Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Faithfull-1 03-30-06, 12:15 AM	I intend to play a Paladin in the next campaign run by my local DM. Problem is even though they are my favorite class I am having trouble comming up with a Paladin that's not cliche. Their origin's diferentiate them but after the call and the training it seems like they all turn up vanilla. Please tell me some stories of interesting Paladins? What have you done with your charicters to shake up the class? I went back three pages but did not find a thread like this. If I am infact bringing up an old tired subject... (as I suspect) please point me to the relavent thread.
Yanagita Kunio 03-30-06, 03:04 AM	Well, one man's cliche is another's originality...could you perhaps describe some of the ideas you've rejected, to give some guideposts to where you want to go? My favorite paladin concept has always been the "peasant paladin" found in Russian folklore (and likely other sources I'm not familiar with)--lowborn, barely educated, with provincial manners...yet generous, loyal, pious in a simple fashion, and courageous. High WIS plays as folkish good sense rather than profound or studious insight, high CHA as disarming charm and genuineness rather than awe and imposingness. Boisterous, plainspoken (sometimes a little too plainspoken) easy to laugh with and laugh at, willing to drink and dance at a peasant festival or in a inn's common room, ready to chuckle with fishwives and flirt with farmer's daughters (or sons). Works hard, plays hard, but is always relaxed and easygoing. Treats even strangers like family unless given a good reason not to; addresses every old person as Grandmother or Grandfather, every adult as Brother or Sister, and every child as Niece or Nephew. Stumbles awkwardly through formal courtesies, dresses so far below his/her station that he/she is mistaken for a servant or peasant, can't be bothered with the maintenance involved in "fancy armor" and therefore wears roughspun and leather. Prefers a chunk of wood that doubles as a walking stick to the additional encumberance of a sword. While this kind of character turns up a lot in Russian folklore, I'm particularly fond of the bogatyr Alyosha Popovich, whose descriptions basically form the archetype above.
00_Whupass 03-30-06, 03:18 AM	I'm currently playing a Paladin of Delleb, the god of Lore, Written knowledge, and Book Learnin' in general, an a holy quest from his church to seek out and preserve rare texts. He was discribed by his Party as "A Militant Librarian" You could also try the Less than squeky clean Paladin (make sure you talk to your DM before doing this one and make sure your visions of the nature of Evil). Nothing actually evil but maybe he's gruff, beligerant, rude, and insensitive. Maybe he's a biggot. Maybe borrow some christ imagery and give him a ***** for a girlfriend. There are lots of ways to add some character to your paladin obscure deities, the UA varients, Personality quirks, just think about it for a while and you'll figure something out.
JulesCARV 03-30-06, 10:55 AM	I already posted this on the class boards, but in case anyone else wants to see it... Paladins are no more or less interesting than any other character on their own. A paladin who detects evil on everything and smites everything that turns on evil with a greatsword is boring. So is a rogue who steals everything that's not nailed down (and nothing stays nailed down long if the rogue has a crowbar). Unearthed Arcana came up with four suffixes for paladins: "freedom," for chaotic good, "slaughter," for chaotic evil, "tyranny" for lawful evil, and "honor" for lawful good. I think that they got lawful good totally wrong. I think that the appropriate suffix for a traditional LG paladin is "justice." Think about what justice means to your character. What does it mean for you? What does it mean for Martha Nussbaum? For Peter Singer? For Antonin Scalia? Martin Luther King Jr.? William F. Buckley? Andrea Dworkin? J.S. Mill? Just because your character is lawful, does not mean that he must be a conformist in the sense of believing that everything legal about society is just. Maybe you could have a paladin in a primarily monarchical world that finds monarchy to be an unjust and arbitrary institution, and (peacefully) advocates turning them into republics. He wouldn't be a rebel -- unless he's a paladin of freedom -- but he could be a vigorous advocate, writing pamphlets, drawing up petitions, etc, to create parliaments and the like within the existing monarchical structure. I'm sure that you can think of other examples of unconventional paladins.
Faithfull-1 03-30-06, 01:17 PM	The Paladin Librarian is an interesting concept. The Paladin of humble origins seems a little played to me but the extent to which you are taking it, no plate and a club for a weapon re invigorates the idea. I suppose I am looking more for interesting quirks and takes on the Paladin. One thought was to make the charicter a shameless womanizer leaving a trail of broken hearts in every saved town. But I don't know if that would be something I would realy like to play though..
nightwing 03-30-06, 02:01 PM	I would talk to your DM about exchanging some or all of the paladin's Cha-related abilities for other abilities like the barbarian rage ability, the ranger's tracking ability, even maybe some of the bard's music/perform ability. Then you can have a rude-crude paladin, a butt-ugly paladin, twinkletoes paladin, a nearly insane paladin, whatever. There's nothing wrong with mix and matching class abilities to some small extent to create something that fits right. I would also look through a list of various types of mental-issues, like the one in the 1st ed. AD&D DMG. Then choose one or two of those! They can lead to some truely unusual characters. The megalomaniac narsisitic paladin...interesting! Third, I would consider making a fighter who always wanted to be a paladin, and attempts to hold himself to the same standard, but just never really had what it takes to actually BE one. He consistently gets too angry to control his temper, loves the ladies a little too much, just isn't smart enough, whatever. He might actually even claim to BE a paladin, but people stop believing him after they get to know him.
Dipteran_Legacy 03-30-06, 02:01 PM	unfortunately, the group I currently game with doesnt run in eberron, but if you're familiar with the setting, and playing in it, I'll let you use my idea, if you want. it isnt optimized by any means, and I dont have a build, but the idea is cool. the concept is a changeling rogue/paladin. probably with a parent who wanted to conceal their identity as a changeling. at some point in the child's youth(after being scolded not to change shape in public), something terrible occurs-the child is kidnapped, or attacked, or something. A changeling intervenes, in it's natural form. it soundly defeats whatever was threatening the child, gives the child a smile, and then leaves.(you could always have it say something about being true to oneself, if you like) The young changeling convinces himself that this was an incarnation of the stranger, and that the stranger is not truly one of the "dark six", but is merely feared for his mysterious ways. He grows up, proud of being a changeling, and not hiding it from the world, though he will change forms when he needs to infiltrate a theives guild, or something of the like. also, if he ends up in a fight with someone he does not wish to harm, he can flee and change forms. a fun character concept, but one I may never be able to pla :( as a variant of the "less than squeeky clean" paladin, I also had an idea for a blind swordsman paladin back in 2nd ed. while it's pretty much impossible, his basic concept was that justice is a blind, cold, vengeful force, of which he is the incarnate of. while you cant realistically be blind, if you go into the right PrC with blindsight, you could carry a bandana around with you, and pull it over your eyes before you do any killing, sorta like "these pure eyes of mine should not see the evil my hands are about to wreak". such a character would be about few words, but making a big impression when he talked, due to the high CHA. he wouldn't talk about things like he meant to do them, but rather, like they would be done, period. the bandit king catches the party, and interrogates them? the paladin would say that they were coming to his lair to convince him to change his ways, and that he would (not that they were going to before being caught, but that it would happen, garaunteed) be sent to the afterlife for the gods to judge if he did not. even being tortured or threatened with death, the character would still be fearless, truly beleiving a better life awaited him, for purifying sinners with the blade of justice in this life. hope that gave you some ideas.
WarDragon 03-30-06, 02:08 PM	Hmmm.... I don't think leaving a trail of broken hearts qualifies as any sort of good or lawful act... more like something a CN would do. I'm not saying Paladins can't have one-night stands, just that they'd make sure the other person knew from the beginning that's all it could ever be. Right now, I'm playing a Paladin with Vow of Poverty; a half-dragon who relies on his claws and fangs for smiting evil. It hasn't come up in the game, but he actually took the Vow because his dragon father's greed got both of his parents killed. He's all about drawing on the power of his heritage, without being consumed by greed. Vow of Poverty also sounds like it'd work beautifully for that "peasant paladin" that Yanagita Kunio mentioned.
blackjackg 03-30-06, 08:05 PM	A couple of twists worth considering: The Swashbuckler-Paladin. A gentleman warrior who's dashing, debonair and quietly pious. The Privateer-Paladin. He sails the ocean blue, hunting pirates, sea monsters and other evil doers, all for king, country and deity. They could be done as multiclass characters or just as flavourful versions of the basic class.
Faithfull-1 03-30-06, 08:43 PM	I have been wanting to make a crippled warrior type for a while. The game Samurai Swords had such a fighter a Samurai with Tuberculosus. Kind of a Rastlin with a sword idea. Low con but high dex. Does fine in a fight but is alway coughing and hacking afterwards. Sort of like he hold himself together by sheer willpower while he needs too but suffers for his exersions when its over. I like the idea of doing a Paladin who was captured and horibly mutilated by some evil force. Maby killed and raised and killed again untill his Con suffered. When members of his order found him they thought he was finnished but his determination to serve and his hate for evil keep him training and praying for justice. Still.. trying to get my party to go with a Paladin with an 8 Con might be asking to much of them. Oh and WarDragon I did not mean lieing to the ladies or something. Just that once they had their Knight in shinning armor every thing else would seem like just a fighter :)
aleshandre 03-30-06, 09:36 PM	In D&D I play exclusively paladins and they never seem to come out vanilla. I don't even go into detail on the history. To me, it's what the paladin does in the present that matters. Of the 2 D&D games that I'm currently playing in, one dual wields pistols and the other wields a double bladed sword that resembles structurally a twin-blade katana (the stats are actually longsword stats, I just like the look of the double katana). My previous paladins have weilded longswords, bastard swords and even a battleaxe. As far as attitudes, one of the current ones has used implications of torture and "turning a blind eye" to it in order to get information from a captive. If it came down to actual torture, he would have tried to prevent it, but he's not above letting a captive believe he won't. The other is very much a strict paladin, who is actually seeking out evil within his own church to eventually rid it of the evil...a dangerous path to choose for a paladin belonging to a church patterned after the inquisition-era Catholic church The latter is even flirting with the rogue of the group (female thief).
Kythras 03-31-06, 01:00 AM	Well, I kinda ongoing joke I have with my DM/other players is the imperfect paladin. Has a stragly brown/black horse, wears leather/rusted breastplade and carries a chipped sword. Always turns up at the Paladin Conventions late, dripping mud and complaining about the kobold problems in the region. In all respects he'd be a totally normal paladin, he'd give his life for others, duel the villain singlehandedly and help anyone in need, only every time he did it he'd look at the sky and mutter "Your just doing this to spite me arn't ye Pelor/Heironeous/Dol Dorn/Torm, I swear I'll polish my holy symbol sometime!" Just because you are the pinnacle of all things good and honourable doesn't mean you have to wear shinying full plate, wield a longsword and ride a white charger. Decent doses of humour make any character interesting... Other PC: "Face it, your an anti-hero!" Paladin: "Not listening!" *Sticks fingers in ears and sings a very off-key psalm*
aleshandre 03-31-06, 09:23 PM	I agree with the previous post. In fact, both of my current paladins don't even wear armor...though they are well groomed.
Cam S. 04-01-06, 10:07 PM	If you're playing a Paladin of Honor (or Justice, as someone previously mentioned) you could base the character off of the Confucian idea of the "Chun Tzu" (loosely: "Gentleman"). He would be preoccupied with his own learning and moral development (as well as inspiring that in others), and with correct ritual practices (signified by "Knowledge: Religion"), and display a great deal of filial piety. All in all, it would make for a good Paladin who focuses on the "Lawful" part of his alignment, but instead of turning in compatriots who violate the code of conduct, he tries to persuade them to change their ways. However, he would be a capable warrior who focuses on honorable combat. So, to sum it up: 1) Focus on Diplomacy, Sense Motive, and Knowledge: Religion, 2) probably a follower of a philosophy (if that's allowed) or St. Cuthbert/Pholtus, 3) Feats to pick up: Persuasive, Expertise, and feats based on expertise for one-on-one fights.
JulesCARV 04-02-06, 12:08 AM	Schizophrenic/visionary paladin: This is a paladin with a very intimate relationship with his deity. A bit unnervingly so. In truth, he could probably use some good psychological help or medication, but such medicine wasn't easy to find back then. He hears voices in his head that he says come from his deity. He has visions of celestials that no one else can see. He has messed up dreams in which he talks to his ancestors, his deity, whatever. Yet there's also something about his madness which isn't so easily dismissed -- brilliant insights, prophetic dreams which become clear in retrospect. About 2/3rds of the time, he's a perfectly normal paladin, if slightly strange and intense. About 1/4th of the time, he's righteously, piously, devoutly insane. About 1/12th of the time, he's lucidly prophetic and brilliantly insightful. That last 1/12th will require a bit of DM intervention. It should never be clear whether he's truly touched by his god and is a messianic figure of sorts or he's just insane. Inspirations: Joan d'Arc, William Blake (had he been a warrior rather than a poet/artist) And a few minor quirks that might add a bit of unusual "flavoring" to the paladin, when combined with other factors. -Refuses to swear oaths: honesty is for all times, not just for when talking under an oath. See Quakers/Friends on "plain speech." -Refuses to use animal products: won't eat meat, eggs, or dairy, won't wear leather or fur. Finding flexible, tough, leatherless shoe soles might be tough in an era before rubber :). Thinks human treatment of animals is ungood and unjust. -PC views on religion: doesn't regard any religions as evil or good: just certain adherents. For example, rather than trying to convert a follower of Erythnul to worshipping, say, Heironeous, he would just try to get her to stop supporting more directly evil causes. Might figure that if enough Erythnul worshippers become good, eventually Erythnul would be forced into a portfolio/domain/alignment change. (who says PC can't be interesting?) -Ex-ex-Paladin ex-blackguard. He used to be a paladin. Still is, in fact. It's just that he was a blackguard for a while. Hey, happens to the best of them. Well, maybe not the best, but some of them, at least. After all, is not Dol Arrah's joy greater for one sheep that went astray and was found, than ninety-nine sheep that never went astray?
Artifact 04-02-06, 03:06 AM	While this is on my mind, please allow me to get this off my chest: I play paladin's quite often. It is my favorite class to play. In my experience, most gamers avoid paladins, maybe because they see them merely as "do-gooders". Nowdays it seems, nobody likes "boy scouts". For example: Captain Kirk/Captain Picard, they were both paladin archtypes (IMHO). They would do what's right, regardless of the cost. I can't help noticing STAR TREK is no longer on TV or in movies; in fact, the latest effort (ENTERPRISE) was a fairly spectacular ratings failure (at least in the long-run). People seem more intrigued by "anti-hereos". For example, on the gritty cop drama THE SHIELD, there are "dirty cops" who will do anything (including murder) to avoid getting caught. The show is a ratings winner. I just wonder how many people would watch STAR TREK if they could watch THE SHIELD instead. Guess which show is still on television? ;) Are "paladins" unrelistic, out-of-date in today's complex world? Can the only possible solution to fighting evil be to embrace it? Personally, I don't think so. I tend to view things this way: There is a dynamic balance between good and evil. The forces of good are few and elite, while the forces of evil are of greater number and of lesser quality. You can't fight evil with evil; the two are simply incompatable. It is this very bias against "paladins" that makes the class an interesting challenge for me to play (and why I likewise find "anti-heroes" to be less than compelling). For inspiration, I often look to television, movies, and books. Characters like Commander Adama (from BATTLESTAR GALACTICA --either version), Clark Kent (from SMALLVILLE), Jarod (from THE PRETENDER). In an episodic series, these characters prove far from boring. Throughout many episodes, their strengths, weaknesses, and motivations can be explored in depth. This is how I think a paladin could be portrayed in an on-going gaming campaign. Thanks for allowing me to rant Quintessential Paladin (v.3.0) by Mongoose Publishing has several good character concepts for paladins. The Appointed: Paladin's who recieve their mission from a holy mission. The Avenger: A paladin who fights evil because he suffered at its hands. The Child of Legend: A child who finds himself gifted with the powers of a paladin and is destined for great things. The Emissary: A celestial who is born of mortal flesh, predestined to become a paladin.
Faithfull-1 04-02-06, 04:38 AM	Juels, Carv those are both great ideas! The Joan of Arc mad and pious idea is inventive and fun. Something I had never thought of before! The philosopher Paladin is intreguing as well. With a high charisma and access to some social skills it would realy be interesting to see how a socialy active Paladin could turn his skills as a political activist or Philospher priest. A warrior against evil with words and tomes and less swords and armor. This thread has been full of good ideas. Thanks to all who have posted for the insperation.
JulesCARV 04-02-06, 04:59 AM	Thanks, Faithfull-1. And a response for Artifact I don't think that anyone on this thread is suggesting making a dark, anti-heroic paladin. We're just trying to find ways of making a paladin more interesting. A paladin needn't be "tainted" to be unconventional and interesting. (In fact, I'd say that being a slightly tainted aspiring hero can be just as clichéd and boring as a stereotypical "shining" paladin.) A peasant paladin isn't an anti-hero, nor is a republican paladin. The visionary paladin isn't quite "right," but isn't an antihero in the typical "walking the line between good and evil" sense. Personally, I think that it should be the forces of evil that are few and elite, and the forces of good that are numerous but of lower quality. The good guys would rather be crafting, farming, writing, creating art, etc, than training for war or making weapons. For example, in an evil kingdom, the peasants might be starving, taxes may be high, and there's no public sanitation, but by golly, every grunt in the kingdom has a healthy, well-fed mount, shining masterwork full plate, a composite bow, a darkwood shield, and a masterwork longsword, and they're all well-trained and well fed. That's their priority: having a strong military. The good kingdom, meanwhile, might rely more on a peasant militia, and a smaller professional force. After all, they don't really fear revolt, since the commoners don't really have any greivances that could be rectified by a new government. They aren't interested in conquering. Of course, the typical commoner in the good kingdom lives 15 years longer than the one in the evil kingdom, on average, and the good kingdom has produced great works of literature, while the evil kingdom has produced shoddy, contrived pieces of propaganda, but D&D isn't about who can write the best literature. :devil: I realize, though, that this is probably a rather unconventional view, and probably deserves a different thread, and it's not the usual style of high fantasy, so maybe it'd be better to have it in some system other than D&D.
Tlazcotl 04-02-06, 09:32 AM	I really liked the mad prophet idea. It all sort of also depends upon what setting that your character is in. Heroes of Valor for the Forgotten Realms setting also has a lot of interesting paladin variants and class/PrC variants for you to look at. I like the Knight of the Weave PrC myself. When I do (rarely, I admit) play a paladin, I don't try to overwork the character by championing all of my god/goddess's causes. Of course the character uses canonical church doctrine to determine right/wrong in general, but she's mostly concerned with one specific aspect of the doctrine; and that focus is usually tied to the character in some personal way. This allows focus and sort of helps shape other bits of her personality. I had a paladin of Clangeddin Silverbeard whose family was slaughtered by raiding giants. She took up the mantle of paladinhood to prevent the same from happening to anyone else. This was... originally her cause, anyway. Eventually, with each giant/ogre/big humanoid that she killed, her psyche slipped further and further into obsession until she ended up founding a borderline-homicidal offshoot of Silverbeard's church with cells whose purpose was to exterminate any giants that they came across. Well, I won't bore you with the rest, but you see my point. Hope I helped. :)
Artifact 04-02-06, 11:52 AM	In response to JulesCARV: I realize that creating an "anti-paladin" isn't the focus of this thread. I've had that particular rant rolling around in my head for a while now and this seemed like a good place to air it out. I didn't want to disrupt the thread however, so I used the hide code so it could be ignored easier. Thanks for putting up with my venting. It didn't exactly fit the topic of the thread, so I apologize if it was out of place. Everyone has contributed some good, solid ideas to this thread: I'm sad because the only idea I had was to rant LOL
Shortstraw 04-03-06, 01:22 AM	Here is a pally i made race: pixie/petal (your choice) pally freedom from unearthed arcana 7 lvls => then go for divine crusader with the hero domain. get the dragon cohort feat and get a faerie dragon and ride around on it with a lance. when u meet a monster fly towards it as fast as possible and when the monster starts laughing cast giant size and bam 50' fairy smacks into them.
Blue Paladin 04-03-06, 12:41 PM	If you have ever seen Power Rangers, Voltron, Sakura Wars, Sailor Moon, G Gundam... All of them are variants on the sentai theme, a team of multicolored allies of justice. Now just think of 5 Paladins, each with a different color and voila. That was us. Red - the leader (for obvious sentai reasons). Hot-blooded, impetuous leader. Tends to rush into situations with little forethought, but learns from his mistakes. There's no way I'll rush into a crowd of kobolds like that again. What? A crowd of goblins? Charge! White - the angry one. Built around damage-damage-damage; the best solution is the blunt solution. Or bladed one. Brutally honest because there's no honor is dissembling. Think of a Klingon, and you're pretty close. Blue - the emotionally distant one (loner). Self-withdrawn, secretly a drow, hence constantly keeping helmet closed and down. A study in dealing with the prejudices of the world at large. Also has philosophical differences of opinion with White re: "necessary" deceptions. Purple - Girl. Isn't is sad how in most sentai, being "the Girl" is differentiation enough? Exceptions do occur (like in Sailor Moon, where everyone's a girl), but I wasn't sure where the player was going with her character. Gold - debu (the big one). By virtue of elimination, the family guy. As he was a bit young (only in early twenties), we figured this meant little brothers and sisters rather than the standard doted-upon child(ren). The true source of stability in the team. Note that even though we were all paladins, all the truly interesting bits about our characters came from our archetypes, not our jobs. While unified in our quest to further Justice (with a capital J), the true fun of the game came in our interactions.
JulesCARV 04-03-06, 10:51 PM	Oh dear: an all paladin team? That just sounds like asking for trouble. "So... got any ranks in search?" "No. You?" "No." "Darn." It would be interesting trying to create a party that consisted entirely of multiclassed paladins who still had access to all of their classes. For example: The straight paladin: The leader, probably. The paladin/rogue/shadowbane inquisitor (with feat: devoted inquisitor): Fills in sneaking, lockpicking type niches. Probably is more a paladin/rogue with a bit of shadowbane inquisitor thrown in than a paladin/shadowbane inquisitor using rogue to meet the prerequisites? The paladin/ranger/justicar (feat: devoted tracker): Tracks. Subdues enemies who must be brought to account for their crimes and don't deserve the overindulgent mercy of a quick death. The paladin/bard (feat: devoted performer): Buffs, inspires courage, and does just about the only arcane casting this party has at all. She's not the greatest arcanist around, but if you're in an all paladin party, she's the only game in town. Also the best "face" and diplomat. Also probably a good preacher, in terms of delivering sermons exhorting people to righteousness and the like. Missing: Dedicated arcanist paladin: there seems to be no way of getting an arcanist stronger than a bard here. Healer paladin: ironically, since paladins are a secondary healing class, healing seems to be a weakness here. With their spells, lay on hands, and remove disease, they'll probably have enough healing for keeping their hit points up, and diseases won't be a problem either, obviously, but I can't see any way of getting Raise Dead or anything of the like into this group.
Artifact 04-04-06, 01:12 AM	Oh dear: an all paladin team? That just sounds like asking for trouble. "So... got any ranks in search?" "No. You?" "No." "Darn." In case anyone missed it, I believe JulesCARV is quoting The Order of the Stick (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript) #290. :D
JulesCARV 04-04-06, 05:57 PM	That's true. Come to think of it, a healer paladin could just be a cleric 7/prestige paladin 13. That would eventually get 7th level clerical spells. Regenerate, raise dead, resurrection, heal... it'll suffice. The problem is, according to UA, prestige paladins and paladins shouldn't exist in the same game. (IMHO, this is unnecessary, though I might bar people from becoming a paladin/prestige paladin, just because of the silliness of it.)
FiestFan 04-05-06, 06:12 PM	The reformed hoodlum or scoundrel is an interesting archetype for Paladins. You could make him a recovering alcoholic/addict, either staunchly preaching against the evils of his former vice, or (more interesting to me), one who still exhibits struggles with the demons of his past. If an addict, portray the difficulty described by Terry Pratchett's Commander Vimes: 'One drink would make it all so clear, but one drink always comes in a dozen glasses.' If a former hoodlum, rather than simply bringing in every common criminal, point out the paltry defenses of various shops and citizens, 'asking to be victims' - lamentable, but true and too numerous to universally help. This shady past doesn't mean a requirement of multiclassing, either. It can simply be included in backstory to add depth to your concept.
Dreamfeed 04-08-06, 10:10 AM	You can get a lot of interesting concepts from other classes. It's really sad thst they restricted multiclassing for paladins, but you can still do it, and it has some good results. Paladin/rogue has been mentioned, and clerics and monks easily fit the theme, but there's more. Two things really stand out: the arcanists and the savage classes. Arcanists make pretty good sense, actually. Study takes devotion, so wizards can have the proper mindset. Sorcerers may get their powers from celestial heritidge, and paladin goes well with that (as well as having charisma as a main stat). You can smite evil with magic just as you can with a sword. If you're using FR, Azuth and Mystra, both gods of magic, each have paladin orders. It might not be the most effective combo, but it's fun to play. Savage paladins might be a bit of a stretch, but hey, why not? Give your paladin a club and some hide armor, and no-one will see the difference. Worship sacred ancestors or nature spirits for your powers. 'Evil' might not be demons or undead, but anything threatening your clan can be evil. Just keep your mind open, and ignore the 'knight in shining armor' stereotype. Anyone with a pure heart and devotion could be a paladin, no matter where they come from. Just changing equipment is a big step. You can have a paladin use a spear or a bow instead of a sword. Perhaps your paladin wears light armor and uses speed to outmanouver evil (paladin/scout multiclass?). It doesn't say anywhere that paladins have to be shining knights, so don't be. It may not be the most effective (I haven't seen a ranged smiting feat anywhere, so ranged combat might not be the best idea, for example), but it's fun.
Bluntpencil2001 04-08-06, 09:37 PM	You can always take the 'knight in shining armour' stereotype, but make him imperfect in one respect, like Lancelot of the Arthurian tales, whose lust gets the better of him. Or he could have a very bad temper if besmirched, demanding duels to the death and trials by combat if insulted. Perhaps he is a nobleman and looks down upon 'the dirty peasants'. Maybe he lacks tolerance for other religions. Of course, this paladin should still be lawful good, but like everyone else - would not be entirely stuck in an 'alignment mold' - and overcoming his or her shortcomings in order to keep his or her status as a paladin would be very interesting.
Wild_Card 04-10-06, 03:31 AM	I haven't seen a ranged smiting feat anywhere, so ranged combat might not be the best idea, for example Ranged Smite Evil, Book of Exalted Deeds, p45.
kelvinaw273 04-10-06, 04:01 AM	There are dozens of suggestions here, so I'll just add my own: 1) Cynical Paladin: Irascable, poor graces, sarcastic, talks as if he expects the worst of everyone. Nobody would guess this guy is a paladin (think Hugh Laurie's performance as House) but he is. He complains about being expected to fight evil, but he does it. He bemoans the state of the common man, but helps him all the same. His demeanour is a mask that protects a noble soul. 2) Philosopher Paladin: Logical, reasonable, thoughtful and wise, the philosopher paladin is cerebral, but still practical. Monk/paladins make a great cross for these (use the feat: Ascetic Knight), living the humble life but rising to the challenges. 3) Tortured Paladin: If killing is wrong, is it justified to kill to destroy evil and protect good? How can you protect the innocent from the horrors of war without doing war? The torured paladin is filled with self-doubt and questions his own every move. He does not fail to act, but agonises afterwards if he did the right thing.
EvilSqueegee 04-10-06, 06:53 AM	For one, Exaulted Deeds (if said local DM allows it) is a good book for paladins (obviously.) Funnily enough, being one of my favorite books, I didn't use it when I was building my favorite paladin character. This character was so much fun to play that he stuck, and I've played him quite often, even translating his character into several different systems and even rebuilding him four times for various campaigns, at different levels. His name was Aubrey Steele. When I built him, I wanted to see how I could add my own personal twist to the smite-evil kind of character that I wanted. Beating the snot out of demons and vile beasties and bandits and villenous wizards just appealed to me, so that was the first thing I did. I gave him the first thing anyone needs to play a hardcore anti-evil character who wants to logically beat the snot out of anything a Detect Evil pings to him: Naivity and zealtory. Now, at first, playing a naive zealot sounds cheezy. So I decided to soup it up a bit. He wasn't all that smart, which might account for his naivity. He was the kind of person who everybody loved, he was cute and friendly and good-looking with an absurdly kind heart for anything that wasn't the dreaded, loathed Evil. Good charisma. But instead of just making him suave, or persuasive... I made him an absolute riot. A funny character. And not one who was trying to be funny. He has what I call Accidental Charisma. He was a pretty good combatant, however, despite this fact thigns would always happent o him that he accidentally brought on himself. He'd blurt things out, get carried away, fail a physical stunt's completion. He was a bumbling child quite often. Another thing I did was facilitate the fact that nobody, and I mean nobody, is perfect - not even a paladin. I gave him a drinking problem. He had his own reasons for drinking, to be sure - not nescesarily drama. He used the phrase "Honoring dad" to justify it whenever someone approached him about it. And originally, that's what it had started out as. Later, it wound up as an addiction. He'd drink himself under the table whenever he could. He kept a hip-flask on his person because whenever he'd find himself in a situation where he didn't know what to do, he'd whip it out and chug, then shrink away. Finally, he lacked any kind of carnal knowledge whatsoever. Yeah, he was good-looking, and yeah, he crusaded for love. But he'd grown up amongst halflings, and there isn't exactly biological compatability there. So he grew up somwhhat sheltered. This was often the source of him whipping out his flask - say, when a barmaid hit on him out right, or when fate (read: the DM) conspired to put him into really, really awkward situations because of his lack of carnal knowledge. The character turned out really fun to play. The entire party from back then STILL rants about the Aubrey Adventures. He got into so much trouble, lost his powers and had to atone quite a few times, even fell in love and found a maiden to crusade for. Oddly enough... she was just like he was, sans the drinking problem. It was a blast to play him, and I still get warm fuzzies every time someone says "Remember the time when Aubs..." or they quote one of his famous 'i am an idiot' lines. I got everything I wanted out of playing Aubs. I got to smite evil CRAPLESS (in game, he was an uncontrollable character who focused all his hate onto the evil he fought, almost like a flavorful berserker) without sacrificing that ability so I could play a character with personality. He had his background, too. Always had wanted to be a knight in shining armor growing up. Called to the path from the start, and worked his butt off to get there. Not too much drama, nothing to tragic. In his eyes, saying goodbye to ma and pa back at the halfling villaige was tragic. The stuff he encountered in his adventures - comrades dying, HIMSELF dying, his lover being kidnapped - were a blast to play out because it wasn't a "this isn't happening AGAIN" motivation, it wasn't a "stop the past from repeating itself" emo situation. He'd chug a few ales, and charge into combat. There was no plan of action for aubrey aside from "Smite evil, charge in and take down anything in the way" and yet there was so much more to him than that. He had a really well-rounded personality, he was real and relatable. He had wekanesses, strengths, he had a believable personality. And he was a break from the ever-cool action-hero-wannabe emo-driven dark-and-gritty kinds of characters I'd being playing all the way up untill that point. I'm just letting you know what I did for a flavorful paladin. Paladins are always hailed as the strongest of fighters in the battle for good. Think of ways to variate from this. An incompotent paladin is a viable way to do that, no?
malignor 04-13-06, 06:24 PM	1) The Black Heart, the Bloostained Past, Bearer of the Hateful Mark Make him a traitor... to his old kingdom... which was evil. He was once a horrible man, corrupt nobility who did awful things and drank deeply into the pleasures of the flesh. Then he was captured and fell in love with his priestess captor. He was rescued by his brother, but his love was killed in the process, and he defected and smuggled her body back to her temple for proper burial (something prevented resurrection). Out of spite and inspiration, he denounced his old kingdom and his old ways and made the oaths and joined the holy order. Now he struggles in the temptation of his old ways, which so long defined his life. He is haunted by dreams of his holy maiden. He is also consumed daily with revenge; to kill his own brother... but his oaths force him to try and save his soul instead. To make matters worse, he bears the mark of his old kingdom (a tattoo on his face), which the commoners recognize as a hateful thing. Few trust him, many hate him for who he is and what his mark represents. 2) The Confused Chosen One of Lost Prophecy Born under a certain sign to an obscure religious sect, the prophets were sure that your character was the reincarnation of a great holy man. You were raised under that assumption and eventually showed signs that you were indeed in possesson of divine power. Then some mercenaries came (hired by a rival sect) and wiped out the temple. Since you were still a child, one merc took pity and adopted you, raising you to be a warrior. Little does anyone know you may be a great religious icon in waiting. One day, some wandering group of beggars recognized it, calling you the Messiah of the Lion. Over the years, this has been happening more and more, even as you discover your faith and join the church (the one that wiped out your old order, but you don't know that). Your father approves but seems troubled. 3) The Paranoid Conspiracy Theorist During training, you were squire to one of a group that broke up a demon worship cult. In the struggle, you had to defend your lord knight and help in slaying a man. Unfortunately, he was the son of the emperor or pope. You have all kept this secret over the years. Then, one by one, the knights involved were found and assassinated. Only you remain. You are a knight in the ranks of what could be an evil man, holding a dark secret that his own son, a worshipper of demons, died by your hands.
The_Shaman 04-21-06, 10:38 PM	Plainclothed paladin: One's first idea about this soft-spoken, poorly-dressed man is that he is not an adventurer, period. Well, if he were, he would be one of those strange, weird-fighting monks. A poor cleric, at best. Who in their right minds would walk almost unarmored (except a jerkin) and carry nothing more than a staff? Not to mention that he seems probably the most humble, calm individual everyone has ever seen, and somehow manage not to notice neither his bulging muscles nor the calloused hands of someone who has spent a lot of time wielding weapons. He keeps out of trouble and does a very good job at it - even the local thugs see no reason to bother the kind middle-hearted man who can apparently talk his way out into - and out of orkish victory-feast and drinking the chief's ale. When kind words or good-natured humor don't help, however, the plainclothed paladin shows exactly why the quarterstaff is considered a weapon, and how dangerous it can be in the hands of a master. The plainclothes paladin is no knight, first and foremost - he is a warrior of his god, not of the lords of the earth, and the leather jerkin and quarterstaff are good enough for him. He prefers not to kill, but simply incapacitate his foes with his staff, and knows a lot of maneuvers to do so effectively. His honor is measured by his adherence to the scriptures, not by how impressive he looks on a shining steed. Possible multiclass options - monk, fighter, swashbuckler (lightly armed, exotic style). "Local" paladin: Sure, s/he is a staunch believer (insert LN/LG/NG deity here), has taken the oaths, is a holy warrior of light, etc. Ok, no problem - but there is no more welcome sight in any tavern in the town than the good-natured, boisterous and flirtatious knight with shining armor that every tavern wench (or bartender) dreams about. 18 Charisma needs to be roleplayed, and this character plays it to the hilt - a people person through and through, this knight has a magnetic personality the power of an average black hole, and manages to turn even the most rowdy establishment into a place where you can get a free beer from your neighbor. In the line of duty, the character is just as friendly and outgoing, but with a dependability and, if need be, tenacity that is almost... dwarven. Only in the direst cases does the smile leave his or her lips, and it always comes back carried on a wave of hearty laughter when the trouble is gone. This knight in shining armor is glad to be alive and radiates optimism and zest for life like a beacon. Think a bit like Carrot from the Diskworld, save his more insightful moments where he rivals the Patrician in foresight.