:19 PM	I think this is a great RP chance for you and could be a wonderful fun filled experiance. First off, just because your CE doesn't mean you'de up and leave the party. Does the party even know that your alignment has changed? Unless they use a detection spell or have a paladin in the group or whatever they don't. A CE charecter may wish to stay with his group for a number of reaasons, just because he's CE doesn't mean that he doesn't want or need friends, for example. Or maybe he has his own reasons for staying with the party. Perhaps they have something he wants or looking for something he wants, or any number of other reasons. Anyway, I certainly don't think you sshould even think about turning him into an NPC jsut because he turned CE. BTW, he can always change his own alignment by doing good things for people or FR.
Eridrau 12-19-06, 06:20 PM	Chaotic evil characters care very very little about anything that does not immediately benefit them. However, a stated in the Book of Vile Darkness, evil characters can in fact have friends. Take for instance this old story: Two incredibly powerful evil despots (A cleric and a wizard, we'll say lv 18 each) both have decided they want to rule the world. By 'logic' they are both a threat to each other and should scheme to kill one another. But... they're childhood friends. They have an agreement that they'll both rule the world together. (One of them likes it hot, he gets the equator, etc.) Now, most PCs would try and woo one of them, playing them against the other, since that's what makes the most 'sense' for their alignments. Remember, the Alignments are generally outlooks, and how you handle a situation. An CE person might be glad to torture someone, doesn't mind murder, and sees nothing wrong with rape. They are all relatively enjoyable to him, and they're faster at accomplishing their goals. However, this does not change your allegiances. You're still friends with your compatriots (Or allies, whatever), your view of the world has simply shifted. You said he saw that the risk of using the deck outweighed the punishment. So... make him a gambler now. He'll bet on everything he can, and he doesn't care if he's betting someone else's life, he just lives for the thrill of the win. The rush of a narrow victory, and the wild adrenaline surge of brushing your lips against death, only to snap back at the last second with a mocking sneer. Give him an obsession with burning things. Anything. People and livestock included. There's lots of ways, really Worst comes to worst, find the most compassionate, merciful member of your party and beg them to invoke the redemption rules in the book of Exalted Deeds. You can slowly become un-evil, simply by it infecting you like a disease. (Sorry if this went long, I just wanted to show you some of your options)
JulesCARV 12-19-06, 06:33 PM	Arghh... alignment change cards are so silly. It just doesn't make sense to alter someone's alignment without altering their basic behaviors or motivations. Anyway, though, for your character, the shift from law to chaos is a bigger deal than the shift from neutrality to evil. How would one account for such a shift? Well, I don't know much about your character, but if he's a stereotypically studious, nerdy LN wizard, I'd play it as "burning out," much like other nerdy, studious types like law or medical students have a tendency to burn out. Basically, your wizard says "I've spent 20 years of my life learning sigils, formulae, somatic components, etc, hoping that 'eventually' I'd be some powerful archmage or something. Well screw that. I want to live! I want to party, drink, screw, run around naked, sing silly songs, and laugh a little!" As for the evil part, if he becomes a burnt out type seeking pleasure, fun, etc that he's never previously enjoyed in life, I'm sure you can see how this could take an evil twist. He's developing a newfound sense of humor? Give it a bit of a cruel twist. He's wants to enjoy a sex life, but isn't too charismatic or experienced? Nothing like a charm spell to keep his confidence up and make things easier.
Druid_of_the_storm 12-24-06, 03:36 PM	you could rp a scenario that has someone close to him executed via a corrupt court...this would turn his heart colder and shaft his belief in a just court...possibly evil for revenge against the government, unlawful because of what happened to his friend was wrong...so naturally you wouldn't follow a corrupted sense of justice
Kitaki 12-24-06, 05:50 PM	Does your group know you are evil (in character)? If they don't, cause your character to become more suspicious, treat it as though he just snapped.
Adolph_Kheebler 12-25-06, 08:36 PM	Good and evil, by their very defintion, are not supposed to mix. You can mix Lawful and Chaotic, but not Good and Evil. I'd suggest talking to your DM, seeing as you're on the enemy team as of the moment. DO NOT DO THAT! Treating alignments as absolutes severely limits roleplaying. First you need to decide what kind of chaotic evil. You can go the stereotypical blow up everything in sight, or you can be interesting. Chaotic Evil could take the form of sadism and torture. It could also be really nasty tricks. It could also be extreme revenge. Let me stress this again: There are many ways to play each alignment. Don't just blindly follow the book saying that good and evil don't mix. Roleplay it out. It may well mean that these don't mix but it is not a hard and fast rule. It shouldn't be a rule at all. Secondly: Do the rest of the group know you are now evil? Has anyone cast a detect evil spell on you? If not I would recommend getting a ring of mind shielding as quickly as possible and pretending to play the same character while keeping sinister desires. I actually had a very similar situation recently. Our group found and (stupidly) drank an unknown potion we found in the sewers of Waterdeep. My Sun Elf telepath (LN) was transformed over 12 weeks into a Yuan-ti. Our whole group was turned into mutant freaks. My DM took me aside and said that due to the potion, my alignment was changing to NE (a bit irritating as this was the first non-evil character I had played and it really screwed up my plans for him). I got a ring of mind shielding and basically kept the same character in their presence while doing more sinister things on the side. I was inducted into a secret Yuan-ti cabal opperating within Waterdeep and took over the slaving operations at night with the help of being a telepath. My new alignment is actually being tested now since the rest of the party is getting suspicious of me. So I decided that, being NE now, it was time for them to die. They were useful for a while, serving as meat shields and other help, but they are jeopardizing my advancement so they die now (I really hope none of them read this post). Basically what I would do is shift your thinking of your companions from friends and companions to "tools". Use them as you see fit and scheme away in the background.
camirblu 12-26-06, 08:58 PM	You can mix Lawful and Chaotic Not always true, and sometimes it can be easier to mix good and evil than law and chaos...it depends on the strength and the exact value of the interpretation. For instance, a lawful character might have a specific belief set and method of doing things. A chaotic one could end up running all over that and drive the poor fellow into an early retirement! A lawful evil person might find more in common with a lawful neutral one than a chaotic evil one. Yes, we're talking about goodly and CE...I think the player might run into problems long-term, but short-term they should be ok. Long-term they might want to start looking for some sort of solution. Perhaps...he might work to gradually shift his alignment to NE if the DM allows it. Sort of a gradual weaking of the magic, or just the effects of continual influence by his party members. It just depends, like alot of things, and requires you to know your party and your DM and their expectations and interpretations of the world you play in.
theotherdraxen 12-26-06, 09:04 PM	DO NOT DO THAT! You misunderstand me, sir. This is what I would do in that situation. When I play D&D, the majority of my characters make themselves the enemies of evil. It's like being a goldminer and finding out one of your allies was a giant 20k block. Again, though, I'm a LG zealot, so I might not be best to judge by.
JulesCARV 12-26-06, 11:35 PM	I, for one, think that a chaotic evil character can get along with a good party more easily than a lawful evil one. Billy the NG bard: Hey Katie, what's that holy symbol? Katie the LE cleric: The gauntleted fist grasping lightning? It is a symbol of my lord Hextor, greatest of the gods. Billy: Hextor? Isn't he a dreaded, evil god of tyranny and domination? Katie: That is correct. I have given over my life to him, and pledge to serve him with courage, devotion, and unswerving ruthlessness. Billy: Really? Hm... I don't suppose you would be interested in worshipping Corellon . Katie: No. I have taken an unholy vow to serve him for all eternity, and I am not the kind to lie or take oaths casually, bard (sneering). Billy: Hmm... this is problematic. Contrast this with Billy and Sam the CE wizard Billy: Hey Sam! Mind if I borrow some copper wire for a message spell? I ran out. Sam: No problem, my friend. Billy (rooting around in Sam's spell component pouch): Ah, found some wire. Thanks. Sam: Always a pleasure to help a friend. Billy: Err... can I ask a quick question? Sam: Sure. Did you need some more pointers on arcane theory? Billy: Actually, I saw some Onyx stones in your pouch. I heard those are used for unholy necromancy, but I'm sure that's not the case for you. What are those for? Sam: Hah! You're right, they are frequently used for animating the dead. I'm glad your keeping your eyes sharp -- we can never be too cautious on a perilous quest like this. In my case, though, I'm using them in some arcane research I'm conducting. Billy: I didn't mean to imply... Sam: No, no, not at all my friend. I took no offense at your perfectly legitimate question. Incidentally, there is a relationship between my research and the more nefarious uses of onyx -- onyx's use in the necromantic channeling of negative energy is well understood, but using onyx to channel positive energy for healing spells is a much more primitive art. That's what I'm working on. If it works, wizards will be able to heal people like clerics, with just a bit of onyx as a focus. Everyone will benefit if my research comes to fruition, although to be honest, I'm a long way from completing it. Billy: Really? Sam: In fact, I've heard that some bards are capable of using the arcane arts to heal. I'm really looking for a way to cure diseases, but any healing ability would be useful. I've actually been meaning to consult with you on this matter, as a bard, but we've all been so busy lately. Billy: I'd be glad to help you, Sam.