Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sentient 02-21-06, 08:28 PM	I like wizards. I especially like the old, wiseman archetype, an enchanter and confidant. Gandalf style. At least, I'd like to roleplay it. The problem is, whenever I get a chance, my group likes to start at level 1. Why would a level 1 wizard, barely out of apprenticeship, be old, wrinkled, and kind? To me, all level 1 wizards are ambitious, top-of-their class, and eager to win fame. They aren't really friendly, but obsessed with power. Please help me with some examples of wizardly characters. Or your personal experience of older characters at level 1. Thanks!
Arcticflare 02-21-06, 10:17 PM	The title of this thread could be interpreted many different ways. . . . :D It's not as hard as you make it sound. Come up with a reason as to why he is picking up such an active lifestyle now. Perhaps he wife and kids were killed in a flood, and now has no reason to linger where he used to live. Perhaps he was once a devout follower of some diety, who finally realized they were better suited to arcane magic than that of the divine. Maybe he's a good samaritan who once helped a young mage who had fallen on hard times, and picked up a few tricks. You can still play a Gandalf at first level. It's just a matter of explaining why he's so old.
Vennettai 02-22-06, 01:04 AM	the title of this thread truly disturbed me. lol i mean dang dude. anyway im replying simply cause i hate gandolf i swear to god he was a regular human who new like 5 spells 1)flare or something that just makes alot of light. 2)telekinesis i think thats it just throwing **** around with his mind. hell i cant even remember what else he casted but it sure wasnt alot. i mean if i was a high lvl wizard id maul stuff. ok now dont go flaming me for this but lol i know it will happen. as for the op question. maybe he has been studying magic all his life but is just now delving into actually casting. i mean if you want to do something like that you might want to study all the aspects of it so you know what your doing. cuase thats what wizards do. they study so they can magic missile 5 times a day.
Mist of Shadows 02-22-06, 01:39 AM	I would just say you got cursed. And that you have taken up magic to try to break the curse.
Vennettai 02-22-06, 02:46 AM	that brings to mind you could just have been hit by a vampires slam attack a couple of times. wich would suck. but then again you would have to explain why you know lots of 9th lvl stuff but cant use it
Tashanen 02-22-06, 02:56 AM	He was the local village's old wize man [hedge wizard] basically 0 level spells, ranks in herbalism & alchemy, astrology, etc. Maybe his village was destroyed, or local children were kidnapped and he's off in search of them (depending on the setting, no commoner is willingly going to irritate even a minor user of magic), the possibilities are endless. :)
Innomado 02-22-06, 04:23 AM	I'm not trying to flame you here, I just want to clarify a few things because I realy like accuracy. I actually found this kind of amusing. anyway im replying simply cause i hate gandolf i swear to god he was a regular human who new like 5 spells 1)flare or something that just makes alot of light. 2)telekinesis i think thats it just throwing **** around with his mind. hell i cant even remember what else he casted but it sure wasnt alot. i mean if i was a high lvl wizard id maul stuff. ok now dont go flaming me for this but lol i know it will happen. 1. Gandalf and the other Wizards are not human. They are Istari, lesser spirits who decended to the world to help oppose evil, hence the magic and the longevity (Gandalf was over 2000 years old when he left on the boat with Bilbo and Frodo). 2. Tolkien wasn't thinking about the DnD core rules when he was writing his books :D . A wizard in one world/universe does not have to be equivalent to a wizard in another. Also effecting the natural world through arcane means could be harder in his world than in the standard D&D world which could mean that making light is effectivly to a 9th level spell there. 3. As for Gandalfs spell list. Ignoring the possibility above that in Tolkien's world that magic is harder to use, there is the idea that Gandalf purpose was to help the others complete the trials facing them but not to do it for them as the mortals must be responsible for their own world. So he only used his powers in situations where it was an inconsequential thing (creating light) or something that could not be done by the others (killing the Balrog, countering the charm placed on the King, etc.) I think that Tashanen's hedge wizard idea is one of the better ones so far. Or he could be the kind of person who has always wanted to help people and make a difference in the world (or just wanted to explore) but couldn't because he felt obligated to marry and have children (an only child who must pass on the family name for example). Now that his kids are grown and his wife is dead, (A fever last spring. He never left her bedside as she slowly faded away.) he can follow his heart, being an old man he knows he is to frail to be a fighter so he learns the arcane arts. This creates nice story possibilities as the party might run into his children or grandchildren.
1984 02-22-06, 07:59 AM	Many mention wife, children and grandchildren. Maybe he just found his faith? As in, Evening Glory? So now he gathers power to become a good lich and make his wife an sentinent undead. That could work with the kind man approach too, he is the kindest man alive and all he want's is more time (read: an eternity) with his wife. This would also be a perfect way to protect his other familymembers.
Demonwolf 02-22-06, 08:55 AM	Here's another concept- a retired barbarian or fighter who's been worn to physical weakness by his adventuring lifestyle/disease/a major wound/good-old-fashioned age. After a lifetime of harsh experiences and difficult battles fought, he gave up adventuring after his body weakened and his rage dwindled. After spending his early life with a deep mistrust of magic, he learned to trust it after being saved by an exalted wizard who was a close friend. Once he gained that trust, he began studying privately and sparingly, fascinated by learning in general due to his lack of a childhood education. Now, later in life, he wants to take up the adventuring life again or is forced into it by circumstance, and what he lacks in the physical power he had in his youth he makes up for in the wisdom with which he guides his younger compatriots through the hurdles of adventuring, and the knowledge that he bestows on them. In the meantime, he also gains the magical power that might mean an unexpected extension to the adventures of his youth.
Derrhyn 02-22-06, 12:18 PM	One thing you have to sort out though is that an old man knows a lot (ie. has a lot of ranks in knowledge skills) Regardless of his past he will have picked up quite a bit of information about the world. Try to make a trade with your DM for more ranks and skill points in the knowledge skills. You can for example give up the ability to run at more than twice your base speed. That should be worth a lot. Could somone with more gaming experience than me try to balance that. The only time I did something similar was when I traded a fighters heavy armour proficiency with a +10 in ride and handle animal (horse.) I was playing a mongolian style warrior.
Tashanen 02-22-06, 12:53 PM	There are a couple of ways to emulate that Derrhyn. Assuming you are actually going to play a human character who's age category is "old" (minumum of 53 years old with penalties associated with such) you gain a +2 bonus to int, wis, cha. Replace either find familiar or scribe scroll with the bardic knowledge class ability. Or Take Skill Focus(History or Local) as your extra feat for being human. All that being said, I don't really see a need to give him anything special for choosing to play an old wizened type character. Unless the characters background is from the a large town, he's only really going to know local history and legends - maybe a coupe of facts about the world at large. Small villages and hamlets - the prototypical locations for a character of this background to come from are fairly well isolated and insular - so a vast repository of lore isn't really needed. However, that being said - as long as the player was willing to spend a feat due to background circumstances I would be more than willing to allow him to take either of the history or local knowledge skills (houseruled - with a max rank of 10 at 1st level) and apply the DC checks from the bardic knowledge class ability. DC 10 - Common, known by at least a substantial minority of the local population. DC 20 - Uncommon but available, known by only a few people in the area. With that and the extra skill points from the +2 to int and the multipliers to skill points for being human and 1st level - he should fall somewhere in the middle. With the above changes he could easily be a wise man from a remote village or an old retired book dealer from a big city who had the (mis)fortune to have a cursed spellbook pass through his bookstore before he sold it so he could take care of his wife. Anything more than that however - would be offlimits.
Thindelock 02-22-06, 03:43 PM	Bardic Knowledge really would help out with seeming to be very knowledgeable, as would dumping all (or almost all) your skill ranks into knowledges. Familiar for Bardic Knowledge seems fair. The hedge wizard idea does seem best. He might have even been 2nd or 3rd level at one point, but wrote a lot of scrolls (or brewed a lot of potions, etc). You could always play the "dottering, senile fool" archetype, a la Fizban from the first Dragonlance novel. Might be a fun twist. Maybe he's a 15th-level wizard who took a greatclub to the head and is suffering from amnesia? It'd take some pow-wow-ing with the DM, but could be fun.
interpretivechaos 02-22-06, 09:36 PM	Perhaps he's the librarian of the local library, and has always pursued the arcane, yet never possesed the tome or tutor to learn until now. Another simple method that kind of kids the original intent a bit, but perhaps he studied with elves. In a class. With no option to the human spending his life in the class. He'd spend most of his life with ancient elf mages teaching him the value of patience and the greater theory behind magic. If elves seems a little frivolous or demeaning, perhaps another ancient race (dragons, kalashtar, Outsider's, an enclave of Elan etc.) like this. If he apprenticed himself to any nigh immortal race he would be forced patience as he watched his life grow old, and finally graduate as an old man... Just a thought.
Moosh Nailo 02-23-06, 02:46 PM	Just thought this up. So you're a crazy powerful 20th level wizard. Then, BAM, the Gods feel like smiting you today :D. You either A) Lose most of your memory, so you start low level again, or B) Your mind is "rewound", or sent back in time. Your body is still yucky old, but in you head you're back to your young, naieve, apprentice self.
Spoik 02-24-06, 07:33 AM	You spent your entire life gaining arcane power and studying to become a powerful archmage, until you were ready to challenge the Gods themselves. Unfortunately for you, the Gods kicked your behind. Your power and knowledge, the things you most valued, were stripped from you, and now you are starting all over again, hoping, perhaps to atone for your hubris. I''m actually considering a character at the moment who is really old, and I mean really old, whose sorcerous powers have just emerged spontaneously - something that usually happens to a sorceror at puberty. Now he is caught up in an adventure against his better judgement, and spends must of his time grumbling away in typical crotchety old geezer fashion. Not up to much physically, but pretty unflappable...
miss_bun 02-28-06, 08:58 AM	if u really want to make a wise old duder whos actually been around a bit (instead of a hedge wizard or medicine man,) u could say your character was once a powerful wizard who was trapped in the hells or somewhere and was killed and raised and killed and raised over and over until finally he was laughingly released by the bbeg out into the world. u kept allowing your soul to be raised because u had some super duper important epic task to complete (only by now u cant remember what is,) and the bbeg was willing to let u go since u had basically no power to oppose him, and he wanted to watch u suffer (what with everyone u know having died long ago.) i think it would be a really great, tragic backstory for a character, and u could really go anywhere with it. maybe u take up your old quest once u can figure out what it was, or maybe youre fed up with your god for letting u go thru all that, or whatever. anyway, gl. :D
Malakai_Demonos 02-28-06, 11:04 AM	I resently began a campaign where the PCs had been resurected by a powerful devil, an arch-duke of hell, they do not know which one. The PCs used to be powerful epic level characters who remember very little about there former lives. They remember the base emotions that ruled their lives before their deaths. Such as our Illithid who found out the truth about the elder brains, the fact that they devour your soul when you join with them, check Lords of Madness. The PCs souls had been destroyed or other wise unable to reach by normal means so he specifically made and epic spell to bring them back to this world. Give you any Ideas. Maybe you were slain and your soul destroyed by a more powerful god than you worship. Your god was only able to save an echo of your soul, hense the reason you are an old man and only level 1. And gods care about their non-clerical worshipers, look at Eliminster (spelled wrong I know). Hope this helps.
Vennettai 02-28-06, 01:20 PM	Innomado all that equals gandolf is gay. im not trying to be mean just blunt. i no he wasnt going buy d&d cuase obviously to books were wrote way before. now as for being able to cast light at ninth lvl that would just suck. especially considering the balrog he fought. he would have to either have some serious lvls in fighter or what have you or thoughs balrogs are just not as bad as i thought. i understand him not wanting to enterfear but if he didnt blind the orcs it probly would have went the other way. im also being a smart a$$ sorry
Derrhyn 02-28-06, 02:11 PM	Vennettai. With all due respect, there is no way to compare D&D magic with Tolkiens magic. They are two different creations and the second is completely unnaffected by the first. Also. Nowhere in the LoTR do we get to see hints of Gandalfs real potential. Let me give you two examples: 1.Gandalf participated in the creation of the world. Not one in many as in D&D, but THE world, THE universe. 2. Gandalf is immortal. Even the Valar (Gods) cannot kill Gandalf, that is a trick not even the most powerful D&D wizards can match. And what makes you think the Balrog was so spectacular? The only magic trick he ever produces is to increase and decrease the flames that surrounds him. Producing an orb of light that fends off swords is a lot cooler, at least in my book. You can be as blunt as you want, but at least have the common courtesy to spell his name correctly. Derrhyn
Vennettai 02-28-06, 06:38 PM	gandolf=gay
Gamfallen 02-28-06, 08:15 PM	You can say that he had to train for years and years under a really powerful wizard. His teacher, however hoarded his power and taught his apprentice only the most basic of spells over a very long period of time. Which eventually turns into the classic wizard reason to adventure: gain more power. Hope this helps. :D
Ensjak 03-03-06, 01:28 PM	This is kind of banking off the earlier ideas of the family dying etc. Perhaps he just recently got the opportunity to study magic. Maybe he was a farmer all his life. Grew up near a small village, family recently died from a plague or some type of misfortune. An old man, he's too tired to go on living this same farmer's life by himself (and perhaps too feeble to do it without the aid of his sons who also died from the same disaster). He goes to the local woods to find peace and die (or maybe just to collect some firewood if you don't want to think of him as dejected and depressed) and finds a badly injured man. Unable to save this man, who had been mauled by animals or monsters, he finds an interesting book on his person as well as a few gold coins (a fortune to a humble farmer). It's a spellbook complete with commentary. With the money to live off of for the next few seasons, he begins to study this book and the dead wizard's notes. He began simply to distract himself from the pain of his loss but eventually the challenge of mastering the spells in this book becomes a new reason for living. Eventually he masters some of the basic spells and decides to set out and explore the world beyond the little farm and hamlet which he had never left in his 50 some odd years of life. The best part is, the fact that he found a wizard's spellbook helps explain why he gets those 2 free spells each level without having all the down time to research new spells each level up.
Rudysseus 03-13-06, 02:12 AM	This is sort of running with Miss Bun's idea, but I played a wizard in a campaign that was working to achieve a "save the world" goal, and we lost a battle with the BBEG, and when we actually started playing our characters, they were at level 1, so the idea was basically that we had amnesia, and when we started we were beginning to remember our pasts more clearly. I was the only human in a group of elves and dwarves, so 50 years was really nothing to them, but it made my character an old man, but I went along and as our memories returned, so did our levels. So your character could have been very strong, but you need to work back into it. (a.k.a. gain experience/levels)
Memeep 03-14-06, 12:32 PM	This thread has some great ideas that I find somewhat helpful in creation of a similar character, thankyou. Also a note to the rude Gandalf comments... Whether you believe Gandalf to be heterosexual or homosexual, he was not a human. JRR in the LOTR setting takes his spiritual feelings in the real world and often transfers them into the fantasy setting. This was very much intended. Gandalf is a Christ figure or an angel, depending on your interpretation. He is not a human, and he has no sexual relations with anyone. When people post rude comments on threads with the such and such is "gay" comment, all it does is flag those people as an idiot to the community. I just hope that the person who initialized this thread, which is a very good thread, knows that many of us do look at the immaturity of the interupting posts, and try to overlook them. If someone has an opinion that is different than other posters, the best way of making your point is to make a point. It is not the best choice to resort to "power" words, that give all of us the power to point out an immature person. One should learn how to more effectivly use his or her power of thought and speech. Others are more likely to listen to you opinions if you do this.
Deschain of Gilead 03-17-06, 01:41 AM	It's way too late for me to be up reading threads, but here I am, and I found that this one had a number of interesting development ideas. I particularly like the "been raised a host of times" and the "started adventuring/wizarding late in life b/c I just had the opportunity or found the spellbook" ideas. For what it's worth, I've found the real challenge in playing such *wizened* characters has not been the backstory, but how to get your wisdom/experience/hutzpah across during the game. You essentially need to be able to come out with interesting, obscure, and useful tidbits fairly frequently to preserve this concept. I think the real point is to be able to bust out with an interesting fact about otyugh ecology or the evolution of osquips every so often--being a longtime gamer or a subscription to Dragon should help in that department. As I see it, Gandalf's strength was as an *advisor*, it was his knowledge and understanding of the cosmos around him that made him useful rather than raw power. Which, brings me to my next point. I want to join those in defending Gandalf. No, he doesn't suck, yes it's hard to get a handle on him in D&D. I actually run a game based in the Silmarillion, and it's only b/c my players are Tolkien diehards like myself that we can hammer it out since the magic of Middle Earth--even during epic times like the War of Wrath--is not the flashy stuff that charbroils your enemies that has endeared D&D wizards to all of us. I have no intention of figuring out what Mithrandir's stats or any of the other Istari's stats are, but suffice to say he's got serious street cred, at least in his universe. Baalrogs are the stuff of nightmares (just remember that they're actually macho *Baalors*, as D&D has stolen...ahem, "borrowed," so much from Tolkien), and if you doubt it go pick up the Sil sometime, where you actually get to meet more than one of them. Middle Earth is a dangerous place where the orcs are more than CR 1/2. And, besides, it's an awfully good yarn.
CaptainStrong 03-17-06, 04:25 PM	I saw the title of this thread, and it made me laugh.
annalivvie 03-19-06, 01:53 AM	You could play the character as if he was a great wizard once, probably in his youth. Perhaps he was cursed as someone else mentioned, and lost all his power, abilities, skills, etc, and honestly can't really remember his past. As the story unfolds you can play it as if you are regaining your former strength as a wizard, and use it for great roleplaying, finding out more and more about yourself as time wears own, and about what happened to you in the past.
Gopher 03-22-06, 10:26 AM	gandolf=gay Other posters may be unwilling to stoop to your level. I, however, am not. You are an idiot. Your previous comments have made that emminently clear.