Ok, what is absolute Law? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Ok, what is absolute Law? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Hammerhand
09-25-03, 07:18 PM I have a Rhek (lawful celestrial) charachter that will be starting at level 1 (racial).

He will be young and lawful for sure (he has some cool smite/detect chaos abilities as he ages).

Seeing the FR as it is with all the killing, robbery, strife, humanoids attacking whatever they can. I'm just wondering other peoples thoughts would be on his final alignment.

Would he go the Darth Vader route and perhaps join Bane as a LE holy warrior or would he see Bane as the heart of the problems of the world and perhaps go the Torm route?

What do you think?
Leap
09-26-03, 05:59 AM Alignment; don’t ya just love it. :)

The more they add to it the more confusing it gets, all sorts of things all assumed to be connected, all leading to a general mess (which I suppose give us something to chat about on here ;) )……………

I suppose the difference between LG and LE would come down to how the word ‘authority’ (part of the description of Lawful) is interpreted….

Given that Evil is about being oppressive, this implies that the authority in a LE society would be an oppressive authority; one that forces itself upon people in a way reminiscent of an overseer. Think big brother. Think nanny-state. Think ‘does not trust the people it is in authority over’.

Good, it seems, is at least partially about dignity and this implies that the authority in a LG society would be one that does NOT force itself upon people (like is found in the overseer mentality of LE) but instead is an authority that trusts the people it is an authority over……..meaning that unlike the LE option, LG authority is not about enforcement/overseer/management but is more of an knowledge embedded in all the participants that directs them to being self-responsible participants in a society they are personally each responsible for making a reliable on.

The question is then: does you character think people are to be trusted with power or do they need to be ‘driven’?

[of course, this is all done by leaving the whole altruism=good, personal biases=neutral argument aside………..]
Trydan
09-26-03, 09:02 AM Oh dear... there goes leap again ;)

Hammerhand, without going into the intricacies of lawful-tribal vs. impersonal-civilised-anti-goodness, I'd suggest that you speak with your DM about it. He or she may have restrictions about what would work with the rest of the party. There may also be the option of changing alignment... i.e. start Lawful-Neutral and move towards Lawful-Evil as the game progresses and your actions and motivations dictate it.

However, in the absence of any other indicators, I'd suggest starting LE. Just because you are LE, doesn't mean you can't bide your time and be cooperative for the time being.
Mr. VanderMeer
09-26-03, 09:07 AM Is Lawful Neutral an option?
Hammerhand
09-26-03, 09:32 AM Yes, lawful neutral is an option. I'm looking more at LN or LE at this point I think. After all Torm, Helm and Bane all have LN clergy (which seems screwed up to me,hehe).

My DM is quite open to any alignment that I choose. My charachter will have known his current group as his only friends since he showed up here on Toril and so even with a LE alignment he will treat them well. As long as they don't screw with him too much that is.:smirk:
Leap
09-26-03, 10:20 AM Hammerhand –

What is it (briefly) about each alignment that you dislike and what do you like?

Trydan –

“Oh dear... there goes leap again ;)”

:P

;)

I was simply trying to point out (leaving all that stuff about altruism aside) that not all Law is the same (the common goals are a society/common order and reliability, but the concept of authority may actually differ depending upon the values of a society; which would reflect the ‘dignity’ (Good) and ‘oppressive’ (Evil) parts of those alignments…………and that the choice needs to take that into account.
Hammerhand
09-26-03, 10:26 AM Well I'm trying to hammer out this charachter. Being from a celestrial plane of law (that is now Mechanus) he beleives in absolute order.

Seeing the Realms in chaos as it is I was just wondering if he would believe that an iron hand is what is needed.

How can law exist when the world is in chaos. I think I may have made up my mind. I guess it may be time for Bane to get a new follower.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Hammerhand 09-25-03, 07:18 PM	I have a Rhek (lawful celestrial) charachter that will be starting at level 1 (racial). He will be young and lawful for sure (he has some cool smite/detect chaos abilities as he ages). Seeing the FR as it is with all the killing, robbery, strife, humanoids attacking whatever they can. I'm just wondering other peoples thoughts would be on his final alignment. Would he go the Darth Vader route and perhaps join Bane as a LE holy warrior or would he see Bane as the heart of the problems of the world and perhaps go the Torm route? What do you think?
Leap 09-26-03, 05:59 AM	Alignment; don’t ya just love it. :) The more they add to it the more confusing it gets, all sorts of things all assumed to be connected, all leading to a general mess (which I suppose give us something to chat about on here ;) )…………… I suppose the difference between LG and LE would come down to how the word ‘authority’ (part of the description of Lawful) is interpreted…. Given that Evil is about being oppressive, this implies that the authority in a LE society would be an oppressive authority; one that forces itself upon people in a way reminiscent of an overseer. Think big brother. Think nanny-state. Think ‘does not trust the people it is in authority over’. Good, it seems, is at least partially about dignity and this implies that the authority in a LG society would be one that does NOT force itself upon people (like is found in the overseer mentality of LE) but instead is an authority that trusts the people it is an authority over……..meaning that unlike the LE option, LG authority is not about enforcement/overseer/management but is more of an knowledge embedded in all the participants that directs them to being self-responsible participants in a society they are personally each responsible for making a reliable on. The question is then: does you character think people are to be trusted with power or do they need to be ‘driven’? [of course, this is all done by leaving the whole altruism=good, personal biases=neutral argument aside………..]
Trydan 09-26-03, 09:02 AM	Oh dear... there goes leap again ;) Hammerhand, without going into the intricacies of lawful-tribal vs. impersonal-civilised-anti-goodness, I'd suggest that you speak with your DM about it. He or she may have restrictions about what would work with the rest of the party. There may also be the option of changing alignment... i.e. start Lawful-Neutral and move towards Lawful-Evil as the game progresses and your actions and motivations dictate it. However, in the absence of any other indicators, I'd suggest starting LE. Just because you are LE, doesn't mean you can't bide your time and be cooperative for the time being.
Mr. VanderMeer 09-26-03, 09:07 AM	Is Lawful Neutral an option?
Hammerhand 09-26-03, 09:32 AM	Yes, lawful neutral is an option. I'm looking more at LN or LE at this point I think. After all Torm, Helm and Bane all have LN clergy (which seems screwed up to me,hehe). My DM is quite open to any alignment that I choose. My charachter will have known his current group as his only friends since he showed up here on Toril and so even with a LE alignment he will treat them well. As long as they don't screw with him too much that is.:smirk:
Leap 09-26-03, 10:20 AM	Hammerhand – What is it (briefly) about each alignment that you dislike and what do you like? Trydan – “Oh dear... there goes leap again ;)” :P ;) I was simply trying to point out (leaving all that stuff about altruism aside) that not all Law is the same (the common goals are a society/common order and reliability, but the concept of authority may actually differ depending upon the values of a society; which would reflect the ‘dignity’ (Good) and ‘oppressive’ (Evil) parts of those alignments…………and that the choice needs to take that into account.
Hammerhand 09-26-03, 10:26 AM	Well I'm trying to hammer out this charachter. Being from a celestrial plane of law (that is now Mechanus) he beleives in absolute order. Seeing the Realms in chaos as it is I was just wondering if he would believe that an iron hand is what is needed. How can law exist when the world is in chaos. I think I may have made up my mind. I guess it may be time for Bane to get a new follower.