Need help for my priestess of death. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Need help for my priestess of death. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Akordya
03-21-08, 12:03 PM I play a cleric/divine disciple of Kelemvor (level 15 now) who is starting to wonder if her convictions are still viable for her faith and I am wondering if a change of alignment or a change of faith is in order.

She started as a little novice very dedicated (read fanatic) to Kelemvor dogma. But the harsh reality she faced in her adventures, all the deaths and evil made her, with time, doubt her temple's vision of death. She now see death as something terrible and surrounded with much pain, suffering and sadness for she saw more tragic and violent deaths then natural ones (meaning by that death by old age, sickness). She feel she can no longer preach about death being without deceit, concealement or randomness. She also met a good undead (elven lich) and felt she could not be true to he temple's law that all undeads are abomination that have to be put to rest. For her, some have a place within the livings if it's for a good cause. She even created undeads in the past to help defend her village from raiders (that did not helped for her reputation) and another time to serve as guide through the underdark (created an intelligent undead from a necromancer drow she and friends defeated). Now that is totally against the kelemvorite vision.

She also enjoys maybe too much using her death touch power (repose domain) and other necromantic spells on the evil foes she had to battle against, to the dismay of her friends who are scared to see her turn to evil. But she never harmed an innocent and she is totally lawful-good in her actions, always tell the truth, never hesitate to be in danger to save a friend and even strangers like simple villagers, is generally very helpful and humble and always weight her actions to be sure they are for the greater good.

Now what to do with her? Is she still viable for a cleric of Kelemvor (but would be some kind of heretic?) or is a change of faith in order? I think she still is lawful-good because I cannot see anywhere in her actions where she did something wrong, even the undeads she created where put to rest as soon as their task were done. Now because of the undead creation she was denied her clerical powers by her god and now stands before a choice: repent and change or petition to another god like maybe Jergal? What would you do?
Ell
03-21-08, 07:54 PM I would consider this from the character point of view. She's still LG, but her views changed. I understand she doesn't feel any remorse about what she did and feels her actions were justified. Does it make it fair to seek atonement by Kelemvor? It doesn't. She can question the church doctrine, but she can't change it. It means the only availible option for her is to find another god, the one whose path she will be willing to follow.
The_Shaman
03-22-08, 04:38 AM Her alignment - whether you choose to portray it as LG or LN - is not a problem. Doubting her deity's dogma is - and a major one. Atonement only works if you realize you were wrong and return to the fold, and unless her beliefs change she won't be able to do that. Another deity such as Jergal may indeed be a better option.

OTOH, there's something bugging me about her description. So she considers death as inherently terrible and painful, is of good alignment, and yet enjoys using a death power on her enemies? That doesn't quite work out, imo. If she considers death so cruel, by the D&D description of good alignment she should not deliver it so lightly. Now, I know a few people who disagree, but the way I read D&D alignment it depends on what, and why, you do - not on whom you do it. Otherwise both sides in the Blood War would have redeemed themselves to exaltedness a long time ago ;)
Terjon of the Blue Rose
03-22-08, 07:09 AM The_Shaman made a good point on your apparent contradictions. Beyond that point all I would add is that Kelemvor should probably have cut off her powers immediately for even attempting to create undead. Accepting a rare good creature's existance he might turn a blind eye to but he shouldn't have granted her that power and certainly wouldn't tolerate a prayer for it.

As for the crisis of faith I would point that by Kelemvor's dogma even a violent and painful death is a release from this world. Those who are faithful and good reach a place of reward, and even those who are evil, if they venerate evil dieties, will pass on to places which will suite them. In either case there is no reason to fear death itself.

To truly shake ones faith in that kind of dogma the best points are the lich and/or encounters with other immortal beings. She would be questioning more the need for death than the wrongness of a painful one. If she is starting to think that perhaps death is unneccessary then she should definetly be looking for a new god. If she is just having trouble reconciling herself to the rightness of death, especially violent ones, then I would ask the DM about a quest to renew her faith. One that would allow her to encounter spririts from those who have passed on and now are at peace in their final rest. Perhaps a ritual that would allow her a chance to speak with long lost family in exchange for some special service to her church, such as the defeat, nay release, of a long-suffering ghost. Many clerics question from time to time. Those who survive such challenging of their faith are often far stronger than those who never question at all.
Akordya
03-23-08, 09:42 AM Thank you for the replies!

About (If she considers death so cruel, by the D&D description of good alignment she should not deliver it so lightly.) She doesn't deliver it too lightly, like I said, she use it only on evil foes and I mean by that truly evil foes with proof of their wickedness in the eye not shade of greys foes. She just does it with much exhaltation, the joy of knowing evil is defeated today, but instead of hacking at them with her bastard sword (Kelemvor's favored weapon) she use death spells, and she likes using them. Of course, prayer of departure and proper burial is made afterwards.

I think it's more on her views of undeath that I am bugged. Kelemvor is pretty strict about it, they are all abominations. This weekend's game session help me a lot for my character's development, our GM made a big sidetreck in our campaign with an Expedition to Castle Ravenloft using relics of the morninglord adventure hooks (we have a pally of Lathander in the group). My priestess end up keeping vigil in the castle's chapel and been honored with becoming a knight of the raven (prestige class devoted to fighting evil and undeads). Now the irony is that it was the ghost of Lady Vey Rallen who passed on this heritage to her (and others in group interested and meeting requirements). So it strenghten her belief that there are some rare good undeads in the world that should not be put to rest on sight. To make a short story (we played friday and saturday all day), she ended up petitioning with Jergal since he accept lawful-good priests.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Akordya 03-21-08, 12:03 PM	I play a cleric/divine disciple of Kelemvor (level 15 now) who is starting to wonder if her convictions are still viable for her faith and I am wondering if a change of alignment or a change of faith is in order. She started as a little novice very dedicated (read fanatic) to Kelemvor dogma. But the harsh reality she faced in her adventures, all the deaths and evil made her, with time, doubt her temple's vision of death. She now see death as something terrible and surrounded with much pain, suffering and sadness for she saw more tragic and violent deaths then natural ones (meaning by that death by old age, sickness). She feel she can no longer preach about death being without deceit, concealement or randomness. She also met a good undead (elven lich) and felt she could not be true to he temple's law that all undeads are abomination that have to be put to rest. For her, some have a place within the livings if it's for a good cause. She even created undeads in the past to help defend her village from raiders (that did not helped for her reputation) and another time to serve as guide through the underdark (created an intelligent undead from a necromancer drow she and friends defeated). Now that is totally against the kelemvorite vision. She also enjoys maybe too much using her death touch power (repose domain) and other necromantic spells on the evil foes she had to battle against, to the dismay of her friends who are scared to see her turn to evil. But she never harmed an innocent and she is totally lawful-good in her actions, always tell the truth, never hesitate to be in danger to save a friend and even strangers like simple villagers, is generally very helpful and humble and always weight her actions to be sure they are for the greater good. Now what to do with her? Is she still viable for a cleric of Kelemvor (but would be some kind of heretic?) or is a change of faith in order? I think she still is lawful-good because I cannot see anywhere in her actions where she did something wrong, even the undeads she created where put to rest as soon as their task were done. Now because of the undead creation she was denied her clerical powers by her god and now stands before a choice: repent and change or petition to another god like maybe Jergal? What would you do?
Ell 03-21-08, 07:54 PM	I would consider this from the character point of view. She's still LG, but her views changed. I understand she doesn't feel any remorse about what she did and feels her actions were justified. Does it make it fair to seek atonement by Kelemvor? It doesn't. She can question the church doctrine, but she can't change it. It means the only availible option for her is to find another god, the one whose path she will be willing to follow.
The_Shaman 03-22-08, 04:38 AM	Her alignment - whether you choose to portray it as LG or LN - is not a problem. Doubting her deity's dogma is - and a major one. Atonement only works if you realize you were wrong and return to the fold, and unless her beliefs change she won't be able to do that. Another deity such as Jergal may indeed be a better option. OTOH, there's something bugging me about her description. So she considers death as inherently terrible and painful, is of good alignment, and yet enjoys using a death power on her enemies? That doesn't quite work out, imo. If she considers death so cruel, by the D&D description of good alignment she should not deliver it so lightly. Now, I know a few people who disagree, but the way I read D&D alignment it depends on what, and why, you do - not on whom you do it. Otherwise both sides in the Blood War would have redeemed themselves to exaltedness a long time ago ;)
Terjon of the Blue Rose 03-22-08, 07:09 AM	The_Shaman made a good point on your apparent contradictions. Beyond that point all I would add is that Kelemvor should probably have cut off her powers immediately for even attempting to create undead. Accepting a rare good creature's existance he might turn a blind eye to but he shouldn't have granted her that power and certainly wouldn't tolerate a prayer for it. As for the crisis of faith I would point that by Kelemvor's dogma even a violent and painful death is a release from this world. Those who are faithful and good reach a place of reward, and even those who are evil, if they venerate evil dieties, will pass on to places which will suite them. In either case there is no reason to fear death itself. To truly shake ones faith in that kind of dogma the best points are the lich and/or encounters with other immortal beings. She would be questioning more the need for death than the wrongness of a painful one. If she is starting to think that perhaps death is unneccessary then she should definetly be looking for a new god. If she is just having trouble reconciling herself to the rightness of death, especially violent ones, then I would ask the DM about a quest to renew her faith. One that would allow her to encounter spririts from those who have passed on and now are at peace in their final rest. Perhaps a ritual that would allow her a chance to speak with long lost family in exchange for some special service to her church, such as the defeat, nay release, of a long-suffering ghost. Many clerics question from time to time. Those who survive such challenging of their faith are often far stronger than those who never question at all.
Akordya 03-23-08, 09:42 AM	Thank you for the replies! About (If she considers death so cruel, by the D&D description of good alignment she should not deliver it so lightly.) She doesn't deliver it too lightly, like I said, she use it only on evil foes and I mean by that truly evil foes with proof of their wickedness in the eye not shade of greys foes. She just does it with much exhaltation, the joy of knowing evil is defeated today, but instead of hacking at them with her bastard sword (Kelemvor's favored weapon) she use death spells, and she likes using them. Of course, prayer of departure and proper burial is made afterwards. I think it's more on her views of undeath that I am bugged. Kelemvor is pretty strict about it, they are all abominations. This weekend's game session help me a lot for my character's development, our GM made a big sidetreck in our campaign with an Expedition to Castle Ravenloft using relics of the morninglord adventure hooks (we have a pally of Lathander in the group). My priestess end up keeping vigil in the castle's chapel and been honored with becoming a knight of the raven (prestige class devoted to fighting evil and undeads). Now the irony is that it was the ghost of Lady Vey Rallen who passed on this heritage to her (and others in group interested and meeting requirements). So it strenghten her belief that there are some rare good undeads in the world that should not be put to rest on sight. To make a short story (we played friday and saturday all day), she ended up petitioning with Jergal since he accept lawful-good priests.