Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lord Zeb 12-30-05, 11:04 PM	Howdy folks, My groups main game over the last few years has been the adventures of the Big Three Iconics in our homebrew - my portion of that trinity is Charlton "Chuck" , former King of Frizia, Archmage, Consort to the Elven Queen, Adventurer, Hero -- etc etc. Chuck started off as a half-elven NG Fighter/Wizard in 2e, but after the first session I knew he was really LN -- not "law" abiding Lawful, but "disciplined" Lawful -- and not a goody goody. He hasn't ever shied away from doing little evil to further big good goals, hence the neutral. He's a from the gutter type that ascended the throne in the early teen levels, then promptly lost it a few years later to another claimant (well, surrendered, not lost). Now in 3e he's a Fighter/Wizard/Spellguard/Archmage of 19th level - and recently in game time he was Mindraped while defenses were down by an evil Banite Wizard, keeping his core disciplined self untouched, but creating a new backstory of working with the Banite empire to the north as a spy and shifting over to Lawful Evil. The thing is, the neighboring elven nation he is staying in is soon to receive assistance from the kingdom he used to run, his half-brother (they are not on good terms) sending troops to help after a demon assault. My GM asked how Chuck would feel if the elven nation becomes more and more of a part of the larger Kingdom -- and I'm not sure. LN Chuck was all in favor the main Kingdom and Elven and Dwarven nations coming together, but LE Chuck might be more inclined to be the leader in any kind of coalition, but all signs (and scrying) have shown the half-brother to be a solid ruler so far. Would a LE spy-for-Bane just off the brother and reassume the throne after the epic quest is done? Or would he be the do-whatever-it-takes Warlord of the Crown? Or maybe as a genius level intellect play both sides to further himself? Looking for opinions, thanks!
Sluagh 12-31-05, 12:56 AM	Would a LE spy-for-Bane just off the brother and reassume the throne after the epic quest is done? Or would he be the do-whatever-it-takes Warlord of the Crown? Or maybe as a genius level intellect play both sides to further himself? The last option you give seems most likely. Simply offing the opposing leader isn't really LE style, doing whatever it takes is a bit on the chaotic side... I would think that he would try to manoeuver the situation to his greatest benefit, reducing his brother's position and probably preventing the alliance (if that is in his current interests), perhaps even scheming to bring the Elves to ally with him. Being Lawful, he'd tend to work within the system to gain his ends. Just my thoughts.
Lord Zeb 01-02-06, 12:56 PM	Thanks for your thoughts - working within the system is what I am leaning towards -- having the elves ally with his brothers kingdom could serve to further his own goals (help the people of the South, spy for the Banites - which is one of the Mindrape provisions). I could see him settling in as Warlord of the united kingdoms, technically under his brothers control, but doing the dirty work of keeping the kingdom safe, while playing the Banites to further his own goals. It'll definitely be hard to pull off though. I guess it all depends on how his brother approaches the unification...
Sluagh 01-02-06, 02:06 PM	The harder to pull off, the more rewarding :) Good luck.
Rudysseus 01-07-06, 12:22 AM	He could also attempt to make amends with his brother, and agree to act as his advisor (since he likely has a great intelligence score), and perhaps begin to wield power that way. By influencing or guiding his brother decisions, he in essence has a measure of control over the entire kingdom. He could also go along the same course and try to subtly influence the actions of the Elven (or even Dwarven) ruler, as you said he is the consort of the Elven Queen. With that in mind, he could also convince her not to ally with that country unless your PC was put back in charge. Whether that is simply thru manipulating her trust in you or thru charms and magic, is a choice I leave to you. Overall, as lawful evil, I'd think you'd want to make the existing situation work as much in your favor as you possibly could. Figuring out a way to make yourself indisposable to all the major parties, until they realize YOU are the one in true control, and usually by then its a bit too late to do anything about it without really disrupting the status quo, and causing more chaos. :schemes:
Sluagh 01-07-06, 12:32 AM	He could also attempt to make amends with his brother, and agree to act as his advisor (since he likely has a great intelligence score), and perhaps begin to wield power that way. By influencing or guiding his brother decisions, he in essence has a measure of control over the entire kingdom. He could also go along the same course and try to subtly influence the actions of the Elven (or even Dwarven) ruler, as you said he is the consort of the Elven Queen. With that in mind, he could also convince her not to ally with that country unless your PC was put back in charge. Whether that is simply thru manipulating her trust in you or thru charms and magic, is a choice I leave to you. Overall, as lawful evil, I'd think you'd want to make the existing situation work as much in your favor as you possibly could. Figuring out a way to make yourself indisposable to all the major parties, until they realize YOU are the one in true control, and usually by then its a bit too late to do anything about it without really disrupting the status quo, and causing more chaos. :schemes: Basically play Grima Wormtongue :)
Fox Lee 01-08-06, 02:35 AM	Evil visier, evil visier! Manipulating your leader of choice is probably the best wasy to go for LE. Especially since it means you can let him take the fall instead of you, if things go seriously wrong. On the other hand - and I admit, I like this type better - you could be noble evil. Let's say there is a particular individual in the Banite empire who has somehow won your gritty, gutter-born respect - the emperor/empress themselves, a general, the wizard, whoever (maybe even pick somebody who's not evil themselves, possibly quite innocent - twisted devotion is such fun). It's easy to imagine a Lawful Evil character who has such faith in an individual - or in themselves, if you don't like the devotion idea - that they believe this individual is the only one who can rule "correctly". You support the kingdoms' growing closeness because as long as they remain separated, they cannot be united under your one true king/queen/emperor/whatever - which is, of course, the way things should be. And, like everybody in such times, you must make sacrifices - of course you don't wish for bloodshed, but you must do whatever needs to be done to bring about the rule of this individual. It's for the best. Just a thought. I like twisted-good villains :p
Lord Zeb 01-08-06, 12:35 PM	Twisted-good villain is what I'm running him as right now - for his 18 levels of LN, he was the guy who would do what it took, but tried not to cross certain lines of behavior that would have swung him towards evil. He performed small evil in support of the greater Good. Now that he is LE, I am thinking he's willing to do big Evil in support of the greater Good, but it'll come out twisted more often than not. LN Chuck was Disciplined, Charming, Devoted to the people LE Chuck is Disciplined, Charming, Devoted to the people, Beholden to Merithia and Ruthless One of his mentors while he was King was the Royal Wizard, Tyresius, who is now advising his brother. The Banites cloned Tyresius, and that evil version is who mindraped Chuck into being a secret agent for the Banite empire. He has great respect for Tyresius, and after the Mindrape, I would imagine the same for Manfred, the clone. I like the idea of Chuck making amends with his brother and retiring as Warlord of the united South, under his brother, while keeping Merithia (the Banites) informed, playing them to support "his" people... kinda Dr Doom-ish I guess, except he won't be the supreme ruler of the kingdom. In a renewed position of power, he could work out a non-agression and trade treaty with Merithia, which would help "his people" and "his Merithian allies". That is if he can convince the brother to forget their not so great history and accept him in that position of power. It's pretty complex to play out, but we'll have to see how the Big Finale treats the PCs - we are trying to stop the BBEG from ascending to godhood after he stole the 9 Great Weapons (Major Artifacts) over the last decade. My GM has dropped hints that if/when we defeat him, we could use the device ourselves... or one of us could ... or we could disassemble and "own" all of the GWs. :cool: LE Chuck as a God? I'm not so sure, he's set to marry the Elven queen in about 6 months game time, and wants to continue to defend the people - though that second part would be well done if he WERE a god. I have to give mad props to our GM for pulling us toward this conclusion after running this campaign off-and-on for the last six or so years (we took a few looong breaks as life interfered, or we ran other campaigns).
Cifer 01-09-06, 07:17 PM	Im of course everything but sure about your actual situation, but what about this one: Prove useful to your dear brother, become trusted - and arrange for escalation of a conflict somewhere, maybe with your baneguys (depending on how much influence you have at which places). What to do then depends: 1.) Convince your dear brother that you are the best warlord there is and fight that war. Because of the hard-to-beat enemy you of course need additional privilegues... and since you are almost sure there is an insider-spy somewhere on the communication line, you can not be made to report to the king, which would make your brilliant tactics known to the enemy... and because of the enemy reinforcements you shall need additional troops, where of course your most loyal units will be sent home to 'guard' the king who is, as you have heard, in immediate danger of an assassination attempt. If you can influence the enemy (your secret baniteallies) to grant you a greatlooking victory, you can come home as a hero of war - and your troops might decide after a few careful suggestions that you are indeed the better ruler. With the true monarch already in the hands of your own forces, that completes the coup, since you will of course find proof that your predecessor indeed conspirated with the enemy. And yep, I do like that Palpatine guy. :cool: 2.) Suggest that the monarch leads his troops into battle and make sure that he becomes the victim of an assassination. Although in deep grief about the tragic fate of your beloved brother, you manage to turn the tide of the war. Rest as above, except for the fact that there is noone you have to throw into prison. Your problem might yet be the fact that your banites might have other ideas about who should rule, so you have to convince them that you are the best one for the job of keeping the land quiet.