Paradox Paladin....is it paladin-like? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Paradox Paladin....is it paladin-like? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Nicholas the Paladin
10-07-04, 09:08 AM Hi there,

I'm currently playing a level 4 paladin that I want to give a very human side.... by making him somewhat paradoxal. But I'm not quite sure if it's right for a paladin.

The paladin is a paladin of Ilmater, but who (as part of his development) will be multiclassing as a Cleric of Tyr (and thus 'will drop' the teachings of Ilmater). This is part of him wanting to play a more pro-active role in the battle against evil.

His charachter:
- He's very forgiving and kind in normal behaviour.... willing to take all suffering of the world onto himself. But in fighting-situations with 'evil' he's somewhat loosing himself in fits of rage (representing his frustration about the world and being unable to deal with it). I'm using the Power Attack a lot, while fighting Evil.
- He's very religious and completely dedicated to his faith and it's dogma, ...but in the same time he can be very superstitious....for whitch he is very ashamed. But he's unable to fully controll it (like ...he mistrusts the number 5 and thinks that wolves represent something mystic)
- He's very well groomed and always clean, ...but once in a while he get all melancholic;...he forgets to shave, get's a tired look on his face and is less sociable and more to himself.

Is this Paladin-like?
Or do I risk being not 'up for the challenge' being a paladin?
Vharuck
10-07-04, 05:20 PM I don't think you can multiclass as a cleric of Tyr unless the two Gods are close friends. If they are, I'm sure they won't mind. If it doesn't explicitly say that, they may not like it. He could steal be a paladin of Ilmater who does his rage against the world thing during combat, but afterwards he begs forgiveness from Ilmater and regrets what he does. He adventures in the hopes that he'll one day be able to control the "evil" urges that overcome him.

I dunno, my thoughts, take 'em or bash 'em, they're yours now.
Morka
10-07-04, 07:36 PM For those who don't know Forgotten Realms, Tyr and Ilmater are close friends; they form, with Torm, a LG triad. If he somewhat realizes that his thinking is closer to Tyr cult than to Ilmater's, I don't think anyone would mind if he switches is primary faith. Especially in your case, as your pally is really hard on the Smite Evil side, I think he's closer to Tyr than Ilmater. Also, it is really paladin-like to have doubting episodes; no one can be sure if what he's doing is absolutely right. He could try to pray to both Tyr and Ilmater for answers, but get few. He might believe that becoming a cleric will put him closer to his god.

There's a little thing I'm not sure to have understood in your question: do you want to be a paladin of Ilmater and a cleric of Tyr in the same time? This is pretty weird, and I don't think it is possible. What should be the roleplaying difference between a paladin of Tyr and Ilmater? Is it because a paladin of Ilmater is allowed to multiclass into a cleric? If it's your concern, I think he can only multiclass into a cleric of Ilmater...
Nicholas the Paladin
10-08-04, 02:19 AM ......., but afterwards he begs forgiveness from Ilmater and regrets what he does. He adventures in the hopes that he'll one day be able to control the "evil" urges that overcome him.[QUOTE]

Nice. I think I will use that more often. "Dear Patron, I fear that I didn't act completely honourable. PLlase forgive me."

[QUOTE=Morka] For those who don't know Forgotten Realms, Tyr and Ilmater are close friends; they form, with Torm, a LG triad. If he somewhat realizes that his thinking is closer to Tyr cult than to Ilmater's, I don't think anyone would mind if he switches is primary faith.

Yes, this is indeed what I had in mind. He wants to be forgiving and kind (Ilmater), but sometime he can't deal with the injustice around him and gets in a fit. What I know of the Paladins of Tyr is that they are in the 'forefront against evil'...I like it.

Especially in your case, as your pally is really hard on the Smite Evil side, I think he's closer to Tyr than Ilmater. Also, it is really paladin-like to have doubting episodes; no one can be sure if what he's doing is absolutely right. He could try to pray to both Tyr and Ilmater for answers, but get few. He might believe that becoming a cleric will put him closer to his god.

I think you hit the nail on the head. He does pray to Ilmater and Tyr for answers. He want's to be closer to his god and this is indeed why I want him to be a cleric too....of Tyr that is.

There's a little thing I'm not sure to have understood in your question: do you want to be a paladin of Ilmater and a cleric of Tyr in the same time? This is pretty weird, and I don't think it is possible. What should be the roleplaying difference between a paladin of Tyr and Ilmater? Is it because a paladin of Ilmater is allowed to multiclass into a cleric? If it's your concern, I think he can only multiclass into a cleric of Ilmater...

No, I will switch faith completely. So he is a Paladin of Tyr and a Cleric of Tyr. Buf ofcourse, you can't just drop a teaching of Ilmater if you lived by it for years. But dont think that those two faiths collide. As you said Morka; Tyr, Torm and Ilmater are close friends.

Thanks for aswering but the switching of faith is not what I'm concerned about.

What I'm wondering about is, when my paladin get's a) fits of rage, is b) superstitious and c) not all about chivalry when he forgets to groom himself, not sociable and with a look full of sorrow................ is he being a paladin?

Doesn't being a paladin mean, that you act your best, even when your heart, soul and body are 'down' a lot.
aleshandre
10-08-04, 01:10 PM Fits of rage are definitely un-paladin-like, though at most it would require a minor penance, usually self imposed, since they aren't major violations of his god's strictures and since said rages are against evil, they would likely be overlooked.
Superstition isn't necessarily unlike a paladin, since much of what we call superstition is completely real in fantasy settings.
Grooming is important to a paladin, because it gives an outward appearance of what they are supposed to represent - goodness and obedience. On the other hand, if a paladin doesn't feel clean, he/she may be less inclined to look clean. This would be an outward expression of feelings of guilt for offenses (real or imagined) that (s)he made against his/her god. Failure to groom may be construed by others to be a mark of a paladin who has fallen, which would do no good to the paladin's reputation.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Nicholas the Paladin 10-07-04, 09:08 AM	Hi there, I'm currently playing a level 4 paladin that I want to give a very human side.... by making him somewhat paradoxal. But I'm not quite sure if it's right for a paladin. The paladin is a paladin of Ilmater, but who (as part of his development) will be multiclassing as a Cleric of Tyr (and thus 'will drop' the teachings of Ilmater). This is part of him wanting to play a more pro-active role in the battle against evil. His charachter: - He's very forgiving and kind in normal behaviour.... willing to take all suffering of the world onto himself. But in fighting-situations with 'evil' he's somewhat loosing himself in fits of rage (representing his frustration about the world and being unable to deal with it). I'm using the Power Attack a lot, while fighting Evil. - He's very religious and completely dedicated to his faith and it's dogma, ...but in the same time he can be very superstitious....for whitch he is very ashamed. But he's unable to fully controll it (like ...he mistrusts the number 5 and thinks that wolves represent something mystic) - He's very well groomed and always clean, ...but once in a while he get all melancholic;...he forgets to shave, get's a tired look on his face and is less sociable and more to himself. Is this Paladin-like? Or do I risk being not 'up for the challenge' being a paladin?
Vharuck 10-07-04, 05:20 PM	I don't think you can multiclass as a cleric of Tyr unless the two Gods are close friends. If they are, I'm sure they won't mind. If it doesn't explicitly say that, they may not like it. He could steal be a paladin of Ilmater who does his rage against the world thing during combat, but afterwards he begs forgiveness from Ilmater and regrets what he does. He adventures in the hopes that he'll one day be able to control the "evil" urges that overcome him. I dunno, my thoughts, take 'em or bash 'em, they're yours now.
Morka 10-07-04, 07:36 PM	For those who don't know Forgotten Realms, Tyr and Ilmater are close friends; they form, with Torm, a LG triad. If he somewhat realizes that his thinking is closer to Tyr cult than to Ilmater's, I don't think anyone would mind if he switches is primary faith. Especially in your case, as your pally is really hard on the Smite Evil side, I think he's closer to Tyr than Ilmater. Also, it is really paladin-like to have doubting episodes; no one can be sure if what he's doing is absolutely right. He could try to pray to both Tyr and Ilmater for answers, but get few. He might believe that becoming a cleric will put him closer to his god. There's a little thing I'm not sure to have understood in your question: do you want to be a paladin of Ilmater and a cleric of Tyr in the same time? This is pretty weird, and I don't think it is possible. What should be the roleplaying difference between a paladin of Tyr and Ilmater? Is it because a paladin of Ilmater is allowed to multiclass into a cleric? If it's your concern, I think he can only multiclass into a cleric of Ilmater...
Nicholas the Paladin 10-08-04, 02:19 AM	......., but afterwards he begs forgiveness from Ilmater and regrets what he does. He adventures in the hopes that he'll one day be able to control the "evil" urges that overcome him.[QUOTE] Nice. I think I will use that more often. "Dear Patron, I fear that I didn't act completely honourable. PLlase forgive me." [QUOTE=Morka] For those who don't know Forgotten Realms, Tyr and Ilmater are close friends; they form, with Torm, a LG triad. If he somewhat realizes that his thinking is closer to Tyr cult than to Ilmater's, I don't think anyone would mind if he switches is primary faith. Yes, this is indeed what I had in mind. He wants to be forgiving and kind (Ilmater), but sometime he can't deal with the injustice around him and gets in a fit. What I know of the Paladins of Tyr is that they are in the 'forefront against evil'...I like it. Especially in your case, as your pally is really hard on the Smite Evil side, I think he's closer to Tyr than Ilmater. Also, it is really paladin-like to have doubting episodes; no one can be sure if what he's doing is absolutely right. He could try to pray to both Tyr and Ilmater for answers, but get few. He might believe that becoming a cleric will put him closer to his god. I think you hit the nail on the head. He does pray to Ilmater and Tyr for answers. He want's to be closer to his god and this is indeed why I want him to be a cleric too....of Tyr that is. There's a little thing I'm not sure to have understood in your question: do you want to be a paladin of Ilmater and a cleric of Tyr in the same time? This is pretty weird, and I don't think it is possible. What should be the roleplaying difference between a paladin of Tyr and Ilmater? Is it because a paladin of Ilmater is allowed to multiclass into a cleric? If it's your concern, I think he can only multiclass into a cleric of Ilmater... No, I will switch faith completely. So he is a Paladin of Tyr and a Cleric of Tyr. Buf ofcourse, you can't just drop a teaching of Ilmater if you lived by it for years. But dont think that those two faiths collide. As you said Morka; Tyr, Torm and Ilmater are close friends. Thanks for aswering but the switching of faith is not what I'm concerned about. What I'm wondering about is, when my paladin get's a) fits of rage, is b) superstitious and c) not all about chivalry when he forgets to groom himself, not sociable and with a look full of sorrow................ is he being a paladin? Doesn't being a paladin mean, that you act your best, even when your heart, soul and body are 'down' a lot.
aleshandre 10-08-04, 01:10 PM	Fits of rage are definitely un-paladin-like, though at most it would require a minor penance, usually self imposed, since they aren't major violations of his god's strictures and since said rages are against evil, they would likely be overlooked. Superstition isn't necessarily unlike a paladin, since much of what we call superstition is completely real in fantasy settings. Grooming is important to a paladin, because it gives an outward appearance of what they are supposed to represent - goodness and obedience. On the other hand, if a paladin doesn't feel clean, he/she may be less inclined to look clean. This would be an outward expression of feelings of guilt for offenses (real or imagined) that (s)he made against his/her god. Failure to groom may be construed by others to be a mark of a paladin who has fallen, which would do no good to the paladin's reputation.