Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dave1001 02-24-04, 10:23 PM	What can I say: I've taken a shine to orcs lately. Sure, they're a crappy race, suffering so many penalties and getting little in return. But there's something just really neat about a big, beefy, scary-looking creature wielding a big ax. So anyway, I'm going to be playing in an IM game, and we're all 4th level. There's a pretty wide latitude as to what can be used. So I'm going with a mixture of classes to represent my character's overall drive of acheiving an orcish kingdom (ruled by him of course). He's got 1 level of Barbarian, to represent the more primitive society from which he hails. He's also got 2 levels of fighter, for both the munchkin feat-gaining and the focus on strategy more befitting a great leader. And he's got 1 level of orc paragon, to represent him being the pinicle of orcishness. Regarding stats I dumped the highest score into Str to represent the single driving aspect that orcs respect. Then I put the next highest stat into Charisma, with an ultimate eye towards getting the Orc Warlord PrC. I took Iron Will, Power Attack, Improved Initiative, and Weapon Focus: Greataxe as my feats. So obviously you can see I'm going for the strong/charismatic uniter of my people. As regarding alignment, I've imposed a max. starting 1-step alignment difference. Orcs being CE, I can go either NE or CN. Neither is befitting a good leader, so I'm ultimately thinking of LN or LE. At this point I may just go CN to avoid the temptation to kill my party members in their sleep :smirk: . So what else would be good story-wise? I'm really into this character, and I'm trying to make this as flavorful/indepth as possible. And yet, sadly to say, I have a bad habit of not fleshing out characters to the level they should be. So any and all suggestions on where my character came from, where they're going, etc., would be appreciated. Thanks, Dave
Morka 02-25-04, 10:05 AM	Originally posted by Dave1001 As regarding alignment, I've imposed a max. starting 1-step alignment difference. Orcs being CE, I can go either NE or CN. Neither is befitting a good leader, so I'm ultimately thinking of LN or LE. At this point I may just go CN to avoid the temptation to kill my party members in their sleep :smirk: . IMHO, a good leader doesn't need to be of Lawful alignment. Robin Hood was Chaotic Good, and Attila the Hun was Chaotic Evil, but all great leaders. Are you in an evil campaign? If you decide to play CN, you can have been casted away from your tribe because you were too "weak" (i.e. Not enough bloodthirsty). Now you have to travel with "lesser beings" (i.e. anything except orcs), until you are strong enough to gain followers, build an army, and avenge yourself.
Gingerbread Guy 02-25-04, 11:55 AM	Hiho, Yeah, I don't really see why this Orc is going to be traveling with non-orcs and doing slowly moving away from Orcish alignments in order to establish some kind of Orcish rulership.. it just seems like the absolute wrong direction in which to travel. One thing about Alignment is that no one wants to change theirs. An evil character doesn't want to be good any more than a good person wants to wake up one day and say "Gosh, I think I'll murder my family and eat them today". There has to be some reason why this Orc is vastly different than his kind. Remember, this is akin to a human deciding it would be cool to sell his farm, walk out into the wilderness, mosey up to a clan of 3 or 4 hundred orcs and say "Hi. I'd like to join.. is there a membership application or something?" Its not something that anyone is usually willing to do, so there has to be some kind of driving force. Also, there has to be a reason why he wasn't outright killed or at the very least jailed just for being an Orc. Most civilizations won't tollerate an Orc just walking around, so ask your DM how you can go about backing your character politically. Maybe he has proven himself usefull [and non-evil!] in some manner. Submitting to alignment-detecting spells and comitting good deeds is one way, but it doesn't sound too C-N or N-E. I really don't suggest you go for a Lawful alignment if you're going to rule orcs. The only way you can pull it off is if you are without any doubt the strongest among them, and even so you're going to have to kill a lot of your own people who foolishly challenge you. Even so, your supporters are probably going to be very small, and had only by way of the Leadership or Tyranny feats [which, by the way, isn't that bad a deal. You can get a hundred or more followers that way.] I really have no idea what would drive an Orc to do these things. Perhaps he wasn't always an Orc. You could pull the old Reincarnation trick - he was once a different kind of creature, died, and was reincarnated as an Orc. Perhaps he was a lowly Kobold or Goblin in his former life, and now that he's big he has plans to boss everyone around. I dunno. Best of luck, ~Ginger
Dave1001 02-25-04, 07:52 PM	Originally posted by Morka IMHO, a good leader doesn't need to be of Lawful alignment. Robin Hood was Chaotic Good, and Attila the Hun was Chaotic Evil, but all great leaders. Are you in an evil campaign? If you decide to play CN, you can have been casted away from your tribe because you were too "weak" (i.e. Not enough bloodthirsty). Now you have to travel with "lesser beings" (i.e. anything except orcs), until you are strong enough to gain followers, build an army, and avenge yourself. I don't know if I'm in an evil campaign as yet. Probably not, judging from past experience. As for the lawful aspect of the alignment, I was seeing that as more a reflection of successfully running a kingdom. Chaotic rulers invariably end up getting overthrown as they can't keep order which is a necessary component of any empire.
Dave1001 02-25-04, 08:14 PM	Originally posted by Gingerbread Guy Hiho, Yeah, I don't really see why this Orc is going to be traveling with non-orcs and doing slowly moving away from Orcish alignments in order to establish some kind of Orcish rulership.. it just seems like the absolute wrong direction in which to travel. It's more of a 'no longer welcome in the tribe' type of situation. But I haven't exactly determined why. Perhaps a potential future threat to the chiefton? Maybe there was an attempt on my life but I escaped? I don't know. I haven't settled on that part yet. And I don't even know the makeup of the other characters yet. But if it's a humanoid-type party (sorry for the 2nd ed lingo) then he'd more easily fit in. As for moving away from orcish alignments, I want to do that for two reasons. 1)CE rulers are pretty crappy and usually end up being deposed, and 2)I'm looking towards the future of establishing a stable orcish kingdom. One that won't degenerate into civil war upon my death. One thing about Alignment is that no one wants to change theirs. An evil character doesn't want to be good any more than a good person wants to wake up one day and say "Gosh, I think I'll murder my family and eat them today". There has to be some reason why this Orc is vastly different than his kind. Remember, this is akin to a human deciding it would be cool to sell his farm, walk out into the wilderness, mosey up to a clan of 3 or 4 hundred orcs and say "Hi. I'd like to join.. is there a membership application or something?" Its not something that anyone is usually willing to do, so there has to be some kind of driving force. Indeed. I don't think my character will instantly change alignments. It will be a growing process, as all alignment changes are. Perhaps the character will be dependent upon another for saving their life. Or maybe the character will see the benefits from cooperation, or even sharing. To say that a character must always retain a certain alignment is to, in my opinion, take away a portion of the very purpose of playing this game. Also, there has to be a reason why he wasn't outright killed or at the very least jailed just for being an Orc. Most civilizations won't tollerate an Orc just walking around, so ask your DM how you can go about backing your character politically. Maybe he has proven himself usefull [and non-evil!] in some manner. Submitting to alignment-detecting spells and comitting good deeds is one way, but it doesn't sound too C-N or N-E. Well I don't even know where the campaign will be situated or what the current setting will be like. I will definitely have to work out those details and undoubtedly there will be big problems in any 'civilized' setting. Although when the character sees how he is treated, he will have to question the notion of this 'civilization' and whether it even deserves the place it has. Or maybe it will inspire him to seek out a land for all orcs. [B] I really don't suggest you go for a Lawful alignment if you're going to rule orcs. The only way you can pull it off is if you are without any doubt the strongest among them, and even so you're going to have to kill a lot of your own people who foolishly challenge you. Even so, your supporters are probably going to be very small, and had only by way of the Leadership or Tyranny feats [which, by the way, isn't that bad a deal. You can get a hundred or more followers that way.] Well the Lawful aspect may be just too foreign to the orcish mindset. That's something I'll have to determine. As for leading this fledgling nation (which will obviously have to be won in blood), my character will be taking the Leadership feat, the Might Makes Right feat, and eventually the Blood of the Warlord feat. And the PrC is the Orcish Warlord. So I'm definitely focusing on running my own clan/tribe/kingdom. [B] I really have no idea what would drive an Orc to do these things. Perhaps he wasn't always an Orc. You could pull the old Reincarnation trick - he was once a different kind of creature, died, and was reincarnated as an Orc. Perhaps he was a lowly Kobold or Goblin in his former life, and now that he's big he has plans to boss everyone around. I dunno. Best of luck, ~Ginger He's definitely an orc. However he's a bit smarter than the average orc (Int 12), a bit wiser (Wis 12), and not consumed with bloodlust and killing everything in sight (not CE). He's definitely got plans for power and wealth, but it's from coming at the head of a kingdom of orcs. He's going to see how the other races have things, how they compare to his people, and so he's going to want a better quality of life for his people. Their own land. Their own honor. Their own respect. He knows his people deserve better. And he will give them better no matter what it takes. Of course he's going to be at the forefront helping them. :D
Pegeyepete 02-26-04, 01:08 AM	Reading your original post on the character I'd say shoot for the NE alignment. To me at least it makes sense in the for the character. He sees what the other races have and wants some of that not for his people, but mostly for himself. Perhaps in being an orc with higher INT and WIS abilities he's noticed he's better than his brethren. Challenging the chief may be a dangerous proposition to get into that better station he know he deserves so he goes out to earn enough loot to buy the clout that'll get him a leadership role. Dealing with those other races could just be a means unto an end to get his wealth, and more importantly, his peoples following.
Dave1001 02-26-04, 07:17 AM	yeah, I like that angle. It combines the concern for his race with the concern for his own personal comfort. And those are good rationalizations for traveling with the lesser races.
Morka 02-26-04, 10:59 AM	Originally posted by Dave1001 I don't know if I'm in an evil campaign as yet. Probably not, judging from past experience. As for the lawful aspect of the alignment, I was seeing that as more a reflection of successfully running a kingdom. Chaotic rulers invariably end up getting overthrown as they can't keep order which is a necessary component of any empire. Do you think an average orc bother with the longevity of his empire? All that the average orc wishes is to rule other, be feared by all, and see is foes dying in insuportable pain. However, if you play an orc not bloodthirsty, you can forget the last part :D. Seriously, don't start to metagame before beginning to play! ;)
Kenzuki 02-27-04, 01:59 PM	Man you should be a Warcraft Orc!
Morka 02-27-04, 02:25 PM	Originally posted by Kenzuki Man you should be a Warcraft Orc! Warcraft rules! :fight!: :king:
Dawnspeaker 02-27-04, 02:44 PM	You'd have to be CE, but with the goal of being an orc leader, can be the Orc Warlord from Races of Faerun, gives great leadership abilities. You can also take Might Makes Right, lets you use your Str instead of Charisma for leadership. That of course depends on how he is going to lead. If he is going to abuse and threaten his lessers it is appropriate but if he is a charismatic and forceful leader who drives him men into a frenzy through sheer force of personality you'd want that good charisma score for the role playing purposes.