Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Fithero 01-24-06, 12:37 AM	My orc warlord (lvl 13 has about 750 followers) has just recieved a large plot of land (several hundred square miles) and 500,000gp to develop it. Now the land already has several small towns, hamlets and thorps that are already set up and self sufficient. Now what i am wondering is what would this orc do with all this? He is true neutral and is wanting his orcs to fit in with normal society, so has taken on this role to protect the land and people already there (cannot kick them out) while being allowed to use it as a base for his army. So what would he do? He isnt dumb enough to strip mine it like what happened in LotR 2, to build a bigger army, but he needs to do *something* with the land. So any help with this little situation would be great, any crazie ideas or thoughts are welcome.. this guy is half undead (via grafts) and his ultimate goal is to become a god... so nothing is too out there for him. Later
Morka 01-24-06, 08:18 AM	For most leaders in Antiquity and Middle Age, "protecting their land" often meant annexing the neighboring land, because he doesn't trust the current leader (and vice-versa). It's not because your Orc Warlord is True Neutral that it isn't true. In fact, even a good-aligned leader would think this way if he felt threatened by his neighbor. And in addition, he is an orc; any better reason to war? So, IMHO, he should hire mercenaries and plan some invasion; he could also give a gift to another leader he trusts, in order to receive some help in his next campaign. Beside invading a neighbor, he could also lead his troups in some crusade, in order to free a distant, holy site, or perhaps to destroy a distant, but dangerous foe (a dragon, a lich, etc). Finally, he could become a sponsor to some local artists, or invest in the new technologies, like agronomy (better races of sheep, goats, cows, horses and dire wolves, some new seeds like buckwheat or soja), engineering (revolving cranes), architectures, or Enron... An healthy population is more difficult to invade than a poor population...
erbmjw 01-24-06, 08:51 AM	More than a few questions/comments for your Orc General Geography and natural resources are very important! Mountains and old forest timber? Do you have signifigant water in and/or encompassing one or more side of your area? Ie large river/lake/coastal area? Is your area between two or more signifigant territories {possible merchant routes, etc}? What are the growth potential for plants in the area? Is you area mainly semi-fertile plains, that just need irrigation? You need to have your GM give you an accurate outline of the area then acquire or produce a fairly-to-highly detailed map of your area { Hire more than one cartographer and assign a few of your military units to assist/protect them - you'll get the job done quicker } It helps to know first what your land is capable of before making any plans. **************************************** ***** If your army doesn't already have at least 1 of each of the following then hire at least one of each mid-high level experts in geography, nature, civil engineering {road, bridge, canals, locks, water mill, wind mill, sewage systems, irrigation sytems, and large scale water cisterns/reservoirs}, seige engineering, farming, police, and logistics. Get at least one mid-high level diplomat as your advocate with outside interests. **************************************** **** Try to discover if you have one or more signifigant experts in your already established towns,etc. Hire them - even if they are - it's good PR :) **************************************** ***** Get ready to have a great number of your lower level army members turned into low level quarry workers and road/bridge building crew members. Improved transportation is good for not only military power but also for improving the livelihood of you and your people. High some mid level bridge and road building supervisors to teach your army members their new jobs. If it is near planting or harvest time get some of the army's low level members to assist the local farmers. After all the more food they produce the better it is for all of the people in your area. **************************************** **** Try to discover if your area has an abundance of at least one natural resource{more than one is good} or perhaps your area produces a minor but signifigant natural resource. **************************************** **** If you want the people who live in the area to respect you and your laws; then make sure that your laws are clear, simple and enforced in equal measure against members of both the local population and your army. **************************************** **** What signifigant skill sets does your character, his high level friends and the higher level army members have?
Fithero 01-24-06, 09:52 AM	Basically the land this orc owns is just one section owned by the knights of Valdor (my orc is one of those knights). The lands are set in agroland so its pretty much all forest. Im not wanting to invade my the other players lands (just a stupid idea) *but* there are lands just to the north... owned by Gith... they are no way near my numbers... but they are gith... very powerfull... and probably able to kick my butt. My character is pretty much a master of negotiation with diplomacy 25, bluff 18, intimidate 20 and sense motive 13, there isnt much an npc negotiator can do that this guy cant. Though, im wanting to work with the people of the land, so im thinking i will put most of my force onto improving the standard of living for all the towns, eg: building roads and better structures, training towns folk in weapons and battle. The dm has pretty much given me free reign over how the land looks (though there is a very long cliff face somewhere in it) and i get to choose what major resource there is (one that is able to be worked from, ie: gold,crystal,mythral mine or some such thing) also, i get to place the towns and such. Is that pretty much covering everything i need? Im liking the adivce you two have given, thanks alot. Still... the more i get the merrier i will be :P Later
Corrin 01-24-06, 12:59 PM	Okay, you have potentially war-like neighbors to the north and there has to be a cliff-face in it? Line the cliff-face along the northern border of your territory, with your mines/villages/territory on top of the cliff, and get some of your warband working on building defenses - landslides you can trigger, a low wall with arrow slits, watch-towers, etc - then see if you can provoke the Gith into attacking up the cliff and slaughter them as they come up. Just watch out for flying/teleporting guys. See if maybe you can get an anti-magic field enchanted along the top of the cliff. :)
Morka 01-24-06, 04:21 PM	Okay, you have potentially war-like neighbors to the north and there has to be a cliff-face in it? Line the cliff-face along the northern border of your territory, with your mines/villages/territory on top of the cliff, and get some of your warband working on building defenses - landslides you can trigger, a low wall with arrow slits, watch-towers, etc - then see if you can provoke the Gith into attacking up the cliff and slaughter them as they come up. Just watch out for flying/teleporting guys. See if maybe you can get an anti-magic field enchanted along the top of the cliff. :) Hire an high level wizard to build some traps with Earthquake on the cliffs. Then ask him to cast a major anti-magic field on top of it... :P :rofl:
Harrow Blade 01-24-06, 09:46 PM	You say that your Orc warlord has 750 followers, are they all orcs as well? Also you want your people (i assume your followers) to fit in with normal society. My suggestion is to outfit your best warriors in flashy armour and weaponry and form your own knightly order for your followers and have them patrol your lands constantly. They should be there to protect the people from every threat they can whilst providing a grand visual reminder to the people that you are thier ruler but care for the people. Build roads and school, set up trade routes and provide grants for tradesmen and skilled workers to come to your land to ply thier trade. Doing this will raise the standard of goods coming out of your land and increse trade and therefore wealth. As to your goal of becoming a god, start cultivating your worshiper base right away. I have one word 'Propaganda'! this is an fantastic tool for gently bringing the common people round to your way of thinking. You have the skills, the money and people to help. For example when you are building a road between two towns the first action should be to get the towns people excited about the road, convince them they can't live with out it and by having it you are increasing the quality of thier lives a hundred fold. then once it is complete celebrate it, make your name sonomous with progress, wealth and happiness. Soon enough you will have a worshiping population. then you can start Putting up temples to the nameless god of the land in the area and over a period of time become that god. Start to raise statues that resemble you. While you are waiting for your divine appointment hire people who can act as your clerics, have them use magic in your name. Have them cry out your name before using a well concealed wand of cure light etc. If done well you will end up with a fanatical population ready to pray you into divinity. If you can avoid large scale battle while you are improving your land. It is costly and desructive and gets all sorts of people ticked off at you. especially if you are doing the invading. Harrow Blade
The Grand Mystic 01-26-06, 10:55 PM	Your best way of fitting in is basically good-works projects, show the surrounding people that you're not the stereotypical tyrannical brute of an orc. While 500,000gp is a lot to develop an area, remember that no amount of coin will last forever: invest early in opportunities to collect multiple sources of revenue in order to support and maintain your tract of land. Whether it be a small amount of taxes on income or trade imports or natural/exotic resources (lumber, stone, marble, gems, fish and game, etc.), highway or bridge tolls, and whatever else you can come up with, secure it and use it to your advantage. While you may take a small cut for personal use (you are the lord in charge, after all), most of the income gained from the land should either be put back into the land (improvements, monuments and festivals for the people, reinvestment in holdings) or held treasury-style as a rainy day fund. Definitely ask your DM about the various features of your tract of land, especially: - geography (any mineral-rich mountains, rivers or lakes, forests, coastline, swamp, etc.) - racial makeup (being an orc could affect how certain races feel towards you in the beginning) - distribution of people (how many people live in countryside as compared to cities and towns, how big the various cities and towns in your land are) - people and groups (any interesting people/monsters of note in area, any groups such as clans, guilds, churches or orders located in area) - politics (where your boundaries lie, who are your neighbors and what are their feelings towards you)
DBoot 01-27-06, 12:47 AM	If he has patience and guile to go with that diplomacy check, the following idea might appeal to you: Found a capital city. 500,000 is not enough for this, but that's fine. What you want to do is to advertise, make people want to come to your lands. And not just any people either (though they'll help). You want to attract speculators and business men first. Offer land and property rights for dirt cheap. They'll create new jobs. This will in turn attract workers, who will in turn attract merchants. Don't be stingy with the current inhabitants either. Since most are likely farmers or small tradesmen, they stand to make a buck too, so help them along by giving them some free land (this is also great for loyalty) to cultivate and feed your growing population. Some of your money should definately be spent on a braintrust, experts who will help make your goal possible. City planners especially ('organic cities' are famous for having design problems). Your loyal followers should serve as the police force to maintain order during this time of expansion. If you can become a center of commerce and trade, your nation-state will build itself. Now, obviously this is time consuming, hence why you need patience. Also, you run into the problem of losing a handle on your project, thus guile. Don't become an overcontrolling paranoid git, but do be careful. Even if you run everything properly, some might still envy your power, or resent your heritage. Overall, it's a good deal. An economic base, a satisfied populace, and political power in the area. Though blatant propaganda will work against you, if you can cultivate loyalty among your people, then you have an army at your beck and call and faithful to worship you once you ascent to godhood.
Fithero 01-27-06, 10:06 AM	These are all awsome ideas guys, thanks heaps hey, really going to help me out. Any more help in the whole "ruler of a land" issue would be great, but now ill try and focus on how he will become a god. Basically he is aiming to gain the epic leadership feat (thousands of followers) so he will eventually be a king of sorts. But he doesnt have any spell casting classes... so how would a combat focused character obtain god hood (in a story wise sense)? Any help here would be great too. Chiers Later
DBoot 01-27-06, 10:17 AM	As a nonspellcaster, the best you can hope for is searching for legends of a loophole. With power and money, you can have a couple of loremasters search around the clock. If that's a no go, your best bet is to challenge a god to a direct confrontation. You'll want to choose one that won't just blast you for your hubris, and that will keep to the letter of the agreement. You'll want to challenge a god who'se abilities are close to your own. A god of leadership, or of war, or what not is a good choice. Try to keep it a one on one affair. A God of war, for example, should fight you as a god, but without all his godlike abilities (non-combat salient abilities, spells from domains granted, that sort of thing). Really, you're better off ascending some other way though. Challenging gods have a habit of screwing up fairly poorly.
Fithero 01-27-06, 11:52 AM	Really, you're better off ascending some other way though. Challenging gods have a habit of screwing up fairly poorly. "Hey Tempus! Kiss my hairy, green @rse!" That would get his attention i think... :gah: Later
erbmjw 01-27-06, 12:06 PM	Fith - to make it sound more like a challenge you might want to try this change "Hey Tempus! Kiss my hairy, green @rse or I'll spend the next eight days kicking your's!"
erbmjw 01-27-06, 12:10 PM	On a more serious note - are you willing to work your way up from minor to major deity status? I'm asking this because a non-magic user can be sponsored into a minor deity position by a greater deity. You would have to impress a signifigant diety - not only with your active deeds but also with your passion and dedication to the ideals your wish to uphold as a minor deity.
Fithero 01-27-06, 01:30 PM	Heck yeah... the kind of god im thinking he would be, is an orc god who is neutral (since they are all evil) and possible neutral on the law/chaos axis. Im thinking he is looking for a way for orcs to fit into everyday society, so an orc can walk down the street and openly wear his faith on his/her sleave and not be shot/stabbed by every guard and adventurer in sight. So... perhaps an alliance with some of the peace loving gods who are themselves neutral... perhaps helm (or even illmater.. though less likely) would be willing to sponsor and neutral orc god to stop some of the slaughter that orcs cause. Of course... the thought of a neutral orc god would just tick off the entire orc pantheon... a group of characters that *nobody* in their right mind would want to anger... owell... so many problems... but then again, becoming a god was not meant to be easy i guess. Any more thoughts? Later
Harrow Blade 01-27-06, 09:56 PM	A thought springs to mind that in 2e there was a campaign setting called birthright that had the pc's as kings and emperors etc. you may want to look into that. Also being sponsored by another deity into minor deoity status is probly the best way for a non caster to acheive godhood. there are several examples of this happening in the Forgotten Realms. I am not sure if I remember all the detail but if you do get enough people worshiping you you may end up ascending any way. Another random memory upwelling, Finder from the forgotten realms novels azure bonds and wyvern spur (i think) is another example of a mortal who acsended and a bard at that. He bumped off Moander (*i think thats how it is spelt) to gain his god hood. as such he has the domains of decay and rot but is still good aligned so you look to killing minor deities that are in a bad way as an option. another copper or two for this pot Harrow Blade
erbmjw 01-28-06, 10:12 PM	If your character wants to acheive godhood so that orc's can have a racial deity that will lead them away from death and slaugther and towards a cautious general acceptance by the other races; then your character should not be neutral - he should be neutral good - unless he makes some strange bargin with the gods that sponsor him. What aspects of your character are you trying to champion in your attempt to achieving goodhood? Your character could really tick off the other orc gods by being a neutral {or neutral good} Orcish god of Battle - ie you are a general and an Orc so you are well along this path already - this would allow traditional orcish behaviour ie fighting to be channeled into less racially destructive actions.
Fithero 01-29-06, 10:50 AM	common sense, discipline, freedom, honor, loyality, mercy, orcs (obviously), planning, strategy, strength, trust, truth, valor. These are the basic things im wanting my character to be a god of, though there are a few problems. The orc warlord prc says that i cannot be good, but thats what i want to be, it shouldnt be too much of a problem though, the dm is fine with fudging that. Im wanting him to be a god that accepts other races, sexes equally, while being just, fair, houourable and all that jazz. Also.. improving apon the orc's overall stupidity and rashness would be a good idea aswell. Later
Fithero 01-29-06, 11:29 AM	Something ive been thinking about for his pre-god days, is to put down a piece of wonderous archetecture(spelling?) in the main town, or in every town if money permits. Im thinking of putting in a platform of healing in my main town, and allowing my followers and people under my protection to used it for free. Nothing gets loyality and peoples respect like offering free healing. Also, a hospital with all those beds of wellness, restonration and regeneration. I believe a good health care system is intergeral to every government! "Keep out folk healthy, keep them voting" and all that jazz. Good idea? Later
erbmjw 01-29-06, 12:14 PM	It's nice to have a central hospital that can heal anything but it's equally important that heath care get's to the outlying regions in your territory. I think the money would be better spent on things like improving more of your people as healers and providing a central school for healers. Nothing get's loyalty like the fact that you invest in your people. Big peices of non-transportable magic can cost too much and do too little if people can not get to them. I would also make a suggestion about the cliff face - make it anywhere from a tenth to a quarter of the way into your terriory and closest to your northern border ( the gith ) make sure to put a signifigant town near a large waterfall { watersource} on the cliff face - this would give your territory a signifigant edge in defensive warfare. What is the longest facing border you have? I'm not familar with the world you have mentioned can you give me a better idea about the world or point me towards a site that can help me learn more about it?
Fithero 01-29-06, 08:32 PM	I'm not familar with the world you have mentioned can you give me a better idea about the world or point me towards a site that can help me learn more about it? Aglarond, the eastern side of the Yew Wood. (Though not actually in the Yew Wood) Later
erbmjw 01-31-06, 10:38 AM	Ok when you say the eastern side of the Yew Wood - How much of the eastern side? All of it? Or a specific section? ie northern half / northern third? This is the map I found of Aglarond on the WotC website. http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/UEMaps/UAm1_72dpi.jpg If this is the right area then you have a signifigant coast line :)