Need idea for the leading member of "anti-PC" group. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Need idea for the leading member of "anti-PC" group. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Critical Mass
09-03-04, 04:59 AM I'm soon to start DMing a game in which a big focus will be placed on a trio of NPCs designed to be rivals of the main PC group. A little background first..

The campaign will generally be centered around a huge, decadent city that serves as a hub for a large majority of the adventuring world (which is approx. on the same power-level as FR). In a city mainly built to cater to adventurers, merchants, and various unscrupulous types, the more "colorful" races are by nature treated a whole lot better than they would be in the standard town or village. This encourages even more members of such races to leave the surrounding areas to enter the more welcoming city, so seeing something like a smithy full of half-ogres or a stable run by an air mephling isn't exactly an uncommon sight. On their first visit to this city, the PCs will run into another group of adventurers with a rather similiar goal who takes the PCs under its wing and shows them the ropes, so to speak. This trio of adventurers will be a recurring group throughout the entire campaign, taking jobs the PCs pass up or don't find out about and evolving to reflect this. Though they are technically competing for resources with each other in an already crowded environment, they retain a good-natured relationship and a sort of friendly rivalry with the PCs.

Or so it appears..

The third member of the group is a Lawful Neutral Blue Dragonspawn* Human Fighter/Barbarian. He was taken in by the two others when his "creator" and enslavor was killed as a result of the group's actions. He has no reason to believe that his fellow companions are evil in any way, and is the only one of the group to have an honestly good-natured friendship with the PCs.

The second member is a Neutral Evil dwarvern wizard/fighter/runesmith/eldrich knight/spellsword/knight of the thorn "mage warrior" type. He and the leader have been together since the beginning and make a habit of befriending naive adventuring groups, showing them on the path to the best and most lucrative jobs, and them swiftly eliminating them while their backs are turned to pull in huge quantities of wealth. They also do extensive adventures of their own, more often than not involving plane hopping, further increasing their power and wealth.

The only problem is, I'm at a complete block as to what the leader should be. They already have one great all-around fighter and a damn good backup fighter who can cover the arcane needs. I'd like for the leader to be a good talker with high Bluff/Diplomacy/etc. while also being strong on the front line and in a class that allows a good amount of min/maxing (the group will advance at a slightly faster rate than the actual PC group, and by level 15 or so I'd like a single member of the NPC group to be a match for the whole party of four). The natural choice would be either a cleric or druid, with a Cleric with the Trickery domain seeming like a perfect choice, but I'd also like to keep the exotic theme going. Some ideas I had were a half-fiend cleric type, or a corrupted druid who fights in wildshape form to take advantage of his added Vile damage, but nothing I can come up with is really standing out with enough oomph to lead this group of backstabbing fiends. I turn now to the board, asking for any ideas at all for a smooth-talking, combat-capable (meaning no bards or the like; a psion or other physically weak class with strong non-physical attacks would qualify), scheming leader type who isn't too generic or "ordinary." I plan on him always having a hat of disguise either on his head or in his pack, so between that and the general location fitting in shouldn't be a problem for almost anything. Any and all 3e and 3.5e supplements and campaign material is allowed, as any campaign-specific material can be modified for the world.

..any help?

*As this is a Greyhawk-ish custom setting instead of Dragonlance, the method of creation is obviously different. The mechanical aspects, however, are the same.
jnrhayz
09-03-04, 10:14 AM The best bet for the leader would be a cleric. Probably a cleric of vecna if you are using that pantheon. Probably Neutral Evil or Lawful Evil.

Edit: I forgot to put I would go with a straight human. A human would be exotic in that group.
Krog_the_Destroyer
09-06-04, 03:55 AM Well, Hexblade14/kensia6
improved familiar, take a winter wolf, and the mounted combat tree, its nasty
Morka
09-06-04, 10:41 AM I could suggest you the class you didn't want: a bard. Actually, a bard/dragon disciple, you can't have better for a smooth-talker (all the skills adding synergy to Diplomacy are class-skill for a bard). If you want more punch as physical attack, add some levels of fighter or barbarian or both. For the dragon disciple, be a blue dragon, this way you will be both similar and different to the blue Dragonspawn.

As for the race, I would avoid fiendish or half-fiend ones. Even in an adventurers city, they are too "evil". Actually, why not being an Aasimar? What a best foe than one you think is usually good aligned?
amethal
09-08-04, 07:49 AM As for the race, I would avoid fiendish or half-fiend ones. Even in an adventurers city, they are too "evil". Actually, why not being an Aasimar? What a best foe than one you think is usually good aligned?
It would be great to have a half-fiend.

The players could marvel at how tolerant and cosmopolitan this city really is, where a half-fiend is allowed to make his own way in the world, and it just goes to show how if you avoid "labelling" people as "evil" based on their parentage they can turn out to be good guys. (Unless of course you have players who are in the labelling habit - doesn't matter if one or two of the CHARACTERS don't trust him, to the despair of their more enlightened colleagues.)

They could even go for the sympathy vote; having the dragonspawn initially reluctant to introduce the PCs to the third party member "because sometimes people react badly when they meet him, and it breaks his heart", unless you think that would be laying it on a bit thick.

Then, when it turns out to have been a double bluff, and the half-fiend really is an evil schemer, and the pig headed dwarf who never trusted him (despite all the evidence he was a good guy) was actually right, you can explain to the players that of course being a half-fiend doesn't mean you are NOT evil either!

As to classes, I'd say the party needs a rogue. Could even be an assassin, so long as you are willing to potentially subject the party to death attacks.
Ectoplasmoid
09-08-04, 11:18 AM S'funny- i was going to suggest a monk/asn or rog/asn/(Invisible Blade)/(Master Thrower) myself- double knife throwing 'cause it's cool. I suggest Kobold for a race, because after all, who fears a Kobold- until it's too late, that is? :D
Lanoitakude
09-08-04, 10:59 PM Consider making him a half-fiend PsyWar. Get decent mental ability scores, and use powers to effect minds. You can get some very big "scary" factor at high levels when the bad guy uses Form of Doom.

I like the previously mentioned idea for Cleric of Vecna. The god of secrets makes for great villainy and style.

Maybe a *insert race* Favored Soul of Nerull. He'd be a scythe weilding harbinger of death!

A very very evil druid could be cool too, one that believes himself to be the ultimate predator. Anyone he kills, he eats. Go for some fearsome wild shape (lions, tigers, or bears...oh my!). Utilize the more brutal druid spells found in many of the books (Drown, Miasma, Quill Blast, Decomposition, etc).

Just throwing out some ideas.
Tsuyoshi500
09-09-04, 03:43 PM I would suggest a Drow Rogue with a penchant for traps, a staff of healing and a ring of blinking. Just be sure to bleed off the level adjustment. That should make the players real cranky to have to take him on alone, and he'll have the diplomacy needed. Plus, the trap-setting will give a different tone in battle, which can be refreshing once in a while, especially for the DM.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Critical Mass 09-03-04, 04:59 AM	I'm soon to start DMing a game in which a big focus will be placed on a trio of NPCs designed to be rivals of the main PC group. A little background first.. The campaign will generally be centered around a huge, decadent city that serves as a hub for a large majority of the adventuring world (which is approx. on the same power-level as FR). In a city mainly built to cater to adventurers, merchants, and various unscrupulous types, the more "colorful" races are by nature treated a whole lot better than they would be in the standard town or village. This encourages even more members of such races to leave the surrounding areas to enter the more welcoming city, so seeing something like a smithy full of half-ogres or a stable run by an air mephling isn't exactly an uncommon sight. On their first visit to this city, the PCs will run into another group of adventurers with a rather similiar goal who takes the PCs under its wing and shows them the ropes, so to speak. This trio of adventurers will be a recurring group throughout the entire campaign, taking jobs the PCs pass up or don't find out about and evolving to reflect this. Though they are technically competing for resources with each other in an already crowded environment, they retain a good-natured relationship and a sort of friendly rivalry with the PCs. Or so it appears.. The third member of the group is a Lawful Neutral Blue Dragonspawn* Human Fighter/Barbarian. He was taken in by the two others when his "creator" and enslavor was killed as a result of the group's actions. He has no reason to believe that his fellow companions are evil in any way, and is the only one of the group to have an honestly good-natured friendship with the PCs. The second member is a Neutral Evil dwarvern wizard/fighter/runesmith/eldrich knight/spellsword/knight of the thorn "mage warrior" type. He and the leader have been together since the beginning and make a habit of befriending naive adventuring groups, showing them on the path to the best and most lucrative jobs, and them swiftly eliminating them while their backs are turned to pull in huge quantities of wealth. They also do extensive adventures of their own, more often than not involving plane hopping, further increasing their power and wealth. The only problem is, I'm at a complete block as to what the leader should be. They already have one great all-around fighter and a damn good backup fighter who can cover the arcane needs. I'd like for the leader to be a good talker with high Bluff/Diplomacy/etc. while also being strong on the front line and in a class that allows a good amount of min/maxing (the group will advance at a slightly faster rate than the actual PC group, and by level 15 or so I'd like a single member of the NPC group to be a match for the whole party of four). The natural choice would be either a cleric or druid, with a Cleric with the Trickery domain seeming like a perfect choice, but I'd also like to keep the exotic theme going. Some ideas I had were a half-fiend cleric type, or a corrupted druid who fights in wildshape form to take advantage of his added Vile damage, but nothing I can come up with is really standing out with enough oomph to lead this group of backstabbing fiends. I turn now to the board, asking for any ideas at all for a smooth-talking, combat-capable (meaning no bards or the like; a psion or other physically weak class with strong non-physical attacks would qualify), scheming leader type who isn't too generic or "ordinary." I plan on him always having a hat of disguise either on his head or in his pack, so between that and the general location fitting in shouldn't be a problem for almost anything. Any and all 3e and 3.5e supplements and campaign material is allowed, as any campaign-specific material can be modified for the world. ..any help? *As this is a Greyhawk-ish custom setting instead of Dragonlance, the method of creation is obviously different. The mechanical aspects, however, are the same.
jnrhayz 09-03-04, 10:14 AM	The best bet for the leader would be a cleric. Probably a cleric of vecna if you are using that pantheon. Probably Neutral Evil or Lawful Evil. Edit: I forgot to put I would go with a straight human. A human would be exotic in that group.
Krog_the_Destroyer 09-06-04, 03:55 AM	Well, Hexblade14/kensia6 improved familiar, take a winter wolf, and the mounted combat tree, its nasty
Morka 09-06-04, 10:41 AM	I could suggest you the class you didn't want: a bard. Actually, a bard/dragon disciple, you can't have better for a smooth-talker (all the skills adding synergy to Diplomacy are class-skill for a bard). If you want more punch as physical attack, add some levels of fighter or barbarian or both. For the dragon disciple, be a blue dragon, this way you will be both similar and different to the blue Dragonspawn. As for the race, I would avoid fiendish or half-fiend ones. Even in an adventurers city, they are too "evil". Actually, why not being an Aasimar? What a best foe than one you think is usually good aligned?
amethal 09-08-04, 07:49 AM	As for the race, I would avoid fiendish or half-fiend ones. Even in an adventurers city, they are too "evil". Actually, why not being an Aasimar? What a best foe than one you think is usually good aligned? It would be great to have a half-fiend. The players could marvel at how tolerant and cosmopolitan this city really is, where a half-fiend is allowed to make his own way in the world, and it just goes to show how if you avoid "labelling" people as "evil" based on their parentage they can turn out to be good guys. (Unless of course you have players who are in the labelling habit - doesn't matter if one or two of the CHARACTERS don't trust him, to the despair of their more enlightened colleagues.) They could even go for the sympathy vote; having the dragonspawn initially reluctant to introduce the PCs to the third party member "because sometimes people react badly when they meet him, and it breaks his heart", unless you think that would be laying it on a bit thick. Then, when it turns out to have been a double bluff, and the half-fiend really is an evil schemer, and the pig headed dwarf who never trusted him (despite all the evidence he was a good guy) was actually right, you can explain to the players that of course being a half-fiend doesn't mean you are NOT evil either! As to classes, I'd say the party needs a rogue. Could even be an assassin, so long as you are willing to potentially subject the party to death attacks.
Ectoplasmoid 09-08-04, 11:18 AM	S'funny- i was going to suggest a monk/asn or rog/asn/(Invisible Blade)/(Master Thrower) myself- double knife throwing 'cause it's cool. I suggest Kobold for a race, because after all, who fears a Kobold- until it's too late, that is? :D
Lanoitakude 09-08-04, 10:59 PM	Consider making him a half-fiend PsyWar. Get decent mental ability scores, and use powers to effect minds. You can get some very big "scary" factor at high levels when the bad guy uses Form of Doom. I like the previously mentioned idea for Cleric of Vecna. The god of secrets makes for great villainy and style. Maybe a insert race Favored Soul of Nerull. He'd be a scythe weilding harbinger of death! A very very evil druid could be cool too, one that believes himself to be the ultimate predator. Anyone he kills, he eats. Go for some fearsome wild shape (lions, tigers, or bears...oh my!). Utilize the more brutal druid spells found in many of the books (Drown, Miasma, Quill Blast, Decomposition, etc). Just throwing out some ideas.
Tsuyoshi500 09-09-04, 03:43 PM	I would suggest a Drow Rogue with a penchant for traps, a staff of healing and a ring of blinking. Just be sure to bleed off the level adjustment. That should make the players real cranky to have to take him on alone, and he'll have the diplomacy needed. Plus, the trap-setting will give a different tone in battle, which can be refreshing once in a while, especially for the DM.