How would violence warp teen adventurers? [Archive] - Wizards Community

How would violence warp teen adventurers? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Demonwolf
04-22-06, 01:22 AM The name of the thread pretty much says it all. I don't know where to do the psychological research on this topic, so I figure this might be as good a place as any to start. What I have in mind are characters who started their adventuring career between ages 13-17 and are now currently atleast three years into it, veterans in their own right. This is for an NPC, but I'm also trying to figure out how to guide PCs into falling into this role. Keep in mind I intend to lead them (and the NPC ally) into the roles of characters who know the repercussions of the violence they commit and know that they are taking the lives of sentient beings, not naive wide-eyed crusaders (although I won't be making the decision for them. Still, that's the tone I want to set). They'll be in an urban setting with violence being shadier, less glorified, so it won't be as easy to rationalize. So, any thoughts?

On a related note, does anyone know of any books about the psychology of young WWII veterans?
Ivarrius
04-22-06, 01:27 AM Well, that is a difficult thing to compare to WWII psychology. In a fantasy world, certain types of violence are more common place, and yet, more honorable (IMO). For example, killing a man face to face, in armed combat, to me, is much more honorable than sniping from 2 km away.

When battle was fought face to face, it seems there was more respect, if that makes any sense.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand, if the youth was exposed to violence and was a part of it, the way it affected him depends on the part he played in the violence.

It's really a difficult question to answer. Some people are built for war, and some are not. Which is he?
BrutalMisery
04-22-06, 11:07 AM Here's my thoughts:

You have a guide, a mentor leading these young childern through their new life. Their days are filled with violence, adrenaline, offensive/defensive magic, horrible monsters, and wickedly tough puzzles that kill you if you fail. And this includes when they aren't out adventuring. And, at the end of the day, there is the guide, telling them that you shouldn't turn into some one who uses their strength to take from others. That will be hard to pull off, with a 100% success, anyway. These kids will be learning that hobogoblins need to hit with fireballs, but not the innkeeper. As teenagers, everything is already changing, rapidly. They are prone to over-reacting to situtations that childern wouldn't understand, and adults shrug at. They are finding their niche, and its filled with blood and ashes.

Not only will they feel 'different' from everyone else, they will be different. Your 3rd level fighter 16 year old, who is a little behind in the puberty chain, will be able send all those bullies to the healers with broken bones, along with the town guard that shows up. Plus, he might have magic items, making everything worse. That kind of power goes to your head. Even if you don't want it, you still get a little cheap thrill out of it. And, yeah, power's addictive. Even the more selfless person gets a kick out of people going to him for help; "they can't do without me. They need me". So that's another worry.

Last thought, spellcasters. Divine casters will be hearing their gods speak to them, urging them to ready spells and fight evil. Arcane casters will be feeling magic course through their bodies, screaming to leapt out and alter the world. But rogues and fighters? They can- barring mental inbalnces- set their blades down, and drink, hang out, flirt, and never feel their role in the party. Is this important? Not treally. Just something to think about. Just consider when the sorcereress who lobs fireballs and death spells turnes down drinking because she doesn't want to 'slip'. And what happens when she sees the parties bard getting lit? Another wizard getting plastered?

Anyhow, this is all kids of intresting. If ya don't mind, I just might shamelessly steal it from you...
JulesCARV
04-22-06, 11:33 AM Well... I found a link to a Lancet study (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T1B-4BX6380-F&_coverDate=03%2F13%2F2004&_alid=393524572&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_qd=1&_cdi=4886&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000001358&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=5745&md5=2fb92855f82115a491e9ff4c7d754ed7) on Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder among Ugandan Child Soldiers (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=15031032&dopt=Abstract).

Update: Argghh... the whole Wizards system of making you go to a leaving page and chopping up your URL screwed up my link. Anyway, here's the URL that actually works.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T1B-4BX6380-F&_coverDate=03%2F13%2F2004&_alid=393524572&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_qd=1&_cdi=4886&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000001358&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=5745&md5=2fb92855f82115a491e9ff4c7d754ed7
Demonwolf
04-22-06, 11:42 AM Just so you guys know, teen adventurers aren't exceedingly rare in this setting, and while 16 is the acceptable age in this setting to begin a career in said field, younger kids in poorer and/or more dangerous areas are going to be learning how to defend themselves.

There's a longstanding cold-to-lukewarm war between a socialistic empire and democratic empire going on in this world with more than a few iffy borders being set and fought over, and the reason teen adventurers are vital to the setting is because the democratic side, with a weaker economy and less raw military force relies heavily on an organization that trains orphans taken in, children of nobles, children from military families, etc from their childhood or early teens, possibly even from birth. The territories of the socialistic side, meanwhile, are cutthroat enough in their politics to breed young adventurers without any special support.
Pfisiar
04-23-06, 09:04 AM Violence can affect anyone, I should think. If you've seen enough, you've seen enough. Just ask all the kids who come home from war "shell shocked" or suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder? It can happen to anyone, any time. So, I don't see why pointing out children and teenagers can make much of a difference.
Yevgeny
04-28-06, 02:37 PM I don't think the romantic idea of hand to hand combat will make the reality of it less horrifying. When war consisted of massed peasants running up to each other and making like the other guy is a chunk of meat for the butchering, I cannot imagine anyone came away from that feeling positive about their experiences.
But a sense of moral rightness does make a difference, I'd guess. Adventurers, like cops, see themselves as helping out the litle guy by fighting the bad. But with no jails for monsters, killing them is the only way to prevent recidivism, right?
They'd lose a sense of life's worth -that's for sure- since they kill at the drop of a hat, in the pursuit of their careers. They'd be like the cops that shot Amadou Diallo, but living in a world without peer review and repercussions for that kind of mistake.
Not sure that would apply in your setting though. Anyhow, so goeth mis dos centavos.
--
LazyPeon
05-04-06, 06:00 PM I think you're wrong there. I'm pretty sure the Athenians came away from Marathon feeling pretty good about themselves. And even they concluded that the Persians fought bravely, they recognised that their victory came from their superior training and equipment and gave their enemies due respect for their courage. How can you know if your enemy fights bravely if you blow off his head from 2km away?

I think if you have a whole party of these young adventurers then perhaps one or more of them will come to revel in the bloodshed and begin looking for fights. Of course the other, more morally sound characters could try to restrain them, it could make for some interesting RP opportunities. Maybe you could even leave out alignments and then have them develop as the character adjusts to their position on the violence they get involved in.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Demonwolf 04-22-06, 01:22 AM	The name of the thread pretty much says it all. I don't know where to do the psychological research on this topic, so I figure this might be as good a place as any to start. What I have in mind are characters who started their adventuring career between ages 13-17 and are now currently atleast three years into it, veterans in their own right. This is for an NPC, but I'm also trying to figure out how to guide PCs into falling into this role. Keep in mind I intend to lead them (and the NPC ally) into the roles of characters who know the repercussions of the violence they commit and know that they are taking the lives of sentient beings, not naive wide-eyed crusaders (although I won't be making the decision for them. Still, that's the tone I want to set). They'll be in an urban setting with violence being shadier, less glorified, so it won't be as easy to rationalize. So, any thoughts? On a related note, does anyone know of any books about the psychology of young WWII veterans?
Ivarrius 04-22-06, 01:27 AM	Well, that is a difficult thing to compare to WWII psychology. In a fantasy world, certain types of violence are more common place, and yet, more honorable (IMO). For example, killing a man face to face, in armed combat, to me, is much more honorable than sniping from 2 km away. When battle was fought face to face, it seems there was more respect, if that makes any sense. Anyway, back to the topic at hand, if the youth was exposed to violence and was a part of it, the way it affected him depends on the part he played in the violence. It's really a difficult question to answer. Some people are built for war, and some are not. Which is he?
BrutalMisery 04-22-06, 11:07 AM	Here's my thoughts: You have a guide, a mentor leading these young childern through their new life. Their days are filled with violence, adrenaline, offensive/defensive magic, horrible monsters, and wickedly tough puzzles that kill you if you fail. And this includes when they aren't out adventuring. And, at the end of the day, there is the guide, telling them that you shouldn't turn into some one who uses their strength to take from others. That will be hard to pull off, with a 100% success, anyway. These kids will be learning that hobogoblins need to hit with fireballs, but not the innkeeper. As teenagers, everything is already changing, rapidly. They are prone to over-reacting to situtations that childern wouldn't understand, and adults shrug at. They are finding their niche, and its filled with blood and ashes. Not only will they feel 'different' from everyone else, they will be different. Your 3rd level fighter 16 year old, who is a little behind in the puberty chain, will be able send all those bullies to the healers with broken bones, along with the town guard that shows up. Plus, he might have magic items, making everything worse. That kind of power goes to your head. Even if you don't want it, you still get a little cheap thrill out of it. And, yeah, power's addictive. Even the more selfless person gets a kick out of people going to him for help; "they can't do without me. They need me". So that's another worry. Last thought, spellcasters. Divine casters will be hearing their gods speak to them, urging them to ready spells and fight evil. Arcane casters will be feeling magic course through their bodies, screaming to leapt out and alter the world. But rogues and fighters? They can- barring mental inbalnces- set their blades down, and drink, hang out, flirt, and never feel their role in the party. Is this important? Not treally. Just something to think about. Just consider when the sorcereress who lobs fireballs and death spells turnes down drinking because she doesn't want to 'slip'. And what happens when she sees the parties bard getting lit? Another wizard getting plastered? Anyhow, this is all kids of intresting. If ya don't mind, I just might shamelessly steal it from you...
JulesCARV 04-22-06, 11:33 AM	Well... I found a link to a Lancet study (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T1B-4BX6380-F&_coverDate=03%2F13%2F2004&_alid=393524572&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_qd=1&_cdi=4886&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000001358&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=5745&md5=2fb92855f82115a491e9ff4c7d754ed7) on Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder among Ugandan Child Soldiers (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=15031032&dopt=Abstract). Update: Argghh... the whole Wizards system of making you go to a leaving page and chopping up your URL screwed up my link. Anyway, here's the URL that actually works. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T1B-4BX6380-F&_coverDate=03%2F13%2F2004&_alid=393524572&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_qd=1&_cdi=4886&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000001358&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=5745&md5=2fb92855f82115a491e9ff4c7d754ed7
Demonwolf 04-22-06, 11:42 AM	Just so you guys know, teen adventurers aren't exceedingly rare in this setting, and while 16 is the acceptable age in this setting to begin a career in said field, younger kids in poorer and/or more dangerous areas are going to be learning how to defend themselves. There's a longstanding cold-to-lukewarm war between a socialistic empire and democratic empire going on in this world with more than a few iffy borders being set and fought over, and the reason teen adventurers are vital to the setting is because the democratic side, with a weaker economy and less raw military force relies heavily on an organization that trains orphans taken in, children of nobles, children from military families, etc from their childhood or early teens, possibly even from birth. The territories of the socialistic side, meanwhile, are cutthroat enough in their politics to breed young adventurers without any special support.
Pfisiar 04-23-06, 09:04 AM	Violence can affect anyone, I should think. If you've seen enough, you've seen enough. Just ask all the kids who come home from war "shell shocked" or suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder? It can happen to anyone, any time. So, I don't see why pointing out children and teenagers can make much of a difference.
Yevgeny 04-28-06, 02:37 PM	I don't think the romantic idea of hand to hand combat will make the reality of it less horrifying. When war consisted of massed peasants running up to each other and making like the other guy is a chunk of meat for the butchering, I cannot imagine anyone came away from that feeling positive about their experiences. But a sense of moral rightness does make a difference, I'd guess. Adventurers, like cops, see themselves as helping out the litle guy by fighting the bad. But with no jails for monsters, killing them is the only way to prevent recidivism, right? They'd lose a sense of life's worth -that's for sure- since they kill at the drop of a hat, in the pursuit of their careers. They'd be like the cops that shot Amadou Diallo, but living in a world without peer review and repercussions for that kind of mistake. Not sure that would apply in your setting though. Anyhow, so goeth mis dos centavos. --
LazyPeon 05-04-06, 06:00 PM	I think you're wrong there. I'm pretty sure the Athenians came away from Marathon feeling pretty good about themselves. And even they concluded that the Persians fought bravely, they recognised that their victory came from their superior training and equipment and gave their enemies due respect for their courage. How can you know if your enemy fights bravely if you blow off his head from 2km away? I think if you have a whole party of these young adventurers then perhaps one or more of them will come to revel in the bloodshed and begin looking for fights. Of course the other, more morally sound characters could try to restrain them, it could make for some interesting RP opportunities. Maybe you could even leave out alignments and then have them develop as the character adjusts to their position on the violence they get involved in.