Post/Author/DateTime	Post
efraker 09-18-06, 02:35 AM	I'm having a hard time thinking of a back-story or personality for my character, and so as to the suggestion of someone in a similarly titled thread in my usual haunts (Character Optimization), I decided to come ask. I'm playing in a gestalt Ravenloft campaign starting Tuesday night. Our end-goal is to kill my character from the last campaign. The last campaign was theme'd after the 7 sins, and my character, Pride, was among the ones selected as sinful enough to become Dark Lord of his own realm. My new character is a grey elf who has levels from warblade, warmage, wyrm wizard, and jade phoenix mage. He's fairly formidable; but not "optimized". He's got medium/high balanced stats in everything (except Wisdom, which I dumped. He's got 8 Wisdom). He has a lot of useless feats to support a little "trick" he learned via the Wyrm Wizard's Spell Research (gain a spell known from any list). His real trick is his cohort. He has the Draconic Cohort feats, and the Arcane Familiar feats, and a pseuodragon as his familiar. A familiar can accept any spell with a range of "personal" upon its self instead of the caster, so I took the Wu Jen's "Giant Size" spell for my Spell Research (I would have just played Wu Jen itself, but that class was banned because of a character I played last year). Because you can take a class or feat if you can qualify for it, even if you don't always, my pseudodragon took all the levels of WarHulk... so, the trick is for a couple of minutes per day, my already reasonably formidable character can have a colossal sized monk/warhulk pseudodragon with 72 strength. My DM doesn't know yet, but it's all stuff he ok'd individually, and it gives me a nice opportunity to use my colossal red dragon mini. So um, if I haven't appalled you all yet, can anyone tell me what sort of personality they'd expect a grey elf master swordsman/living artillery piece with a big 'ol pal might have?
TheChilliGod 09-18-06, 03:42 AM	...Character Optimization...Uh-Oh. Storm coming....gestalt Ravenloft campaign... I knew it! It had to be gestalt!...My new character is a grey elf who has levels from warblade, warmage, wyrm wizard, and jade phoenix mage... I have to look up five books, one of which I don't have, to understand the implications of that combination....He's fairly formidable; but not "optimized". He's got medium/high balanced stats in everything (except Wisdom, which I dumped. He's got 8 Wisdom). He has a lot of useless feats to support a little "trick" he learned via the Wyrm Wizard's Spell Research (gain a spell known from any list)... Not optimized. Gestalt. Four classes/prc's. "Trick." Bull:censored: His real trick... Oh no! ...is his cohort. Cohort?!? ...He has the Draconic Cohort feats, and the Arcane Familiar feats, and a pseuodragon as his familiar... Useless feats my holy vegetable ass....the Wu Jen's "Giant Size" spell for my Spell Research (I would have just played Wu Jen itself, but that class was banned because of a character I played last year)...The DM solved the wrong problem! :D ...my pseudodragon took all the levels of WarHulk...Sweet Mother of Kord, kill me now! ...monk/warhulk pseudodragon with 72 strength.My eyes, they burst spasmodically because they refuse to accept this! My DM doesn't know yet, but it's all stuff he ok'd individually, and it gives me a nice opportunity to use my colossal red dragon mini. *Commits seppuku* :ghosted: So um, if I haven't appalled you all yet, can anyone tell me what sort of personality they'd expect a grey elf master swordsman/living artillery piece with a big 'ol pal might have? Sure, I'll be glad to help. Okay, grey elves are usually pompous and holier-than-thou, right? Also, warblades require lots of bardic attention and maybe some swooning followers, right? So do dragons, for that matter. And the Nine Swords book says that Jade Pheonix Mages can be arrogant, so that also fits in nicely. Furthermore, you're completely justified in wanting lots of attention, because you have a potentially huge-ass dragon monster on your side, and you could theoretically kill anyone who treats you without the respect you are quite clearly due. This is Ravenloft, and even though I don't know what that setting's like, I do know that it is dark and scary enough for this sort of behavior to be mildly acceptable in the setting. Just not acceptable on the table. Maybe the grey elf could make exceptions for any whom he deems worthy (possibly including those that don't die after being hit by a spell or something as a 'rite' or something, I dunno.), meaning that the other players are safe from any derogatory comments from your character that might be taken personally. In short, a really fitting personality for your character would definitely be an insufferable jackass-type personality. And I mean that in a perfectly serious, non-derogatory manner. ;)
theotherdraxen 09-18-06, 02:20 PM	So um, if I haven't appalled you all yet, can anyone tell me what sort of personality they'd expect a grey elf master swordsman/living artillery piece with a big 'ol pal might have? I'd be obliged! Seeing as I promised to help powergamers out, thanks to all the help you guys gave me over on your board... TheChiliGod has some good ideas here. The 'insufferable jack-ass' is a good approach. Allow me to add to it. If he has a decent charisma, then he'll be good about hiding his racism. Should his wisdom increase, allow the racist tendencies to fade slowly, or they could fade overtime as he comes to accept others. But in the mean time, keep him an ignorant bastard! Hope that helps. BTW: I also came up with some good tips for your history and a rationale for your dragon ally. I'll post it if you like.
efraker 09-19-06, 12:41 AM	Yeah, I'm happy for all the help I can get. =) So, as far as the insufferable jack-ass/hides his racism thing, how about he tries to be complimentary to the other PCs, but comes off as extremely condescending? When one of the human PCs does something amazing, I can say "Haha! Of all the hairless monkeys I've known, you're truly one of the most civilized!" p.s., do I correctly read the implication that the more books you use in your character design, the less roleplay-y it is?
dizfactor 09-19-06, 04:54 AM	Completely arrogant, as the posters above have said, but I think you also want to add in completely alien. Grey elves, correct me if I'm wrong, are the ones with the least contact with the outside world, the ones who are most into the whole "staying inside their forests and looking statuesque as the world outside their borders changes so fast" thing that elves do. This guy is all of that, plus he's insanely powerful, and he probably spends a lot more time dealing with dragons than he does dealing with humans or the like. He doesn't live in their world, at all, not even part time. He doesn't get them. Think Mr. Spock, but with the volume turned up to 11 (or 12, or 13...). He's going to be frosty and remote. Detached, probably bewildered by the rough-and-tumble world of humans and the like. All their messy emotions and their short little fragile grubby lives. They're all so weak and ignorant and childlike, and they and their children and their children's children will be born and grow old and die while he stays untouched. If he's good-aligned, he probably feels a benevolent (if totally condescending) compassion towards them, and will probably try to understand them and maybe guide them with his infinite wisdom. If he's neutral-aligned, he'd probably either curious in a detached way, or totally indifferent. If he's evil, he probably has a seething contempt for them. In any case, he's looking down on them, because, frankly, he is better than them in many ways. He's practically like a god walking among mortals. That's actually a good handle: he's a lot closer to being a god than he is to being a normal mortal, and he probably feels like he just stepped down from Mount Olympus to walk among them. Not in the "worship me!" way, but more in the "king going disguised among his subjects to see how the little people live" sort of way. Keep in mind that he will also probably feel like he can relate more to the dragon than he does to the others in the party. Also, keep in mind that bearing in mind his power level and his longevity, he's just not going to get caught up in the day to day events around him. He's always going to be thinking in the very, very BIG picture. Let's say he's walking with a human and they see two peasants arguing over a piece of livestock. One of them gets angry, pulls out a knife and kills him. The human you're with is going to think "OMG! He just killed that guy over a skinny old cow! They're all so poor! This place is TERRIBLE!!! We need to DO SOMETHING!!!" You, on the other hand are going to think something like "Hmm, still at a subsistence level of agriculture. Food resources are scarce enough to kill people over, but technological development has progressed to the point where even the poorest have some access to decent metal tools. They're still using mud and thatch for their huts, but judging by the number of their young I see lying around, in about three generations they will have expanded enough that their settlement will be bordering on that forest to the north, and they will probably start clearing out the underbrush and undertaking logging operations. They will have enough wood to make wooden shacks, and the proximity to the river will make shipping surplus lumber downstream viable enough to start an industry of it. That ridge over there looks very defensible, too, so someone will likely build some fortifications once the logging money starts coming in. There are small villages both up and downstream of here which will are well-positioned to experience rapid growth, and a prosperous, well-fortified logging community situated on a trade route between two cities will function quite well as a trade stop, and this will most likely be the seat of regional government. Their great-great-great-grandchildren will be wealthy indeed. Pleasant enough, for a quaint little mudhole infested with grubby humans."
theotherdraxen 09-19-06, 04:11 PM	p.s., do I correctly read the implication that the more books you use in your character design, the less roleplay-y it is? IMO: That's the general feel of things. The easiest thing to role-play is one-straight class, as multi-classing implies a change of heart. One class=one character theme. Two classes=two character themes, and so on. That's not to say that you can't have a good backstory for a celestial warforged mindblade-true necromancer-warchief-paladin, but the more you stack from different books (which all have different themes) the harder it becomes to keep it all into one character. Anyway, here's a few tips on how to get this character by your DM and into the group: You should change up the description (and not the actual game mechanics) of how such dragon is formed. Instead of saying that you give your pseudodragon a massive strength, say instead that you acquired a massive dragon familiar that has been shrunk down (by a curse from a being beyond your power to control), and only you know the right ritual to restore him to his original size, for a while at least. This should also quell any arguments about whether he could qualify for War Hulk or not (as his natural form is, technically, larger than large). Early in your past, you met said shrunken dragon, and took him on as your familiar (insert appropriate arcane ritual here). Ever since, you have been struggling to restore the dragon to his original size, hence your specific build. You have spent years studingly intensely for a way to help this creature (if you are not good-aligned, then it is in exchange for it's power and servitude). This dragon has many enemies (most of which should be servants of the powerful being that cursed the dragon in the first place), and as a result, you had to learn to defend yourself, hence why you took up warblade (don't know what a warblade is, but it sounds combat oriented). Because your character is an arrogant bastard, he is probably overconfidant in his abilities. Anytime he feels his ego grow from success (i.e., you get worried that your character and his dragon are looking powerful), he likes to kick back and watch the 'lesser folk' struggle without so much help from him (i.e., you cut back on the mighty dragon action so that your DM doesn't award you cheese points). He shouldn't outright pull himself from the battle, but he should lessen his efforts. Warmage also opens up another side route your character might have taken: he and his dragon ally could have been 'comrades in arms' serving as mercenaries for various armies. That way, your dragon could have really been an artillery piece.
dizfactor 09-19-06, 06:03 PM	IMO: That's the general feel of things. The easiest thing to role-play is one-straight class, as multi-classing implies a change of heart. No, no, no. Not at all. It implies that your character has some experience and training in multiple fields of interest, especially if the character alternates levels instead of taking them in two (or more) blocks. A fighter/rogue doesn't have to be a man-at-arms who suddenly decided to undergo a radical career shift and take up a life of crime. It could very easily be a warrior who also sees the value of cunning, trickery, and the like, and blends the two together. The roleplaying problems really start coming in, though, when you start mixing and matching the more exotic base classes or many if not most prestige classes, ones which are more rare and which imply highly specialized training, which in turn implies affiliation with some organization or faction which can provide such training. To be a duskblade, or a shadowcaster, for example, you have to undergo very rare, specialized training, usually from some kind of special order or secret society or the like. To be a duskblade and a shadowcaster at the same time, you either need to simultaneously be affiliated with two entirely unrelated groups, or you need to find one group that teaches both. In the first case scenario, it's hard to find a reason both groups would trust you, knowing that you've got split loyalties, and they would probably force you to choose before they give you their secrets. In the second case, such an organization probably doesn't exist in most campaign worlds.
Shaggy_Shaggs 09-20-06, 06:19 AM	Or it implies that the character's innate talents are many and varied rather than sharply focused, and as he's repeatedly placed into situations where he's pushed beyond his current limits and forced to improvise, unexpected natural affinities spring to the surface. As they say, pressure is what turns coal into diamonds. I don't really see a non-metagame difference between picking up a new ability from an upper-level class feature, and picking up a new ability via multiclassing (and picking up a new ability via feats, for that matter). Either way you can suddenly do something you couldn't do before. It's not like characters can really tell the difference anyway. I think assembling a whole character from bits and pieces of many different sources is given an unfairly bad rap compared to assembling a whole character from big chunks of one or two sources. Excluding strongly organization-tied classes, classes are entirely metagame artifacts anyway, and having a few or a lot of them shouldn't be able to improve or deteriorate roleplaying. What's the functional difference between a half-farspawn straight fighter with a loud, hot temper, and a changeling barbarian/warshaper/frenzied berserker? One's a tough, screaming, smashing machine with an unstable form, and one's... oh, right. Er, to try to tie this all back together, I think people look at classes as jobs or sets of training entirely too often, and get worked up over piecemeal custom jobs because of it. I believe looking at them more as gradually emerging natural talents would do a lot to smooth things over, and makes plenty of sense in most cases.
theotherdraxen 09-21-06, 04:28 PM	Yeah, I think I made a blanket statement there. If you mulit-class massively, it might be because you happen to play a 'connoisseur' of volitions. Or it might be because you happen to be someone who likes being really good at what they do, and are willing to learn whatever you have to to be the best.
Nyelmoor 10-06-06, 08:37 AM	Sorry for any spelling mistakes. BUT! Wyrm Wizard is a WIZARD ONLY prestige... How do you plan on geting Wyrm Wizard when you dont prepare Arcane spells? Read the Requirements more carefuly. It SPECIFICALY says you have to be able to PREPARE spells not cast them spontaniously.
Nyelmoor 10-06-06, 08:47 AM	If your playing a Wyrm Wizard. Focus on caster Level buffs. Dont try to do everything. Jade Pheonix is nice. but when are you ever gonna jump into combat? The 10th level ability of the Wyrm Wizard is Godly for a Caster. Especialy if you Make a Fortified MagicMissle (7-9th level) to break the SR of the mob your attacking. Secondly. Ioun Stone +1 CL, Greater Spell Penetration +4, Be an Illuman +3 CL from the 3 lost levels of Wyrm Wizard, 4 Levels of Arch Mage +5 CL, Spell Gifted (Unearthed Arcana Trait) +1 CL for one shool. Arcane Mastery (Can always take 10 on CLC's) oh and +2 Spell Enchancer (Spell Compendium) Right there you Have... what? @ lvl 20... 20 caster level 10 take 10 16 9th level Fortified Magic Missle 01 Ioun Stone 04 Greater Spell Pen 05 Arch Mage +01 Spell Gifted 47? Right there YOU will NEVER need to worry about SR. You hit a mob with that then you use your Break Spell Resistance ability and bingobango you have a MOB with no spell resistance for a few Rounds. THATS how you make a Wyrm Wizard. And as for Jade Pheonix... Be a Warmage. and take Learn Martial Manuver Feats. Dont multi class like a joker. be a Damage Power House thats the point of Jade Pheonix.
Shaggy_Shaggs 10-06-06, 09:19 AM	The Arcane Preparation feat allows many spontaneous casters to get into prepared caster PrCs.
Nyelmoor 10-06-06, 09:59 AM	Still. Wyrm Wizard is then only good for a Warmage if you take all 10 levels. and in 10 levels you only get 7 Caster Levels. 1 level of Warblade. 1 level of jade Pheonix? you have lost 5 levels of spell casting to do what? Multi Classing Suxors. Yea you will be ok all around. but then why would you ever group with anyone? at level 20 you have 15 Caster Levels, a Crappy BAB. (You can use Wraith Strike on most monsters if needed) but its only one round and I seriously doupt you will be taking the Feats for a Presistant Wraith Strike Considering it would be a 9th level spell? ALSO, this Is a 3.0 Feat. It was not reprinted for CORE... Altho i think it may be in Forgoten Realms As nice as it would be to learn spells outside of Evocation as a Warmage. You are barred. the only way a warmage learns new spells is Via, Arcane Deciple. and lots of Extra Spell Feats. (Ie, a complete waste of feats, and a high wisdom) Your best bet is to be a Wizard. and for Jade Pheonix. be a spontanious Caster. Unless you are using Spell Point system (Very popular among my DM's)
Shaggy_Shaggs 10-06-06, 10:07 AM	Um, he's playing a gestalt character, he basically takes two classes each level. Having a few levels in one or the other thing doesn't necessarily take up room that would be used for the rest of the levels of another class. And he already said the real power of the character is the cohort. And Arcane Preparation is a 3.5 feat by way of Complete Arcane. Regardless, we're getting off the point of the thread.
Nyelmoor 10-06-06, 10:11 AM	oh, ok. I guess In that case I would Just be a 10th Jade Pheonix / 10th (Warmage/Warblade) Warblades, and Warmages get very Usefull Abilitys. BAB +20 9th level Magic. 18CL (20 if your an Illuman or Practiced Spell Caster) Self Destruct ability. +9d10, +4 to hit. And Medium Armor? Heavy with Battle Caster? (is that what its called) ... Untouchable, Fighter/Caster.
Solnath 10-06-06, 10:53 AM	*cough*Character Development*cough* Seeing as you "didn't" want to make a power-build, I'd go with either what Chilli said about arrogance or then simply making into the biggest wimp ever. Opposites, but both would work. "I-I-I-I don't know... he looks pretty mean, I wouldn't want to **** him off..." "It's a rat fer chrissakes!"
Senevri 10-16-06, 07:57 PM	Well, Jade Phoenix Mages have this whole big huge backstory thing going on, so that pretty much defines the character. Besides that, a flashy magic-using swordsman with exotic "Friends"... Nice.