Lawful Evil Paladin Code of Conduct [Archive] - Wizards Community

Lawful Evil Paladin Code of Conduct [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
LiXinjian
08-01-05, 02:46 PM I am playing a paladin of tyranny variant from Unearthed Arcana, and find myself in need to develop a code of conduct for his paladin order.

As a follower of Bane, this character must promote tyranny and hatred, but at the same time, I feel he should have a strict code that represents his "elevation" above the common villain who kills and steals with little regard or second thoughts.

I have already decided that his code precludes him from striking at helpless and/or defenseless foes (particularly if they were rendered helpless through a spell cast by a friend, like Deep Slumber or Command).

He cannot cheat, and his word, once given, cannot be taken back. As a result, he's very cautious about giving it. Like a Baatezu, however, if he can find and exploit a loophole, he will. I think he should be very twisted and cold-hearted in this regard.

I am considering the idea that he cannot lie either. However, as an evil person living (for now) in Cormyr where he hopes to stir up all kinds of trouble, that sounds like a very bad idea. He is not yet strong enough to display his evil ways.

What else could he be forced to abide to? Any input would be greatly appreciated.
DBoot
08-01-05, 03:35 PM I have a character named Felix who cannot lie. He is not a bad man, though he has a dodgy past. This may seem like a problem, but if you're a good enough roleplayer it actually becomes advantageous. Omission, misleading statements, half truths and semantic games are all tools of the trade. There is a diffrence between being truthful and being honest. Don't be afraid to try it out. It's great fun once you've got the hang of it.
Leewei
08-01-05, 03:49 PM Some ethics to consider:

-Only the strong should lead. It is your holy duty to usurp a commander if you perceive him as being weak or otherwise unworthy. If a commander is strong, he is to be obeyed to the death.

-Tolerate no insubordination. If an underling fails to obey you, either by unwillingness or incompetance, punishment must be swift and harsh -- but not lethal, unless the act was outright mutinous.

-Complacency breeds weakness. If you have vanquished your rival, you must find another, until all have fallen before you. Your commanders and followers are exempt from this, but all others are potential rivals.

-The weak only exist to be dominated. Take what you will from them and make them do your bidding. If they are no longer useful, dispose of them.

-Hatred is strength. Despise your enemies, and bring those you lead to do so as well.

-Honor your word and your alliances, but be certain to use them to your best benefit. Only a fool squanders his army for another -- and foolishness is a weakness.
LiXinjian
08-01-05, 04:20 PM Yes, indeed, there could be some fun in playing a character who can't lie. Thank you for opening my eyes to that, Dboot.

I would gladly play the hatred part to the bone, except my character risks sounding a lot like the emperor in Star Wars with all that crazy talk about using his hatred to become stronger. I'd have to find a really unique edge to it. The infuriating part about it is that, in time, hatred WILL make my character stronger - his prestige class will grant him access to the Hatred domain, and the +2 to hit, +2 to AC and +2 to saves vs. one opponent granted power that comes along with it. So it's a shame to let this roleplaying element pass me by.
DBoot
08-01-05, 06:56 PM I would approach the hatred angle as follows

1. Make my enemies succomb to hatred, for themselves, for their allies and for me. But not just any hatred. A blind, raging hatred is best. It empowers my enemies, but also makes them short sighted and dull. This is my advantage

2. I, in return hate my enemies. But in my case it is a cold hatred. It gives me focus, not power. Though I hate my enemy, I do not underestimate him. Though I hate my enemy, I recognize his strengths as much as his weaknesses. I learn from both, so that I am less vulnerable to him, and so that he is more vulnerable to me.

3. Those who are not my enemies must not hate me. Hate is, after all, what breeds the enemy. No, they must instead fear me and be made to hate my enemy.
Bullet-proof Monk
08-02-05, 12:54 AM I would aswell attach a stipulation to his code. In that the code only applies to the worthy. As such, commoners(farmer, tailor, stables master,ect...)are beneath his code. They are tools to be used, or lessers to be dominated and/or destroyed.

I also like the idea of a : gentlemanly code of behavior which he practices while in the presence of the fairer sex(ladies). Ladies would include nobles & females of refinement. Common females(bar wench, farmer, seamstress,ect..)are unworthy of his code & serve only as tools to be manipulated, used or destroyed.
Uberwoot
08-02-05, 12:18 PM I love this thread.

In combination with one other thread (which I've misplaced), this thread provides all the best elements of a code of conduct for tyrant-style characters.

<3 DBoot + Leewei
Nicholas the Paladin
08-03-05, 01:11 PM A character that I think is a perfect example of a fallen-paladin, is Lord Soth (Dragonlance 2nd edition, maybe they converted it to 3rd also).

He still clings to his old principles, but twists them towards evil.
Like when fighting an opponent. He first unhorses him, then dismounts himself ( knightly conduct). He faces his opponent eye to eye, but eventually blasts him with a Powerword Kill.

In other words, he *mocks* the LG code of conduct....this could be a good lead for you.
LiXinjian
08-03-05, 08:19 PM indeed...

food for thoughts, food for thoughts. Thanks for the pointer.
Roboradish
08-08-05, 07:07 PM -Don't kill for fun, only when necessary or useful.

-No killing children.
Morka
08-09-05, 10:16 AM -No killing children.

...but physical correction is a good way to make them learn things.
Callista
08-09-05, 10:35 AM I am considering the idea that he cannot lie either. However, as an evil person living (for now) in Cormyr where he hopes to stir up all kinds of trouble, that sounds like a very bad idea. He is not yet strong enough to display his evil ways.
"Cannot lie" can easily be on his code of conduct; that doesn't mean he can't deceive, though. For example, he takes a prisoner under the terms that he will not harm the prisoner. That doesn't mean, however, that he can't get his companions to torture/kill the guy. That sort of thing. Follow the letter of the law, and twist it to your own meaning--all the while believing that you are totally honorable.

You'll want to flesh out the "Evil" part of his code of conduct, as well. Generally, the way I see Evil characters is that it makes much more sense for them (especially LE types) to commit Evil in the pursuit of a greater (not necessarily evil) plan or goal. This guy is Lawful, so he's part of an order or organization, right? So put the goals of that organization on his code of conduct. I.e., he vows never to betray them, to follow orders, to pursue (insert goals here) to the exclusion of all other loyalties. That doesn't necessarily sound evil to begin with; but the fact that he and his organization are likely evil, it means he can, and is required to, do anything (within the bounds of LE-style honor) he needs to to back them up. All it takes to be LE is to put a single goal above the rights of others; so reflect that in your Code.

Frankly, I'd find it easier to play someone dedicated to Good than to Evil; because Evil for its own sake doesn't make as much sense as Good for its own sake. When you're Evil, you have to have some goal that you're willing to do anything to pursue; when you're Good, then doing good is a goal in itself. Not realizing this often results in rather flat Evil-aligned characters, since it doesn't make much sense to play a villain without a purpose in life.

Blackguards are absolutely cool... Paladin of Tyranny, which I haven't seen played yet, can't be much different, so I'm willing to hazard a guess that they're just as cool :)

Anyhow, good luck!
Cam S.
08-10-05, 02:12 PM How about he shows respect to those who stand against him, even if he knows he could easily kill them? If an opponent faces him boldly, then your character could face them as an honorable combatant. Any opponent, though, who attempts to run away or hide, has forfeited their life.
LiXinjian
08-11-05, 12:16 PM Honor
With honor comes respect. When respect is coupled with power, it becomes the ultimate expression of tyranny and authority. A Black Paladin of Bane believes in these tenets, and does not dishonor himself by

- Using poisons to weaken his enemies
- striking at helpless or defenseless foes
- cheating
- lying (although he can speak half truths or use omissions, misleading statements and semantics freely to exploit loopholes)

Duty
The path of the black paladin is not an easy one. Only the most dedicated followers can forgo themselves in true service to the Black Lord, the one true master of all that exists. The black paladin seeks to serve and fear his lord first, and have others serve and fear himself second. In this matter of true service, the paladin will find unquestionable authority over all because of his close allegiance to Bane.

To achieve this a paladin of Bane must

- protect true followers of the Black Hand
- collaborate with other followers of Bane to further the cause of tyranny everywhere
- strike fear into the hearts of his enemies, in the name of Bane
- respect authority figures as long as they have the strength to rule over the weak
- act with discipline (not engaging in random slaughter, keeping firm control over those beneath his station, and so forth)
- help only those who help him maintain or improve his status
- punish those who challenge authority (unless, of course, such challengers prove more worthy to hold that authority)
[most of this has been taken straight from the code given in Unearthed Arcana]

Weapons
The Black Paladins have a few weapons at their disposal to ensure that their enemies are defeated.

Fear.
Fear makes your enemies weak. It makes reason falter, and turns the strongest sword arm into a limp and useless thing. Fear keeps your enemies at bay, and your subjects in line. Fear makes friends turn on each other, and fathers betray their sons. Make your enemies fear you, and they will be easily vanquished.

Hatred.
Cold hatred is your tool. It fuels you, drives you to excel. Hot, senseless hatred makes your enemies blind and careless; it lures them into your trap, leads them to make mistakes. Hatred, when properly used, can divide your enemies, and make them turn on each other. When focused, it can drive an entire nation to battle. Manipulate hatred wisely, and so will you manipulate your enemies.

Law.
Law binds the hands of the most dedicated enemy. The laws of men can be exploited to give you shelter from your enemies or to rid yourself of one. Laws can place an elusive enemy at your mercy, and place the strength of a nation at your disposal. Law is never an end into itself, but a tool in your hand. Respect law, and remember that even the most lawless opponent is bound by them in one way or another. If you can find the laws binding your enemy, you have taken a great step in vanquishing him.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
LiXinjian 08-01-05, 02:46 PM	I am playing a paladin of tyranny variant from Unearthed Arcana, and find myself in need to develop a code of conduct for his paladin order. As a follower of Bane, this character must promote tyranny and hatred, but at the same time, I feel he should have a strict code that represents his "elevation" above the common villain who kills and steals with little regard or second thoughts. I have already decided that his code precludes him from striking at helpless and/or defenseless foes (particularly if they were rendered helpless through a spell cast by a friend, like Deep Slumber or Command). He cannot cheat, and his word, once given, cannot be taken back. As a result, he's very cautious about giving it. Like a Baatezu, however, if he can find and exploit a loophole, he will. I think he should be very twisted and cold-hearted in this regard. I am considering the idea that he cannot lie either. However, as an evil person living (for now) in Cormyr where he hopes to stir up all kinds of trouble, that sounds like a very bad idea. He is not yet strong enough to display his evil ways. What else could he be forced to abide to? Any input would be greatly appreciated.
DBoot 08-01-05, 03:35 PM	I have a character named Felix who cannot lie. He is not a bad man, though he has a dodgy past. This may seem like a problem, but if you're a good enough roleplayer it actually becomes advantageous. Omission, misleading statements, half truths and semantic games are all tools of the trade. There is a diffrence between being truthful and being honest. Don't be afraid to try it out. It's great fun once you've got the hang of it.
Leewei 08-01-05, 03:49 PM	Some ethics to consider: -Only the strong should lead. It is your holy duty to usurp a commander if you perceive him as being weak or otherwise unworthy. If a commander is strong, he is to be obeyed to the death. -Tolerate no insubordination. If an underling fails to obey you, either by unwillingness or incompetance, punishment must be swift and harsh -- but not lethal, unless the act was outright mutinous. -Complacency breeds weakness. If you have vanquished your rival, you must find another, until all have fallen before you. Your commanders and followers are exempt from this, but all others are potential rivals. -The weak only exist to be dominated. Take what you will from them and make them do your bidding. If they are no longer useful, dispose of them. -Hatred is strength. Despise your enemies, and bring those you lead to do so as well. -Honor your word and your alliances, but be certain to use them to your best benefit. Only a fool squanders his army for another -- and foolishness is a weakness.
LiXinjian 08-01-05, 04:20 PM	Yes, indeed, there could be some fun in playing a character who can't lie. Thank you for opening my eyes to that, Dboot. I would gladly play the hatred part to the bone, except my character risks sounding a lot like the emperor in Star Wars with all that crazy talk about using his hatred to become stronger. I'd have to find a really unique edge to it. The infuriating part about it is that, in time, hatred WILL make my character stronger - his prestige class will grant him access to the Hatred domain, and the +2 to hit, +2 to AC and +2 to saves vs. one opponent granted power that comes along with it. So it's a shame to let this roleplaying element pass me by.
DBoot 08-01-05, 06:56 PM	I would approach the hatred angle as follows 1. Make my enemies succomb to hatred, for themselves, for their allies and for me. But not just any hatred. A blind, raging hatred is best. It empowers my enemies, but also makes them short sighted and dull. This is my advantage 2. I, in return hate my enemies. But in my case it is a cold hatred. It gives me focus, not power. Though I hate my enemy, I do not underestimate him. Though I hate my enemy, I recognize his strengths as much as his weaknesses. I learn from both, so that I am less vulnerable to him, and so that he is more vulnerable to me. 3. Those who are not my enemies must not hate me. Hate is, after all, what breeds the enemy. No, they must instead fear me and be made to hate my enemy.
Bullet-proof Monk 08-02-05, 12:54 AM	I would aswell attach a stipulation to his code. In that the code only applies to the worthy. As such, commoners(farmer, tailor, stables master,ect...)are beneath his code. They are tools to be used, or lessers to be dominated and/or destroyed. I also like the idea of a : gentlemanly code of behavior which he practices while in the presence of the fairer sex(ladies). Ladies would include nobles & females of refinement. Common females(bar wench, farmer, seamstress,ect..)are unworthy of his code & serve only as tools to be manipulated, used or destroyed.
Uberwoot 08-02-05, 12:18 PM	I love this thread. In combination with one other thread (which I've misplaced), this thread provides all the best elements of a code of conduct for tyrant-style characters. <3 DBoot + Leewei
Nicholas the Paladin 08-03-05, 01:11 PM	A character that I think is a perfect example of a fallen-paladin, is Lord Soth (Dragonlance 2nd edition, maybe they converted it to 3rd also). He still clings to his old principles, but twists them towards evil. Like when fighting an opponent. He first unhorses him, then dismounts himself ( knightly conduct). He faces his opponent eye to eye, but eventually blasts him with a Powerword Kill. In other words, he mocks the LG code of conduct....this could be a good lead for you.
LiXinjian 08-03-05, 08:19 PM	indeed... food for thoughts, food for thoughts. Thanks for the pointer.
Roboradish 08-08-05, 07:07 PM	-Don't kill for fun, only when necessary or useful. -No killing children.
Morka 08-09-05, 10:16 AM	-No killing children. ...but physical correction is a good way to make them learn things.
Callista 08-09-05, 10:35 AM	I am considering the idea that he cannot lie either. However, as an evil person living (for now) in Cormyr where he hopes to stir up all kinds of trouble, that sounds like a very bad idea. He is not yet strong enough to display his evil ways. "Cannot lie" can easily be on his code of conduct; that doesn't mean he can't deceive, though. For example, he takes a prisoner under the terms that he will not harm the prisoner. That doesn't mean, however, that he can't get his companions to torture/kill the guy. That sort of thing. Follow the letter of the law, and twist it to your own meaning--all the while believing that you are totally honorable. You'll want to flesh out the "Evil" part of his code of conduct, as well. Generally, the way I see Evil characters is that it makes much more sense for them (especially LE types) to commit Evil in the pursuit of a greater (not necessarily evil) plan or goal. This guy is Lawful, so he's part of an order or organization, right? So put the goals of that organization on his code of conduct. I.e., he vows never to betray them, to follow orders, to pursue (insert goals here) to the exclusion of all other loyalties. That doesn't necessarily sound evil to begin with; but the fact that he and his organization are likely evil, it means he can, and is required to, do anything (within the bounds of LE-style honor) he needs to to back them up. All it takes to be LE is to put a single goal above the rights of others; so reflect that in your Code. Frankly, I'd find it easier to play someone dedicated to Good than to Evil; because Evil for its own sake doesn't make as much sense as Good for its own sake. When you're Evil, you have to have some goal that you're willing to do anything to pursue; when you're Good, then doing good is a goal in itself. Not realizing this often results in rather flat Evil-aligned characters, since it doesn't make much sense to play a villain without a purpose in life. Blackguards are absolutely cool... Paladin of Tyranny, which I haven't seen played yet, can't be much different, so I'm willing to hazard a guess that they're just as cool :) Anyhow, good luck!
Cam S. 08-10-05, 02:12 PM	How about he shows respect to those who stand against him, even if he knows he could easily kill them? If an opponent faces him boldly, then your character could face them as an honorable combatant. Any opponent, though, who attempts to run away or hide, has forfeited their life.
LiXinjian 08-11-05, 12:16 PM	Honor With honor comes respect. When respect is coupled with power, it becomes the ultimate expression of tyranny and authority. A Black Paladin of Bane believes in these tenets, and does not dishonor himself by - Using poisons to weaken his enemies - striking at helpless or defenseless foes - cheating - lying (although he can speak half truths or use omissions, misleading statements and semantics freely to exploit loopholes) Duty The path of the black paladin is not an easy one. Only the most dedicated followers can forgo themselves in true service to the Black Lord, the one true master of all that exists. The black paladin seeks to serve and fear his lord first, and have others serve and fear himself second. In this matter of true service, the paladin will find unquestionable authority over all because of his close allegiance to Bane. To achieve this a paladin of Bane must - protect true followers of the Black Hand - collaborate with other followers of Bane to further the cause of tyranny everywhere - strike fear into the hearts of his enemies, in the name of Bane - respect authority figures as long as they have the strength to rule over the weak - act with discipline (not engaging in random slaughter, keeping firm control over those beneath his station, and so forth) - help only those who help him maintain or improve his status - punish those who challenge authority (unless, of course, such challengers prove more worthy to hold that authority) [most of this has been taken straight from the code given in Unearthed Arcana] Weapons The Black Paladins have a few weapons at their disposal to ensure that their enemies are defeated. Fear. Fear makes your enemies weak. It makes reason falter, and turns the strongest sword arm into a limp and useless thing. Fear keeps your enemies at bay, and your subjects in line. Fear makes friends turn on each other, and fathers betray their sons. Make your enemies fear you, and they will be easily vanquished. Hatred. Cold hatred is your tool. It fuels you, drives you to excel. Hot, senseless hatred makes your enemies blind and careless; it lures them into your trap, leads them to make mistakes. Hatred, when properly used, can divide your enemies, and make them turn on each other. When focused, it can drive an entire nation to battle. Manipulate hatred wisely, and so will you manipulate your enemies. Law. Law binds the hands of the most dedicated enemy. The laws of men can be exploited to give you shelter from your enemies or to rid yourself of one. Laws can place an elusive enemy at your mercy, and place the strength of a nation at your disposal. Law is never an end into itself, but a tool in your hand. Respect law, and remember that even the most lawless opponent is bound by them in one way or another. If you can find the laws binding your enemy, you have taken a great step in vanquishing him.