Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Mystikal 06-23-03, 01:16 PM	Okay I think it is time that we let the family/village killed by Orcs background story die. I mean come on people we have the monster manual/II/fiend folio/book of vile darkness. There is more evil out there than Orcs. I mean for starters we have all the types of undead out there. And one more question, what is wrong with characters that have had happy childhoods, granted you may have to be a little more creative with the background story, but any roleplayer worth his dice is creative enough to think of a decent background story. What do you guys think?
The Deceiver 06-23-03, 02:38 PM	Agreed. That "orcs burnt my village, and I'm gonna kick 'em in da nuts for that" things is incredibly clicheed and should be avoided at all costs. And yes, even a wholly happy and troubleless childhood can force you to become an adventurer -- out of boredom, I suppose :smirk:
Mystikal 06-23-03, 03:34 PM	you could be a perfectly happy person that decided to adventure to follow in your fathers footsteps. Or you heard about some hero and he became your idol and you decided you want to be just like him. You might just be curious about what is out there and just decided to take a look for yourself and got involved in an adventure! So many possibilites. DOWN WITH ORC STORY!!! DOWN WITH ORC STORY!!! DOWN WITH ORC STORY!!!
Kexizzoc 06-23-03, 10:14 PM	Seems a bit like the Drizz't clone armies; if a player wants to be a scimitar-wielding drow ranger, that's not necessarily bad, it's the intention that counts. If he really wants to be a unique character, that's one thing... if he starts quoting moves from the books, that's a problem. :D Likewise, if he has a whole story where, as he fled the burning wreckage of his village, he sees an ogre with a blood-red rune sword standing over the corpse of his father... their eyes meet, and the ogre laughs and turns back into the flames, and the PC flees; forever shall he seek vengence against the Fire-eyes clan and their rune-sword weilding chieftain! I'd say that's a good story. Walking that fine line between roleplaying and rollplaying...
Mr. VanderMeer 06-24-03, 05:54 AM	So, what if I play a half-orc, raised by orcs, whose entire family was killed by humans?
hiryuu 06-24-03, 06:01 AM	I've got a character I'm not currently playing with a happy, well-adjusted childhood. She just has this four year gap between then and now, though. She's constantly thinking about her childhood, searchng for anything that can be linked to the gap. The more she finds out, the more sinister her parents seem to become. Her hometown still stands, though her house is empty save for a few old things buried in the dust in the closets.
Mystikal 06-24-03, 09:23 AM	lol@vandermeer hiryuu that sounds like it can get interesting.
Tzor 06-24-03, 10:42 AM	No more orc? :eek: Who will guard the pie? :confused: Oh wait, this thread isn't about pie. ;) Personaly I have never had any of my character's family members killed by orcs. Ever. And I don't intend on starting it. (Did have one die from a vampire once ... but not the whole family, just dad, regent of the land.)
Baron Phylos 06-25-03, 02:35 AM	Orcs aren't the culprits, the "vendetta" cliche is. It doesn't matter if it's Orcs, Hill Giants, Sabertooth halflings or even the Respectable Order of Warlocks of the 95th circle of Nazraki. Logic: "What's your motivation for wandering to random ruins after hearing a rumor of untold riches, helping villagers who have trouble with Dire Rats clogging their well and more importantly, travelling with the ragtag group of people who constitute your party?" Vendetta Man:" Duuuhhh... A tribe of Rabid Ogre Mailmen attacked and destroyed my distant village and killed my ma, my pa and my bunny!. Now I travel the world hunting down rabid mailmen." Logic: "Rabid Ogre Mailmen don't have anything to do with the campaign you're in..." V man: "Yes they do! my character hates them with a passion! he attacks them on sight and curses at them!" Logic: "And killing dire rats in the well is his style?" V man: "Yes! The Ogre mailmen control the rats! I'm sure" Logic: "No they're not!" V man: "They got to you didn't they?!" Logic:":rolleyes: yes, Rabid Ogre Mailmen got to me... they bribed me with stolen christmas gift checks.:rolleyes: " V Man: "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!" *smites logic with his +3 Rabid Ogre Mailman Bane Spork* ***** I know, that didn't make any sense. hehehe, Sabertooth halflings. :D
hiryuu 06-25-03, 07:05 AM	Yes, de Baron has a point. The whole 'revenge' schtick is old. And it only works if your DM helps you out by sprinkling in some of it with the plot at hand. If BBEG is your vengeance target, you gotta know it's him before you go ruining his plans. I've played in games before where we didn't know who the BBEG was before we found him, and even campaigns where there was no BBEG, and we were just adventurers, robbing crypts and beating up monsters. Why? Because not a one of us wanted a real job.
texaskron 06-25-03, 08:55 AM	Sabertooth halflings? Halflings with the "feral" template, mayhap? :)
Mr. VanderMeer 06-25-03, 09:38 AM	Sabretooth halflings are the favored enemy of my half-fiendish wolverine ranger, Logan. But okay, back to the topic. I have a character whose parents are alive and well! (Shocking isn't it.). His father is a scribe in a medium sized city and his mother runs a small bookstore. Their son has become a wizard, and started adventuring because he learned all he can at home. It's basically just a career choice.
Mystikal 06-25-03, 09:58 AM	Okay, well I take a vow here and now (check it out, I can rhyme) that i will never take the vendetta cliche route when rolling up a character. I shall fight for originality :fight!: Who is with me!?!?!
Lord of the Ninth 06-25-03, 04:10 PM	In our group it's generally upto the DM to come up with important details of our backgrounds. For example, my evil gnome wizard was raised by Drow (the reason for this is complicated, I can't remember it but it made sense at the time), they left on fairly good terms. After this I GMed a d20 modern campaign where the PCs were cryogenically frozen (that way I could have them in a PA campaign, and yet they would never have conflicts of knowledge, there was nothing that they knew the PCs wouldn't and nothing the PCs knew that they didn't). Then someone else did a modern campaign where the backstory was actually the first adventure (he established a vendetta with a giant company that the campaign centered around). Then the first guy started another D&D game, where my character was a citizen of a northern country (whch has sort of French names, which is weird because I accidentally picked a frenchesque name by accident and he didn't know), and I had betrayed them (treason), and now worked for a southern country. I don't really have a vendetta, however because they will kill me on sight, I don't like them (even though I know it's my fault). This system works fairly well, because it ties in with the campaign, plus unless the campaign is Cliche, the BG probably won't be either. Oh yea, and for the record none of my other PCs have used the orc story in their BGs.:cool:
Arilou_skiff 06-25-03, 04:28 PM	I'm currently playing a Red Wizard Necromancer in an online game, it's loads of fun! Especially since he's such a cynical, sarcastic ass. His background is simply: He ran. Didn't like his master so he picked up whatever he could find and got the hell out of there. Of course he'll spend the rest of the campaign being *extremely* paranoid :)
TheMightyMcClaw 06-27-03, 01:54 PM	I played a character who killed a family of orcs as part of his backstory. But that's about it.
Mystikal 06-27-03, 03:09 PM	Now thats a switch:uh-huh:
Nightlore 06-27-03, 08:54 PM	Coming up with the character's background story/motivations/habbits/looks/ all that other stuff that is not controled by a rule in the game has always been my favorite part. I'm not very good at rolling my ability scores, it would seem, that luck is not with me 9 times out of 10. That doesn't mean I don't enjoy role playing, however. I enjoy taking the lumps, and coming up with a story and background that explains the bad numbers. There are plenty of Moon Elf clerics of Corellon Larethian, your background might just be the only thing that keeps you apart from the rest. With that said, currently, I am playing a level 14 wizard/level 1 arch mage with the spell fire ability. My DM wanted one of us to have the spell fire ability, and no one else would step up to the plate. I decided, I could probably make it work, so I volunteered. With the DM, I was able to come up with an interesting background in which I killed my parents with my spellfire by accident in a fit of rage at something or other, I don't remember what, and have been traveling around, homeless, since that time, trying to atone, set things straight. The worst part for my character was that I loved my parents deeply, and it was my own fault that they died. Also, I'm being persued, constantly I might add, by people such as the Zhentarim and the Red wizards, who want me for my spell fire, not to mention the fact that I'm getting to be a powerful wizard now. So far I've had a blast with this character, and he is fitting along nicely into the DM's campaign plans. I just also wanted to say that I've also never played the orc/vendetta story. Pretty lame if you ask me.
Xixt412 06-28-03, 09:25 PM	Well, my players used to overuse the entire "revenge" background story. Now they are a lot more original. One of my friends is playing a non-evil character who at one time betrayed his allies. Also, it was a entrepreneurial betrayal, not the standard "stick-a-dagger-in-the-battle-comrades-back" betrayal. They are becoming much better roleplayers. :)
OrigamiCommando 06-28-03, 10:16 PM	As for new ideas, here's an interesting backstory. Currently, I'm playing as a Chaotic Good Fighter/Forsaker Sun Elf in Forgotten Realms. When she was younger, her father had sent her to a magic academy, as she was having trouble learning magic. There she met a human boy named Jarynn and fell in love with him. He worked as a groundskeeper at the school she attended. He was very artistic and wrote her poetry all the time. Her father came to visit her upon her finishing at the academy, and when he found out that she had not only chosen a human mate but had been impregnated by that same fellow as well, he was beyond furious. He attacked her and during the struggle she fell down a flight of academy stairs. When she tried to get up, some of the proffesors at the academy disarmed her and held her fast with magic. Jarynn attempting to come to her rescue was turned into a granite statue by her father before her very eyes. She fell unconcious. She later miscarried as a result of internal injuries recieved from falling down the stairs. She awoke some time later in the back of a carriage with her father, who informed her she waould retake her lessons again at the academy with the money he recieved from selling the statue that had once been her lover. Pushed over the brink by this statement, she attacked him using the satin bag of blood money gotten by selling her love away, and beat him to death in a rage. She escaped the carriage and found her way back to the academy. She searched for hours but the statue was gone. Enraged she set fire to the proffesors dormatories, causing the aging structure to collapses, level by level, killing almost all of the occupants instantly. Filled with hatred, she returned to the carriage, still sitting without horses by the roadside. She took a blade out and sliced off his casting hand with the blade. She now wears it around her neck as a reminder of a past that is dead to her and she carries her lovers poetry as she searches the land for him as a hope of things to be. She has spent over 150 years of her life searching caves, crypts, temples, art galleries, and pallisades for the statue of her beloved. Over this time her hatred of magic and elves has grown to encompass all of her studies (hence the levels in the Forsaker PrC). She has travelled in 3 different adventuring parties, counting the current one, but her goal remains the same: find her beloved Jarynn. This brings her story to now. So far, my character is level 14 (we started at 5) and has spent over 349,000 GPs to get male, humanoid statues delivered to her compound from all over the world. She still has her fathers dried, mummified hand on a necklace and the bag of gold pieces that was recieved in trade for her true love. It's been a fun character to play. A forsaker, for those that don't know, is basically a fighter type prestige class who really hates magic, and gets SR, among other things, to help him slay mages and stuff.
Mystikal 06-30-03, 10:39 AM	If I tried getting my players to actually write a background story like that they would never take me seriously, or their attempt would be soo lame that it would not even be worth the paper its written on. So I don't bother, I also dont do it for my characters because it makes the DM tend to make thing revolve around me seeing that I am the only one in the campaign who hasa deep enough background to do something interesting with.
Eagle Prince 07-01-03, 04:45 AM	Nothing wrong with having a background where your family was slaughtered by orcs. Not using something because it is "cliche" is stupid, imo. I also think turning something old and boring into something new and cool takes more skill and is more rewarding than just using something totally off the wall to seperate yourself.
pjackson 07-01-03, 11:49 AM	Cliches have their uses. A background of having had your family slaughtered by orcs is better than no background at all. I like to start with a very vague background and fill in the details as I get a better feel for the character. I like to have a family available in the background for the DM to use to hook my character into adventures. My current character was drafted into a war that recently ended. When he returned home his family had disappeared. The village had been occupied by the enemy - the neighbouring country ruled by half-dark-elves who have been known to employ orcs, who may have slaughtered them, but maybe not.
maddog60 07-01-03, 02:29 PM	I think the vendetta backstory is used so often because it makes sense. Especially in low level starting campaigns wehre your characters shouldnt have much experience in terms of battle and adventure. Its all the more likely that someone whose family was slaughtered, has not ties to any particular area, no one they'll miss, no relatives that will worry for them, and a reason to learn combat will become an adventurer, over someone whose life is just fine and dandy. Adventures dont usually tend to be family people, until they end adventuring and settle down, so having no family makes the fact that they adventure all the more plausible. I mean, what if you played a character who has a wife and 4 kids, and he just up and goes out treasure seeking instead of doing his trained profession. It makes no sense at all. There are mouths to feed, a family to care for, and said person 99.9% of the time will be working a steady job to provide for their family.
Malyss the defender 07-01-03, 07:44 PM	In a campaign I started recently,one of my players is a half-orc sorcerer who destroyed his own orc town and now he seeks revenge against himself by torturing himself with the claws of the demon spells from spells&spellcraft. :eek:
Eagle Prince 07-02-03, 03:20 AM	Originally posted by maddog60 I mean, what if you played a character who has a wife and 4 kids, and he just up and goes out treasure seeking instead of doing his trained profession. That kind of reminds me of the book Touched by the Gods... the main character had a wife and kids, and he put off his adventure as long as possible, as soon as it was over he went home and wanted everyone to forget about it. Just an example of why what you're saying is right. I mean, then the DM has to come up with these arbitrary reasons for you to go out on this next part of the campaign. That would just be a hassle. So I think you really hit the nail on the head, this type of thing is cliched for good reason, it simplifies things and makes sure your character isn't tied down with anything to be free to pursue whatever he wants.
Haradim 07-02-03, 04:27 AM	Originally posted by maddog60 It makes no sense at all. I don't think so. Anything from simple thrillseekers, to people who just don't really care about their families, I can see someone from an established life turning to adventure. Pursuit of wealth alone would be reason enough for many. Peasants are hardly prosperous, and an adventurous life, while hard, can catapult a family right into the upper crust of society. One can also gain glory, power and influence, along with what money can provide. One might do it to simply serve a cause (s)he believes in, or to beat back a tyrant. Perhaps it's even the 'family business', that someone in each generation takes to the roads with sword/magic flame in hand. Ambitious, desperate, or simply determined, a family (wo)man could certainly turn to a career of adventure without causing undue mental strain.
dirk hightower 07-02-03, 06:01 PM	You can make any story work.... it's just that cliched story lines are soooo much harder to keep from being lame. Revenge works - which is why it's overused. But, surely, you can come up with something else. I try to start with the deadly sins for motivation - greed, lust, jealousy, gluttony, etc. for evil characters. For good characters I look for a handicap of some kind and then build a story around it. I once played a Palidan that only had a stump on his left hand. He made "attachments" for it... Another Halfling character was ostracized for falling asleep during a watch..... once I played a half-orc that was expelled from his Orc clan for being too pretty! Spend some time brainstorming with your friends for unusual backgrounds - it really improves the roleplaying and the fun. And it Doesn't matter if everyone else in your party has no story or that they all came from a town destroyed by orcs - YOU should do a character background - and spend some time doing it. For 2 reasons: a) it's more fun to roleplay and b) It makes you want to keep them alive - so every encounter is more intense:cool:
valnar 07-02-03, 07:17 PM	I like the Revenge thing but most of the time it is a childhood love or something like that. If you don't like the revenge thing, but want your parents to be dead, you could have them die in some accident You could also have a plague hit your town and you are trying to find a cure or get the cash to get them cured Your right there is a lot of other paths to take, but the revenge one is fine unless everyone else is using it the campaign
DrakeRunner 07-02-03, 07:52 PM	Yeah, I don't see why Orcs are so used as evil for roleplaying, but so loved by the people in Optimization.
KAVU2002 07-02-03, 10:58 PM	Beat down the orcs! Beat them down! Beat them down! <calm down, Beevis. There are no orcs in your suburb>
Fox Lee 07-03-03, 08:48 AM	Originally posted by DrakeRunner Yeah, I don't see why Orcs are so used as evil for roleplaying, but so loved by the people in Optimization. You know, that is interesting. I mean, I'd hope to see some really nifty orcish/half-orcish concepts on the roleplay boards, rather than your standard "bumb as a brick and twice as ugly" Horc Barbarian, but I haven't really come across any yet (well, not around here). Anybody got an interesting Horc? [EDIT] Amended. That Forsaker from page 1 is cool. I hate using pergnancy as a plot device (because of my own issues), but I still think that concept is really interesting and well-done ^_^
Valder 07-03-03, 06:08 PM	In the history of my DMing experience, only one town has been burned to the ground by rampaging orcs. I ruled long ago that all characters who come from this backround all come from THIS town. ;)
OrigamiCommando 07-04-03, 02:38 PM	Originally posted by Mystikal If I tried getting my players to actually write a background story like that they would never take me seriously, or their attempt would be soo lame that it would not even be worth the paper its written on. So I don't bother, I also dont do it for my characters because it makes the DM tend to make thing revolve around me seeing that I am the only one in the campaign who hasa deep enough background to do something interesting with. :D You have the same problem I did. This character has had no less then half the adventure revolve around mercenaries hunting her (and her companions, the party) down for the university incedent and her own family hired wizards to retrieve her (and, kill anyone who stands in the way of doing so). Also, I'd say that 2 out of the 7 dungeon crawls we have done were done because I dragged the party down into a dungeon to go statur checking. Originally posted by Fox Lee [EDIT] Amended. That Forsaker from page 1 is cool. I hate using pergnancy as a plot device (because of my own issues), but I still think that concept is really interesting and well-done ^_^ Thanks. Sorry about whatever issues I brought up with anybody by posting that; I realize there are certain subjects that some people really don't like being reminded of in their gaming.
Lhiannon Sidhe 07-05-03, 02:35 AM	You know, that is interesting. I mean, I'd hope to see some really nifty orcish/half-orcish concepts on the roleplay boards, rather than your standard "bumb as a brick and twice as ugly" Horc Barbarian, but I haven't really come across any yet (well, not around here). Anybody got an interesting Horc? My friend plays a Half-Orc Wizard (Actually started out as a apprentice level Wizard/Barbarian) The barbarian level is so that he gets rage 1/day, because this particular wizard is very short tempered and tends to break things and limbs when angered. He has a 16 Int, but a very low wisdom (5 or something I think). As a result, my friend plays him as having a very short attention span, thus he has no ranks in Concentration, Alchemy, Knowledge: Arcana, or any other skill that requires actual study to learn, he also dosn't cast any spells with a casting time of over 1 round or don't have instantanious flashy effects. The exception to all this is Knitting... Thomas the short tempered half-orc knits to calm himself down. His current project is knitting matching sweaters for the entire party
Fox Lee 07-05-03, 08:41 AM	Originally posted by OrigamiCommando Thanks. Sorry about whatever issues I brought up with anybody by posting that; I realize there are certain subjects that some people really don't like being reminded of in their gaming. Naw, issokeh ^_^ I don't have a funky psychological aversion to it or anything - just have a personal beef with (insert whatever universe-creating entity you like) for not giving either gender a choice (about which half of the necessary bits they get, that is). It leads to people like me growing up with drivel like "oh, you may not want babies now, but you will when you grow up a bit!" :rolleyes: Incidentally, when it comes to D&D, that's one of the big reasons I appreciate Alter Self ;p Some of those characters never knew what hit 'em...
dark_kiri 07-07-03, 05:21 AM	Actually, cliche can be done well, or poorly. For me, one of my most memorable characters just happened to have an orcs-killed-the-family background. This had caused my fighter/thief (2e, not quite ranger stats) to become xenophobic toward all demihumans and humanoids, and to plan strategies for the group that would invariably involve kamikaze tactics on his part. "Unfortunately" the kamikaze part would never obtain, and he'd walk away, sullen and morose, even if it was protectin' innocents. That is, until Arvin met a bunch of hooded kids that happened to like "candy." He himself liked the stuff, so he took a liking to them... and then discovered that they were not kids, but Mongrel Folk of childlike curiosity. They had lived in the swamp with a good necromancer. That was quite a change of heart after that. Great RP. On the other hand, there's a character in the current game whose mother was raped and murdered by assassins; while obsessed with vengeance, the character's taken to the worship of the god of death. This is sadly common for this player. Let's see... other games... CE drow assassin... ale-swillin' dwarf of average intelligence and a dual obsession with honour and battleaxes... the one player who always played dominatrices... yeah, cliches aren't usually good.
Sevik 07-09-03, 01:50 AM	My orc's home was burned to the ground by rampaging gnomes... :(
Eagle Prince 07-09-03, 02:45 AM	Originally posted by Sevik My orc's home was burned to the ground by rampaging gnomes... :( I must know, were they ninja-gnomes? :D
Sevik 07-10-03, 03:08 AM	Yes, they were.... .... and they all had sharp, pointy teeth. :b:
getyourspotusa 07-11-03, 05:28 PM	[QUOTE]Originally posted by Fox Lee [B]You know, that is interesting. I mean, I'd hope to see some really nifty orcish/half-orcish concepts on the roleplay boards, rather than your standard "bumb as a brick and twice as ugly" Horc Barbarian, but I haven't really come across any yet (well, not around here). Anybody got an interesting Horc? --- (new poster, so please forgive any bad etiquette) My Horc is, well, fun to play, anyway. Barbarian, greataxe, all the stereotypical. Can only speak 1 word at a time. BUT. He has 9 INT, so he's not that dumb. (Sometimes he uses big words for his one-word sentences). Cultivates the 'dumb' outwardly to get an edge, though it hasn't come up yet (L1). Is kind, wants others to like him, and makes a fool of himself at non-orcs to engender trust and get people to like him. Wants that above most things, to be liked and accepted by 'normal' people. Also, likes books, will protect them, even though he is illiterate (considers them fonts of power). And, I'm gonna steal that knitting thing from above. That's great. (Thanks, Lhiannon Sidhe). Oh yeah, and when he gets to L2, I may allow him to speak 2 word sentences - haven't decided yet. (I played an old lady paladin knitter in a convention game a while ago - it's great in tabletop games because with 2 pencils, it's great action at the table for humor.)