Post/Author/DateTime	Post
thegreatbuddha 03-01-05, 10:33 PM	So, in my upcoming game I will have a recurring villian that i need help fleshing out. The rough sketch so far is a one-eyed ex-paladin who fell under the influence of an evil trickster god, and still thinks that he is a true paladin. I'll be using a modified version of the blackguard, for example swapping out the familiar with either a nightmare or skeletal warhorse (not sure yet), but the character will perceive it in all ways as a typical paladin mount. His background so far is pretty rough; he killed the family of one of my PCs, mistakenly thinking they were demon-worshippers. The PC escaped, putting out the pally's eye in the process. The ex-paladin captured his sister however, and I'm thinking that he has raised her as an apprentice of sorts (possibly a cleric worshipping the trickster god, but I'm not sure yet). The blackguard is being deceived, and thus thinks that he is still a paladin. Thus, he still fights evil wherever he can, and tries to uphold the paladin code, but his mentality has been subtly warped, and he is willing to use any means necessary to achieve the greater good. If he believes a demon is hiding in an inn populated with inocents, he sees nothing wrong with burning it down and killing everyone, so long as evil is vanquished. Like I said, it's all rough at this point in time, and i could use the help of a collective like this to help flesh things out and give him those little character quirks we all love so much. Thanks in advance for any help....
Zerolight 03-02-05, 03:33 AM	I like the idea of being tricked into evil, I would focus it more on his zeal toward destoring evil, and his difference in perception. Yea he killed some PCs family but there was no other way for him to rid them of the demonic influence that plagued them, they are better off now, purified. Such things have to be done. If ye but only knew the strength of these vile creatures, one must have the courage and dedication to do anything needed. It is for those weak in faith that turn away form wrong when they see it in any form or any amount. This leads to the second major hook I would add, Punishment. As he was "purifing" the families house a lone inhabitant, so adiment in his evil, struck out of the shadow permently blinding one eye. This fell beast escaped into the darkness, its rightful place, but he will not rest until this creature is given his due. Ofcorse there may be a heal spell that would help to cure the eye but he refuses say that it is a reminder of the evil in this world and those who would befriend evil. You could sorta have a Le Mirserab feel to it all. Depending on the feel your going for again I would heavily suggest this villian to have some way to not have his alignment detectable or even have it allways show up as LG. A necklace given to him by a priest of the trickster god perhaps maybe even a few other powers. He would say it was bestoed apon him for his selflessness in action and dedication to his cause. Two reasons for the alignment. One is that if constantly faced with peers telling him, "um dude yer EVIL!!", he would have to really insane to keep thinking he wasnt. Second and more important is it lets him keep a high standing with good forces, a distant standing but still there. Old palys would defend him and listen to the stories in his words and slants. Young palys that feel the tide of evil is growing to fast and admire this man outcries for frim movement to quell these continuing problems, might even start a cult around him and also slip into being unknown blackguards. This could become an important thing where the PCs become villified for speaking against such a revered man. They may be some of the few who know the truth or they might not no it is all being ran by the evil trickster god. :thinks: And consider this, the PC says that the ex-paly is evil and killed his family, but the sister doesnt remeber it that way and defends the ex-paly. It could be demonic influence, confusion, or just brainwashing since she was young and the paly took her in. Just suggestion but tell me what you think. edit: just reading thread "ideas for a paly" and i was thinking a Shadowbane Inquisitor or more like ex-Inquisitor would be great for your villian.
thegreatbuddha 03-03-05, 02:01 AM	First, thanks for the input. I appreciate it, both for confirming some of the stuff already in my mind and addign some new elements to the char. Second, I definitely see this guy as a loner, possibly hunted by his order if they're awre of him. He sees it as them not being hardcore enough in their dedication to fighting evil. After all, only the pure of heart can become paladins. Everyone else has commited some degree of sin in their life, and any ill that may become them by getting in his way is their just punishment. Third, I had envisioned the sister as being sympathetic to the blackguard, but now I'm having second thoughts, since one of the character's goals is to reunite with his sister. If she's still alive, which he doesn't know at this point. Would that just be a good story, or would that be more like punishing my player by not rewarding him when he gave me such a great inspiration for a villain? Also, one additional question, which is probably Optimization territory, but I didn't want to ask their, fearing I'd wind up with a VerminLord / Hulking Hurler / Swashbuckler build. Are there any PrCs that would be better for this character than a plain old blackguard? I was thinking of modifying the Paladin of Tyrrany from the CAV, but didn't know if better options were available. P.S. What source is Shadowbane Inquisitor in? I may have to check it out.
Zerolight 03-03-05, 03:44 AM	Well i can feel the idea about him being a loner, it works better for a recurring charecter, while the other idea would lean more towards him being a BBEG , i dont know what that stands for but I know its a end o campaing boss err somthing. As far as the sister being sympathic to the Blackgaurd, thats the only way I think it would all make sense. I dont know the timespan between her abduction and your starting point, but she must be held by somthing, or be a captive in a more strict sense of the word. By, held by somthing I mean have a reason to not try and escape, the problem with sympathy to the blackgaurd is WHY? why would she say with the man that killed her family. Was she old enough to remember this? Did he convence her that he really saved her? There are plenty of ways to handle it, I am assuming she is at a realitivly mature age where she can make her own decesions ( If the girl is still a child I would just have her held somewhere). I would have the her soul taken form her body and use to power some demonic device. Maybe the blackgaurd collects the souls of children ( to protect and save them form eventual corruption of corse). There are all kinds of ways to handle the body, the PC could have it in the care of a church where it lays in coma waiting for the return of its soul, or you could even have it inhabitted by a demon that assist the blackguard. The PC could even have his sister's soul, taken after he put out the villians eye, but the body and a small remainder of her soul (so that the PC cant just get her reincarnated) are in the posession of there enemy. If they ever defeat the blackgaurd could then return the soul to the sister's body reuniting the remaining family, or they defeat the blackguard only to find that he has offered the girl to some demon and the party will have to fight there ways threw the abyss to locate it. The second thing i sorta like, is the girl growin up under the blackgurad as an aprentice. My be he lie to her as a confused little girl and begain to train her in his corrupt ways. She could have even realized that he is evil and that he probally did kill her family, but where would she go if not with him (she thinks all her family is dead) and she has become evil. With the apperance of a living family member and the confermation of her mentor role in the destruction of her kin, she might be moved toward vengence and freed form his reign. This doesnt mean she turns good, she might remain or become more evil after a life of such hardships. She might take the chance to learn what it means to be a real paladin. I wonder if there are any stats for blackguards that become paladins? Who knows but I wouldn't look at it as a punishment for you player, his sister is still retrivable but he has to put in some work to get her. The Shadowbane Inquistor is in Complete Adventurer. I would really suggest asking the people over in Charecter Optimization about stats they can be a huge help. BE SPECIFIC about what you want, especial the feel and style. Go ahead and write about his back story then ask how to but it into game mechanics. You will find it very helpful.
The_Yellow_Dart_Swinger 03-03-05, 10:53 AM	BBEG= Big Bad Evil Guy I'm 99% sure thats what it stands for. Basicly the main villian in an adventure or campaign that the PC's are trying to stop or the villian is trying to stop the PC's. Also the villian presents some sort of challenge to the PC's. For the sister being sympathetic. I got two words for you: Compulsion Magic. Having a servent of the god cast something like modify memory on the sister so she precieved that her brother went insane and killed their familiy and the (ex)-pally came and saved her. And prehaps a few other high level compusion magic's I'm too lazy to look up in the PHB. Can always imbue a magic item with a permenant compulsion spell. And even though you want to make him a loner, I still think he would have some cronies. Prehaps some 'angelic' looking devils that the ex-pally does precieve as angels based on their looks, kinda like Erinyes (CR 8 in the MM) and just modify the stats to suit your needs. And there is a possibility that there would be servents of the trickster god working for him, or really controlling him, like advisers. And another possiblity is that some other people would think that most pally's are 'hard enough' on evil and join him. As a religious zealot aka against 'evil'. He would want to spread his message around to attract others to his cause if not directly under him. So when I say cronies, that doesn't mean he can order them around, but prehaps they see the world like he does, twisted. Or not, the choice is completely yours.
thegreatbuddha 03-03-05, 07:39 PM	I like the memory modification idea, because then I can pit sibling vs sibling and still wind up with the happy ending. Consider it stolen ;) Also, a servant of the trickster god "advising" him is perfect, because the servants of this god don't have their own temples or organized clergy. They consist solely of clerics hiding within the ranks of other temples. I can easily have one of his superiors in the paladin order be a cleric of the Imposter, and it not only gives me a feasible method of controlling the paladin, but it also allows me to add another BBEG to the campaign. I'll probably let my players uncover the BBEG in a Vader-esque redemption of the paladin just before he dies. Overdone? Yes, but still effective. I also like the idea of collecting souls for the purposes of "saving" them, but the campaign is fairly low magic and that won't fit too well. Otherwise, it would be stolen as well. The low-magic will also rule out most outsiders, as the world is effectively sealed from planar travel a la Ravenloft. Quick Jaunts into the Astral and Ethereal can occur, but they don't readily connect to other planes. It would require a 9th level spell to travel to another plane, and there are only about four to five people in the world capable of casting such magicks. Thanks for the input ZeroLight and TYDS, i appreciate it. Keep it coming.
saethone 03-05-05, 01:57 AM	those are great ideas for villans! especially a memory modification item one - perhaps a ring or necklace the (ex)pally gave her as he explained the PC flipping out and killing her family, and she never takes it off because its so important to her