Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ivelios2 03-08-06, 04:15 AM	Hello everyone i just wanted to bring up a point about roleplaying a paladin that i think alot of people miss. That is the simple fact that paladins know no fear. Think about every important decision you have ever made in your life and it is likley that fear of somthing has effected your decision even if in some small way every single one of them. Now imagine that you are suddenly freed from that simply because your god has touched you personally and you know this as a fact that as long as you serve him nothing can harm you for long. Now this isnt a license to be stupid of course charging into a pointless headlong battle into a goblin horde or some such. Most paladins are also very wise and would avoid this scenario but just keep in mind that fact when your making decisions as a paladin you know no fear.
MasterOfPsychic 03-08-06, 04:26 AM	Try being a christian or muslim.. or any other religion with a active deity, then you would know that for every decicion. On the contrary, a paladin KNOWs that his/her god don't care if he/she dies... Ever played D&D, Ivelios2?
Fithero 03-08-06, 09:32 AM	Ever played D&D, Ivelios2? Ever made a usefully contribution to a forum before MasterOfPsychic? Ivelios2 was just pointing out a commonly overlooked fact of a character class, no need to rip into him. As for the origional comment, id have to agree *but* the paladin would have to take into account that others do not have the same fearlessness as they do. He may be able to stand his ground against the dragon, but the other 3 members of his party may not be able to, despite how good their intentions are. Good point though. Later
MasterOfPsychic 03-08-06, 10:50 AM	*laughs* I'd expect to get negative feedback back for my negative feedback... But anyway I do not agree.... But, I'd keep it a little more discreet next time ;)
Ivelios2 03-08-06, 10:56 AM	MasterOfPsychic yes i have played the game quite a bit and just because a god dosent personally intervine to save a paladin which they in fact often do if you count divine spells but just because they dont show up personally dosent mean they dont care. In fact If a paladin in DnD dies fighting for their deity they have a guarenteed trip to heaven the eternal reward what can be more caring and compassionate then that. Also please keep in mind your opinion is in fact your own and bealiving your opinion and yours alone is correct in a matter like this is what i can only describe as sheer stupidity. Have a nice day
Fithero 03-08-06, 11:03 AM	But, I'd keep it a little more discreet next time ;) I got no need to be discreet MasterOfPsychic, you been floating from thread to thread leave nigh-on pointless replies with the apparent attempt to get your post count up. Heck you even insulted another board member, i aint abiding that. So im going to be as blunt as i want. Also please keep in mind your opinion is in fact your own and bealiving your opinion and yours alone is correct in a matter like this is what i can only describe as sheer stupidity. Indeed. Later
MasterOfPsychic 03-08-06, 11:17 AM	Sorry, my english is not perfect... By "But, I'd keep it a little more discreet next time ;) " I meant: But, I (MasterOfPsychic) would keep it a little more discreet next time ;), (optional ending: because I gave a foolish answer). And, I did some stupid replies, however, none of them were there to get my post count up. I did not even know that there were a post count.
Nicholas the Paladin 03-08-06, 12:01 PM	Hello everyone i just wanted to bring up a point about roleplaying a paladin that i think alot of people miss. That is the simple fact that paladins know no fear. Think about every important decision you have ever made in your life and it is likley that fear of somthing has effected your decision even if in some small way every single one of them. Now imagine that you are suddenly freed from that simply because your god has touched you personally and you know this as a fact that as long as you serve him nothing can harm you for long.. I undrestand what you mean, but try to use some nuance. What you kind off referring to here is 'self doubt' ...a very human trait. And much more subtle than plain fear. A paladin never stops being human (of elf or...). The 'fearless'aspect of a paladin just means that he is somewhat in controll of himself. To maybe lose some of my own nuance: The paladin is a *very* disciplined warrior, that is somewhat helped by divine intervention.... fear won't touch hem, he can shake it off, stay true in battle and keep on going. Now this isnt a license to be stupid of course charging into a pointless headlong battle into a goblin horde or some such. Most paladins are also very wise and would avoid this scenario but just keep in mind that fact when your making decisions as a paladin you know no fear. see above
Dragonwriter 03-08-06, 07:18 PM	It's more than being in control of oneself. It's a choice to never falter in one's courage. A choice rooted in the unswerving faith that one finds when one has truly touched the light. Even the powerful fear spawned by dragons holds no sway over one who knows the true power of the light... greater than any dragon could ever be. Dragons, mortals, and dark gods hold no power over a Paladin beyond that of death. And if the paladin does die, he merely joins his god, or becomes part of the plane of LG. What reason does a paladin ever HAVE to fear, knowing such a thing? The cause he fights for is greater than any dragon, mortal, or even god.
Uberwoot 03-08-06, 10:30 PM	What you kind off referring to here is 'self doubt' ...a very human trait. And much more subtle than plain fear.... The paladin is a *very* disciplined warrior, that is somewhat helped by divine intervention.... fear won't touch hem, he can shake it off, stay true in battle and keep on going. Nicholas seems to have hit the nail on the head, here. It's not that the paladin believes himself invincible (though that is quite possibly the case), it's that the paladin has tremendous confidence in himself, and is thus less susceptible to fear. The paladin is quite likely to be very discreet, but when the time for action comes, he will do his duty without fear because he is supremely confident that every action he takes makes his life more worthwhile. /Woot
Sianger 03-09-06, 01:36 AM	I know this is about the RP side of things, but if you want to see it in game-mechanical terms, I believe a paladin's immunity to fear affects him or her more like always passing his save, rather than him not feeling a thing. So he'd still feel fear, in the case of magical fear maybe something like a wave of fear washing over him... but he'd stand fast, courageously, he'd shake it off. He can still be as scared as the next guy and want to **** in his pants... he'll just grit his teeth and not let it get to him. Personally, I think this might even be in line with the idea of the paladin, in that it lets him feel empathy for those weaker than himself, who he's supposed to protect. It's an extreme example, but if a paladin couldn't feel fear at all, he might look at the townsfolk cowering before the orcish horde and say, "What're you so scared about? Come on, fight them!" :D
Ivelios2 03-09-06, 09:14 AM	Many interesting points here so far ill address the resisting fear as opposed to not feeling fear first. In my opinon the paladin no longer feels fear anymore as opposed to simply always resisting it. This ability isnt a supernatural ability which leads me to bealive it isnt god granted at all but somthing which comes from within. You simply bealive in your god his will and your place in it so much that not even dragon fear can sway you. If you look at it that way if magical fear from a lich or ancient dragon dosent work on you your so devout its unliley that a goblin with a dagger is going to inspire any. In response to the self-doubt issue of course a person even a fearless one may question his actions on moral grounds or perhaps for several other reasons. However most self doubt does indeed come from fear. Fear of making a mistake or the wrong decision leads to most self doubt as opposed to an honest attempt to try to examine and better onesself. As human beings it is quite difficult to try to envision a truly fearless man because such a thing has never existed. All men fear to some extend anyone who says otherwise is lying. This being the case its hard to know how such a person would act but the next time i play a paladin im looking forward to the interesting rp it provides.
zlatko 03-09-06, 09:41 AM	First off, I agree with what Sianger said. Furthermore, Paladins arent immune to fear as in they dont feel it. They just dont succumb to it. Of course they fear for their lives, and for lives of others, but they rise above it. Fear is your friend. And a sign of reason/common sense. A paladin won't charge an overwhelming host of devils because he's fearless. That would be plain stupid. A paladin wont charge through a trapped dungeon because he doesn't fear traps/injury/death. That would be plain stupid. What his fearlesness does, it is giving him an edge over his foes. He inspires allies to feats of courage when courage alone is the difference between death and triumph.
Cifer 03-09-06, 04:40 PM	This ability isnt a supernatural ability which leads me to bealive it isnt god granted at all but somthing which comes from within. I was interested in that too and got my PHB out... well, assuming I can read and the letters don't move, it actually is supernatural. You may have mixed it up with Aura of Good (which indeed would be extraordinary). Anyway, I also think that the Paladin does not feel fear anymore. He may think "They have superior numbers and are better trained, so we better retreat for this battle is not worth our lives", yet he will not have the good old ""ohshitohshitimgonnadieimgonnadieimgonnaD IE" feeling. Thus, in my opinion, the Paladin is much more rational about his decisions. There are still many emotions that do affect him (love, zeal, potentially hatred, greed,...), although some orders might try to stay away from any of them ("There is no emotion; there is peace", to quote a certain order), yet with the fear removed, a lot of decisions become much more logical rather than emotional.
Ivelios2 03-09-06, 08:14 PM	Maybe your looking at a 3rd ed book or somthing but ive got my 3.5 book out and it dosent say aura of courage is a supernatural ability anywhere.
MasterOfPsychic 03-10-06, 04:02 AM	Aura of Courage (Su) Beginning at 3rd level, a paladin is immune to fear (magical or otherwise). Each ally within 10 feet of her gains a +4 morale bonus on saving throws against fear effects. This ability functions while the paladin is conscious, but not if she is unconscious or dead. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Copied directly from the srd... (Su) means supernatural, so in fact it DOES say it is...
Uberwoot 03-10-06, 02:14 PM	According to the 3.5e rules, the ability is indeed supernatural- meaning that it can be supressed in the same way as other magic effects. The implications of this are simple. The paladin's immunity to fear is the result of an external force (a supporter of good, since the paladin will lose the ability if he falls from the right path) working through him. As a DM, I would say a player could take this either direction he chose for roleplaying purposes- either he doesn't feel fear at all, or overcomes it, at his discretion. It's a player, after all, and they're ultimately in control of their character. /Woot
stranger_654 03-10-06, 09:33 PM	I dont know if anyone else has posted the same point, but i believe that a paladin still feels fear, but he has the courage to act and reason beyond it. Personally i think that everyone feels fear, a truely fearless person is mad, insane....so therefore to me a paladin still feels fear, but manages to ignore it, to be couragous... Anyway ^.^ Good roleplaying point all the same
Faithfull-1 03-30-06, 12:09 AM	Interesting points all. One thing about the Aura of Courage that I find Interesting is the inhumanity it lends the Paladin. Most People think of Paladins as feel good charicters but you could play a very grim and imposing Paladin if you wanted too. A Paladin of St.Cuthbert or another humorless drive deity. You could be a teribble Inquisitor constantly judgeing and slaying any evil you detect. Imagine you are sitting in a bar talking to a friend when the door opens and and a huge man in heavy plate walks in. Your friend seems nervous he gets up suddenly and raises his hands defencively. You don't know what is going on but the grim warrior strides over and ruthlessly hacks down your former friend. If the Paladin is part of a legitamit Inquision and has been tasked by his lord with the slaying of any and all evil in the nation such a senario would not be out of the question. By the letter of the Code mercy is not required while punishing evil is. Think of the Balrog in the Fellowship of the Ring. When that firey behemoth screams who would not feel some mesure of fear. A paladin would not. He would calmly asses the situation and then act apropriatly. Thats scary in itself. I think the concept of a Paladin order that everyone hates and fears is an interesting idea. In fact it has been done somewhat in Battle Chasers. Of course every DM is free to determin for himself what it means to be a Paladin in his game. I like to keep an open mind so that interesting conflicts and concepts like that have a place in my games.
doorknobdeity 03-31-06, 03:40 PM	Also bear in mind a probable inspiration for the ability: religious martyrs. Though the paladin ability does make it more romaticized, it does seem to echo the acts of those willing to, say, knowingly go to a tortuous death for their god or light themselves on fire for what they think is right.