Killing for the Good of it. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Killing for the Good of it. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
nintenndo
05-24-07, 01:57 AM Need ideas for a good rogues guild and what there morals would be. How to spread their name the right way. What kind of jobs they should look for.

I currently just started playing in a campaign focused on roleplaying. The DM told us that we were a group of friends that have known each other for 2 years and have decided to start a adventuring group. The campaign pretty much is secluded inside a city. I chose to play a Rat Hybrid that is a sort of assassin. Also, is a artist of sorts. Liking to paint on walls instead of canvas.

My idea that I would like peoples add ons to was....
Start a underground group named the White Rats. A group devoted to doing things necessary to make the world go round. The killings, thievery, and low life things that nobles would not want to do, but have others do for them. The catch is though that it must follow my moral compass of good and just.

Examples of what I am talking about. In this campaign magic is not widely used. A noble was caught using magic to further her vineyards production, which is against laws and regulations. I was hired to burn down her crops.

I need ideas of how to spread through a city by low life ways or noble ways my group. To spread that I am not a killer for hire but a right doer.

I was also thinking that it would be a great idea to find a way for others to contact me but not really meet me. I know disguise is a way of dong this but I was trying to think of a message system or something.

Since, I am a tagger thinking I could chalk a little white rat on a wall or somewhere to show who did it. I understand that if anyone ever found out I would be linked to all of the things that I have done. I am hoping that never happens or the guards look the other way seeing it my way.

Thank you all in advance and happy gaming.
Gingerbread Guy
05-24-07, 03:46 AM Hi there,

Hey, this is great stuff. Kudos for wanting to put together something beyond just a single character. I love it when players show initative like this, and I hope your DM appreciates it as well.

Committing acts that seem evil, for the ultimate benefit of good is a tricky and slippery slope. People who hold these hazy codes of conduct often like to hold more cut-and-dry rules as well, such as never harming women or children, or some other group or class that they particular respect. Maybe you always tithe a certain portion of what you steal or earn from a hit to a church, or hand it out to the poor like Robin Hood. Still, no matter how well you justify your actions, there will always be people who disagree. Keeping a reputation that matches your intentions is going to take a lot of foresight.

The key to maintaining good standing with the public is to make sure that you never appear to pose a threat to your average citizen. Only accept jobs that deal with people who won't be missed, or those who "have it coming" and everyone knows it. This usually means officially sanctioned bounties, but it could mean the obviously corrupt or the like. If you know someone is evil, but you can't prove it, killing them is going to look like a random murder, and the public will have every reason to fear you. That = bad.

As for the people in power, you can stay on their good side by leaving them alone, or going after their enemies. Even if you break the law, so long as your actions are actually beneficial to the powers that be, you can probably expect some very half-hearted attempts at your capture.

If the powers that be are themselves evil, what you have here is the start of a revolution. Your job will be to reveal the corrupt for what they really are by stealing information and making it accessible to the public. When you have the people riled up, you'll be able to take more aggressive actions against those in power. You may even be able to chose a more good-aligned replacement and form an alliance of sorts. Fund your revolution by stealing money and valuables that the corrupt shouldn't have in the first place: its very difficult for a corrupt magistrate to report the theft of money he's been siphoning off the city's taxes.

Keeping yourself hidden will be difficult, but possible. Ranks in Craft: Forgery will help with falsifying identification and other important documents, allowing you to operate under an alias even when you aren't acting as a White Rat. Ranks in Handle Animal will allow you to train a pet rat to fetch messages that contacts can leave for you in secret locations, like a crack in an alley wall, down an abandoned sewer grate, or among the roots of an old tree. Your enemies will have a hard time interrogating an ordinary rat, or following it through holes in the wall on its way back to your lair.

~Ginger
nintenndo
05-24-07, 09:11 PM Thank you very much for the quick and insightful reply. I could tell as soon as the idea poped into my head how difficult it was going to be to keep my name clean and not seem "Evil." That is why I have posted at all.

Seems in the first session that we have played already that there is a corrupt noble (like they all are) and it need to be brought to the attention of the other members of nobility and city guards. I need ot find info on them and blow their sweet cover. I have already made contact with another noble that knows bits of her cover and bad deeds. It is a good beggining to my cause and should be a good starting point for the White Rats.

I really liked the pet rat idea. Never really even thought in that direction. Silly for me not to with some of my past charater rangers loving hawk training and the like. Seems to fit in very well.

I also had thought of leaving notes in a crack in the wall. Was thinking, since I am a tagger to tag a Rat on the wall with its mouth being a crack in the wall. Leaving notes in that kind of thing. Or even somehow investigating the sewers looking for a crack in a wall near the ground that could be excavated into the sewer. Where I could later get my note or job later.

Seems I need to find a "bigger" cause other than just rooting out corruption. Maybe for church or getting a "Good" ruler inot office. Just flying solow or with my group will make us less like good guys for the people but more like doing what we think is right. Hmm....lots of interesting things to dwell on.

Thank you again. Plaese more insight.
Apupunchau
05-24-07, 09:24 PM You are effectively a vigilante but you have to decide what type of vigilante you are. You can be the jolly swashbuckler type of vigilante like Robin Hood build up a strong base of loyal followers and rob from the rich to feed the poor. You can be the dark vigilante, think batman, and both the public and the evil doers will fear you but that fear will help you get your job done.

I'm not sure what your game world is like but maybe their is an old religion that the people follow that the ruling class has outlawed that you can be a champion of. And as was stated before having some hard and fast rules of what you won't do (like batman doesn't kill his enemies it's against his code) along with some areas of gray to move in and out of is a good idea.

Maybe you have your very own commissioner Gordon some one on the inside of the law who can help you bring those seemingly above the law to justice.
Moosh Nailo
05-25-07, 12:34 AM Nice title ;) Sounds like you've got a pretty solid game plan. To expand on the rat idea, I'd suggest having more than one. Seeing as they are basically not a combat issue, I don't see why your DM would possibly disallow it. (An old DM of mine said no more than one handle-animal skill companion :s) They could bring messages back to your base-camp from all over the city with little or no delay. And I like the idea of the messages being left in the tag's mouth, is cool. Consider taking a single level of sorcerer or wizard, for access to a few communication spells and nabbing a more powerful rat companion.

As for the sniffing out corruption bit, beef up bluff and intimidate. I find these to be much more useful than simply diplomacy. As someone mentioned, use intimidate for a batman-style effect.

You looked at the Avenging Executioner PrC from Complete Scoundrel? Don't know if it's too combat oriented for you or not, but it's got great style. You should definitely check it out.
Terjon of the Blue Rose
05-25-07, 12:38 AM A good aligned rogue is always fun but take a lesson from Oliddimara's laughing knives. You don't have to kill or destroy to hurt... especially a noble. Try instead public humiliation.

Take for example this noble who used magic on their vineyard. Yeah you could burn them down but wouldn't it hurt them more if you say... magically turned all the grapes into pumpkins. Imagine pumpkin clusters growing on lattices and wineries filled with the same. The noble is going to be destroyed; a laughing stock. What's more you haven't physically harmed anyone and everyone knows both what you did and what he did to deserve it. The same can be done for most minor infractions and as for big ones... well lets just say it isn't bad to kill someone if your defending an innocent when you do it.

I suspect your character would leave his mark only a scenes of humiliation so the people see only his light side. Darker actions such as killing a villian off or burning down buildings would be left with a different mark. This creates two persona for you, one public and the other private. Using a mark on minor acts of vandalism and practical jokes makes for a great cover for more visous acts.
nintenndo
05-25-07, 07:21 PM Really great stuff. I am not at home at the moment but I will defiantely look into complete scoundrel for Avenging Executioner. I have not read through yet, so I will take a look.

I really like a batman/robin hood mixture. I do not want to intimidate really due to the fact I want to stay really undercover in doing this. I do not really want anyone in the city, world, or anyone at all to know that it is me doing these good/bad deeds. A character kinda thing I have is going to be that I ma actually shy face to face. Straight to business but in acutal conversation I kinda lay back and let someone else in my party speak.

I have been thinking about giving my gold not to neccesery poor people in general, but finding a group or kid that needs help and helping him. Giving him gold and items that will help him grow up and maybe one day become a member of the White rats.

Does anyone know about rats? I know weird question but what do you think I could teach a rat to do without magical means? Could I teach him to go through a crack and grab a note that is placed on the opposite side of the street in a wall. To then bring it right back to me throught the same crack? Basically a fetch trick but could I teach a rat to do that? Just wondering.
Apupunchau
05-25-07, 07:43 PM Rats are actually pretty bright but in game terms you can teach them tricks according to their intelligence I suggest checking out the Handle Animal Skill for a list of things animals can be taught.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
nintenndo 05-24-07, 01:57 AM	Need ideas for a good rogues guild and what there morals would be. How to spread their name the right way. What kind of jobs they should look for. I currently just started playing in a campaign focused on roleplaying. The DM told us that we were a group of friends that have known each other for 2 years and have decided to start a adventuring group. The campaign pretty much is secluded inside a city. I chose to play a Rat Hybrid that is a sort of assassin. Also, is a artist of sorts. Liking to paint on walls instead of canvas. My idea that I would like peoples add ons to was.... Start a underground group named the White Rats. A group devoted to doing things necessary to make the world go round. The killings, thievery, and low life things that nobles would not want to do, but have others do for them. The catch is though that it must follow my moral compass of good and just. Examples of what I am talking about. In this campaign magic is not widely used. A noble was caught using magic to further her vineyards production, which is against laws and regulations. I was hired to burn down her crops. I need ideas of how to spread through a city by low life ways or noble ways my group. To spread that I am not a killer for hire but a right doer. I was also thinking that it would be a great idea to find a way for others to contact me but not really meet me. I know disguise is a way of dong this but I was trying to think of a message system or something. Since, I am a tagger thinking I could chalk a little white rat on a wall or somewhere to show who did it. I understand that if anyone ever found out I would be linked to all of the things that I have done. I am hoping that never happens or the guards look the other way seeing it my way. Thank you all in advance and happy gaming.
Gingerbread Guy 05-24-07, 03:46 AM	Hi there, Hey, this is great stuff. Kudos for wanting to put together something beyond just a single character. I love it when players show initative like this, and I hope your DM appreciates it as well. Committing acts that seem evil, for the ultimate benefit of good is a tricky and slippery slope. People who hold these hazy codes of conduct often like to hold more cut-and-dry rules as well, such as never harming women or children, or some other group or class that they particular respect. Maybe you always tithe a certain portion of what you steal or earn from a hit to a church, or hand it out to the poor like Robin Hood. Still, no matter how well you justify your actions, there will always be people who disagree. Keeping a reputation that matches your intentions is going to take a lot of foresight. The key to maintaining good standing with the public is to make sure that you never appear to pose a threat to your average citizen. Only accept jobs that deal with people who won't be missed, or those who "have it coming" and everyone knows it. This usually means officially sanctioned bounties, but it could mean the obviously corrupt or the like. If you know someone is evil, but you can't prove it, killing them is going to look like a random murder, and the public will have every reason to fear you. That = bad. As for the people in power, you can stay on their good side by leaving them alone, or going after their enemies. Even if you break the law, so long as your actions are actually beneficial to the powers that be, you can probably expect some very half-hearted attempts at your capture. If the powers that be are themselves evil, what you have here is the start of a revolution. Your job will be to reveal the corrupt for what they really are by stealing information and making it accessible to the public. When you have the people riled up, you'll be able to take more aggressive actions against those in power. You may even be able to chose a more good-aligned replacement and form an alliance of sorts. Fund your revolution by stealing money and valuables that the corrupt shouldn't have in the first place: its very difficult for a corrupt magistrate to report the theft of money he's been siphoning off the city's taxes. Keeping yourself hidden will be difficult, but possible. Ranks in Craft: Forgery will help with falsifying identification and other important documents, allowing you to operate under an alias even when you aren't acting as a White Rat. Ranks in Handle Animal will allow you to train a pet rat to fetch messages that contacts can leave for you in secret locations, like a crack in an alley wall, down an abandoned sewer grate, or among the roots of an old tree. Your enemies will have a hard time interrogating an ordinary rat, or following it through holes in the wall on its way back to your lair. ~Ginger
nintenndo 05-24-07, 09:11 PM	Thank you very much for the quick and insightful reply. I could tell as soon as the idea poped into my head how difficult it was going to be to keep my name clean and not seem "Evil." That is why I have posted at all. Seems in the first session that we have played already that there is a corrupt noble (like they all are) and it need to be brought to the attention of the other members of nobility and city guards. I need ot find info on them and blow their sweet cover. I have already made contact with another noble that knows bits of her cover and bad deeds. It is a good beggining to my cause and should be a good starting point for the White Rats. I really liked the pet rat idea. Never really even thought in that direction. Silly for me not to with some of my past charater rangers loving hawk training and the like. Seems to fit in very well. I also had thought of leaving notes in a crack in the wall. Was thinking, since I am a tagger to tag a Rat on the wall with its mouth being a crack in the wall. Leaving notes in that kind of thing. Or even somehow investigating the sewers looking for a crack in a wall near the ground that could be excavated into the sewer. Where I could later get my note or job later. Seems I need to find a "bigger" cause other than just rooting out corruption. Maybe for church or getting a "Good" ruler inot office. Just flying solow or with my group will make us less like good guys for the people but more like doing what we think is right. Hmm....lots of interesting things to dwell on. Thank you again. Plaese more insight.
Apupunchau 05-24-07, 09:24 PM	You are effectively a vigilante but you have to decide what type of vigilante you are. You can be the jolly swashbuckler type of vigilante like Robin Hood build up a strong base of loyal followers and rob from the rich to feed the poor. You can be the dark vigilante, think batman, and both the public and the evil doers will fear you but that fear will help you get your job done. I'm not sure what your game world is like but maybe their is an old religion that the people follow that the ruling class has outlawed that you can be a champion of. And as was stated before having some hard and fast rules of what you won't do (like batman doesn't kill his enemies it's against his code) along with some areas of gray to move in and out of is a good idea. Maybe you have your very own commissioner Gordon some one on the inside of the law who can help you bring those seemingly above the law to justice.
Moosh Nailo 05-25-07, 12:34 AM	Nice title ;) Sounds like you've got a pretty solid game plan. To expand on the rat idea, I'd suggest having more than one. Seeing as they are basically not a combat issue, I don't see why your DM would possibly disallow it. (An old DM of mine said no more than one handle-animal skill companion :s) They could bring messages back to your base-camp from all over the city with little or no delay. And I like the idea of the messages being left in the tag's mouth, is cool. Consider taking a single level of sorcerer or wizard, for access to a few communication spells and nabbing a more powerful rat companion. As for the sniffing out corruption bit, beef up bluff and intimidate. I find these to be much more useful than simply diplomacy. As someone mentioned, use intimidate for a batman-style effect. You looked at the Avenging Executioner PrC from Complete Scoundrel? Don't know if it's too combat oriented for you or not, but it's got great style. You should definitely check it out.
Terjon of the Blue Rose 05-25-07, 12:38 AM	A good aligned rogue is always fun but take a lesson from Oliddimara's laughing knives. You don't have to kill or destroy to hurt... especially a noble. Try instead public humiliation. Take for example this noble who used magic on their vineyard. Yeah you could burn them down but wouldn't it hurt them more if you say... magically turned all the grapes into pumpkins. Imagine pumpkin clusters growing on lattices and wineries filled with the same. The noble is going to be destroyed; a laughing stock. What's more you haven't physically harmed anyone and everyone knows both what you did and what he did to deserve it. The same can be done for most minor infractions and as for big ones... well lets just say it isn't bad to kill someone if your defending an innocent when you do it. I suspect your character would leave his mark only a scenes of humiliation so the people see only his light side. Darker actions such as killing a villian off or burning down buildings would be left with a different mark. This creates two persona for you, one public and the other private. Using a mark on minor acts of vandalism and practical jokes makes for a great cover for more visous acts.
nintenndo 05-25-07, 07:21 PM	Really great stuff. I am not at home at the moment but I will defiantely look into complete scoundrel for Avenging Executioner. I have not read through yet, so I will take a look. I really like a batman/robin hood mixture. I do not want to intimidate really due to the fact I want to stay really undercover in doing this. I do not really want anyone in the city, world, or anyone at all to know that it is me doing these good/bad deeds. A character kinda thing I have is going to be that I ma actually shy face to face. Straight to business but in acutal conversation I kinda lay back and let someone else in my party speak. I have been thinking about giving my gold not to neccesery poor people in general, but finding a group or kid that needs help and helping him. Giving him gold and items that will help him grow up and maybe one day become a member of the White rats. Does anyone know about rats? I know weird question but what do you think I could teach a rat to do without magical means? Could I teach him to go through a crack and grab a note that is placed on the opposite side of the street in a wall. To then bring it right back to me throught the same crack? Basically a fetch trick but could I teach a rat to do that? Just wondering.
Apupunchau 05-25-07, 07:43 PM	Rats are actually pretty bright but in game terms you can teach them tricks according to their intelligence I suggest checking out the Handle Animal Skill for a list of things animals can be taught.