Killing Mind Flayers for fun & profit [Archive] - Wizards Community

Killing Mind Flayers for fun & profit [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
DarthDave
02-16-07, 06:51 PM Role-playing is a family thing- my wife, brother, and best friends play in the Eberron Campaign Setting. I'll DM a group of four 4th level adventurers. The group has all agreed to become Illithid Slayers, while one person wonders if an Exorcist of the Silver Flame might be equally flavorful with less focus on psionics. My wife has the least amount of experience, so she chose her character first- a Kalashtar Ranger2/Soulknife2.

Here lies my problem. All four of the players want to play one of the four races from Eberron; specifically, these races include a Kalashtar, Warforged (Psiforged), Changeling, and Shifter. Our group has spent two weeks debating how to make this group come together based on how their probable classes will work. They see the light at the end of the tunnel, and want to become Illithid Slayers (PrC from XPH), but how did they get there? I'd appreciate feedback- this is what I'm preparred to advise my group:

Kalashtar ranger/soulknife makes sense, since kalashtar yeild natural power point reserves, without my wife needing to know a bunch about psionics. Done.

Psiforged Psychic Warrior (I haven't calculated the skills as class skills to meet the PrC requirments. Everyone has agreed to take the Track feat unless otherwise taking Ranger levels). This seems pretty straight forward.

Shifter wants to play a Barbarian/Wilder (using Wilder racial substitution levels). This seems okay, but the Charisma and Intelligence penalties and multiclassing experience investments seem strange, as does Barbarian/any psionic class. Thoughts?

The Changeling player has no clue where to go. She thought about being an egoist/paladin. Wow...ummm...I need some feedback and help here, because I don't know how to guide the player in their choices.

We fully intend to kill an illithid within the role-playing game- this won't be outside information just because we ramped-up to 4th level. All Eberron books for 3.5 edition are open. Talk to me about flavour. I like the kalashtar and psi-forged (I haven't seen the psiforged character sheet, so I will have to wait and see how this was done), but am looking for feedback about how to get a changeling and shifter each a Track feat and at least four ranks of dungeoneering. The BAB requirement will come, I think.
Adrian_Crane
02-16-07, 09:02 PM but am looking for feedback about how to get a changeling and shifter each a Track feat and at least four ranks of dungeoneering. The BAB requirement will come, I think.
For that part, check the CharOp forums next door. They're good at the mechanical aspects.

For flavor...well, good motivation for the Changeling and Shifter might be the thought of someone losing their mind. After all, that's the only constant to shifting races, it's the very essence of the self when your outward form warps and alters. Therefor it'd stand to reason that Illithids are abominations to be destroyed.
DarthDave
02-16-07, 10:03 PM As far as the PrC prerequisites, they should be fairly standard. I don't need optimization per se, I just need the characters to have certain feats and skills at or about the same time for general equality. For example, playing a non-kalashtar, non-psionic character will make it very hard to be able generate the required power point reserve needed to be an Illithid Slayer.

I confess that both player and DM are having a hard time planning a route of progression for the Changeling. Does anyone see how a Changeling fits as an Exorcist of the Silver Flame? The Shifter player had thought it'd be a good idea for his character, ripe with irony. We agreed that as a group, this idea merits consideration, but this ironic Shifter doesn't make for an easier Mind Flayer Slayer.

Since I posted, a telephone conversation from the Changeling suggested that she could still be a slayer of illithids, but not just like the actual CLASS. I like the freedom this might allow (read: Exorcist of Silver Flame, maybe?), but is it now fair to the rest of the group to change the direction of their goals by allowing her to skip the prestige class?

----
I guess I was really looking for a way to envision a pretty intense group of Eberron races (that HAD to have the Track feat and some ranks in dungeoneering) that would be more flavorful than everyone taking Ranger 1/psionic class x/Illithid Slayer. The "WHY" of the gathering seems self-explanatory. Again, I don't think the characters are looking at optimization- they know they have to meet certain requirements, but beyond that, they want to know what that progression could entail.
TwoPi
02-16-07, 11:09 PM ANother question, is it fair to that player to be forced into something that is 1) not going to be easy to play 2) not what they want. SInce it is a game about building things you want to play, I would say that you dont have to have the class to kill the mind flayer, I mean who doesnt want to kill the creppy buggers?
Doomed_Penguin
02-19-07, 04:10 PM I think it's fair for the Changeling to be something other than an Illithid Slayer. It's not so much class choices as character background/roleplay that makes this Illithid Slayer concept work. Since you're DM, I would suggest starting the characters as just-escaped slaves running from their fairly new Illithid masters. They were all taken from their homes by Illithid raids anywere from 5 years to 3 months ago, and subjected to slavery by their captors. This makes them all hate Illithids, gives them all a reason to be together, but also describes why they aren't all going into the prestige class (It just doesn't fit the Changeling's beliefs.). I mean, the Changeling may hate Illithids now, but his/her entire personality isn't based on a hate of Illithids. He/she wasn't brought up to hate Illithids, and maybe even hadn't had any experience with psionics before this. The Changeling was just raised in the church of the silver flame or whatever, and while the Illithid incident may have affected him/her, it isn't who he/she is. The Changeling is still, first and foremost, a follower of the silver flame.
Singer_of_the_Song
02-20-07, 04:06 PM Mind Flayers are not the type to allow themselves to be killed for fun & profit. You might surprise and slay a few (although they'd still be a tough battle) but after only a couple of killings you are going to find very, very powerful forces mobilized against you.
psilontech
02-20-07, 07:51 PM I'm sorry, this has absolutely NOTHING to do with the topic, but I just saw that episode of DS9 with "Oomox, for Fun & Profit".

Yeah, I'm sorry, I just caught a reference, done on purpose or not. I'll be going now /Re-Lurks, cheezy Romulan cloaking shimmer
DarthDave
02-20-07, 09:59 PM Mind Flayers are not the type to allow themselves to be killed for fun & profit. You might surprise and slay a few (although they'd still be a tough battle) but after only a couple of killings you are going to find very, very powerful forces mobilized against you.

This makes advancing charactewrs more difficult and equally rewarding, with higher forces against them. The "fun & profit" line is not the actual intent- it's a (somewhat) popular line (see the post above this one). The players liked the idea of psionic characters & the new races Eberron offers. An Illithid Slayer PrC- a PrC that actually suggests group play of the same kind of PrC- sounded like a fun theme they would want. As more time is going into it, and as the Changeling player stalls out without some direction, the idea may be as dead as the mind flayers the group would like to kill. The Kalashtar would rather now play an illithid-killin' Atavist instead. Makes sense, since Manifester levels would be lost on her regardless as an illithid slayer.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DarthDave 02-16-07, 06:51 PM	Role-playing is a family thing- my wife, brother, and best friends play in the Eberron Campaign Setting. I'll DM a group of four 4th level adventurers. The group has all agreed to become Illithid Slayers, while one person wonders if an Exorcist of the Silver Flame might be equally flavorful with less focus on psionics. My wife has the least amount of experience, so she chose her character first- a Kalashtar Ranger2/Soulknife2. Here lies my problem. All four of the players want to play one of the four races from Eberron; specifically, these races include a Kalashtar, Warforged (Psiforged), Changeling, and Shifter. Our group has spent two weeks debating how to make this group come together based on how their probable classes will work. They see the light at the end of the tunnel, and want to become Illithid Slayers (PrC from XPH), but how did they get there? I'd appreciate feedback- this is what I'm preparred to advise my group: Kalashtar ranger/soulknife makes sense, since kalashtar yeild natural power point reserves, without my wife needing to know a bunch about psionics. Done. Psiforged Psychic Warrior (I haven't calculated the skills as class skills to meet the PrC requirments. Everyone has agreed to take the Track feat unless otherwise taking Ranger levels). This seems pretty straight forward. Shifter wants to play a Barbarian/Wilder (using Wilder racial substitution levels). This seems okay, but the Charisma and Intelligence penalties and multiclassing experience investments seem strange, as does Barbarian/any psionic class. Thoughts? The Changeling player has no clue where to go. She thought about being an egoist/paladin. Wow...ummm...I need some feedback and help here, because I don't know how to guide the player in their choices. We fully intend to kill an illithid within the role-playing game- this won't be outside information just because we ramped-up to 4th level. All Eberron books for 3.5 edition are open. Talk to me about flavour. I like the kalashtar and psi-forged (I haven't seen the psiforged character sheet, so I will have to wait and see how this was done), but am looking for feedback about how to get a changeling and shifter each a Track feat and at least four ranks of dungeoneering. The BAB requirement will come, I think.
Adrian_Crane 02-16-07, 09:02 PM	but am looking for feedback about how to get a changeling and shifter each a Track feat and at least four ranks of dungeoneering. The BAB requirement will come, I think. For that part, check the CharOp forums next door. They're good at the mechanical aspects. For flavor...well, good motivation for the Changeling and Shifter might be the thought of someone losing their mind. After all, that's the only constant to shifting races, it's the very essence of the self when your outward form warps and alters. Therefor it'd stand to reason that Illithids are abominations to be destroyed.
DarthDave 02-16-07, 10:03 PM	As far as the PrC prerequisites, they should be fairly standard. I don't need optimization per se, I just need the characters to have certain feats and skills at or about the same time for general equality. For example, playing a non-kalashtar, non-psionic character will make it very hard to be able generate the required power point reserve needed to be an Illithid Slayer. I confess that both player and DM are having a hard time planning a route of progression for the Changeling. Does anyone see how a Changeling fits as an Exorcist of the Silver Flame? The Shifter player had thought it'd be a good idea for his character, ripe with irony. We agreed that as a group, this idea merits consideration, but this ironic Shifter doesn't make for an easier Mind Flayer Slayer. Since I posted, a telephone conversation from the Changeling suggested that she could still be a slayer of illithids, but not just like the actual CLASS. I like the freedom this might allow (read: Exorcist of Silver Flame, maybe?), but is it now fair to the rest of the group to change the direction of their goals by allowing her to skip the prestige class? ---- I guess I was really looking for a way to envision a pretty intense group of Eberron races (that HAD to have the Track feat and some ranks in dungeoneering) that would be more flavorful than everyone taking Ranger 1/psionic class x/Illithid Slayer. The "WHY" of the gathering seems self-explanatory. Again, I don't think the characters are looking at optimization- they know they have to meet certain requirements, but beyond that, they want to know what that progression could entail.
TwoPi 02-16-07, 11:09 PM	ANother question, is it fair to that player to be forced into something that is 1) not going to be easy to play 2) not what they want. SInce it is a game about building things you want to play, I would say that you dont have to have the class to kill the mind flayer, I mean who doesnt want to kill the creppy buggers?
Doomed_Penguin 02-19-07, 04:10 PM	I think it's fair for the Changeling to be something other than an Illithid Slayer. It's not so much class choices as character background/roleplay that makes this Illithid Slayer concept work. Since you're DM, I would suggest starting the characters as just-escaped slaves running from their fairly new Illithid masters. They were all taken from their homes by Illithid raids anywere from 5 years to 3 months ago, and subjected to slavery by their captors. This makes them all hate Illithids, gives them all a reason to be together, but also describes why they aren't all going into the prestige class (It just doesn't fit the Changeling's beliefs.). I mean, the Changeling may hate Illithids now, but his/her entire personality isn't based on a hate of Illithids. He/she wasn't brought up to hate Illithids, and maybe even hadn't had any experience with psionics before this. The Changeling was just raised in the church of the silver flame or whatever, and while the Illithid incident may have affected him/her, it isn't who he/she is. The Changeling is still, first and foremost, a follower of the silver flame.
Singer_of_the_Song 02-20-07, 04:06 PM	Mind Flayers are not the type to allow themselves to be killed for fun & profit. You might surprise and slay a few (although they'd still be a tough battle) but after only a couple of killings you are going to find very, very powerful forces mobilized against you.
psilontech 02-20-07, 07:51 PM	I'm sorry, this has absolutely NOTHING to do with the topic, but I just saw that episode of DS9 with "Oomox, for Fun & Profit". Yeah, I'm sorry, I just caught a reference, done on purpose or not. I'll be going now /Re-Lurks, cheezy Romulan cloaking shimmer
DarthDave 02-20-07, 09:59 PM	Mind Flayers are not the type to allow themselves to be killed for fun & profit. You might surprise and slay a few (although they'd still be a tough battle) but after only a couple of killings you are going to find very, very powerful forces mobilized against you. This makes advancing charactewrs more difficult and equally rewarding, with higher forces against them. The "fun & profit" line is not the actual intent- it's a (somewhat) popular line (see the post above this one). The players liked the idea of psionic characters & the new races Eberron offers. An Illithid Slayer PrC- a PrC that actually suggests group play of the same kind of PrC- sounded like a fun theme they would want. As more time is going into it, and as the Changeling player stalls out without some direction, the idea may be as dead as the mind flayers the group would like to kill. The Kalashtar would rather now play an illithid-killin' Atavist instead. Makes sense, since Manifester levels would be lost on her regardless as an illithid slayer.