Lawful Evil with a Hero Complex [Archive] - Wizards Community

Lawful Evil with a Hero Complex [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Avanter
05-25-07, 09:10 PM so, I was thinking of a friendly way to be a LE character.. if there is one.. so what about someone with a hero complex.. such as starting fires to put them out... that sort of thing?

any ideas.. I as thinking of a LE knight or samurai.
Gingerbread Guy
05-25-07, 10:31 PM Evil doesn't always have to be extreme. A person who simply has little to no difficulty killing when its convenient rather than just necessary can easily be defined as evil. In that respect you could play a character who does what he feels are heroic things, but without the limitations and boundaries that most typical heroes would respect.

Such a character might pursue dead-or-alive bounties, for example, figuring that there is profit to be had doing work thats normally to morally dirty for your standard adventurer to stomach. He may even get a bit of a kick out of killing, but wether he admits that to others or even himself is another matter.

It would be tricky to cause crimes in secret only to stop them yourself for both the reward and the glory, as there would be a significant risk of being found out and losing everything. Perhaps this is something your character might consider doing if he has no other outlet for his amoral desires, but I think an intelligent character would consider it an act of desperation.

I think it would be fun to play him as a charismatic knight with a solid understanding of manners and courtesy, but who simply lacks the moral compass that tells him killing is wrong. Having him do work that is essentially "good", such as eliminating criminals and defeating other evil beings that threaten innocents would make him seem like a typical hero.. but anyone witnessing the way he kills without remorse (and perhaps with a little bit of pleasure) would be in for a chilling surprise.

If anyone calls him on it, he can easily bring their own sins to bear against them. How is the paladin who lays waste to a tribe of orcs any better than the orcs themselves? The paladin is just a mortal who's rigidly chosen one side of an endless struggle. To your character, it just isn't that simple.

As a knight, perhaps your character feels no remorse for his actions, so long as he obeys his code. As long as he follows the rules of engagement, he's in the right... right?

As another, darker idea, I think a charismatic Samurai/Rogue and levels in something more horrific like the Avenging Executioner class (complete scoundrel) would make for a very complex character - one who, as a member of a noble class, maybe lacks compassion out of belief that others are inherently inferior and undeserving of pitty. Lots of charisma will help with your ki-smite, and help you talk your way out of trouble (since "appallingly rude behaviour" is considered a breach of the code of Bushido you'll have to explain yourself a lot).

~Ginger
qxe9898
05-27-07, 08:13 PM A friendly LE character...

By definition, a lawful character prefers to "play be the rules", either because the rules are good or the rules can be used as an effective shield for oneself.

By definition, an evil character puts his own wants/needs/pleasures before those of other people. A chaotic evil person does this by bullying; a lawful neutral person does this by exchanging favors (you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours--maybe!); a lawful evil person does it by manipulation, bribery or blackmail.

Someone with a hero complex needs constant affirmation of his worth--he does good deeds for attention. Alternatively, he may feel compelled to do good to make up for a past mistake. The former interpretation makes better sense if being charismatic is involved.

So a LE charismatic character with a hero complex might look like this: he is insecure, either because he was constantly belittled as a child or he actually is sub-par (as heroes go). He was always doing things to be popular--volunteering to help anyone and everyone (but not doing a very good job of it, either due to incompetence or a short attention span), spending time trying to look handsome or being funny at parties, etc. In his desperation for acceptance, he fell in with a gang that taught him the less savory lessons of life.

Adventurers were both a source of admiration and anger--he wanted to have the ability to "go off on his own" like them (but knew he'd fail), yet he resented them getting all the accolades every time they rode into town.

A traumatic event happened, which forced your character into the hero's role--and he suceeded in saving the day! Armed with some confidence, he now adventures--but not for the good of others or out of patriotism. He adventures (mostly) for attention. He hogs the limelight whenever he can; while he praises others for their contributions, he always (subtly) makes it clear that the success was due to him. Of course he rarely breaks the rules--after all, he wouldn't want anyone accusing him of "stealing" the glory. As a matter of fact, he still needs to be part of respectable society, because it is the approval of these people that he craves.

Maybe you don't think this guy's all that evil--but consider this. He will be the first to go on a low-risk quest (or one that is morally questionable) if it will get a lot of 'good press.' But he will balk at a risky quest with little chance of resultant acclaim. Any Paladin in the party is going to have a hard time accepting such behavior...
Terjon of the Blue Rose
05-27-07, 11:51 PM Ginger's idea can even be taken one step farther. Play a sociopath. Your character has no concept of right and wrong. He knows he can't make these judgements for himself and moreover has no desire to. Still with a little intelligence and an even halfway decent wisdom he can decide for himself that rather than attempting to do what is right he will follow the law exactly.

Law as written becomes his holy grail and he uses it as fully as he can to his advantage. Such a person views anything that can be done within the scope of the law as acceptable and any violation as sacrilege. If the law makes whoring illegal he may physically stop women from commiting this crime. If theft is illegal he may be more than willing to cut the hands off someone stealing bread to feed his starving family. And just as importantly look at what isn't illegal. If only certain drugs are illegal he may well deal in every other brand stopping and bringing in worse ones once his become illegal. If theft is illegal but purchasing stolen goods isn't he likely deals heavily in black market goods (though he is more than willing to turn in a thief he himself hired). If he can find any legal loophole for what he is doing he will exploit it.
Alex_Belinsky
05-28-07, 02:28 PM Another idea - very similar to some real-world samurai.
Way of the warrior means death. Your hero strive to be best warrior and so admire those who are superior warriors. All warriors must behave in accord with some CoC - your hero treat damsels with respect/ help to uphold the law/ know poetry well/ respect legal authority etc. etc. But he also is ready to sacrifice his own life for "the Worthy Cause" (tm). :) And he also look down on those "cowards", who is not warrior.
But if his own's life is so cheap, how much cost life of those lesser people?
So he (even without sociopathic tendencies, without bloodlust) become reasonable, thinking, cold-blooded killer.
He may be greedy or generous, charming (with equals and code-defined as equals) or moody, scheming or honest (as per CoC) but he is LE.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Avanter 05-25-07, 09:10 PM	so, I was thinking of a friendly way to be a LE character.. if there is one.. so what about someone with a hero complex.. such as starting fires to put them out... that sort of thing? any ideas.. I as thinking of a LE knight or samurai.
Gingerbread Guy 05-25-07, 10:31 PM	Evil doesn't always have to be extreme. A person who simply has little to no difficulty killing when its convenient rather than just necessary can easily be defined as evil. In that respect you could play a character who does what he feels are heroic things, but without the limitations and boundaries that most typical heroes would respect. Such a character might pursue dead-or-alive bounties, for example, figuring that there is profit to be had doing work thats normally to morally dirty for your standard adventurer to stomach. He may even get a bit of a kick out of killing, but wether he admits that to others or even himself is another matter. It would be tricky to cause crimes in secret only to stop them yourself for both the reward and the glory, as there would be a significant risk of being found out and losing everything. Perhaps this is something your character might consider doing if he has no other outlet for his amoral desires, but I think an intelligent character would consider it an act of desperation. I think it would be fun to play him as a charismatic knight with a solid understanding of manners and courtesy, but who simply lacks the moral compass that tells him killing is wrong. Having him do work that is essentially "good", such as eliminating criminals and defeating other evil beings that threaten innocents would make him seem like a typical hero.. but anyone witnessing the way he kills without remorse (and perhaps with a little bit of pleasure) would be in for a chilling surprise. If anyone calls him on it, he can easily bring their own sins to bear against them. How is the paladin who lays waste to a tribe of orcs any better than the orcs themselves? The paladin is just a mortal who's rigidly chosen one side of an endless struggle. To your character, it just isn't that simple. As a knight, perhaps your character feels no remorse for his actions, so long as he obeys his code. As long as he follows the rules of engagement, he's in the right... right? As another, darker idea, I think a charismatic Samurai/Rogue and levels in something more horrific like the Avenging Executioner class (complete scoundrel) would make for a very complex character - one who, as a member of a noble class, maybe lacks compassion out of belief that others are inherently inferior and undeserving of pitty. Lots of charisma will help with your ki-smite, and help you talk your way out of trouble (since "appallingly rude behaviour" is considered a breach of the code of Bushido you'll have to explain yourself a lot). ~Ginger
qxe9898 05-27-07, 08:13 PM	A friendly LE character... By definition, a lawful character prefers to "play be the rules", either because the rules are good or the rules can be used as an effective shield for oneself. By definition, an evil character puts his own wants/needs/pleasures before those of other people. A chaotic evil person does this by bullying; a lawful neutral person does this by exchanging favors (you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours--maybe!); a lawful evil person does it by manipulation, bribery or blackmail. Someone with a hero complex needs constant affirmation of his worth--he does good deeds for attention. Alternatively, he may feel compelled to do good to make up for a past mistake. The former interpretation makes better sense if being charismatic is involved. So a LE charismatic character with a hero complex might look like this: he is insecure, either because he was constantly belittled as a child or he actually is sub-par (as heroes go). He was always doing things to be popular--volunteering to help anyone and everyone (but not doing a very good job of it, either due to incompetence or a short attention span), spending time trying to look handsome or being funny at parties, etc. In his desperation for acceptance, he fell in with a gang that taught him the less savory lessons of life. Adventurers were both a source of admiration and anger--he wanted to have the ability to "go off on his own" like them (but knew he'd fail), yet he resented them getting all the accolades every time they rode into town. A traumatic event happened, which forced your character into the hero's role--and he suceeded in saving the day! Armed with some confidence, he now adventures--but not for the good of others or out of patriotism. He adventures (mostly) for attention. He hogs the limelight whenever he can; while he praises others for their contributions, he always (subtly) makes it clear that the success was due to him. Of course he rarely breaks the rules--after all, he wouldn't want anyone accusing him of "stealing" the glory. As a matter of fact, he still needs to be part of respectable society, because it is the approval of these people that he craves. Maybe you don't think this guy's all that evil--but consider this. He will be the first to go on a low-risk quest (or one that is morally questionable) if it will get a lot of 'good press.' But he will balk at a risky quest with little chance of resultant acclaim. Any Paladin in the party is going to have a hard time accepting such behavior...
Terjon of the Blue Rose 05-27-07, 11:51 PM	Ginger's idea can even be taken one step farther. Play a sociopath. Your character has no concept of right and wrong. He knows he can't make these judgements for himself and moreover has no desire to. Still with a little intelligence and an even halfway decent wisdom he can decide for himself that rather than attempting to do what is right he will follow the law exactly. Law as written becomes his holy grail and he uses it as fully as he can to his advantage. Such a person views anything that can be done within the scope of the law as acceptable and any violation as sacrilege. If the law makes whoring illegal he may physically stop women from commiting this crime. If theft is illegal he may be more than willing to cut the hands off someone stealing bread to feed his starving family. And just as importantly look at what isn't illegal. If only certain drugs are illegal he may well deal in every other brand stopping and bringing in worse ones once his become illegal. If theft is illegal but purchasing stolen goods isn't he likely deals heavily in black market goods (though he is more than willing to turn in a thief he himself hired). If he can find any legal loophole for what he is doing he will exploit it.
Alex_Belinsky 05-28-07, 02:28 PM	Another idea - very similar to some real-world samurai. Way of the warrior means death. Your hero strive to be best warrior and so admire those who are superior warriors. All warriors must behave in accord with some CoC - your hero treat damsels with respect/ help to uphold the law/ know poetry well/ respect legal authority etc. etc. But he also is ready to sacrifice his own life for "the Worthy Cause" (tm). :) And he also look down on those "cowards", who is not warrior. But if his own's life is so cheap, how much cost life of those lesser people? So he (even without sociopathic tendencies, without bloodlust) become reasonable, thinking, cold-blooded killer. He may be greedy or generous, charming (with equals and code-defined as equals) or moody, scheming or honest (as per CoC) but he is LE.