Playing a Succubus [Archive] - Wizards Community

Playing a Succubus [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
shogunboy0
03-18-08, 12:27 AM Normally, Succubus would be CE, but I'm going to roleplay a CN that had her alignment changed by her childhood (if that is possible), and that the fact that she was captured by a wizard and recused by adventurers.

Her stats are 12 str, 18 dex (+2 glove of dex), 16 con, 20 int, 13 wis, 26 cha. Her perference in battle is to shoot from a distance unless otherwise, but rather avoid battle unless needed. Her profession is a dancer due to her past, and does her best not to show her true nature. Her role in the party is to be the party face, and dipolmat to avoid battle. Her childhood is currently fuzzy, but she remembers her childhood in a nice home.

The jewerly helps her to blend in nobles. She used to be CE also due to her past and her previous nature (before she had a change of heart), and she was CE during her adulthood after a genocide was given by a king. Her family name was Serrano, and the family was famous for crafting fine jewerly. Her parent's name were Thokul and Sara, and were once adventurers before retirement.
During her travels with her old party, she slowly regain her memories as a human, and currently fighting against her evil nature. The party was well aware of her as a demon, but knew she wasn't the usual type. She is a knowledgeable, easy-going (dispite the fact of her past), and one to befirend easily (assuming her true nature was not found). At times, she could be short tempered, and even foolish. She at time tends to act sexual, and desiring love (due to her nature), but she only kill when the offender threatens her closest friends.

Before she was in the current party, her old party were in the ruins to search for an artfict that a famous temple wanted. After she casted a spell to make sure nothing bad happened, she found out that her party triggered a trap that most adventurers would not care to look for. After a few minutes, the ruin started to crumble, and in a short time, two of her friends died quickly from a huge bolder, and the other three told her to leave. She didn't want to leave her friends, but the three were holding a huge stone door to keep it open. The cleric told her to leave. Stalling, she was hesitiant to run. Before she left, the cleric told her, "Just because your a demon, doesn't mean your heartless." Tearful she was, she left the ruins, and fell to the ground, crying. After the rumbling stopped, she made 5 graves for her friends on the very site that they were killed. With a heave heart, she moved on, and tried to find new friends and more of her past.

The question is (sorry about the length), is...
1. Am I missing anything else (trying to work on my bio, as my last one had to be revised 6 times)
2. Could a succubus be played like this, and do I need a stronger reason that she ceased to be CE?
3. any other improvments or issues?
Janzen
03-18-08, 10:40 AM I personally love role-playing the good turned evil or the other way around.

To answer your second question Noo... I don't think you need a stronger reason that she isn't Chaotic Evil anymore. She feels the need to live on doing good ( even though she is now CN ? ) to respect her fallen comrades that sacrifaced themselves to save her.

In the past experience I rule that any creature with Int/Wis can resist thier inner nature to do evil or good. We had a Succubus ( NPC ) follow us around but she was mainly a Ryoko ( Anime: Tenchi Muyo ) in D&D form that wasn't evil just wanted to have fun while dringing. In the same campaign our Monk was cursed by a Werewolf but since he trained his body and mind he could resist the urge to be evil.

I hope that helps ^.^
Stormbrand
03-18-08, 01:51 PM Main subject I must point out is demons do not have childhoods. Nor parents or families. Best not to think of her as a person at all.

A succubus is nothing other than the embodiment of illict sex - the destructive and corruptive aspects. So seduction and temptation is as important as sex is, and since succubi are destruction through passion, they are probably incapable of love.

My view of demons is that free will is the choice between torturing someone with fire or instead using spiky things.

In effect, the change a demon must undergo to not be pure evil is more than mental or psychological, they must be altered on a spiritual level. IE: Outright spiritual transformation.

These are important starting points.
The_Shaman
03-18-08, 05:52 PM Stormbrand makes a very important point: certain outsiders, unlike people, are not quite free to choose their alignment - not even predisposed toward it, like dragons are. A succubus is literally an incarnation of evil and chaos, and it would take nothing less than a miracle to change her outlook so much. Even then, living as something else than a cruel, whimsical she-demon would be a trial on par with a vampire denied blood. Being able to maintain such an alignment would be a monumental task all in itself. We're not talking about resisting temptations, but resisting one's very nature - the difference is kinda like not drinking beer and not drinking, period. Remember Fall-from-Grace? Everyone from the entourage of TNO had to cope with an inner torment, and hers was in no way the smallest. She had to live denying her own being - and as she said to Ravel in their conversation, it hurt.

I'm not saying that there can not be outsiders who change their alignment - just as there are fallen angels, there can be "fallen" fiends, and these can make quite interesting characters. However, Shogunboy, you should be aware that this character will need a lot more than a bad childhood - or whatever fiends have instead of it - to become a non-CE demon.

Speaking of which, I wonder if an alignment-based outsider who somehow changes their alignment won't also undergo a physical transformation as well. After all, their alignment is practically seeped in their bones... So a CN deva, a TN modron, or a LE fallen archon might look somewhat different from their "pure" kin. That might further shake the fallen succubus - not only is she trying to make a living having no idea of what she's supposed to be and what she's supposed to be doing, but her own body has begun to mutate!
Neraagile
03-18-08, 06:22 PM Stormbrand makes a very important point: certain outsiders, unlike people, are not quite free to choose their alignment - not even predisposed toward it, like dragons are. A succubus is literally an incarnation of evil and chaos, and it would take nothing less than a miracle to change her outlook so much. Even then, living as something else than a cruel, whimsical she-demon would be a trial on par with a vampire denied blood. Being able to maintain such an alignment would be a monumental task all in itself. We're not talking about resisting temptations, but resisting one's very nature - the difference is kinda like not drinking beer and not drinking, period. Remember Fall-from-Grace? Everyone from the entourage of TNO had to cope with an inner torment, and hers was in no way the smallest. She had to live denying her own being - and as she said to Ravel in their conversation, it hurt.

I'm not saying that there can not be outsiders who change their alignment - just as there are fallen angels, there can be "fallen" fiends, and these can make quite interesting characters. However, Shogunboy, you should be aware that this character will need a lot more than a bad childhood - or whatever fiends have instead of it - to become a non-CE demon.

Speaking of which, I wonder if an alignment-based outsider who somehow changes their alignment won't also undergo a physical transformation as well. After all, their alignment is practically seeped in their bones... So a CN deva, a TN modron, or a LE fallen archon might look somewhat different from their "pure" kin. That might further shake the fallen succubus - not only is she trying to make a living having no idea of what she's supposed to be and what she's supposed to be doing, but her own body has begun to mutate!

Well from a mechanical point of view it is possible. But flavor wise the offender usually does not survive longer than it's earlier ages, especially demons and devils.
Also, why do think it's CN not CG being played? It's CE nature with a will of CG combining into a mishmash and ending up as a CN character, on a different note, Succubi/Incubi (you could get permission to play the latter which is essentially a male Succubus, should be Devils not Demons for the simple reason, they a calculating, manipulating creatures that is more bent on tempting mortals into sin rather than simple destruction)
shogunboy0
03-18-08, 07:30 PM Main subject I must point out is demons do not have childhoods. Nor parents or families. Best not to think of her as a person at all.

A succubus is nothing other than the embodiment of illict sex - the destructive and corruptive aspects. So seduction and temptation is as important as sex is, and since succubi are destruction through passion, they are probably incapable of love.

My view of demons is that free will is the choice between torturing someone with fire or instead using spiky things.

In effect, the change a demon must undergo to not be pure evil is more than mental or psychological, they must be altered on a spiritual level. IE: Outright spiritual transformation.

These are important starting points.

I know one page of the wizard's website where they mention a succubus paladin a while ago, and I was trying to shape it in a different way. I mean, if there is other exmaples of outright spiritual transformation, that would help. I guess its because I watch too much japanese animation that I think for demons and devils redeemable (in extreme reasons).
runestar
03-18-08, 07:58 PM Succubus are technically made, not born, since they are promoted from dretches when appropriate.

Also, they have teleport at will, so she could have easily just zipped to the surface. The party holding the door open for her made no sense - they should have just concentrated on saving themselves, unless she was using change shape to disguise herself and they were unaware of her true identity and capabilities.

That said, CN is not really that far off from CE - she can still do pretty much the same stuff, just with different motivations (less malicious intent) and the outcome is rarely as destructive. For instance, she may still charm 2 fighters into fighting each other, but that is more to just pass the time because she is bored. She might instruct them not to cause any fatal injuries, and maybe even leave them some money at the end of the fight to treat their wounds.

Still, I agree with the rest. Unless she was made CN, it would generally require an extreme scenario to get her to have a change of heart, seeing as to how she is pretty much infused with chaos and evil (her subtypes).
shogunboy0
03-18-08, 09:33 PM Succubus are technically made, not born, since they are promoted from dretches when appropriate.

Also, they have teleport at will, so she could have easily just zipped to the surface. The party holding the door open for her made no sense - they should have just concentrated on saving themselves, unless she was using change shape to disguise herself and they were unaware of her true identity and capabilities.

That said, CN is not really that far off from CE - she can still do pretty much the same stuff, just with different motivations (less malicious intent) and the outcome is rarely as destructive. For instance, she may still charm 2 fighters into fighting each other, but that is more to just pass the time because she is bored. She might instruct them not to cause any fatal injuries, and maybe even leave them some money at the end of the fight to treat their wounds.

Still, I agree with the rest. Unless she was made CN, it would generally require an extreme scenario to get her to have a change of heart, seeing as to how she is pretty much infused with chaos and evil (her subtypes).

Well, in my case, I'm using monster classes from Savage Species, so the teleporting thing is a problem, but the disguise could work.
runestar
03-18-08, 10:05 PM I guess you could say that her initial plan was to grab some artifact the party was after (and which she also wanted for her own nefarious plan), spring a few traps and then zip out using teleport. But the place turned out to be warded against teleportation, and in the ensuing confusion, the artifact got lost or something. Still, despite her betrayal, the party went out of their way to ensure everyone's safety, including hers (no artifact means no conflict of interests now), ultimately sacrificing their lives in the process. Only she managed to escape (perhaps due to a combination of having expendable meat shields, luck, dr, the ability to teleport near the end?).:D

Maybe that struck a chord within her? She could not understand why they would even bother with her after she had cheated them so. But they did...
Stormbrand
03-18-08, 10:34 PM Speaking of which, I wonder if an alignment-based outsider who somehow changes their alignment won't also undergo a physical transformation as well. After all, their alignment is practically seeped in their bones... So a CN deva, a TN modron, or a LE fallen archon might look somewhat different from their "pure" kin. That might further shake the fallen succubus - not only is she trying to make a living having no idea of what she's supposed to be and what she's supposed to be doing, but her own body has begun to mutate!

I fully agree with this idea... in fact I take this a step further, and would rule that a demon changed to CN alignment is now a Slaad, and a demon changed to CG is now an Eldrarin I think.
shogunboy0
03-19-08, 12:42 AM I fully agree with this idea... in fact I take this a step further, and would rule that a demon changed to CN alignment is now a Slaad, and a demon changed to CG is now an Eldrarin I think.

Not every DM's world would have outsiders change based on alignment. My DM is willing to accept my succubus as a CN.
Stormbrand
03-19-08, 07:28 AM Not every DM's world would have outsiders change based on alignment. My DM is willing to accept my succubus as a CN.

Which is fine, I openly said that it was just how I personally do it.

My point to all this is this: work from the assumption that being a succubus should mean something to the background. They should not think or act like humans with bat-wings. So your alignment needs 2 questions answering... 1 - Why did she choose to be non-evil? 2 - How was she able to?

In your first post, you mentioned an old party. How did she meet/join them? How did she start adventuring in the first place? What has she spent her time doing generally?

Make a list of all the things succubi are (eg: seductive, cruel, deceitful, whimsically destructive), then make another of all the things they are not (start with - mortal, human, etc).

One option I can suggest for CN... somehow gaining free will (which needs explaining in itself), and being naturally rebellious, rejects evil purely to exercise that free will - probably lacking the presence of mind to think about rejecting chaos as well.

How this interacts with normal succubus traits is up to you. Generally there should be no middle ground with this option. Either she is pure sex on legs (and wings), or an utter prude as an automatic rebellion against her nature.
The_Shaman
03-19-08, 08:35 AM I fully agree with this idea... in fact I take this a step further, and would rule that a demon changed to CN alignment is now a Slaad, and a demon changed to CG is now an Eldrarin I think.

I wouldn't take it that far, just that a CN succubus would look notably different - and possibly have different abilities.
runestar
03-19-08, 08:42 AM Well, none of her abilities are specifically evil.

Charm monster, detect thoughts, ethereal jaunt, suggestion and teleport are used by pretty much any caster of any alignment, so it seems unlikely a succubus would lose access to those just because she switched alignments.

Detect good might be changed to detect law or something. RAW, she retains her evil subtype and dr/good, though I can see that changing (losing the evil subtyle, dr changing to dr/lawful or evil or something). Maybe affect her ability to summon other demons.

Energy drain is annoying, but not really inherently evil either.

In the end, it seems that all that needs to be done is to change how she would use her SLAs, rather than do away with them altogether. I can still totally see a CN succubus spamming charm monster and suggestion with impunity.:)
xcountry
03-19-08, 10:38 PM I odn't know much about the game but the changing of one's soul using it fegerly or moral could of been caused by a curse or a blessing what ever u call it that marked her/him with a tato that caused or to not want to do or force her not to do evil deeds
shogunboy0
03-20-08, 07:09 PM I odn't know much about the game but the changing of one's soul using it fegerly or moral could of been caused by a curse or a blessing what ever u call it that marked her/him with a tato that caused or to not want to do or force her not to do evil deeds

I am sorry to say this, but I can not understand on what you are saying.
runestar
03-20-08, 07:18 PM I think he is suggesting that she be part of some sort of curse that compels her to do good deeds. Like that vampire with a soul thingy from the "Angel" tv series.:P
xcountry
03-20-08, 08:29 PM what i meant is the succubus switch a a trap that caused a spell to go off, which marked her physically in some way example a tatoo, this "spell" either alowed her to do good things or forced her to whitch ever way u want to go, and yes like Angel, the vampire with a soul
Drackthor
03-21-08, 02:39 AM what i meant is the succubus switch a a trap that caused a spell to go off, which marked her physically in some way example a tatoo, this "spell" either alowed her to do good things or forced her to whitch ever way u want to go, and yes like Angel, the vampire with a soul

So somewhere, someway, a trapmaker was commissioned on the idea of "In my dank dungeon, I want the next mindless rube to walk through the door to get hit with a tatoo that makes them do good things."? I don't follow.
xcountry
03-21-08, 08:53 AM ya pretty much, if this "tattoo" caused them to be good then they wouldn't of kept the "artifact", so that could be the reason the trap maker wanted to make that specific trap
Heliomance
03-25-08, 08:01 AM One possibility is a mad thaumatist (like a scientist, but with magic) who decided to see what would happen if you infused a succubus with celestial material. After several failed attempts - most of which left his lab covered in demon bile, after the subject died horibly, even exploding in a few cases - he managed to make one survive. The incredible, unbelievable result - a succubus with a concience.
Panartias
03-25-08, 01:00 PM Why not go for a half - demon?! In 2e the (female) offspring of a succubus and a human was called Alu-fiend. It was only slightly weaker than a succubus ( 5hd not 6 and +1 weapons to hit not +2; most powers are very similar)
The MM entry ends with: "Interestingly enough, 20% of alu-fiends are not totally dedicated to evil. This usually occurs when a succubus mates with a non evil human. The offspring may retain just a piece of her fathers morality. These monsters will tend to be chaotic neutral or true neutral in alignment."
The father could have been a powerfull wizard or sorcerer, who summoned a succubus to have fun or just someone who was seduced by a (polymorphed) succubus. When he learned of his child, he "rescued" her (alone or with help from adventurers) and left her with foster-parents.

When you use this, you don't need big changes to your background (just leave a few points vague for your DM to detail/use as plot-hooks) plus it should be much easier to role-play, because the character is much more "human" and still has almost all of the succubus powers!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
shogunboy0 03-18-08, 12:27 AM	Normally, Succubus would be CE, but I'm going to roleplay a CN that had her alignment changed by her childhood (if that is possible), and that the fact that she was captured by a wizard and recused by adventurers. Her stats are 12 str, 18 dex (+2 glove of dex), 16 con, 20 int, 13 wis, 26 cha. Her perference in battle is to shoot from a distance unless otherwise, but rather avoid battle unless needed. Her profession is a dancer due to her past, and does her best not to show her true nature. Her role in the party is to be the party face, and dipolmat to avoid battle. Her childhood is currently fuzzy, but she remembers her childhood in a nice home. The jewerly helps her to blend in nobles. She used to be CE also due to her past and her previous nature (before she had a change of heart), and she was CE during her adulthood after a genocide was given by a king. Her family name was Serrano, and the family was famous for crafting fine jewerly. Her parent's name were Thokul and Sara, and were once adventurers before retirement. During her travels with her old party, she slowly regain her memories as a human, and currently fighting against her evil nature. The party was well aware of her as a demon, but knew she wasn't the usual type. She is a knowledgeable, easy-going (dispite the fact of her past), and one to befirend easily (assuming her true nature was not found). At times, she could be short tempered, and even foolish. She at time tends to act sexual, and desiring love (due to her nature), but she only kill when the offender threatens her closest friends. Before she was in the current party, her old party were in the ruins to search for an artfict that a famous temple wanted. After she casted a spell to make sure nothing bad happened, she found out that her party triggered a trap that most adventurers would not care to look for. After a few minutes, the ruin started to crumble, and in a short time, two of her friends died quickly from a huge bolder, and the other three told her to leave. She didn't want to leave her friends, but the three were holding a huge stone door to keep it open. The cleric told her to leave. Stalling, she was hesitiant to run. Before she left, the cleric told her, "Just because your a demon, doesn't mean your heartless." Tearful she was, she left the ruins, and fell to the ground, crying. After the rumbling stopped, she made 5 graves for her friends on the very site that they were killed. With a heave heart, she moved on, and tried to find new friends and more of her past. The question is (sorry about the length), is... 1. Am I missing anything else (trying to work on my bio, as my last one had to be revised 6 times) 2. Could a succubus be played like this, and do I need a stronger reason that she ceased to be CE? 3. any other improvments or issues?
Janzen 03-18-08, 10:40 AM	I personally love role-playing the good turned evil or the other way around. To answer your second question Noo... I don't think you need a stronger reason that she isn't Chaotic Evil anymore. She feels the need to live on doing good ( even though she is now CN ? ) to respect her fallen comrades that sacrifaced themselves to save her. In the past experience I rule that any creature with Int/Wis can resist thier inner nature to do evil or good. We had a Succubus ( NPC ) follow us around but she was mainly a Ryoko ( Anime: Tenchi Muyo ) in D&D form that wasn't evil just wanted to have fun while dringing. In the same campaign our Monk was cursed by a Werewolf but since he trained his body and mind he could resist the urge to be evil. I hope that helps ^.^
Stormbrand 03-18-08, 01:51 PM	Main subject I must point out is demons do not have childhoods. Nor parents or families. Best not to think of her as a person at all. A succubus is nothing other than the embodiment of illict sex - the destructive and corruptive aspects. So seduction and temptation is as important as sex is, and since succubi are destruction through passion, they are probably incapable of love. My view of demons is that free will is the choice between torturing someone with fire or instead using spiky things. In effect, the change a demon must undergo to not be pure evil is more than mental or psychological, they must be altered on a spiritual level. IE: Outright spiritual transformation. These are important starting points.
The_Shaman 03-18-08, 05:52 PM	Stormbrand makes a very important point: certain outsiders, unlike people, are not quite free to choose their alignment - not even predisposed toward it, like dragons are. A succubus is literally an incarnation of evil and chaos, and it would take nothing less than a miracle to change her outlook so much. Even then, living as something else than a cruel, whimsical she-demon would be a trial on par with a vampire denied blood. Being able to maintain such an alignment would be a monumental task all in itself. We're not talking about resisting temptations, but resisting one's very nature - the difference is kinda like not drinking beer and not drinking, period. Remember Fall-from-Grace? Everyone from the entourage of TNO had to cope with an inner torment, and hers was in no way the smallest. She had to live denying her own being - and as she said to Ravel in their conversation, it hurt. I'm not saying that there can not be outsiders who change their alignment - just as there are fallen angels, there can be "fallen" fiends, and these can make quite interesting characters. However, Shogunboy, you should be aware that this character will need a lot more than a bad childhood - or whatever fiends have instead of it - to become a non-CE demon. Speaking of which, I wonder if an alignment-based outsider who somehow changes their alignment won't also undergo a physical transformation as well. After all, their alignment is practically seeped in their bones... So a CN deva, a TN modron, or a LE fallen archon might look somewhat different from their "pure" kin. That might further shake the fallen succubus - not only is she trying to make a living having no idea of what she's supposed to be and what she's supposed to be doing, but her own body has begun to mutate!
Neraagile 03-18-08, 06:22 PM	Stormbrand makes a very important point: certain outsiders, unlike people, are not quite free to choose their alignment - not even predisposed toward it, like dragons are. A succubus is literally an incarnation of evil and chaos, and it would take nothing less than a miracle to change her outlook so much. Even then, living as something else than a cruel, whimsical she-demon would be a trial on par with a vampire denied blood. Being able to maintain such an alignment would be a monumental task all in itself. We're not talking about resisting temptations, but resisting one's very nature - the difference is kinda like not drinking beer and not drinking, period. Remember Fall-from-Grace? Everyone from the entourage of TNO had to cope with an inner torment, and hers was in no way the smallest. She had to live denying her own being - and as she said to Ravel in their conversation, it hurt. I'm not saying that there can not be outsiders who change their alignment - just as there are fallen angels, there can be "fallen" fiends, and these can make quite interesting characters. However, Shogunboy, you should be aware that this character will need a lot more than a bad childhood - or whatever fiends have instead of it - to become a non-CE demon. Speaking of which, I wonder if an alignment-based outsider who somehow changes their alignment won't also undergo a physical transformation as well. After all, their alignment is practically seeped in their bones... So a CN deva, a TN modron, or a LE fallen archon might look somewhat different from their "pure" kin. That might further shake the fallen succubus - not only is she trying to make a living having no idea of what she's supposed to be and what she's supposed to be doing, but her own body has begun to mutate! Well from a mechanical point of view it is possible. But flavor wise the offender usually does not survive longer than it's earlier ages, especially demons and devils. Also, why do think it's CN not CG being played? It's CE nature with a will of CG combining into a mishmash and ending up as a CN character, on a different note, Succubi/Incubi (you could get permission to play the latter which is essentially a male Succubus, should be Devils not Demons for the simple reason, they a calculating, manipulating creatures that is more bent on tempting mortals into sin rather than simple destruction)
shogunboy0 03-18-08, 07:30 PM	Main subject I must point out is demons do not have childhoods. Nor parents or families. Best not to think of her as a person at all. A succubus is nothing other than the embodiment of illict sex - the destructive and corruptive aspects. So seduction and temptation is as important as sex is, and since succubi are destruction through passion, they are probably incapable of love. My view of demons is that free will is the choice between torturing someone with fire or instead using spiky things. In effect, the change a demon must undergo to not be pure evil is more than mental or psychological, they must be altered on a spiritual level. IE: Outright spiritual transformation. These are important starting points. I know one page of the wizard's website where they mention a succubus paladin a while ago, and I was trying to shape it in a different way. I mean, if there is other exmaples of outright spiritual transformation, that would help. I guess its because I watch too much japanese animation that I think for demons and devils redeemable (in extreme reasons).
runestar 03-18-08, 07:58 PM	Succubus are technically made, not born, since they are promoted from dretches when appropriate. Also, they have teleport at will, so she could have easily just zipped to the surface. The party holding the door open for her made no sense - they should have just concentrated on saving themselves, unless she was using change shape to disguise herself and they were unaware of her true identity and capabilities. That said, CN is not really that far off from CE - she can still do pretty much the same stuff, just with different motivations (less malicious intent) and the outcome is rarely as destructive. For instance, she may still charm 2 fighters into fighting each other, but that is more to just pass the time because she is bored. She might instruct them not to cause any fatal injuries, and maybe even leave them some money at the end of the fight to treat their wounds. Still, I agree with the rest. Unless she was made CN, it would generally require an extreme scenario to get her to have a change of heart, seeing as to how she is pretty much infused with chaos and evil (her subtypes).
shogunboy0 03-18-08, 09:33 PM	Succubus are technically made, not born, since they are promoted from dretches when appropriate. Also, they have teleport at will, so she could have easily just zipped to the surface. The party holding the door open for her made no sense - they should have just concentrated on saving themselves, unless she was using change shape to disguise herself and they were unaware of her true identity and capabilities. That said, CN is not really that far off from CE - she can still do pretty much the same stuff, just with different motivations (less malicious intent) and the outcome is rarely as destructive. For instance, she may still charm 2 fighters into fighting each other, but that is more to just pass the time because she is bored. She might instruct them not to cause any fatal injuries, and maybe even leave them some money at the end of the fight to treat their wounds. Still, I agree with the rest. Unless she was made CN, it would generally require an extreme scenario to get her to have a change of heart, seeing as to how she is pretty much infused with chaos and evil (her subtypes). Well, in my case, I'm using monster classes from Savage Species, so the teleporting thing is a problem, but the disguise could work.
runestar 03-18-08, 10:05 PM	I guess you could say that her initial plan was to grab some artifact the party was after (and which she also wanted for her own nefarious plan), spring a few traps and then zip out using teleport. But the place turned out to be warded against teleportation, and in the ensuing confusion, the artifact got lost or something. Still, despite her betrayal, the party went out of their way to ensure everyone's safety, including hers (no artifact means no conflict of interests now), ultimately sacrificing their lives in the process. Only she managed to escape (perhaps due to a combination of having expendable meat shields, luck, dr, the ability to teleport near the end?).:D Maybe that struck a chord within her? She could not understand why they would even bother with her after she had cheated them so. But they did...
Stormbrand 03-18-08, 10:34 PM	Speaking of which, I wonder if an alignment-based outsider who somehow changes their alignment won't also undergo a physical transformation as well. After all, their alignment is practically seeped in their bones... So a CN deva, a TN modron, or a LE fallen archon might look somewhat different from their "pure" kin. That might further shake the fallen succubus - not only is she trying to make a living having no idea of what she's supposed to be and what she's supposed to be doing, but her own body has begun to mutate! I fully agree with this idea... in fact I take this a step further, and would rule that a demon changed to CN alignment is now a Slaad, and a demon changed to CG is now an Eldrarin I think.
shogunboy0 03-19-08, 12:42 AM	I fully agree with this idea... in fact I take this a step further, and would rule that a demon changed to CN alignment is now a Slaad, and a demon changed to CG is now an Eldrarin I think. Not every DM's world would have outsiders change based on alignment. My DM is willing to accept my succubus as a CN.
Stormbrand 03-19-08, 07:28 AM	Not every DM's world would have outsiders change based on alignment. My DM is willing to accept my succubus as a CN. Which is fine, I openly said that it was just how I personally do it. My point to all this is this: work from the assumption that being a succubus should mean something to the background. They should not think or act like humans with bat-wings. So your alignment needs 2 questions answering... 1 - Why did she choose to be non-evil? 2 - How was she able to? In your first post, you mentioned an old party. How did she meet/join them? How did she start adventuring in the first place? What has she spent her time doing generally? Make a list of all the things succubi are (eg: seductive, cruel, deceitful, whimsically destructive), then make another of all the things they are not (start with - mortal, human, etc). One option I can suggest for CN... somehow gaining free will (which needs explaining in itself), and being naturally rebellious, rejects evil purely to exercise that free will - probably lacking the presence of mind to think about rejecting chaos as well. How this interacts with normal succubus traits is up to you. Generally there should be no middle ground with this option. Either she is pure sex on legs (and wings), or an utter prude as an automatic rebellion against her nature.
The_Shaman 03-19-08, 08:35 AM	I fully agree with this idea... in fact I take this a step further, and would rule that a demon changed to CN alignment is now a Slaad, and a demon changed to CG is now an Eldrarin I think. I wouldn't take it that far, just that a CN succubus would look notably different - and possibly have different abilities.
runestar 03-19-08, 08:42 AM	Well, none of her abilities are specifically evil. Charm monster, detect thoughts, ethereal jaunt, suggestion and teleport are used by pretty much any caster of any alignment, so it seems unlikely a succubus would lose access to those just because she switched alignments. Detect good might be changed to detect law or something. RAW, she retains her evil subtype and dr/good, though I can see that changing (losing the evil subtyle, dr changing to dr/lawful or evil or something). Maybe affect her ability to summon other demons. Energy drain is annoying, but not really inherently evil either. In the end, it seems that all that needs to be done is to change how she would use her SLAs, rather than do away with them altogether. I can still totally see a CN succubus spamming charm monster and suggestion with impunity.:)
xcountry 03-19-08, 10:38 PM	I odn't know much about the game but the changing of one's soul using it fegerly or moral could of been caused by a curse or a blessing what ever u call it that marked her/him with a tato that caused or to not want to do or force her not to do evil deeds
shogunboy0 03-20-08, 07:09 PM	I odn't know much about the game but the changing of one's soul using it fegerly or moral could of been caused by a curse or a blessing what ever u call it that marked her/him with a tato that caused or to not want to do or force her not to do evil deeds I am sorry to say this, but I can not understand on what you are saying.
runestar 03-20-08, 07:18 PM	I think he is suggesting that she be part of some sort of curse that compels her to do good deeds. Like that vampire with a soul thingy from the "Angel" tv series.:P
xcountry 03-20-08, 08:29 PM	what i meant is the succubus switch a a trap that caused a spell to go off, which marked her physically in some way example a tatoo, this "spell" either alowed her to do good things or forced her to whitch ever way u want to go, and yes like Angel, the vampire with a soul
Drackthor 03-21-08, 02:39 AM	what i meant is the succubus switch a a trap that caused a spell to go off, which marked her physically in some way example a tatoo, this "spell" either alowed her to do good things or forced her to whitch ever way u want to go, and yes like Angel, the vampire with a soul So somewhere, someway, a trapmaker was commissioned on the idea of "In my dank dungeon, I want the next mindless rube to walk through the door to get hit with a tatoo that makes them do good things."? I don't follow.
xcountry 03-21-08, 08:53 AM	ya pretty much, if this "tattoo" caused them to be good then they wouldn't of kept the "artifact", so that could be the reason the trap maker wanted to make that specific trap
Heliomance 03-25-08, 08:01 AM	One possibility is a mad thaumatist (like a scientist, but with magic) who decided to see what would happen if you infused a succubus with celestial material. After several failed attempts - most of which left his lab covered in demon bile, after the subject died horibly, even exploding in a few cases - he managed to make one survive. The incredible, unbelievable result - a succubus with a concience.
Panartias 03-25-08, 01:00 PM	Why not go for a half - demon?! In 2e the (female) offspring of a succubus and a human was called Alu-fiend. It was only slightly weaker than a succubus ( 5hd not 6 and +1 weapons to hit not +2; most powers are very similar) The MM entry ends with: "Interestingly enough, 20% of alu-fiends are not totally dedicated to evil. This usually occurs when a succubus mates with a non evil human. The offspring may retain just a piece of her fathers morality. These monsters will tend to be chaotic neutral or true neutral in alignment." The father could have been a powerfull wizard or sorcerer, who summoned a succubus to have fun or just someone who was seduced by a (polymorphed) succubus. When he learned of his child, he "rescued" her (alone or with help from adventurers) and left her with foster-parents. When you use this, you don't need big changes to your background (just leave a few points vague for your DM to detail/use as plot-hooks) plus it should be much easier to role-play, because the character is much more "human" and still has almost all of the succubus powers!