I'm not a Bard! [Archive] - Wizards Community

I'm not a Bard! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Epicuris
09-24-03, 03:30 PM I started a new campaign a few weeks ago and we all started our characters at level 1. Now, we're level three and my DM is breathing down my neck.

My character is a wizard, specializing in enchantments with envocation and conjuring as his banned schools. I did this mostly out of flavor for the character and that I am sick of other players expecting me to be a fireball dispencer. This is his personality.

He is highly intellectual, but instead of interest in subjects such as Knowledge (Planes), etc. I've maxed out Knowledge (Arts and Literature), Knowledge (Arcana), Spellcraft, Concentration, Craft (calligraphy), Profession (author) and have been using my other skill points for cross-class skills such as Perform, Diplomacy, Bluff, and Sense Motive to flesh him out. This is all in the name of character concept. My character sees magic as an art form, not a bunch of rituals. He is a scholar of the arts, so to say.

The problem I'm having with my DM is he's harping on me to play my character "like a wizard." He is ****** because when I said I was going to play a wizard, he and "the players expected a wizard. Not a wannabe bard." I fill the role of a wizard in the group, but I'm not pigeon-holed into one idea.

He's threatened to take action against my character if he "doesn't shape up." I have to ask: A.) Should I seek a comprimise? B.) Does my character sound out of place? C.) Should I tell him where he can stick his DM notes? :D

Thanks ahead of time.
Falkus
09-24-03, 03:37 PM C sounds good.
Campeador
09-24-03, 03:45 PM I gotta agree with Falkus, that C is, though perhaps not the best option, it's still the most honest one. What does a DM have to say about the way you play your character? If it's breaking the D&D rules, I can imagine, but not with this. The coolest thing of D&D is versatility. The way how you can play practically any class they way you want. And I don't think it's the right of the DM to tell you how to play your character....

So just play a 'wannabe-bard' as the DM so elegantly put it, and have fun with it...:D:D
zioth
09-24-03, 04:29 PM Is your character useless in combat situations in a combat-heavy game? It doesn't seem so to me, since an enchanter can get a whole lot done when he needs to, but that kind of thing can easily become annoying to less roleplaying-oriented players and DMs. I was once in a similar situation, playing an illusionist who had enchantment as a forbidden school, and refused to cast damage spells out of moral principle. I could tell the group was going to start hating me (that is, if the game had lasted more than two sessions).

If your character isn't holding his own, it's up to the other characters to realize this, and talk to him or even to kick him out of the group. The DM has no right to "take action" against your character, just because you're not playing a wizard the way he'd play one.

If your character is holding his own, then no one should be complaining.
Epicuris
09-24-03, 05:13 PM My character has pulled the group out of jams in his three levels than any two other characters combined. Since attack spells run out quickly at low levels, I've concentrated on "knock out" spells and untility. Charm Person has provided us a meat shield for three of our five adventures, saving massive amounts of resources and healing. Prismatic Spray has turn a potential battle for life into a small fray. I've coup de graced my share of monsters with my dagger.

Since my Charisma is above average (14), I've become the "face" of our group, considering our Rogue prefers to be Spiderman with a lockpick and has below average Charisma. Overall, only the Barbarian, Monk, and DM seem to have a problem with my character, but the Rogue and Cleric have no problems. It's a city-based, level 1 to Epic, roleplaying campaign. Plenty of character building instead of hack and slash. This is one reason why I'm surprised at my DM's threats.
zioth
09-24-03, 06:05 PM It sounds to me like your character is perfectly suited for the campaign. He's the kind of character that I, and many of the other DMs who read this board, would love to have in our campaigns.

So I assume you've just recently started a new game, and the other players are used to you being a fireball dispenser. Instead of throwing fireballs, you're thowing enchantments, and doing a great job of it, perhaps helping the party more than you would have as a pyromaniac.

I can only assume that the other players will eventually get the idea that you're not hurting the party, and stop bothering you. We should just hope this happens before the DM takes action against your character.

I really don't know what his problem is. Have you tried talking to him, asking exactly why your character is so unsuitable?
Poukis
09-24-03, 06:22 PM Not the thread, your DM's reaction... I mean, enchantment spells can be much more powerful than a plain, cliche (or however it is written) fireball or any other evocation spell... And especially in such a low level! What do they want? They miss the plain old magic missile? Enchantment is one of the few schools that actually have multi-targeted first level spells, such as sleep and hypnotism. And what would the players rather? Killing the evil guy's hunchman and do all the research, or instead charm him, so that you can learn everything about the head? And what better torture than Tasha's hideous laughter? :smirk: Anyway, I think that your DM is just stubborn and should look away from the stereotype wizard. And actually it's not even the stereotype wizard that throws an endless link of fireball, but the sorcerer. If they have a problem with that let the other players makle a "look... there goes another fireball... what a surprise" sorcerer. Lastly you should make your DM take a look at this thread!:)

PS. DnD is not a dictatorship game... No one tells anyone what to do. If they don't like your wizard, ask them if they would like to have no wizard at all!
Poukis
09-24-03, 06:23 PM By the way, I forgot... Very nice character! :D
Alrunic Silverfyre
09-24-03, 08:08 PM Can I elect a new option? D. Stab your DM in the face with a spork and walk out.

What kind of a dictator do you have sitting on the other end of that table?! My gods, in the 7+ years I have been role playing in various systems and settings, never have I heard such a load of DM uber crap. Honestly, if this was my DM, He would be down one spork to the inside of his skull. It's your character and it is a very well done concept. I love the idea of this character and how you presented him. Walk away and find yourself another game. And burn that DM's books and take away his DMing license.

Sorry if I seem worked up about this but as a DM and player, I can't stand morons like this. Go DM with your stuffed animals you control freak.
Morka
09-24-03, 08:14 PM Did you read the trilogy of the Wyvernspur? Your character remember me the wizard from Turmish (don't remember his name...). Everyone called him a carpet negociant! But at the right time, he thrown a fireball in a Wall of Ice, so he was the best wizard of the place for a moment!
Epicuris
09-24-03, 08:22 PM Originally posted by Poukis
Lastly you should make your DM take a look at this thread!:)

That's why I posted this thread. I'm not vindictive by nature, but... I'm going to enjoy rubbing his nose in this.

I would like to say thank you for the support I've received in just one afternoon. I guess us "anti-stereotype" people have to stick together.
Alrunic Silverfyre
09-24-03, 08:27 PM Of course! And I give my support to those who have really great signature quotes....I have to try that out one day!
EvilDuck
09-24-03, 09:05 PM Your party consists of you, a Barbarian, a Monk, a Rogue, and a Cleric. Seems like the DM expects you to provide rear cover with projectiles for the melee fighters (Conan and Bruce Lee) while the Cleric runs around healing said brawlers, and the Rogue tries to get a sneak attack in for the coup de grace. Solution: Get the Rogue a longbow, explain to your DM that you can RP your character however the hell you want because that's the fun of D&D, and if you get any more flak about from him, quit. I wish all the people in my group were more like you.
Epicuris
09-24-03, 09:17 PM Originally posted by EvilDuck
I wish all the people in my group were more like you.

Wow... I haven't felt this accepted since I suggested to the football team that we should phase grading out of a college education. :D
PhaedrusXY
09-24-03, 09:40 PM Originally posted by Epicuris
Wow... I haven't felt this accepted since I suggested to the football team that we should phase grading out of a college education. :D :rofl:

Yeah, tell the complainers to "get stuffed". Point out to them that your character has been more than effective, and that it is none of their business how you play him, especially if you're not dead weight to the party.
Alrunic Silverfyre
09-24-03, 09:45 PM And don't forget to stab the DM with a spork. I'll lend you mine.
Epicuris
09-24-03, 09:50 PM Don't worry, I have pleanty of left over sporks from KFC. I guess I've found a use for them after all.
Alrunic Silverfyre
09-24-03, 09:52 PM Then I don't need to tell you what to do with the honeysauce. My work is done.

Good luck!
EvilDuck
09-24-03, 09:56 PM Honeysauce? Oooh, intriguing.
Ranthanas
09-25-03, 08:12 AM C: Tell the DM to get stuffed.

You should be more use to the party than any evoker ever could be (and indeed you are). My only suggestion would be the versatile feat from the FRCS... And the Loremaster PrC, but I'm sure you either worked that out or had your own plans. For that matter, point out that you are a loremaster in training and that that is one of the classic Wizard archetypes.

Other than that, keep up the good work.
Frodo Lives
09-25-03, 03:31 PM Tell your DM to get bent. As stated previously, if your character is contributing to the party and is fitting in personality and goal wise, then the other players shouldn't have a problem either. It's not like you're an assasin in a group of paladins, you are playing a wizard that isn't the direct damage type, he sounds pretty cool to me.

I have never before heard of a DM trying to impose his will because he doesn't like the "feel" of your character, and only because it's not the way he'd play one. Tell him that next time he plays to role play his character any way he likes. In game my only concern about other party members are:

1) Are they pulling their own wieght?

2) Are thier goals similar to mine?

3) Are they trustworthy?

4) Does he/she have a personality that is not extremly detrimental to the group?

That's it. I don't care if you are an Orc or Elf, Fighter or Monk, if the answer to the 4 questions above are yes, the characters should have no problem with your wizard.

I like the idea of going for the Loremaster PrC, and at least that gives a reason for the DM to get off your back. If the DM is still picking on your wizard, then start pointing out things in the other characters that might be a little different and say that's what makes each character special, they are not a carbon copy of the typical version. If they are the typical version of the class then they should be thanking you for breaking up the monotony.
Trydan
09-26-03, 10:09 AM Going back to the original message in this thread, it sounds like you are playing your character as your would play an enchanter. And as your prohibited schools include Evocation, I'm curious to know in what way your DM expects "a wizard" to be played.

As far as I can see, you are fitting into the Enchanter stereotype quite nicely.

:confused:
Campeador
09-26-03, 10:29 AM I think that DM is a pretty uptight guy, who only sees the use in Evocation or something. Just a hunch. Of course that's no way to go. Every school has it's good and bad spells. Yes, Evocation may seem most useful in hack 'n slash game, but I'd wager that Enchantment can be more useful in some ways.
dulldoll
10-05-03, 01:39 PM Prestige classes could nicely back your character concept up mechanically. Harper Mage has most of your characters skills as class skills, for example, and with a somewhat tight planning, you can even qualify as Wizard/Harper Mage/Virtuoso (I have played this combo once and had immense fun). Loremaster is another nice choice, I think.

Have fun with your character! :)
Obi-Wan Quixote
10-07-03, 09:53 AM I think the DM is a bit "full of it" for threatening to "take action" against the wizard's player, but there is a very slight truth here. In the standard adventuring party, the wizard is a major damage-dealer. If that's not this wizard's style, that's fine. But an over-reliance on enchantment and illusion, just like an over-reliance on evocation, can prove deadly for the party.

If I were the DM, I wouldn't threaten to "take action," but after the enchantment/illusion wizard stats relying on enchantment, illusion, and diplomatic skills, I'd start throwing different challenges at him in the form of constructs and undead to force the player a little outside of his wizardly comfort zone.

Just my opinion, of course.
spoon242
10-07-03, 02:44 PM am i right in understanding your character considers himself to be an artist/creative type? if so, perhaps he'd want to start researching his own spells, and in so doing come up with some new ones, whether they be damage-dealers or not.

although your dm's acting like a real wanker, quixote's right; what happens when you start coming up against opponents who are immune to mind-influencing effects (like undead, constructs, etc.)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Epicuris 09-24-03, 03:30 PM	I started a new campaign a few weeks ago and we all started our characters at level 1. Now, we're level three and my DM is breathing down my neck. My character is a wizard, specializing in enchantments with envocation and conjuring as his banned schools. I did this mostly out of flavor for the character and that I am sick of other players expecting me to be a fireball dispencer. This is his personality. He is highly intellectual, but instead of interest in subjects such as Knowledge (Planes), etc. I've maxed out Knowledge (Arts and Literature), Knowledge (Arcana), Spellcraft, Concentration, Craft (calligraphy), Profession (author) and have been using my other skill points for cross-class skills such as Perform, Diplomacy, Bluff, and Sense Motive to flesh him out. This is all in the name of character concept. My character sees magic as an art form, not a bunch of rituals. He is a scholar of the arts, so to say. The problem I'm having with my DM is he's harping on me to play my character "like a wizard." He is ****** because when I said I was going to play a wizard, he and "the players expected a wizard. Not a wannabe bard." I fill the role of a wizard in the group, but I'm not pigeon-holed into one idea. He's threatened to take action against my character if he "doesn't shape up." I have to ask: A.) Should I seek a comprimise? B.) Does my character sound out of place? C.) Should I tell him where he can stick his DM notes? :D Thanks ahead of time.
Falkus 09-24-03, 03:37 PM	C sounds good.
Campeador 09-24-03, 03:45 PM	I gotta agree with Falkus, that C is, though perhaps not the best option, it's still the most honest one. What does a DM have to say about the way you play your character? If it's breaking the D&D rules, I can imagine, but not with this. The coolest thing of D&D is versatility. The way how you can play practically any class they way you want. And I don't think it's the right of the DM to tell you how to play your character.... So just play a 'wannabe-bard' as the DM so elegantly put it, and have fun with it...:D:D
zioth 09-24-03, 04:29 PM	Is your character useless in combat situations in a combat-heavy game? It doesn't seem so to me, since an enchanter can get a whole lot done when he needs to, but that kind of thing can easily become annoying to less roleplaying-oriented players and DMs. I was once in a similar situation, playing an illusionist who had enchantment as a forbidden school, and refused to cast damage spells out of moral principle. I could tell the group was going to start hating me (that is, if the game had lasted more than two sessions). If your character isn't holding his own, it's up to the other characters to realize this, and talk to him or even to kick him out of the group. The DM has no right to "take action" against your character, just because you're not playing a wizard the way he'd play one. If your character is holding his own, then no one should be complaining.
Epicuris 09-24-03, 05:13 PM	My character has pulled the group out of jams in his three levels than any two other characters combined. Since attack spells run out quickly at low levels, I've concentrated on "knock out" spells and untility. Charm Person has provided us a meat shield for three of our five adventures, saving massive amounts of resources and healing. Prismatic Spray has turn a potential battle for life into a small fray. I've coup de graced my share of monsters with my dagger. Since my Charisma is above average (14), I've become the "face" of our group, considering our Rogue prefers to be Spiderman with a lockpick and has below average Charisma. Overall, only the Barbarian, Monk, and DM seem to have a problem with my character, but the Rogue and Cleric have no problems. It's a city-based, level 1 to Epic, roleplaying campaign. Plenty of character building instead of hack and slash. This is one reason why I'm surprised at my DM's threats.
zioth 09-24-03, 06:05 PM	It sounds to me like your character is perfectly suited for the campaign. He's the kind of character that I, and many of the other DMs who read this board, would love to have in our campaigns. So I assume you've just recently started a new game, and the other players are used to you being a fireball dispenser. Instead of throwing fireballs, you're thowing enchantments, and doing a great job of it, perhaps helping the party more than you would have as a pyromaniac. I can only assume that the other players will eventually get the idea that you're not hurting the party, and stop bothering you. We should just hope this happens before the DM takes action against your character. I really don't know what his problem is. Have you tried talking to him, asking exactly why your character is so unsuitable?
Poukis 09-24-03, 06:22 PM	Not the thread, your DM's reaction... I mean, enchantment spells can be much more powerful than a plain, cliche (or however it is written) fireball or any other evocation spell... And especially in such a low level! What do they want? They miss the plain old magic missile? Enchantment is one of the few schools that actually have multi-targeted first level spells, such as sleep and hypnotism. And what would the players rather? Killing the evil guy's hunchman and do all the research, or instead charm him, so that you can learn everything about the head? And what better torture than Tasha's hideous laughter? :smirk: Anyway, I think that your DM is just stubborn and should look away from the stereotype wizard. And actually it's not even the stereotype wizard that throws an endless link of fireball, but the sorcerer. If they have a problem with that let the other players makle a "look... there goes another fireball... what a surprise" sorcerer. Lastly you should make your DM take a look at this thread!:) PS. DnD is not a dictatorship game... No one tells anyone what to do. If they don't like your wizard, ask them if they would like to have no wizard at all!
Poukis 09-24-03, 06:23 PM	By the way, I forgot... Very nice character! :D
Alrunic Silverfyre 09-24-03, 08:08 PM	Can I elect a new option? D. Stab your DM in the face with a spork and walk out. What kind of a dictator do you have sitting on the other end of that table?! My gods, in the 7+ years I have been role playing in various systems and settings, never have I heard such a load of DM uber crap. Honestly, if this was my DM, He would be down one spork to the inside of his skull. It's your character and it is a very well done concept. I love the idea of this character and how you presented him. Walk away and find yourself another game. And burn that DM's books and take away his DMing license. Sorry if I seem worked up about this but as a DM and player, I can't stand morons like this. Go DM with your stuffed animals you control freak.
Morka 09-24-03, 08:14 PM	Did you read the trilogy of the Wyvernspur? Your character remember me the wizard from Turmish (don't remember his name...). Everyone called him a carpet negociant! But at the right time, he thrown a fireball in a Wall of Ice, so he was the best wizard of the place for a moment!
Epicuris 09-24-03, 08:22 PM	Originally posted by Poukis Lastly you should make your DM take a look at this thread!:) That's why I posted this thread. I'm not vindictive by nature, but... I'm going to enjoy rubbing his nose in this. I would like to say thank you for the support I've received in just one afternoon. I guess us "anti-stereotype" people have to stick together.
Alrunic Silverfyre 09-24-03, 08:27 PM	Of course! And I give my support to those who have really great signature quotes....I have to try that out one day!
EvilDuck 09-24-03, 09:05 PM	Your party consists of you, a Barbarian, a Monk, a Rogue, and a Cleric. Seems like the DM expects you to provide rear cover with projectiles for the melee fighters (Conan and Bruce Lee) while the Cleric runs around healing said brawlers, and the Rogue tries to get a sneak attack in for the coup de grace. Solution: Get the Rogue a longbow, explain to your DM that you can RP your character however the hell you want because that's the fun of D&D, and if you get any more flak about from him, quit. I wish all the people in my group were more like you.
Epicuris 09-24-03, 09:17 PM	Originally posted by EvilDuck I wish all the people in my group were more like you. Wow... I haven't felt this accepted since I suggested to the football team that we should phase grading out of a college education. :D
PhaedrusXY 09-24-03, 09:40 PM	Originally posted by Epicuris Wow... I haven't felt this accepted since I suggested to the football team that we should phase grading out of a college education. :D :rofl: Yeah, tell the complainers to "get stuffed". Point out to them that your character has been more than effective, and that it is none of their business how you play him, especially if you're not dead weight to the party.
Alrunic Silverfyre 09-24-03, 09:45 PM	And don't forget to stab the DM with a spork. I'll lend you mine.
Epicuris 09-24-03, 09:50 PM	Don't worry, I have pleanty of left over sporks from KFC. I guess I've found a use for them after all.
Alrunic Silverfyre 09-24-03, 09:52 PM	Then I don't need to tell you what to do with the honeysauce. My work is done. Good luck!
EvilDuck 09-24-03, 09:56 PM	Honeysauce? Oooh, intriguing.
Ranthanas 09-25-03, 08:12 AM	C: Tell the DM to get stuffed. You should be more use to the party than any evoker ever could be (and indeed you are). My only suggestion would be the versatile feat from the FRCS... And the Loremaster PrC, but I'm sure you either worked that out or had your own plans. For that matter, point out that you are a loremaster in training and that that is one of the classic Wizard archetypes. Other than that, keep up the good work.
Frodo Lives 09-25-03, 03:31 PM	Tell your DM to get bent. As stated previously, if your character is contributing to the party and is fitting in personality and goal wise, then the other players shouldn't have a problem either. It's not like you're an assasin in a group of paladins, you are playing a wizard that isn't the direct damage type, he sounds pretty cool to me. I have never before heard of a DM trying to impose his will because he doesn't like the "feel" of your character, and only because it's not the way he'd play one. Tell him that next time he plays to role play his character any way he likes. In game my only concern about other party members are: 1) Are they pulling their own wieght? 2) Are thier goals similar to mine? 3) Are they trustworthy? 4) Does he/she have a personality that is not extremly detrimental to the group? That's it. I don't care if you are an Orc or Elf, Fighter or Monk, if the answer to the 4 questions above are yes, the characters should have no problem with your wizard. I like the idea of going for the Loremaster PrC, and at least that gives a reason for the DM to get off your back. If the DM is still picking on your wizard, then start pointing out things in the other characters that might be a little different and say that's what makes each character special, they are not a carbon copy of the typical version. If they are the typical version of the class then they should be thanking you for breaking up the monotony.
Trydan 09-26-03, 10:09 AM	Going back to the original message in this thread, it sounds like you are playing your character as your would play an enchanter. And as your prohibited schools include Evocation, I'm curious to know in what way your DM expects "a wizard" to be played. As far as I can see, you are fitting into the Enchanter stereotype quite nicely. :confused:
Campeador 09-26-03, 10:29 AM	I think that DM is a pretty uptight guy, who only sees the use in Evocation or something. Just a hunch. Of course that's no way to go. Every school has it's good and bad spells. Yes, Evocation may seem most useful in hack 'n slash game, but I'd wager that Enchantment can be more useful in some ways.
dulldoll 10-05-03, 01:39 PM	Prestige classes could nicely back your character concept up mechanically. Harper Mage has most of your characters skills as class skills, for example, and with a somewhat tight planning, you can even qualify as Wizard/Harper Mage/Virtuoso (I have played this combo once and had immense fun). Loremaster is another nice choice, I think. Have fun with your character! :)
Obi-Wan Quixote 10-07-03, 09:53 AM	I think the DM is a bit "full of it" for threatening to "take action" against the wizard's player, but there is a very slight truth here. In the standard adventuring party, the wizard is a major damage-dealer. If that's not this wizard's style, that's fine. But an over-reliance on enchantment and illusion, just like an over-reliance on evocation, can prove deadly for the party. If I were the DM, I wouldn't threaten to "take action," but after the enchantment/illusion wizard stats relying on enchantment, illusion, and diplomatic skills, I'd start throwing different challenges at him in the form of constructs and undead to force the player a little outside of his wizardly comfort zone. Just my opinion, of course.
spoon242 10-07-03, 02:44 PM	am i right in understanding your character considers himself to be an artist/creative type? if so, perhaps he'd want to start researching his own spells, and in so doing come up with some new ones, whether they be damage-dealers or not. although your dm's acting like a real wanker, quixote's right; what happens when you start coming up against opponents who are immune to mind-influencing effects (like undead, constructs, etc.)