LE Beguiler [Archive] - Wizards Community

LE Beguiler [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Rillek_Denar
01-14-07, 02:10 PM I'm playing a lawful evil Beguiler, named Rillek Denar. He's the third son of a local duke, and so has very little chance of inheriting the duchy. Some of his main qualities are a strict loyalty to his family, a personal lust for power, and a belief that he, or someone just like him, needs to be ruling the world. He is also a racist, thinking of elves, dwarves, gnomes, etc. as being subhuman, even animal. So here's my problem: I am adventuring with a party that is anything but homogenous. Of nine other members, there's two gnomes, an orc, a half-orc, and an elf.
Now, obviously a lawful evil character can restrain himself from randomly slaughtering them, but I have a quandry. How can I work with and associate with these members of the party? I like the internal tension it creates, but how can I justify actually interacting with them?
JulesCARV
01-14-07, 02:37 PM You're a beguiler, so you shouldn't be "randomly slaughtering" anyone -- if, for no other reason, because when you attempt to randomly slaughter someone, you find yourself randomly slaughtered instead. ;)

Let's say you think of other humanoid races as being non-humanoid animals. How do you treat NHAs? Well, if it's a horse, maybe you don't respect the horse as an equal, but if you want the horse to carry you around, you should probably treat it in a reasonably kind manner (at least, with traditional horsemanship methods, although some have tried nastier ways of training horses, with mixed results). You surely wouldn't randomly slaughter the horse. Likewise, If you want a dog to help you track stuff down, you try to get it to like you and regard you as the leader of its pack, etc.

As a beguiler, there's a difference between you and an enchanter or a sorcerer who focuses on illusion and enchantment spells. An enchanter-wizard may be just as good at you at casting dominate person or suggestion, but you actually can talk to people persuasively, get to know them, and get them to like you reliably without reliance on any magic. That's why you have all those lovely, lovely class skills and 6 + int skill points per level.

As such, you might be friendly -- in a slightly, maybe undiscernably condescending way, granted -- to nonhumans. You don't think they're your equal, but you're nice to them if you think they can help you. Heck, maybe you even feel some genuine affection for them, in the same way that you might feel some genuine affection for a loyal horse even if you think that horses are inferior to humans.

If you want an excuse to make sure that your manipulation of other PCs doesn't lead to you using tactics that will anger other players, like charming them, you might even think of magic as tacky and crude -- that spells are a last resort, and that a true master of interaction can achieve without a bit of magic what the less skilled must resort to magic to achieve. That would go well with your character's pride and arrogance: he believes that's he's such an awesome beguiler that he doesn't need to use magic, most of the time: he can just talk and get what he wants.
The Jake
01-14-07, 07:09 PM I'm playing a lawful evil Beguiler, named Rillek Denar. He's the third son of a local duke, and so has very little chance of inheriting the duchy. Some of his main qualities are a strict loyalty to his family, a personal lust for power, and a belief that he, or someone just like him, needs to be ruling the world. He is also a racist, thinking of elves, dwarves, gnomes, etc. as being subhuman, even animal. So here's my problem: I am adventuring with a party that is anything but homogenous. Of nine other members, there's two gnomes, an orc, a half-orc, and an elf.
Now, obviously a lawful evil character can restrain himself from randomly slaughtering them, but I have a quandry. How can I work with and associate with these members of the party? I like the internal tension it creates, but how can I justify actually interacting with them?

Every evil overlord needs lackeys.
Rillek_Denar
01-14-07, 10:00 PM Thanks Jules, this mirrors some of my own thoughts on the subject, and I really like the idea that one can develop affection for a pet. You can be sure that'll be how I justify it if my DM calls me on it.

Jake, I love that answer. It's a perfect answer.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rillek_Denar 01-14-07, 02:10 PM	I'm playing a lawful evil Beguiler, named Rillek Denar. He's the third son of a local duke, and so has very little chance of inheriting the duchy. Some of his main qualities are a strict loyalty to his family, a personal lust for power, and a belief that he, or someone just like him, needs to be ruling the world. He is also a racist, thinking of elves, dwarves, gnomes, etc. as being subhuman, even animal. So here's my problem: I am adventuring with a party that is anything but homogenous. Of nine other members, there's two gnomes, an orc, a half-orc, and an elf. Now, obviously a lawful evil character can restrain himself from randomly slaughtering them, but I have a quandry. How can I work with and associate with these members of the party? I like the internal tension it creates, but how can I justify actually interacting with them?
JulesCARV 01-14-07, 02:37 PM	You're a beguiler, so you shouldn't be "randomly slaughtering" anyone -- if, for no other reason, because when you attempt to randomly slaughter someone, you find yourself randomly slaughtered instead. ;) Let's say you think of other humanoid races as being non-humanoid animals. How do you treat NHAs? Well, if it's a horse, maybe you don't respect the horse as an equal, but if you want the horse to carry you around, you should probably treat it in a reasonably kind manner (at least, with traditional horsemanship methods, although some have tried nastier ways of training horses, with mixed results). You surely wouldn't randomly slaughter the horse. Likewise, If you want a dog to help you track stuff down, you try to get it to like you and regard you as the leader of its pack, etc. As a beguiler, there's a difference between you and an enchanter or a sorcerer who focuses on illusion and enchantment spells. An enchanter-wizard may be just as good at you at casting dominate person or suggestion, but you actually can talk to people persuasively, get to know them, and get them to like you reliably without reliance on any magic. That's why you have all those lovely, lovely class skills and 6 + int skill points per level. As such, you might be friendly -- in a slightly, maybe undiscernably condescending way, granted -- to nonhumans. You don't think they're your equal, but you're nice to them if you think they can help you. Heck, maybe you even feel some genuine affection for them, in the same way that you might feel some genuine affection for a loyal horse even if you think that horses are inferior to humans. If you want an excuse to make sure that your manipulation of other PCs doesn't lead to you using tactics that will anger other players, like charming them, you might even think of magic as tacky and crude -- that spells are a last resort, and that a true master of interaction can achieve without a bit of magic what the less skilled must resort to magic to achieve. That would go well with your character's pride and arrogance: he believes that's he's such an awesome beguiler that he doesn't need to use magic, most of the time: he can just talk and get what he wants.
The Jake 01-14-07, 07:09 PM	I'm playing a lawful evil Beguiler, named Rillek Denar. He's the third son of a local duke, and so has very little chance of inheriting the duchy. Some of his main qualities are a strict loyalty to his family, a personal lust for power, and a belief that he, or someone just like him, needs to be ruling the world. He is also a racist, thinking of elves, dwarves, gnomes, etc. as being subhuman, even animal. So here's my problem: I am adventuring with a party that is anything but homogenous. Of nine other members, there's two gnomes, an orc, a half-orc, and an elf. Now, obviously a lawful evil character can restrain himself from randomly slaughtering them, but I have a quandry. How can I work with and associate with these members of the party? I like the internal tension it creates, but how can I justify actually interacting with them? Every evil overlord needs lackeys.
Rillek_Denar 01-14-07, 10:00 PM	Thanks Jules, this mirrors some of my own thoughts on the subject, and I really like the idea that one can develop affection for a pet. You can be sure that'll be how I justify it if my DM calls me on it. Jake, I love that answer. It's a perfect answer.