is this guy evil? [Archive] - Wizards Community

is this guy evil? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
horse
01-11-04, 09:26 PM okay, so i'm starting up with an evil campaign next semester, but i'm not sure if my character's evil enough. i'm playing an elven ranger/fighter whose forest village was burned down by greedy humans when he was young. now, he's determined to kill anyone who harms nature, especially humans. for example, if he's walking along & happens upon somebody cutting down a tree, that somebody will probably die within the next 5 minutes.

is this guy evil? let me rephrase that. is this guy evil enough? it's like he's evil for a good cause. if anybody has any suggestons on how to make him more evil, or if you think he's already evil enough, please let me know.

note: the character's already built, & the DM has the character sheet, so please don't offer build tips. i'm looking for storyline stuff & things that i could have him do to make him more evil.
He Who Is
01-11-04, 09:33 PM I like my evil with a long range plan. Your evil is too shortsighted for me.

If your evil is determined to protect nature, then have his goal be the proactive elimination of those that would defile nature. Kill off every race except the elves. Include women and most importantly children. They should also suffer for their crimes (even if they haven't committed a crime yet. It's only a matter of time), so torture is a must, if possible.
Illithidbix
01-11-04, 09:51 PM Why?
You're playing a Nature loving, human-hating psychopath who commits murder out of an obsession and vengeance arising from being horribly traumatised by a childhood incident, that's a cool enough character concept, why ruin it by trying to conform within the parameters of some stupid little alignment descriptor?

Very few people who openly acknowledge that what they do is evil and commit the acts because they’re evil, most simply don’t care that some people would call what they do evil, however many believe they are actually doing the right think.
Evil committed for a “good cause” is often by far the most horrific since people get the whole “rigorous zeal” and are prepared to sacrifice their own interests for the cause, think of the Nazi’s, they were convinced that the genocides, political purges and wars they committed were good of mankind (well the Germanic people, who were the only bit of mankind worth considering)

Personally I think an “Evil Campaign” is not a particularly good idea, not if everyone tries to be evil (as defined by the PHB and BoVD) rather than playing a group of well thought-out characters (who incidentally are all nutters or complete bastards).
Lanoitakude
01-12-04, 01:18 AM Your character design is good as it is, because it is partially neutral it seems. Nice thing about neutral people, they can fit in with most anyone.

Also, your backstory kinda sounds similar to the one I am using for my current druid, check out the Druid Character Background thread on this forum for some possible inspiration.

Don't worry too much about what is written above that little line that says "alignment" on your character sheet. If your backstory and concept are well thought out and executed, your alignment will make itself known.

I suggest just call yourself "neutral", and let your actions speak for themselves. Your DM may say "I have watched your actions, they suggest that your alignment would be XY for the following reasons...."
Trydan
01-12-04, 05:21 AM I agree that evil campaigns are really tough. Within no time the group starts bickering. I agree with "He Who Is"; the evil needs to be long term.

Oh, and make it borderline neutral-evil. Nature loving is neutral, but humans are nature too, just a run-away branch of natural selection, that has done well for itself. Killing a tree-cutter is evil, and is not restoring any balance at all. Especially if it was a consciensious forester who was replanting as he went along.
Henchcritter
01-12-04, 09:23 AM It's a good concept :thumbsup:. I really hate those standart child raping stereotype. Forget the BBEG from the smurfs. In real life, most evilguys don't consider themselves evil, so why should the usual D&D badguy. Self-righteous is a real evil trait.

A poor peasant chops down a tree, to feed his family and dies. This regardless of the number of trees still in the forest. Let's face it, a bit of chopping doesn't harm the forest. But your character ius self-appointed judge jury and executioner. Definitely evil.
He Who Is
01-12-04, 06:32 PM I said to torture children, not rape them.
Henchcritter
01-12-04, 06:35 PM Originally posted by He Who Is
I said to torture children, not rape them. I didn't want to take personal shots at you.
Kickbutt_nancy
01-12-04, 07:38 PM Actions determine your alignment.

Yes this character is evil, but evil campaign consist of a little more than just killing lumberjacks, if your character will not go beyond that he probably needs to be more "evil doing".
He Who Is
01-12-04, 09:53 PM Originally posted by Henchcritter
I didn't want to take personal shots at you.

You can take two.
Lord of the Ninth
01-13-04, 12:13 AM Your BG is good, but if you want to be more evil (maybe your baby-eating compatriots are making fun of you ;) ), I recomend that you step it up from psychotic protectionism to full-on ecoterrorism. Here's how:

1) Choose an enemy. Preferably one that has committed some terrible crime in your eyes (built a city in land that was once a forest for example).

2) Purge the impurities. This is best done through fire and magic, although if you can pull off a thing where the city is stormed by Treants and animated trees this is better.

3) Reclaim. This the part where the animated trees take root or you plant new ones. Essentially you attempt to return the location to its former state (even if it wasn't a forest).

4) Wash rinse and repeat.

Nota Bene: You can gain party suport by creating opurtunities to Murder, Loot, Pillage, and Burn (and remember kids: "Always pillage before you burn")

Have fun. :cool:
He Who Is
01-13-04, 08:35 AM Originally posted by Lord of the Ninth
(and remember kids: "Always pillage before you burn")

I knew I was doing it wrong!
Tzor
01-13-04, 12:44 PM Originally posted by horse
now, he's determined to kill anyone who harms nature, especially humans. for example, if he's walking along & happens upon somebody cutting down a tree, that somebody will probably die within the next 5 minutes. ... is this guy evil?

Based on the description alone, I can say with confidence that if he isn't evil, he will eventually be evil. It's only a matter of time.

If a man goes into a forest and chops down a tree, that tree is dead. There is nothing that can be done after the fact. There is no "raise tree" spell or "restore tree." A dead tree, is a dead tree, and that's about it.

My point is that as far as the forest is concerned, assuming the forest can be concerned in the first place, is to keep the tree from being cut in the first place. Justice, even revenge is something that would be alien to a forest. Thus killing humans after the fact only satisfys the human's senses of revenge and justice, not the forest. This is a self centered nature and a stepping stone on the path of evil.

The good person would prevent the cutting from the first place, if he cutting did occur, the real question is how can it be prevented again. Killing doesn't actually solve the problem, because there are always more ignorant humans. In addition, people tend to kill people who kill people. And people who are out to kill other people often do not have the best interests of the forest at heart.
Lord of the Ninth
01-13-04, 09:33 PM You ever heard of a lumberjack who only cut down one tree? You aren't necessarily avenging the felled tree (you might be), but the bulk of the plan ought to be preventing the deaths of other trees by the hand of this proven tree-butcher (gotta love those Politically Correct Bedtime Stories).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
horse 01-11-04, 09:26 PM	okay, so i'm starting up with an evil campaign next semester, but i'm not sure if my character's evil enough. i'm playing an elven ranger/fighter whose forest village was burned down by greedy humans when he was young. now, he's determined to kill anyone who harms nature, especially humans. for example, if he's walking along & happens upon somebody cutting down a tree, that somebody will probably die within the next 5 minutes. is this guy evil? let me rephrase that. is this guy evil enough? it's like he's evil for a good cause. if anybody has any suggestons on how to make him more evil, or if you think he's already evil enough, please let me know. note: the character's already built, & the DM has the character sheet, so please don't offer build tips. i'm looking for storyline stuff & things that i could have him do to make him more evil.
He Who Is 01-11-04, 09:33 PM	I like my evil with a long range plan. Your evil is too shortsighted for me. If your evil is determined to protect nature, then have his goal be the proactive elimination of those that would defile nature. Kill off every race except the elves. Include women and most importantly children. They should also suffer for their crimes (even if they haven't committed a crime yet. It's only a matter of time), so torture is a must, if possible.
Illithidbix 01-11-04, 09:51 PM	Why? You're playing a Nature loving, human-hating psychopath who commits murder out of an obsession and vengeance arising from being horribly traumatised by a childhood incident, that's a cool enough character concept, why ruin it by trying to conform within the parameters of some stupid little alignment descriptor? Very few people who openly acknowledge that what they do is evil and commit the acts because they’re evil, most simply don’t care that some people would call what they do evil, however many believe they are actually doing the right think. Evil committed for a “good cause” is often by far the most horrific since people get the whole “rigorous zeal” and are prepared to sacrifice their own interests for the cause, think of the Nazi’s, they were convinced that the genocides, political purges and wars they committed were good of mankind (well the Germanic people, who were the only bit of mankind worth considering) Personally I think an “Evil Campaign” is not a particularly good idea, not if everyone tries to be evil (as defined by the PHB and BoVD) rather than playing a group of well thought-out characters (who incidentally are all nutters or complete bastards).
Lanoitakude 01-12-04, 01:18 AM	Your character design is good as it is, because it is partially neutral it seems. Nice thing about neutral people, they can fit in with most anyone. Also, your backstory kinda sounds similar to the one I am using for my current druid, check out the Druid Character Background thread on this forum for some possible inspiration. Don't worry too much about what is written above that little line that says "alignment" on your character sheet. If your backstory and concept are well thought out and executed, your alignment will make itself known. I suggest just call yourself "neutral", and let your actions speak for themselves. Your DM may say "I have watched your actions, they suggest that your alignment would be XY for the following reasons...."
Trydan 01-12-04, 05:21 AM	I agree that evil campaigns are really tough. Within no time the group starts bickering. I agree with "He Who Is"; the evil needs to be long term. Oh, and make it borderline neutral-evil. Nature loving is neutral, but humans are nature too, just a run-away branch of natural selection, that has done well for itself. Killing a tree-cutter is evil, and is not restoring any balance at all. Especially if it was a consciensious forester who was replanting as he went along.
Henchcritter 01-12-04, 09:23 AM	It's a good concept :thumbsup:. I really hate those standart child raping stereotype. Forget the BBEG from the smurfs. In real life, most evilguys don't consider themselves evil, so why should the usual D&D badguy. Self-righteous is a real evil trait. A poor peasant chops down a tree, to feed his family and dies. This regardless of the number of trees still in the forest. Let's face it, a bit of chopping doesn't harm the forest. But your character ius self-appointed judge jury and executioner. Definitely evil.
He Who Is 01-12-04, 06:32 PM	I said to torture children, not rape them.
Henchcritter 01-12-04, 06:35 PM	Originally posted by He Who Is I said to torture children, not rape them. I didn't want to take personal shots at you.
Kickbutt_nancy 01-12-04, 07:38 PM	Actions determine your alignment. Yes this character is evil, but evil campaign consist of a little more than just killing lumberjacks, if your character will not go beyond that he probably needs to be more "evil doing".
He Who Is 01-12-04, 09:53 PM	Originally posted by Henchcritter I didn't want to take personal shots at you. You can take two.
Lord of the Ninth 01-13-04, 12:13 AM	Your BG is good, but if you want to be more evil (maybe your baby-eating compatriots are making fun of you ;) ), I recomend that you step it up from psychotic protectionism to full-on ecoterrorism. Here's how: 1) Choose an enemy. Preferably one that has committed some terrible crime in your eyes (built a city in land that was once a forest for example). 2) Purge the impurities. This is best done through fire and magic, although if you can pull off a thing where the city is stormed by Treants and animated trees this is better. 3) Reclaim. This the part where the animated trees take root or you plant new ones. Essentially you attempt to return the location to its former state (even if it wasn't a forest). 4) Wash rinse and repeat. Nota Bene: You can gain party suport by creating opurtunities to Murder, Loot, Pillage, and Burn (and remember kids: "Always pillage before you burn") Have fun. :cool:
He Who Is 01-13-04, 08:35 AM	Originally posted by Lord of the Ninth (and remember kids: "Always pillage before you burn") I knew I was doing it wrong!
Tzor 01-13-04, 12:44 PM	Originally posted by horse now, he's determined to kill anyone who harms nature, especially humans. for example, if he's walking along & happens upon somebody cutting down a tree, that somebody will probably die within the next 5 minutes. ... is this guy evil? Based on the description alone, I can say with confidence that if he isn't evil, he will eventually be evil. It's only a matter of time. If a man goes into a forest and chops down a tree, that tree is dead. There is nothing that can be done after the fact. There is no "raise tree" spell or "restore tree." A dead tree, is a dead tree, and that's about it. My point is that as far as the forest is concerned, assuming the forest can be concerned in the first place, is to keep the tree from being cut in the first place. Justice, even revenge is something that would be alien to a forest. Thus killing humans after the fact only satisfys the human's senses of revenge and justice, not the forest. This is a self centered nature and a stepping stone on the path of evil. The good person would prevent the cutting from the first place, if he cutting did occur, the real question is how can it be prevented again. Killing doesn't actually solve the problem, because there are always more ignorant humans. In addition, people tend to kill people who kill people. And people who are out to kill other people often do not have the best interests of the forest at heart.
Lord of the Ninth 01-13-04, 09:33 PM	You ever heard of a lumberjack who only cut down one tree? You aren't necessarily avenging the felled tree (you might be), but the bulk of the plan ought to be preventing the deaths of other trees by the hand of this proven tree-butcher (gotta love those Politically Correct Bedtime Stories).