Party Behavior and Racism. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Party Behavior and Racism. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Semat
08-17-04, 07:01 PM First time posting on these forums, or any forums for that matter.
In any case, one of my group's current campaigns has a character problem.
My friend and I built two characters that have known each other for their entire lives (or rather, my character's half elven life to his Elven life) and are both rogues. We both had our personalities (I should mention an anti-human sentiment involved in the history of our world) down for our characters before gameplay, unlike the other to players. A fighter merc, who as we all know likes "Swords, Killing, Gold", and a Cleric (who has little player-to-character contact).
We the rogues dominate the game, because we know how our characters would act in the certain situations. This doesn't really bother the fighter, because he amuses himself out of game until the fighting starts happening. However, it annoys the Cleric like nothing else, because we continually force him to do unlawful things and often times leave him out of conversations because he cannot speak elven (he's a human).
Now the problem is our party is not a true party, which makes it hard to play. Me and my "brother" don't have any attachments to the other two players, the fighter would go to the highest bidder, and the cleric has his own agenda outside the party. Also the anti-human sentiment that me and my brother share conflicts with the other two players.

Do you guys have any idea how to make our party whole that doesn't involve getting rid of the sentiment (Its very important to the world and our characters)?
Do you guys have any idea how to evolve a clerics sense of character in game?
Gilmir
08-18-04, 09:45 AM well, it seems to me that the half elf and the elf that you are playing are roleplaying well, you seem to be keeping in character and have an interesting character for your pc. The problem seems to be that the cleric hasn't yet developed a good idea of his character, and does not know how to react to your characters actions. the cleric should be encouraged to develop a personality and react in game to stimuli, that seem to be from the two rogues. It does not matter if the cleric's character is angry towards the rogues, as long as the roleplaying is good and it doesn't extend to out of game with real friction between the players. in many games i have played in the best campagins i have participated in are those where there is differences between characters in the game, it makes things interesting.

good luck with your game, i hope that i have helped
Tony Vargas
08-18-04, 02:53 PM Originally posted by Semat
Do you guys have any idea how to make our party whole that doesn't involve getting rid of the sentiment (Its very important to the world and our characters)?
Do you guys have any idea how to evolve a clerics sense of character in game?

Clerics have it pretty easy in terms of motivation - they have a religion to uphold and a deity to serve. So, obvious question, cleric of whom?

Aparently he's lawful, so he shouldn't be letting a couple of fast-talking elves get him into questionable activities. He certainly shouldn't accept thier use of elven to exclude the other party members. At minimum, it's impolite, at worst, they could be plotting against the others! He should try to get the fighter to see the wisdom of bringing the two arrogant inhumans 'into line' or simply breaking with them if they aren't going to aproach the party relationship in a reasonable manner.

Of course, the world, and the cleric's deity have a bearing on it. If elves are in some sort of sacrosanct position in society, or are favored by the gods (or the DM), he'll have to put up with a lot more from them, for instance.

Ultimately, if the cleric player steps up to his role, it should lead to some reasonable intra-party conflict - on the level of words, rather than blows - and, to some degree of growth for all the characters. The cleric needs to grow into his role, the elves need to make some progress working through thier obvious character flaws, and the fighter needs to wake up and realize there's more going on than combat...
Rudysseus
08-18-04, 07:02 PM Alignments and Deities for the involved members would help flesh things out a bit more.

That being said, if the rogues are racist towards humans, as in totally disgusted by them, odds are they wouldn't be adventuring with them in the first place, unless circumstances dictate they have to (such as being in war time, or in a pre-paid mercenary company that are contractually obligated to stay together).

If they just think humans are uncultured apes, then the fighter does nothing to dissuade this notion, but the cleric might. Try talking to him in character, and helping him along in developing his character's personality, which can make the entire group gel a bit more (especially if its starting to be a problem between the players that like to RP and those that just like to roll and loot).

You as rogues shouldn't stop conversing in elven once and a while, especially over controversial decisions, and when doing things that may put the cleric on your backs. A little inter-party strife can be a good thing if it leads to the cleric coming out of his shell. At the end, the 2 rogues could just say "okay, we'll do things your way." and give each other a quick elven " For now..."

Now if the cleric is evil, like a cleric of Bane, he'd likely tell you that you are to speak in a tongue that everyone can understand when conversing in front of the group, or feel his wrath.
Angry loners are cliche, encourage him to be something different.

The elven types could start using the cleric as a way to change their opinions on the human race, especially if he's a good aligned cleric. They could start off thinking the guys like all humans, greedy, ambitious, or whatever stereotype the elves want to throw at humans, and then as they see cleric-guy healing, or helping others, etc. they can maybe stop being so reserved.

There is nothing to say that all rogues are tight-lipped people that sit in the dark corners. A lot of the best rogues are extroverted people that are always talking, laughing, gambling, and trying to help themselves and everyone else having a good time.
Morka
08-18-04, 09:21 PM You should speak to the DM to have the cleric "save your lives". Not only by healing you between too battles, but by doing something really cool. This way, that should make the two elven rogues like this guy. You could hate humans in general, but this guy will still be a friend.

Gimli: I cannot die beside an elf.
Legolas: What about dying beside a friend?
Gimli: That, I can do!

With all my apologies toward the true citation, I saw the movie in french!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Semat 08-17-04, 07:01 PM	First time posting on these forums, or any forums for that matter. In any case, one of my group's current campaigns has a character problem. My friend and I built two characters that have known each other for their entire lives (or rather, my character's half elven life to his Elven life) and are both rogues. We both had our personalities (I should mention an anti-human sentiment involved in the history of our world) down for our characters before gameplay, unlike the other to players. A fighter merc, who as we all know likes "Swords, Killing, Gold", and a Cleric (who has little player-to-character contact). We the rogues dominate the game, because we know how our characters would act in the certain situations. This doesn't really bother the fighter, because he amuses himself out of game until the fighting starts happening. However, it annoys the Cleric like nothing else, because we continually force him to do unlawful things and often times leave him out of conversations because he cannot speak elven (he's a human). Now the problem is our party is not a true party, which makes it hard to play. Me and my "brother" don't have any attachments to the other two players, the fighter would go to the highest bidder, and the cleric has his own agenda outside the party. Also the anti-human sentiment that me and my brother share conflicts with the other two players. Do you guys have any idea how to make our party whole that doesn't involve getting rid of the sentiment (Its very important to the world and our characters)? Do you guys have any idea how to evolve a clerics sense of character in game?
Gilmir 08-18-04, 09:45 AM	well, it seems to me that the half elf and the elf that you are playing are roleplaying well, you seem to be keeping in character and have an interesting character for your pc. The problem seems to be that the cleric hasn't yet developed a good idea of his character, and does not know how to react to your characters actions. the cleric should be encouraged to develop a personality and react in game to stimuli, that seem to be from the two rogues. It does not matter if the cleric's character is angry towards the rogues, as long as the roleplaying is good and it doesn't extend to out of game with real friction between the players. in many games i have played in the best campagins i have participated in are those where there is differences between characters in the game, it makes things interesting. good luck with your game, i hope that i have helped
Tony Vargas 08-18-04, 02:53 PM	Originally posted by Semat Do you guys have any idea how to make our party whole that doesn't involve getting rid of the sentiment (Its very important to the world and our characters)? Do you guys have any idea how to evolve a clerics sense of character in game? Clerics have it pretty easy in terms of motivation - they have a religion to uphold and a deity to serve. So, obvious question, cleric of whom? Aparently he's lawful, so he shouldn't be letting a couple of fast-talking elves get him into questionable activities. He certainly shouldn't accept thier use of elven to exclude the other party members. At minimum, it's impolite, at worst, they could be plotting against the others! He should try to get the fighter to see the wisdom of bringing the two arrogant inhumans 'into line' or simply breaking with them if they aren't going to aproach the party relationship in a reasonable manner. Of course, the world, and the cleric's deity have a bearing on it. If elves are in some sort of sacrosanct position in society, or are favored by the gods (or the DM), he'll have to put up with a lot more from them, for instance. Ultimately, if the cleric player steps up to his role, it should lead to some reasonable intra-party conflict - on the level of words, rather than blows - and, to some degree of growth for all the characters. The cleric needs to grow into his role, the elves need to make some progress working through thier obvious character flaws, and the fighter needs to wake up and realize there's more going on than combat...
Rudysseus 08-18-04, 07:02 PM	Alignments and Deities for the involved members would help flesh things out a bit more. That being said, if the rogues are racist towards humans, as in totally disgusted by them, odds are they wouldn't be adventuring with them in the first place, unless circumstances dictate they have to (such as being in war time, or in a pre-paid mercenary company that are contractually obligated to stay together). If they just think humans are uncultured apes, then the fighter does nothing to dissuade this notion, but the cleric might. Try talking to him in character, and helping him along in developing his character's personality, which can make the entire group gel a bit more (especially if its starting to be a problem between the players that like to RP and those that just like to roll and loot). You as rogues shouldn't stop conversing in elven once and a while, especially over controversial decisions, and when doing things that may put the cleric on your backs. A little inter-party strife can be a good thing if it leads to the cleric coming out of his shell. At the end, the 2 rogues could just say "okay, we'll do things your way." and give each other a quick elven " For now..." Now if the cleric is evil, like a cleric of Bane, he'd likely tell you that you are to speak in a tongue that everyone can understand when conversing in front of the group, or feel his wrath. Angry loners are cliche, encourage him to be something different. The elven types could start using the cleric as a way to change their opinions on the human race, especially if he's a good aligned cleric. They could start off thinking the guys like all humans, greedy, ambitious, or whatever stereotype the elves want to throw at humans, and then as they see cleric-guy healing, or helping others, etc. they can maybe stop being so reserved. There is nothing to say that all rogues are tight-lipped people that sit in the dark corners. A lot of the best rogues are extroverted people that are always talking, laughing, gambling, and trying to help themselves and everyone else having a good time.
Morka 08-18-04, 09:21 PM	You should speak to the DM to have the cleric "save your lives". Not only by healing you between too battles, but by doing something really cool. This way, that should make the two elven rogues like this guy. You could hate humans in general, but this guy will still be a friend. Gimli: I cannot die beside an elf. Legolas: What about dying beside a friend? Gimli: That, I can do! With all my apologies toward the true citation, I saw the movie in french!