Mixing Complex and Flat characters? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Mixing Complex and Flat characters? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Charke
03-22-07, 01:17 PM Some players show up at the table early with 10 pages of backstory they want to read outloud and bring up constantly throughout the game. Others show up late, without a character, and roll up a fighter "cause their simple to make". The character is lucky to get a name.

Anyone have any solutions for this problem?

Mark Charke
Prator_the_Legendary
03-22-07, 05:28 PM Make a 1-2 page limit on character backstory. Note that this is both a maximum and a minimum. That or you can try to find some different players who think more or less alike.
Trevorfrost
03-22-07, 07:53 PM Generally this whole question revolves around what type of DM, and group we are talking about. Can you as a DM handle that type of detail? Are the majority of your players "10 page bio players" or "Bob, the generic fighter players" or as is more likely they take a middle of the road approach?

The DM part of the equation is important in the fact that if you can't deal with that level of detail, then that demanding player should really find a new game cause you aren't going to satisfy him as a DM. Its the player end of things where it gets more tricky.

Personally I hate having to tell players that they need to stop giving me background info, there is nothing as a DM that I love more than background, cause it often gives me ideas for hooks in game. However excessive background can also impede in the enjoyment of your less detail oriented players who simply want to play "Bob, the generic fighter" and go crawling through a dungeon. Also depending on the level of detail I could end up spending way more time on a character's background than I as a DM am willing to spend.

When dealing with such vast differences in the spectrum you have to ask yourself some questions. What do the majority of your players want? If the majority of your players are closer to the generic type, then its easier to ask the detail player to tone it down, and the vast majority of the time they will do so. It will sometimes happen that the detail player will realize that said game is not for him but unfortunatly there is nothing that you can do about that.

If the majority of your characters are detail oriented, well thats a different kettle of fish entirely. Bob the generic fighter, generally has no place in such a game, and can become incredibly disruptive. Not only that, the poor player of Bob, will most likely not be having hardly any fun. Unless you think the player of Bob is capable of keeping up with the others in the details department, best to tell him to find another game more appropriate to what he's looking for. Not because he's a lesser player or anything but because it would be just as not fun for him as it would be for the other players.

Generally your going to have a more even mix of course, so as a DM you have to decide how much is too much and how much is too little. Ask the players what they think, and then make your decisions based on that.
Terjon of the Blue Rose
03-23-07, 03:49 AM :teach:Two solutions I have used::teach:

Pre-gen characters: *NOTE* This solution only works if both players and the DM (thats 3 people) agree *end note*

Bob-the fighter types have fairly simple character backgrounds which they can choose to expand or leave as-is. The player doesn't need to do any work and may even allow other players to choose feats and skills for them. This means the character fits the party both mechanically and storywise. If your willing to accept them this can be an optimal choice especially if you have another player who wants to do the work of creating and maintaining that character. I have both in my current campaign. Player 1 (former DM who found it to be too much work) created and levels up Player 2's rogue. Player 2 shows up and plays the character enoying the game but doing no paperwork.

Solution 2

Game focus: *Note* This can cause friction in game. If it does be prepared to tell problem players you will include them more into the story if they provide more background info. Also be be prepared to do so. *end note*

In my last game one player had an exceptional storyline while another enjoyed the mechanics and treated the game more like a video game than a rp experience. I enjoyed Player 1's backstory so much I changed one of the major villians in the campaign to give them more chances to RP their hatred for such. In my case Player 2 didn't mind... he was more or less there to kill things and grab loot. If Player 2 had provided more story then he already had I could have fairly easily given him direct links to a new ally. Indeed I already had that ally available to the party if they chose to exploit his existing background. Since things were working out however I just left that ally out of the way as an emergency reserve and moved the story onward.

In both cases the key is to find out what the players want and divide up game time between such. Give everyone a chance to shine... even if their time to shine is "I charge the giant and deal 2d6+1290132489 damage."

Personally I find it more difficult to deal with 2 players who want to shine in the same area.:hides:
JusticeZero
03-24-07, 07:43 AM Here's a point that I wish people would do for ME.

Don't ask for a background until at least the second session; give them a relatively short adventure to start out with - Not a one session one-shot, but nothing even remotely epic; between two and four sessions long - and tell them that you'll want character backgrounds after that starting adventure ends. In fact, tell them that you do NOT want a background on the first session. Well, they can give you one, but you won't read it. You're not going to read any of them, in fact, until you're starting to think of where to go after the first adventure.

I admit that I often make a "Bob the Fighter". Bob will rarely, if ever, tell me his backstory when i'm rolling the dice. Bob doesn't tell me his backstory when i'm putting in skills, though he may nudge here and there. No, Bob starts really talking after the first or second fight, when I see some detail that the GM tossed off in passing something and Bob starts telling me "You know, this reminds me of when I was young, when I lived in the southlands and..."

I couldn't possibly make a character background before I started playing; I don't know it yet. I just met my character and i'm not familiar with them yet. Doesn't mean I don't RP them once I get in the groove.
Xenu
03-25-07, 03:44 PM The mix does not HAVE to be a problem.
And a on-the-fly character can evolve into a deep one.

The problem is when you mix roleplayers and people who just want to play a analogous (non-digital) first person shooter.

I once got thrown out of a group because I objected when one of the other "heroes" murdered a helpless captive and desecrated the corpse - on the one hand we was supposed to be the good guys, but on the other hand I "ruined the good mood" by actually roleplaying.

It was a good choice to remove me fron that particular group, i really didn't fit in that group. The DM wasn't even into roleplaying games at all (so he claimed), he simply played to keep his friends together. We was five guys, and I didn't know three of them at all. The fourth was the one who brought me along, and he was also the only one besides me who had a real backstory and personality to his char.

Anyway. I strongly reccomend AGAINST putting limits to the backstory, in either direction. One of my best chars was over 20 pages long. Another really cool character was made last minute, and didn't have any backstory or personality description at all at first. He turned out to be a really creepy guy, because the other players didn't bother roleplaying telling him what happened before I entered the campaign: My char was a telepath, so I decided he had simply spied on their thoughts. And why had he done that? Well, he turned out toe be the kind of creep who misuse his powers constantly, simply because he enjoys it and consider himself cool and superior. :D
Sphyre
03-26-07, 04:42 AM Try this:

The 10 Memories

If someone wants to make 10 pages of backstory, I'm fine with that. It's the lack of character back story that bothers me.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Charke 03-22-07, 01:17 PM	Some players show up at the table early with 10 pages of backstory they want to read outloud and bring up constantly throughout the game. Others show up late, without a character, and roll up a fighter "cause their simple to make". The character is lucky to get a name. Anyone have any solutions for this problem? Mark Charke
Prator_the_Legendary 03-22-07, 05:28 PM	Make a 1-2 page limit on character backstory. Note that this is both a maximum and a minimum. That or you can try to find some different players who think more or less alike.
Trevorfrost 03-22-07, 07:53 PM	Generally this whole question revolves around what type of DM, and group we are talking about. Can you as a DM handle that type of detail? Are the majority of your players "10 page bio players" or "Bob, the generic fighter players" or as is more likely they take a middle of the road approach? The DM part of the equation is important in the fact that if you can't deal with that level of detail, then that demanding player should really find a new game cause you aren't going to satisfy him as a DM. Its the player end of things where it gets more tricky. Personally I hate having to tell players that they need to stop giving me background info, there is nothing as a DM that I love more than background, cause it often gives me ideas for hooks in game. However excessive background can also impede in the enjoyment of your less detail oriented players who simply want to play "Bob, the generic fighter" and go crawling through a dungeon. Also depending on the level of detail I could end up spending way more time on a character's background than I as a DM am willing to spend. When dealing with such vast differences in the spectrum you have to ask yourself some questions. What do the majority of your players want? If the majority of your players are closer to the generic type, then its easier to ask the detail player to tone it down, and the vast majority of the time they will do so. It will sometimes happen that the detail player will realize that said game is not for him but unfortunatly there is nothing that you can do about that. If the majority of your characters are detail oriented, well thats a different kettle of fish entirely. Bob the generic fighter, generally has no place in such a game, and can become incredibly disruptive. Not only that, the poor player of Bob, will most likely not be having hardly any fun. Unless you think the player of Bob is capable of keeping up with the others in the details department, best to tell him to find another game more appropriate to what he's looking for. Not because he's a lesser player or anything but because it would be just as not fun for him as it would be for the other players. Generally your going to have a more even mix of course, so as a DM you have to decide how much is too much and how much is too little. Ask the players what they think, and then make your decisions based on that.
Terjon of the Blue Rose 03-23-07, 03:49 AM	:teach:Two solutions I have used::teach: Pre-gen characters: NOTE This solution only works if both players and the DM (thats 3 people) agree end note Bob-the fighter types have fairly simple character backgrounds which they can choose to expand or leave as-is. The player doesn't need to do any work and may even allow other players to choose feats and skills for them. This means the character fits the party both mechanically and storywise. If your willing to accept them this can be an optimal choice especially if you have another player who wants to do the work of creating and maintaining that character. I have both in my current campaign. Player 1 (former DM who found it to be too much work) created and levels up Player 2's rogue. Player 2 shows up and plays the character enoying the game but doing no paperwork. Solution 2 Game focus: Note This can cause friction in game. If it does be prepared to tell problem players you will include them more into the story if they provide more background info. Also be be prepared to do so. end note In my last game one player had an exceptional storyline while another enjoyed the mechanics and treated the game more like a video game than a rp experience. I enjoyed Player 1's backstory so much I changed one of the major villians in the campaign to give them more chances to RP their hatred for such. In my case Player 2 didn't mind... he was more or less there to kill things and grab loot. If Player 2 had provided more story then he already had I could have fairly easily given him direct links to a new ally. Indeed I already had that ally available to the party if they chose to exploit his existing background. Since things were working out however I just left that ally out of the way as an emergency reserve and moved the story onward. In both cases the key is to find out what the players want and divide up game time between such. Give everyone a chance to shine... even if their time to shine is "I charge the giant and deal 2d6+1290132489 damage." Personally I find it more difficult to deal with 2 players who want to shine in the same area.:hides:
JusticeZero 03-24-07, 07:43 AM	Here's a point that I wish people would do for ME. Don't ask for a background until at least the second session; give them a relatively short adventure to start out with - Not a one session one-shot, but nothing even remotely epic; between two and four sessions long - and tell them that you'll want character backgrounds after that starting adventure ends. In fact, tell them that you do NOT want a background on the first session. Well, they can give you one, but you won't read it. You're not going to read any of them, in fact, until you're starting to think of where to go after the first adventure. I admit that I often make a "Bob the Fighter". Bob will rarely, if ever, tell me his backstory when i'm rolling the dice. Bob doesn't tell me his backstory when i'm putting in skills, though he may nudge here and there. No, Bob starts really talking after the first or second fight, when I see some detail that the GM tossed off in passing something and Bob starts telling me "You know, this reminds me of when I was young, when I lived in the southlands and..." I couldn't possibly make a character background before I started playing; I don't know it yet. I just met my character and i'm not familiar with them yet. Doesn't mean I don't RP them once I get in the groove.
Xenu 03-25-07, 03:44 PM	The mix does not HAVE to be a problem. And a on-the-fly character can evolve into a deep one. The problem is when you mix roleplayers and people who just want to play a analogous (non-digital) first person shooter. I once got thrown out of a group because I objected when one of the other "heroes" murdered a helpless captive and desecrated the corpse - on the one hand we was supposed to be the good guys, but on the other hand I "ruined the good mood" by actually roleplaying. It was a good choice to remove me fron that particular group, i really didn't fit in that group. The DM wasn't even into roleplaying games at all (so he claimed), he simply played to keep his friends together. We was five guys, and I didn't know three of them at all. The fourth was the one who brought me along, and he was also the only one besides me who had a real backstory and personality to his char. Anyway. I strongly reccomend AGAINST putting limits to the backstory, in either direction. One of my best chars was over 20 pages long. Another really cool character was made last minute, and didn't have any backstory or personality description at all at first. He turned out to be a really creepy guy, because the other players didn't bother roleplaying telling him what happened before I entered the campaign: My char was a telepath, so I decided he had simply spied on their thoughts. And why had he done that? Well, he turned out toe be the kind of creep who misuse his powers constantly, simply because he enjoys it and consider himself cool and superior. :D
Sphyre 03-26-07, 04:42 AM	Try this: The 10 Memories If someone wants to make 10 pages of backstory, I'm fine with that. It's the lack of character back story that bothers me.