Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Boshi 08-19-06, 02:22 AM	I just rolled up a paladin/scout player as a backup in case my current character dies (my characters tend to do that). He's a young naive skinny little guy with the brainpower/wisdom of a gnat but makes up for it with cheery empty-headed optimism (think Elan in The Order of the Stick), impulsiveness, agility and a complete lack of standard paladin **** retentiveness. I want this to be a pretty straight-forward character but not completely one-dimensional so I want him to have one good tragic flaw that would make him a bit more complex than a "idiot boyscout" cardboard cutout. So I look up the seven deadly sins: Lust: nah, he's too naive. Gluttony: nah, doesn't fit. Greed: nah, again too naive. Sloth: nah. Wrath: nah. Envy: maybe, but envious of what? Pride: nah. Any ideas?
Devlonir 08-19-06, 03:50 AM	why not lust? young means he is about teenaged.. and what do teenagers want more then anything?? to bust their bubble man! i think lust would be a nice, and also quite funny, flaw to give to this concept.
Otogi 08-19-06, 09:29 AM	Devlonir, when you say Lust as a flaw, do you mean stoner movie lust or actually dramatic lust?
LordBritish2 08-19-06, 10:17 AM	Tragic flaws don't have to have anything to do with the Seven Deadly Sins. For example, mine is my extreme confident, probably overconfidence, in my abilities.
Boshi 08-19-06, 11:05 AM	Tragic flaws don't have to have anything to do with the Seven Deadly Sins. For example, mine is my extreme confident, probably overconfidence, in my abilities. Right, I was just trying to use them for inspiration. Lust could work I guess, but I want this character to be a bit more naive than that...
Devlonir 08-19-06, 12:48 PM	Well, then don't you have his tragic flaw right there? He is just too naïve for this world? Probably even very gullible. That would work i think.
Roivas 08-20-06, 05:26 AM	I advise telling the GM his family has kept a terrible secret from him. Then give the GM guidelines for this secret like grandfather was a lich, or all the males of the family die fighting one particular Pit Fiend. Then he isn't aware of his dark family history, but it can happen in game. Also make sure you just throw out idea, the GM should tell you to stop once he hits on an idea. Then just wait until the fun starts.
Sikyanakotik 08-27-06, 03:22 PM	Tragic flaws don't have to have anything to do with the Seven Deadly Sins. For example, mine is my extreme confident, probably overconfidence, in my abilities. It seems kind of ironic that you'd say there's no connection, then cite a clear example of Pride. You're still right, of course. Personally, I think this naiveté makes a perfect tragic flaw. I can see a lot of juicy consequences coming from that, from letting a notorious villain free after hearing his sob story to accidentally killing an innocent because it was "obvious" that he was guilty. I love it!
Ensjak 08-28-06, 04:44 PM	Do you mean a character flaw or do you mean tragic flaw? There's a difference. Tragic flaw is the Renaissance European interpretation of the greek term Hamartia which means "near miss." Aristotle explains the near miss in two ways. One is a character trait which is what you're obviously thinking of and which really just brings about the 2nd part which is the action that causes the hero's downfall. The tragic hero is supposed to be as perfect as possible. The most obvious is hubris (pride). But don't limit yourself to the 7 deadly sins. A tragic flaw could be anything even something as righteous as filial loyalty. All a tragic flaw really is is a catalyst for the downfall of a character. That's why it can be a trait or an action (the trait usually causes the action). Paladins are by definition tragic heroes if sticking to their ideals causes them to lose their life (generally thought to be the greatest sacrifice) or their family or loved ones etc. If you're just going for character flaw I'd say think of a person you know and just take something you see in them. It's less dramatic and more fresh than just picking one of those 7 sins.
erbmjw 08-29-06, 02:26 PM	Technically ( al'la Literary Criticism, etc) - a tragic flaw is something that normally would be considereded a virtue but through the behaviour of the individual (hero) has become a signifigant factor in their downfall. The death of a Paladin whom is following their ideals is not always tragic, nor does their death mean that they are a tragic hero. A tragic hero does not need to be as near perfect as possible - they need to have their downfall brought about in part by their own action as based on a trait that is normally associated with a virtue. ************ It sounds more your you want a character flaw Boshi - not something that will be a signifigant factor in your downfall. Simple flaw - pick a skill but also pick a disadvantage that makes you horrible at the skill as well as unable(unwilling) to recognize how horrible you are at things. Ie - Skill: singing/music Flaw(s): tone deaf/ no sense of rhythm / no ability to maintain timing after 15-45 seconds Or how about a real flaw Kleptomania : it might bring about your downfall but it's not tragic - plus it could be real fun for you to have to your Paladin character walk back through the bar/market/camp/etc returning the item(s) and confessing to the people that you took/stole them ;)
Grey_Mage 08-29-06, 05:00 PM	Isnt a paladins own rightcheousness *sp* a flaw? "The perfect knight", unbending in his oaths, heedless in his defiance against the darkness, unmovable on any matter of honor.... That can cause alot of problems. Seriously. Anyone seen "Kingdom of heaven"???. And thats just the most recent example I can see... the dark tower series has some more, as do many of the tales of king arthur.... And to boot... this synergizes well with the naivette doesnt it? The idea that if one simply sticks to their guns, stays on the rightcheous path, everything will turn out well- no matter what history has shown us? *shrugs* Not that I nessecairily disagree lol, but isnt it?
erbmjw 08-29-06, 07:28 PM	While certain behaviour could be considered a flaw it does not necessarily mean it is a tragic flaw; there are schools of thought that maintain a signifigant difference between the two types of behaviour. Specifically in certain academic areas tragic flaws are considered virtues which become a signifigant factor in an individual's downfall. While common downfall does not require the death of the individual(tragic hero), rather downfall does require a considerable self-imposed violation of integrity. In many circumstances death should not be considered a downfall, especially a heroic death. ***** Example If a Paladin's sense of honour leads him/her into a situation that leads to his death but s/he succeeds in actions that ultimately support her/his ideals/faith/etc then their honourable behaviour was not a tragic flaw instead s/he should be considered a hero/martyr. Death but no self-imposd violation of ingetrity - flaw maybe/maybe not - tragic flaw definately not. On the other hand if the paladin's sense of honour allowed him/her to knowingly/willingly avoid upholding their ideals/faith/etc in dire circumstances then their rigid adherance to honour is a tragic flaw. Similarly for ambition - good ambition leads you to improve yourself - ambition as a tragic flaw leads you to a considerable self-imposed violation of your integrity and ultimately your downfall.