Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Arthur_Pendragon 06-24-04, 05:16 PM	I recently began serious work on trying to make a real in depth character to roleplay for a coming good aligned campaign. This all started after reading Galahad's Guide to Holisitic Heros (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=176982) I realized the reason I've been so unahppy with many of my characters for quite some time, was that I simply built them too much around mechanics and power, and nearly nothing story or "character" wise. So I decided this time I wanted it to be different and set out to make a better character, but now I'm struggling. When crafting this character I made use of optional rules from Unearthed Arcana. First I started with a character concept, a LG Illusionist who hates enchantment magic as it robs its victims of their free will. Seems simple enough . . . *sigh*. So I imagined he had a rivalry with a self-centered CE mage apprentice who was charismatic and Galen (my PC) hated him because this CE enchanter constantly used his Charisma and enchantment magic to lie and manipulate other people. Further I imaged that Galen had an attraction to a young lady in their village (but never had the heart to tell her, since he was shy), meanwhile said CE apprentice used his personal charm (and Galen suspects his enchantment magic) to seduce her. So said lass marries CE enchanter (who only wants her for her money and body but she doesn't see that for all his charming ways). And after their married CE enchanter eventually becomes phsyically abusive (and yet thanks to his magic and the way he has with othe people in the village she feels she has no choice but to stay in the marriage). Additionally I though Galen could be the mysterious type, maybe his shyness, his love of illusions lead him to sorround himself with magic because he feels he lacks the charm and way with people his long time rival has. Though I felt he would enjoy entertaining and aweing people with illusionary displays (perhaps because it gives him attention that he would otherwise never gain, so he likes being flamboyant a bit with magic) and he covers his shyness with magic and creates a sense of the mysterious (which ironically attracts some people to him even more which is why in totallity his Chaisma is 15, despite being shy and definately not outgoing). My only trouble is I realized that illusion magic is all about deceiving the eyes, ears, the mind, etc. And even the PHB nods in that direction by pointing out most illusionists tend toward Chaotic alignments (portraying illusion magic as all about deciption). But I find that conflicts with the image of Galen being a LG character who hates his charming and enchanting rival (who is all about deceiving good people by playing himself as a good person when in fact he is selfish and mean) and thus Galen hates liars and people who decieve for their own selfish gain, why would he working with illusionary magic (if its all about deception) at all then?! :(
Murmos 06-24-04, 07:25 PM	Perhaps he wants to prove illusions can be used for noble, honorable purposes. His CE rival would only cement his feelings about this goal. Entertainment is a perfectly honorable use for illusions. Also, good implies the use of violence as a last resort. If his illusions allow the group to capture an enemy rather than kill them, Galen has proven at least the G in his alignment. EDIT: Ooops, forgot he was an enchanter. Ah well . . . just replace that with proving mind-affecting magic can be used for good purposes.
Arthur_Pendragon 06-24-04, 11:48 PM	While you have a good point about entertaining. I kinda imagine him using his illusionary magic to still kill his foes, sometimes, like with the use of Phatasmal Killer. Plus his forbidden schools are Necromancy (because its dark vile magic) and Enchantment (because of the above reasons). So Evocation is still on his list, and he will probably mix up evocation with illusions to confuse his foes that way in battle. I thought vaugely about the idea of him seeing his illusions as a magical art, not merely deceiving or cheating (and he wouldn't use it to cheat someone out of money for example), but rather like an Archmage might see "The Art" of magic as a whole, he sees illusions and intellegent uses of illusions to out wit his foes as both a magical art and a way of proving he is smarter than his foes. He has also taken the feat Arcane Defense (Illusions) which grants him a +2 on his saves vs illusions and his Wis is 17, suppased only by his 18 Int. Any other further suggestions? Or could anyone take the ideas I just mentioned here and run with it and see if we come up with any good ideas?
Rurik_Torunn 06-25-04, 03:10 AM	Well, killing foes is perfectly OK for LG aligned characters, as long as they are evil (the foes of course). It doesn't really matter by which means you fight them, as long as you make sure you won't hurt any innocent people. Some thoughts on becoming a LG illusionist: -) Your character could have discovered his affinity to illusions before he was LG and swiched his alignment, when seeing what evil purposes magic (necromancy, enchantments) was used for. Now he is using his abilities to fight evil whenever possible. Though Illusions would probably not be the first choice for a mage who wants to help other people, he will likely see very soon how much he can help them with his talents. -) Maybe your character thinks that evil people usually do not possess a strong will. "That's why they couldn't resist the temptation of evil." Given this opinion and the fact, that enchantment's are also likely to be evil, he might see illusions as the best way, to make use of this weakness. -) Illusions are probably the best way, to end a fight before it begins and thus the "most peaceful way of fighting". If your character wants to defend - well whatever he wants to defend (friends, family, good people in general) - without bloodshed if possible, that's the perfect way. However, if this doesn't stop his foes he might feel free to use any given means to defeat them. Couldn't come up with better ideas, but I hope this helps a bit.
Trydan 06-25-04, 09:26 AM	"Illusions" and "lawful" can still go together. For example, cinema, can be a real-life example of creating illusions in order to entertain (a concept that is consistent with LG). Of course, there is also a lot of cinema which is propaganda - still lawful, but definitely not good. Examples of LG illusions include anasthetics and aeroplane training simulators. Advertising is a borderline case (in my opinion), but it could be argued... The alignment does not come from the action, but the intentions. Look to the intentions, rather than the actual actions. That will help you find alignment consistency.
Arthur_Pendragon 06-25-04, 03:05 PM	Originally posted by Trydan "Illusions" and "lawful" can still go together. . . The alignment does not come from the action, but the intentions. Look to the intentions, rather than the actual actions. That will help you find alignment consistency. Thanks. In a way I think this was kinda the thing I wanted to hear in some ways, because it puts aside Illusions as automatically choatic. . . and it expands in some ways LG isn't quite LN or lawful, Lawful, LAWFUL good. So that a Lawful Good character who isn't a paladin has manuverability in the lawful aspects of his alignment, so that he isn't some perfect embodiment of the law. . . Thanks for the posts everybody, you've been a great help!
Passionateapathy 07-05-04, 02:22 PM	Arg... I can't think of the word... but basically what about him being so passionate about good that he doesn't always realize he's ALSO being manipulative.... then he can swear to do better.. and constantly fail to achieve the 'proper' level of Lawful Goodness... alternately/additionally, he could justify things by saying 'the ends justify the means' and since HIS intent isn't selfish it's ok.. whereas his enemy's is selvish it's bad b