Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Xill-Lord Psionic Might 05-12-05, 09:29 PM	Does anyone have any ideas on how to play a truly mental ill PC without being silly or outright evil. In the real world no evenone (or even most) insane people are evil. So I was wondering how I could play an insane psion/wizard?
Chulanowa 05-12-05, 10:57 PM	Depends on what kind of insanity you're looking for. Bipolar disorder? Psychopathic / Delusional? OCD?
Xill-Lord Psionic Might 05-12-05, 11:55 PM	Bipolar/ manic depressant/ obessessive compulsive
Need_A_Life 05-13-05, 06:57 AM	Laugh without reason... and do it around the table, practice that blood-chilling laugh. It's always fun to believe that all others are inferior to you... and go out of your way to demonstrate it...
Tonymitsu 05-13-05, 03:54 PM	Best way to handle obsessive compulsive is to come up with a personality quirk and follow it without fail. Something that is always fun in a group that doesn't necessarily trust each other would be always wanting to study and examine loot. And then get really defensive and nagging when they won't let you. Fighter: "Hm, an interesting sword." You: "ooh! May I see it?" Fighter: "....why?" You: "Just to examine it." Fighter: "No, I think I'll hold on to this one for a while." You: "Please? I must examine it. I may be able to tell you what it does. What if it has important history? What if..." That's just an example, anything would work really. :) Bipolar tendancies usually run on a cycle so figure out when your highs and lows are and play it day to day. Be extremely excited about something one day and be befriend the cleric by complimenting his/her work and deity. Then the next day just refuse to speak to him (or steal from the collection plate :eek: ) Of course you might want to choose a slightly less debilitating insanity, like just sticking with obesssive compulsive. After all a truly insane person would probably be locked up somewhere, not out adventuring. .....unless that is part of your backstory :D
stealth_monkey 05-15-05, 08:19 AM	Just to nit-pick (or however you spell it) bi-polar disorder and manic depression are one and the same (bi-polar is the new PC term for the latter). Just to go by the textbook I wouldn't suggest bi-polar disorder as a pc condition because frankly it would be rather boring to play. The depression/manic episodes in a sufferer last a LONG time before changing (about a month afaik- i'm not looking it up). So in game terms you'd be lying in bed unable to think of a reason to get up for one campaign and be quite normal (if not super-bouncy) for the next
Purpledragonfire 05-15-05, 09:22 AM	look to the mage in baldurs gate.... twitch alot freak out when people touch you..... light lanturns 3 time when u enter a room (if u dont the demons will escape hell u know). Talk to imaginary friends..... pretend to have multiple personalities.....i had a character in ravenloft that went mad and had multiple personalites can be funny when the buff fighter speaks in a little girls voice and scary when he says why wont u play anymore arnt u my friends anymore after a fight with goblins. have fun with it freak people out
agent_paper 05-15-05, 09:29 AM	Alright, when you say an insane PC, you just mean mentally ill, right? Or do you mean truly dissociated with reality in some way? Just to point out for the purpose of discussion - 'insane' has no actual meaning in diagnostical or psychiatric/psychological terms. In truth, 'insane' is essentially only a legal term. No one is actually insane - legally it means that a person's psychological condition(s) prevent him or her from being able to accurately understand/qualify his/her own decisions and thus cannot be held accountable for them (roughly, anyway). But mentally ill doesn't mean insane. It just means mentally ill (which is itself a very broad and occasionally misleading term). Just thought that might be helpful. Also, stealth_monkey is correct. Manic depression and bipolar disorder are not different disorders but the same thing (manic depression is just an older term for it, bipolar disorder tends to be used more nowadays, such as in the Diagnostical and Statistical Manual). Now, you say you want to play a bipolar/obsessive-compulsive character? Hm. That's difficult - how much information do you want/need on the subject that you don't already have? There are different kinds of each. For instance, there is obssessive compulsive disorder, the Axis I 'neurosis,' and there is also the obsessive compulsive personality disorder. There is also more than one way to be bipolar. What did you have in mind in terms of the character's personality traits? Note that being bipolar doesn't mean that you 'are happy one minute and sad the next' (I'm not saying you thought that, but it's a common oversimplification). Type 1 bipolar disorder tends to involve heavy mania, some people with this disorder have only mania and no depression. Type 2 bipolar disorder tends to be heavier on the depression, with manic episodes typically less severe (hypomania, or just-below normal mania). There is also cyclothymia, which involves both mild mania and mild depression (also called dysthymia). Statistically, men tend to experience more mania, and women more depression, but it's not a rule by any means. Which do you think your character would have? Also note what mania and depression actually are. Many people are not even happy at all while manic. Mania involves racing thoughts, grandiose ideas, extremely excitable emotions, high amounts of energy, sleeplessness, lessened or increased appetite, recklessness, and a change in activity. Euphoric mania involves what appears to be an exaggeratedly good mood - very excited, occasionaly childlike behavior, increased desire for pleasurable activity, and so on. Dysphoric mania may involve tense or irritable behavior, paranoid thoughts, arrogant attitudes, feelings of anger or emotional turmoil, and cynicism. Melancholic depression typically involves low energy, lack of motivation, feelings of fatigue with simultaneous insomnia, general lack of ability to feel pleasure, feelings of emptiness or numbness, disinterest in things the person typically likes, feelings of self-reproach, pessimistic thoughts, and so forth. Atypical depression tends to indicate extreme emotional sensitivity, poor self-image, self-reproach, excessive sleeping, excessive eating, low energy, feelings of bodily heaviness and fatigue, emotional pain and turmoil, etc. Also, many people experience mixed states, in which they effectively experience mania and depression at the same time. Another thing to take into consideration is how often the person 'cycles.' In a 'normal' bipolar cycle, the individual may only have manic or depressive episodes a few times a year, usually lasting weeks to months, sometimes longer. A rapid bipolar disorder involves an episode of some kind perhaps every month; for an ultra-rapid bipolar disorder, the individuals experiences episodes or changes in cycles perhaps every week; and for an ultra-ultra-rapid (called ultradian) cycle, the individual probably experiences more than one episode each day. Does any of this help? As for specific actions, here are some ideas - a person in a manic state may talk or ramble continuously about a topic in a trance-like fashion, as if he or she is perceiving things in a nigh-mystical way. He or she may also believe him/herself to be invincible and ignore danger. There are lot of different aspects to any psychological condition. Perhaps you could provide more details of the character in question? Remember that having a condition, like bipolar disorder, doesn't really make one a 'kook.' Again, not implying that you said that or anything . . . For the most part, bipolar people are pretty much just like everyone else in terms of their grip on reality, so to speak. Some people have very severe episodes in which they experience psychoses, like delusions and hallucinations, but that is not as common. And none of that touches the obsessive-compulsive part . . .
stealth_monkey 05-15-05, 09:39 AM	heh, i guess someone actually did bother to pull out their DSM ;)
Mr. Leet 05-15-05, 07:09 PM	Would a character with a mental disorder have a low wisdom score? Or shouldn't wisdom be affected by mental disorders?
stealth_monkey 05-15-05, 07:56 PM	Would a character with a mental disorder have a low wisdom score? Or shouldn't wisdom be affected by mental disorders? It all depends on the disorder, but as a rule of thumb, i'd say that yes, wisdom would be lowered while the character was under the effects of their disorder
Mr. Leet 05-16-05, 07:26 AM	It all depends on the disorder, but as a rule of thumb, i'd say that yes, wisdom would be lowered while the character was under the effects of their disorder How much would you suggest that the wisdom score is lowered by? A point or two, or stripped down to "No chance of making will saves" low? It would probably depend on the characters type of mental disorder, but could you give me an example? For example, if I had a character that carried around his dead mother's skull and talked to it as if it was alive, how much would that "cost" on his wisdom? I know this character sounds crazy, and he is. I'm planning on playing him on an NWN server I'm part of building :)
stealth_monkey 05-16-05, 10:18 AM	How much would you suggest that the wisdom score is lowered by? A point or two, or stripped down to "No chance of making will saves" low? It would probably depend on the characters type of mental disorder, but could you give me an example? For example, if I had a character that carried around his dead mother's skull and talked to it as if it was alive, how much would that "cost" on his wisdom? I know this character sounds crazy, and he is. I'm planning on playing him on an NWN server I'm part of building :) Hmm, to be honest I don't think it would be translatable to nwn. In your example i'd personally rule as a gm (not that I'd allow a pc to have a disorder in my games) that the pc would take maybe a -4 or 5 penalty to will saves to resist illusion effects that actually play on his delusions. For example, if the evil gnome illusionist makes the character think his mother is speaking back. I don't think a constant wisdom drop would really fit any disorder mild enough to actually be played, i would really only suggest very specific circumstances Edited for clarity
Shar_Narishma 05-16-05, 07:59 PM	i fairly simple, yet often considered evil, way of playing an insane character is to see things a bit differently... an example could be... a party member is the key for some ancient ritual/is needed by the "bad guys" so that they can do something evil. they make constant attempts to capture the party, and you dont like having to deal with them. THe answer most PC's would come up with would be to A) run away, or B) kill the evil people... but you decide that secret answer C) would be best, and simpler... secret answer C) would be to kill the "key pc" so that the evil doers wont have any reason to bother you, and it may not be nice, but it keeps said evil doers from doing the evil ritual. a good ay to play insane is simply thinking in a way that most people would find... well... insane. also, just act suspicious about everyone, especially the exalted saint of X-diety of healing, and protection. everyone is your enemy, though everyone is your friend. While you are in the middle of a plan, you decide that it bores you and you walk away, or even in the middle of a battle. do things that dont seem sane, and dont let your party expect an answer from your either. you do things case you felt like it, or the fuzzy creatures in your head told you to do this, and if you didnt, they woulda nawed on your brain untill you died... also they woulda attack the spleen... they like the spleen... just do things that are odd, and it works.
Mr. Leet 05-17-05, 05:03 PM	Hmm, to be honest I don't think it would be translatable to nwn. In your example i'd personally rule as a gm (not that I'd allow a pc to have a disorder in my games) that the pc would take maybe a -4 or 5 penalty to will saves to resist illusion effects that actually play on his delusions. For example, if the evil gnome illusionist makes the character think his mother is speaking back. I don't think a constant wisdom drop would really fit any disorder mild enough to actually be played, i would really only suggest very specific circumstances Edited for clarity Thanks for your advice. I guess I should ask my DMs on how they want to handle it.