Looking for a good PrC... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Looking for a good PrC... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
White_djinn
07-22-04, 09:47 PM I’m looking for a PrC that would complement my PC’s personality better than straight wizard, but so far, it’s proven a complex task. Here’s a quick rundown of the PC’s background:

He’s the youngest son of a very minor noble family. Said family had to leave the city when their benefactor died. (no open hostility, just… no future) On the way to their ancestral estates, the PC suffered a severe head injury when brigands ambushed the family’s convoy.

The brigands were driven off and the PC eventually recovered, but he developed acute paranoia as a result of the head injury. He is convinced that a powerful cabal involving several high-ranking nobles is out to get him and/or his family for unclear motives. Worse, he ran away from his family when they figured out something was wrong with him. His elder brothers are currently looking for him.

I first intended the conspiracy to be all in his head, but the DM took a look at the background and apparently ran with it (that’ll teach me…) as he dropped several hints that it could develop into the main storyline of the campaign. It makes no difference as far as the PC is concerned, but managed to run my paranoia levels up quite a bit…

The PC is currently a lvl 4 abjurer (forbidden school illusion. They can see through that, you know…) He can work with the group, as his paranoļa is not yet very advanced, but has trust issues, and a dislike of having spells cast upon him. His insanity and overall outlook on the world (Big Brother is out to get me, must defend myself…) forced me to classify him as CN, which is a bit awkward, since he’s a plotter and a schemer, and likes to plan several moves ahead. (please, do not turn this into a discussion about CN…) As for the group he is in, it’s technically good-aligned, but with a heavy neutral slant, and there is no one in it that could cure him for a good many levels. (It would take a Heal spell, and our only cleric is double-classed…)

I’m playing 3.0.

I’ve considered the Incantatrix. The GM nerfed it a bit by house-ruling that you can’t stack several instances of a feat on the same spell, and due to some unoptimal skill placements, I would have to start at lvl 6, but it would still be a major upgrade in firepower. Also, some traits (the Iron Will and abjurer requirements, See Ethereal) fit well. However, the overall flavour feels wrong; the PC has no special beef with outerplanar creatures, and hasn’t even seen one so far. In fact, I was counting on summoning spells to gain access to spells like Detect Evil. Besides, the idea of this PC just blasting a trail through anything he encounters is ill-fitting at best.

Right now, I’m thinking about the Loremaster, of all classes. It would make for a more proactive character, thanks to Bardic knowledge, Gather information and eventually Legend Lore. The PC makes heavy use of spells like detect poison and detect thoughts, so the Loremaster’s interest in divination is rather fitting, as is the knowledge of magic objects, in a way… (“I’ve heard they have crystal balls who can see through the strongest wards…”) The biggest problem I have is the bookworm flavour of the PrC. There’s no way you can get somebody this skittish to spend his days in a library, and he doesn’t have access to that many books…

Any comments/ideas? PrCs that you feel would fit perfectly? Questions?
Ganurath
07-23-04, 02:58 PM I would personally suggest loremaster, considering your PC would probably try to find out information as to why the cabal is after his family, and the Loremaster PrC could probably dig up some dirt easier than anyone else. Not to mention you get various goodies that could help you evade the enemy, like skill bonuses, extra languages to spy on conversations between agents, etc.
SoulLord
07-26-04, 01:20 PM the way i see it the character is paranoid
so he would be trying to protect himself at all costs

the Thaumaturgist seems like a good prestige class he could try to focus on his planar allies to give him information about his enemies while at the same time protect him from them.

if the dm is crafty enough perhaps he can give you a few evil planar allies which would be more than happy to help you destroy your enemies.

SoulLord
White_djinn
07-27-04, 02:25 PM Well, I've taken a look at http://www.crystalkeep.com (those lists are great!) and there's a slight problem with the thaumaturgist: I'm playing a 3.0 wizard, and it's a 3.5 divine PrC. The 3.0 arcane equivalent seems to be the Eldrich Master, but from Crystalkeep's definition, it looks like a sorcerer PrC, and then there's other issues like finding the relevant Dragon magazine, etc...

Actually, looking a the list seems to confirm what I was afraid of: there's a number of interesting PrCs out there, but nothing that will really fit my roleplaying like a glove... Several interesting ones, like the Harper Mage, require membership in some sort of organisation, which is a no-no, and others, like the Mage-killer, would need my PC to have a kind of favoured enemy, which is hard to justify.

Let's change the subject a bit: I'm still interested in finding a better PrC, but assuming the PC sticks with the Loremaster, what kind of Knowledge should he focus on, apart from Arcana? Nobility, to hopefully know more about his enemy? History, to dig into his family's past and hopefully find the root of the Conspiracy? The Planes, to be ready for potential extraplanar foes? The party is currently in a remote village, so I'm not sure if Local would be of any use... how does that work, exactly? I'm inclined towards Nobility, and I think that's what the character would focus on, but if the "noble houses" theory is wrong (remember, as originally planned, it's nothing more than a paranoļd theory!), it's a lot of time and skills wasted, and the PC, even with his insanity, would be aware of that, too...
Poukis
07-27-04, 03:57 PM Actually I think that local is a good knoweledge to have some ranks... First of all local is not local like ''the small village tha I currently live in'', it's more like gossips and stuff from places you've been or for people whose fame get's out of the borders of a country...A noisy neighbour (or however that word is written) than knows everything about everyone that lives in his block has ranks in local. I think it would be good for your character to have some ranks in it so that he knows some stuff that can't be found in books. (no book would mention about the mysterious dissapearences of villagers at night, except if it led to a historical eventm though your character would like to know such stuff so that he can guard himself against ''mysterious organizations'') I like the loremaster idea (although I must admit that i am a bit rusty and can't think of many prestige classes) with a focus on divination so that he can learn more about his enemies... Now, if you play on forgotten realms i would also suggest spellfire channeler from magic of faerun too, because if you are a spellfire user (which is just a feat), that would justify the attack and the pursuit on your character from the evil guys (if it is true) because in faerun spellfire users are very rare and are hunted for experiments... That's all...
Kitt-su
07-28-04, 12:23 AM Personally I suggest updating to 3.5. If your a little on the underpaid side, try to just get something like complete divine (Or complete arcane, when it comes out), and mod them for 3.0 if theres anything you'd really need to mess with it. That should opne plenty of avenues PrC wise.
White_djinn
07-30-04, 07:35 PM Concerning 3.5, the decision is not up to me, but to the DM and the group as a whole, and nobody seems to be in a hurry to upgrade. Yet, I will be keeping a close eye on Complete Arcane, and see if there's anything worth taking to my DM.

I hate taking my own thread off-topic, but could somebody explain to me the differences between Knowledge (local) and Gather Information? In particular, is there a difference in the nature of the information gathered? Or is it just a difference in the way you get this information?
Poukis
07-31-04, 04:22 AM In my point of view you ''gather information'' if you don't know something using knowledge (local), or you don't know enough... Knowledge (local) are things that you know, gather information are things that you ask around. Knowledge (local) is much safer because no-one hears that you are searching for something. Ie. if your party is searching for the burial chamber of a powerful wizard, thieves or another adventuring party may hear that and tail you characters until your party comes triumphantly out of the tomb just to fall in an ambush. If you knew about the tomb (via local) there wouldn't be that possibility.
White_djinn
08-02-04, 04:22 PM In your opinion, how widespread would Knowledge (local) be? And how detailed? I'd assume it would overlap Bardic (or in this case Loremaster) knowledge, but how much?

Put another way, could anybody give examples of things that would be easier to learn via:

-Bardic Knowledge
-Knowledge (local)
-Gather information
-Knowledge (other)

For instance, that burial chamber situation sounds like a case for Bardic knowledge. The way you put it, Knowledge (local) sounds appropriate if someone were looking for the wizard himself. Or am I underestimating it?
Passionateapathy
08-09-04, 03:01 PM I think the loremaster is an excellent way to go. The bookworm part can be mitigated as much or as little as you like. He could be a 'speed reader', have a photographic memory, or just sneak in at night when 'no one is around.'

As for knowledge, you might look at the skill synergies with all the various types of knowledge to give you ideas... You could also just have him so 'paranoid' that he learns a bit about literally everything! (he doesn't trust people, or he is searching 'frantically' for ANY type of clue from ANY source...

Also... if you actually enjoy the insanity you might try the alienist (isn't that the one that summons pseudonatural creatures?) or the demon skinner (he really DOES hear voices) as possible alternatives to loremaster...
White_djinn
08-11-04, 08:03 PM The demon skinner sounds a bit extreme for now, but the alienist is an interesting choice. Still, it's more of a Lovecraftian-type insanity, as opposed to your run-of-the-mill paranoļa...

I love the idea of the character sneaking into a public library at night! That's just the kind of excessively paranoid stunt he'd do! Of course, he can't use invisibility, but with a couple of enchantments... :smirk:

The character already has a few points in just about every Knowledge skill, so your analysis is pretty close to mine. From what I've gathered in this thread, I should probably focus on Knowledge (local) as a prerequisite for Loremaster, but that doesn't mean he'd trust a single source... if it's important, Knowledge + Bardic knowledge + Legend Lore+ possibly Gather Info + possibly Planar Binding or Contact Other Plane... and if that's not enough, he'll bring out the clerical scrolls! And even then, his illness will keep him from truly trusting any information. It's a fun, if somewhat excessive, character concept... and we haven't even talked about his own machinations...
Ganurath
08-11-04, 10:39 PM The Knowledge skills to focus on to meet requirements qould be Arcana (obvious reasons), Nobility (includes history of and between noble families, I believe), and Local (as previously stated). Don't forget the seven Divination spells.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
White_djinn 07-22-04, 09:47 PM	I’m looking for a PrC that would complement my PC’s personality better than straight wizard, but so far, it’s proven a complex task. Here’s a quick rundown of the PC’s background: He’s the youngest son of a very minor noble family. Said family had to leave the city when their benefactor died. (no open hostility, just… no future) On the way to their ancestral estates, the PC suffered a severe head injury when brigands ambushed the family’s convoy. The brigands were driven off and the PC eventually recovered, but he developed acute paranoia as a result of the head injury. He is convinced that a powerful cabal involving several high-ranking nobles is out to get him and/or his family for unclear motives. Worse, he ran away from his family when they figured out something was wrong with him. His elder brothers are currently looking for him. I first intended the conspiracy to be all in his head, but the DM took a look at the background and apparently ran with it (that’ll teach me…) as he dropped several hints that it could develop into the main storyline of the campaign. It makes no difference as far as the PC is concerned, but managed to run my paranoia levels up quite a bit… The PC is currently a lvl 4 abjurer (forbidden school illusion. They can see through that, you know…) He can work with the group, as his paranoļa is not yet very advanced, but has trust issues, and a dislike of having spells cast upon him. His insanity and overall outlook on the world (Big Brother is out to get me, must defend myself…) forced me to classify him as CN, which is a bit awkward, since he’s a plotter and a schemer, and likes to plan several moves ahead. (please, do not turn this into a discussion about CN…) As for the group he is in, it’s technically good-aligned, but with a heavy neutral slant, and there is no one in it that could cure him for a good many levels. (It would take a Heal spell, and our only cleric is double-classed…) I’m playing 3.0. I’ve considered the Incantatrix. The GM nerfed it a bit by house-ruling that you can’t stack several instances of a feat on the same spell, and due to some unoptimal skill placements, I would have to start at lvl 6, but it would still be a major upgrade in firepower. Also, some traits (the Iron Will and abjurer requirements, See Ethereal) fit well. However, the overall flavour feels wrong; the PC has no special beef with outerplanar creatures, and hasn’t even seen one so far. In fact, I was counting on summoning spells to gain access to spells like Detect Evil. Besides, the idea of this PC just blasting a trail through anything he encounters is ill-fitting at best. Right now, I’m thinking about the Loremaster, of all classes. It would make for a more proactive character, thanks to Bardic knowledge, Gather information and eventually Legend Lore. The PC makes heavy use of spells like detect poison and detect thoughts, so the Loremaster’s interest in divination is rather fitting, as is the knowledge of magic objects, in a way… (“I’ve heard they have crystal balls who can see through the strongest wards…”) The biggest problem I have is the bookworm flavour of the PrC. There’s no way you can get somebody this skittish to spend his days in a library, and he doesn’t have access to that many books… Any comments/ideas? PrCs that you feel would fit perfectly? Questions?
Ganurath 07-23-04, 02:58 PM	I would personally suggest loremaster, considering your PC would probably try to find out information as to why the cabal is after his family, and the Loremaster PrC could probably dig up some dirt easier than anyone else. Not to mention you get various goodies that could help you evade the enemy, like skill bonuses, extra languages to spy on conversations between agents, etc.
SoulLord 07-26-04, 01:20 PM	the way i see it the character is paranoid so he would be trying to protect himself at all costs the Thaumaturgist seems like a good prestige class he could try to focus on his planar allies to give him information about his enemies while at the same time protect him from them. if the dm is crafty enough perhaps he can give you a few evil planar allies which would be more than happy to help you destroy your enemies. SoulLord
White_djinn 07-27-04, 02:25 PM	Well, I've taken a look at http://www.crystalkeep.com (those lists are great!) and there's a slight problem with the thaumaturgist: I'm playing a 3.0 wizard, and it's a 3.5 divine PrC. The 3.0 arcane equivalent seems to be the Eldrich Master, but from Crystalkeep's definition, it looks like a sorcerer PrC, and then there's other issues like finding the relevant Dragon magazine, etc... Actually, looking a the list seems to confirm what I was afraid of: there's a number of interesting PrCs out there, but nothing that will really fit my roleplaying like a glove... Several interesting ones, like the Harper Mage, require membership in some sort of organisation, which is a no-no, and others, like the Mage-killer, would need my PC to have a kind of favoured enemy, which is hard to justify. Let's change the subject a bit: I'm still interested in finding a better PrC, but assuming the PC sticks with the Loremaster, what kind of Knowledge should he focus on, apart from Arcana? Nobility, to hopefully know more about his enemy? History, to dig into his family's past and hopefully find the root of the Conspiracy? The Planes, to be ready for potential extraplanar foes? The party is currently in a remote village, so I'm not sure if Local would be of any use... how does that work, exactly? I'm inclined towards Nobility, and I think that's what the character would focus on, but if the "noble houses" theory is wrong (remember, as originally planned, it's nothing more than a paranoļd theory!), it's a lot of time and skills wasted, and the PC, even with his insanity, would be aware of that, too...
Poukis 07-27-04, 03:57 PM	Actually I think that local is a good knoweledge to have some ranks... First of all local is not local like ''the small village tha I currently live in'', it's more like gossips and stuff from places you've been or for people whose fame get's out of the borders of a country...A noisy neighbour (or however that word is written) than knows everything about everyone that lives in his block has ranks in local. I think it would be good for your character to have some ranks in it so that he knows some stuff that can't be found in books. (no book would mention about the mysterious dissapearences of villagers at night, except if it led to a historical eventm though your character would like to know such stuff so that he can guard himself against ''mysterious organizations'') I like the loremaster idea (although I must admit that i am a bit rusty and can't think of many prestige classes) with a focus on divination so that he can learn more about his enemies... Now, if you play on forgotten realms i would also suggest spellfire channeler from magic of faerun too, because if you are a spellfire user (which is just a feat), that would justify the attack and the pursuit on your character from the evil guys (if it is true) because in faerun spellfire users are very rare and are hunted for experiments... That's all...
Kitt-su 07-28-04, 12:23 AM	Personally I suggest updating to 3.5. If your a little on the underpaid side, try to just get something like complete divine (Or complete arcane, when it comes out), and mod them for 3.0 if theres anything you'd really need to mess with it. That should opne plenty of avenues PrC wise.
White_djinn 07-30-04, 07:35 PM	Concerning 3.5, the decision is not up to me, but to the DM and the group as a whole, and nobody seems to be in a hurry to upgrade. Yet, I will be keeping a close eye on Complete Arcane, and see if there's anything worth taking to my DM. I hate taking my own thread off-topic, but could somebody explain to me the differences between Knowledge (local) and Gather Information? In particular, is there a difference in the nature of the information gathered? Or is it just a difference in the way you get this information?
Poukis 07-31-04, 04:22 AM	In my point of view you ''gather information'' if you don't know something using knowledge (local), or you don't know enough... Knowledge (local) are things that you know, gather information are things that you ask around. Knowledge (local) is much safer because no-one hears that you are searching for something. Ie. if your party is searching for the burial chamber of a powerful wizard, thieves or another adventuring party may hear that and tail you characters until your party comes triumphantly out of the tomb just to fall in an ambush. If you knew about the tomb (via local) there wouldn't be that possibility.
White_djinn 08-02-04, 04:22 PM	In your opinion, how widespread would Knowledge (local) be? And how detailed? I'd assume it would overlap Bardic (or in this case Loremaster) knowledge, but how much? Put another way, could anybody give examples of things that would be easier to learn via: -Bardic Knowledge -Knowledge (local) -Gather information -Knowledge (other) For instance, that burial chamber situation sounds like a case for Bardic knowledge. The way you put it, Knowledge (local) sounds appropriate if someone were looking for the wizard himself. Or am I underestimating it?
Passionateapathy 08-09-04, 03:01 PM	I think the loremaster is an excellent way to go. The bookworm part can be mitigated as much or as little as you like. He could be a 'speed reader', have a photographic memory, or just sneak in at night when 'no one is around.' As for knowledge, you might look at the skill synergies with all the various types of knowledge to give you ideas... You could also just have him so 'paranoid' that he learns a bit about literally everything! (he doesn't trust people, or he is searching 'frantically' for ANY type of clue from ANY source... Also... if you actually enjoy the insanity you might try the alienist (isn't that the one that summons pseudonatural creatures?) or the demon skinner (he really DOES hear voices) as possible alternatives to loremaster...
White_djinn 08-11-04, 08:03 PM	The demon skinner sounds a bit extreme for now, but the alienist is an interesting choice. Still, it's more of a Lovecraftian-type insanity, as opposed to your run-of-the-mill paranoļa... I love the idea of the character sneaking into a public library at night! That's just the kind of excessively paranoid stunt he'd do! Of course, he can't use invisibility, but with a couple of enchantments... :smirk: The character already has a few points in just about every Knowledge skill, so your analysis is pretty close to mine. From what I've gathered in this thread, I should probably focus on Knowledge (local) as a prerequisite for Loremaster, but that doesn't mean he'd trust a single source... if it's important, Knowledge + Bardic knowledge + Legend Lore+ possibly Gather Info + possibly Planar Binding or Contact Other Plane... and if that's not enough, he'll bring out the clerical scrolls! And even then, his illness will keep him from truly trusting any information. It's a fun, if somewhat excessive, character concept... and we haven't even talked about his own machinations...
Ganurath 08-11-04, 10:39 PM	The Knowledge skills to focus on to meet requirements qould be Arcana (obvious reasons), Nobility (includes history of and between noble families, I believe), and Local (as previously stated). Don't forget the seven Divination spells.