Realistic Ability Development [Archive] - Wizards Community

Realistic Ability Development [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Gargol
11-24-03, 11:08 AM First, just like rolling your own abilities, roll both your parents abilities. Simply throw 3d6 on every ability score. Don't add any racial bonuses, because these abilities resemple your character's parents without the race. Their racial bonuses will affect you when you choose your race. Also check out the modifiers to each ability. Here's an example:

Father:
Str: 5 (-3)
Dex: 10 (+0)
Con: 10 (+0)
Int: 7 (-2)
Wis: 18 (+4)
Cha: 11 (+0)

Mother:
Str: 13 (+1)
Dex: 14 (+2)
Con: 13 (+1)
Int: 11 (+0)
Wis: 8 (-1)
Cha: 17 (+3)

Then look at your character's parents' abilities and their ability modifiers. Add up the modifiers of each ability of both parents. Here's an example:

Str: -3+1 = -2
Dex: 0+2 = 2
Con: 0+1 = 1
Int: -2+0 = -2
Wis: +4-1 = 3
Cha: 0+3 = 3

Negative numbers that you may get will now change to -1 if they already aren't. Positive numbers will change to +1. Zeros will not change. Here's an example:

Str: -2 = -1
Dex: 2 = +1
Con: 1 = +1
Int: -2 = -1
Wis: 3 = +1
Cha: 3 = +1

Now you got your characters heritage-modifiers from your parents. And so it's time to roll your character's own ability scores. Do so by rolling 3d6 on each ability. Here's an example:

Str: 12
Dex: 7
Con: 16
Int: 14
Wis: 10
Cha: 18
(Wow! That's way over average. Lucky me!)

Now you got your characters base ability scores. Change one ability score with another if you want. Then add your heritage-modifiers to abilities. Here's an example:

Str: 12 - 1 = 11
Dex: 18 + 1 = 19 = 18
Con: 16 +1 = 17
Int: 14 - 1 = 13
Wis: 10 + 1 = 11
Cha: 7 + 1 = 8

Notice that my example character's dexterity score goes over 18 and that's not acceptable. That 1 point is not wasted, because now you have to add 8 points to abilities like in point buy system. This example character gains 1 extra point from over-going ability. Here's an example:

Str: 11 to 14 (3 points)
Dex: 18
Con: 17 to 18 (3 points)
Int: 13 to 14 (1 point [extra])
Wis: 11
Cha: 8 to 10 (2 points)

Next you have to add more bonuses! These bonuses are hidden capabilities from your ancestors. Each ability gets additional 1d2 bonus. If an ability goes over 18 use the same method as before. Here's an example:

Str: 14 + 1 = 15
Dex: 18 + 2 = 18 (2 extra points)
Con: 18 + 1 = 18 (1 extra point)
Int: 14 + 1 = 15
Wis: 11 + 1 = 12
Cha: 10 + 2 = 12

Then add the extra points if you have any:

Str: 15
Dex: 18
Con: 18
Int: 15 + 1 = 16 (2 points [extra])
Wis: 12 + 1 = 13 (1 point [extra])
Cha: 12

So there you go! Now you should have your abilities ready to go on races. This method creates heroic abilities (but rarely as good as in the example).

Method statistics:
- avegare ability: 13,3
- minimum ability 3
- maximum ability 18
Trydan
11-24-03, 12:41 PM That is a really neat idea, Gargol!

I think I might give it a try in a future campaign, where one of the players is going to play the daughter of one of her former characters.
I don't see the point of the extra 1d2. Is that just to boost the stats or to balance them?
Rather than this additional 1d2, wouldn't it be better to roll the stats based on the normal 4d6 (discarding the lowest)?
If the total modifiers of the parents is zero, say both parents had Str=10, then I presume there is no subsequent modifier?
If a stat goes over 18 due to the parental bonus, are you saying that you get an additional 8 points, so spend as per the point buy system?
I guess it is possible (albeit unlikely) for the stats to go below 3. What happens in this situation?
I'm looking forward to discussion on this. Once again, nice idea!
Gargol
11-24-03, 01:12 PM Yes, an additional 1d2 is a balancer indeed. It pushes up all abilities so they could be at average 13,3.

The additional 1d2 also makes possible to not get an ability of score 3. If your characters ability is 3 and heritage-modifier lowers it to 2, the additional 1d2 raises it at least to 3.

If the total modifiers of the parents is zero there is no subsequent modifier. That's right.

If an ability ever goes over 18 you get 1 additional point to use like in point-buy system.

Thanks for your questions and I hope that I clarified this system somehow. :)
Ornum
11-24-03, 07:58 PM I like it, as it is probably the best system that I've seen that deals with heredity, but I would think that with every positive there should be the possibility of a negative. If there is the possibility of a inherent bonus that comes from grandparents, than couldn't a penalty also be feasible? For example, I recieved my physical build (strength and dexterity for game puposes) from my grandfather (I would assume, since he and I are of the same height and weight, roughly). I am taller and thinner than either my mother or my father and phsically weaker than both of them as well.

Just a possibililty that I thought that I would give, although adding it could make the system way more complex than it should be.
Trydan
11-25-03, 02:26 AM Originally posted by Gargol
Yes, an additional 1d2 is a balancer indeed. It pushes up all abilities so they could be at average 13,3.

Okay, so then this is match the "average" ability score of a point buy that is higher than 25 points then.

Does anybody know which point buy would give that average? (Hmm... calculating point-buy averages looks really tricky, as it is not very random!)
Gargol
11-25-03, 08:55 AM Ok, here's rules for gaining similar abilities as your grandfather or grandmother have:

Depending on your character's gender you get abilities from your grandfathers, if you are a male, OR from your grandmothers, if you are a female.

Roll abilities for each person: father and both grandfathers (if you are a male). Then count the sum of all modifiers to each person. Here's an example:

Father
Str 8 (-1)
Dex 8 (-1)
Con 11 (+0)
Int 9 (-1)
Wis 13 (+1)
Cha 17 (+3)
Sum of all modifiers: -1-1+0-1+1+3 = +1

Grandfather from father's side
Str: 10
Dex: 9
Con: 14
Int: 9
Wis: 8
Cha: 12
SoAM: 0-1+2-1-1+1 = 0

Grandfather from mother's side (Let's think that this guy is a former hero!)
Str: 16
Dex: 11
Con: 14
Int: 13
Wis: 12
Cha: 15
SoAM: 3+0+2+1+1+2 = +9

Now let's look at the SoAM and we can directly see which of them is the best. The person who got the biggest SoAM is genetically strong and his abilities easily inherent to other generations. But because he's so far away from the PC, it's only a little chance that he will have his abilities passed to the PC. Now we have to roll if the bonuses of this hero will pass on. These are the modifiers to 1d6 roll:

Actual father: +3
Grandfather from father's side: +0
Grandfather from mother's side: -1
Biggest SoAM: +2

Now roll and add the modifiers:

Father: 3 + 3 = 6
Grandfather from father's side: 1 + 0 = 1
Hero from mother's side: 6 - 1 + 2 = 7

The hero-grandfather got the highest number so he wins! Now you can use he's abilities to create your character instead your real father's.

And Trydan, its so hard to compare the point-buy system with this or solve the actual average of the pb system. But I think that (not yet tried) if you chance the additional 1d2 to only 1 and when you can buy points buy only with 4 points you should get same kind of abilities as in 25 point buy. But if you want to make same powerful characters as in my original system use approx. 32 point buy.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gargol 11-24-03, 11:08 AM	First, just like rolling your own abilities, roll both your parents abilities. Simply throw 3d6 on every ability score. Don't add any racial bonuses, because these abilities resemple your character's parents without the race. Their racial bonuses will affect you when you choose your race. Also check out the modifiers to each ability. Here's an example: Father: Str: 5 (-3) Dex: 10 (+0) Con: 10 (+0) Int: 7 (-2) Wis: 18 (+4) Cha: 11 (+0) Mother: Str: 13 (+1) Dex: 14 (+2) Con: 13 (+1) Int: 11 (+0) Wis: 8 (-1) Cha: 17 (+3) Then look at your character's parents' abilities and their ability modifiers. Add up the modifiers of each ability of both parents. Here's an example: Str: -3+1 = -2 Dex: 0+2 = 2 Con: 0+1 = 1 Int: -2+0 = -2 Wis: +4-1 = 3 Cha: 0+3 = 3 Negative numbers that you may get will now change to -1 if they already aren't. Positive numbers will change to +1. Zeros will not change. Here's an example: Str: -2 = -1 Dex: 2 = +1 Con: 1 = +1 Int: -2 = -1 Wis: 3 = +1 Cha: 3 = +1 Now you got your characters heritage-modifiers from your parents. And so it's time to roll your character's own ability scores. Do so by rolling 3d6 on each ability. Here's an example: Str: 12 Dex: 7 Con: 16 Int: 14 Wis: 10 Cha: 18 (Wow! That's way over average. Lucky me!) Now you got your characters base ability scores. Change one ability score with another if you want. Then add your heritage-modifiers to abilities. Here's an example: Str: 12 - 1 = 11 Dex: 18 + 1 = 19 = 18 Con: 16 +1 = 17 Int: 14 - 1 = 13 Wis: 10 + 1 = 11 Cha: 7 + 1 = 8 Notice that my example character's dexterity score goes over 18 and that's not acceptable. That 1 point is not wasted, because now you have to add 8 points to abilities like in point buy system. This example character gains 1 extra point from over-going ability. Here's an example: Str: 11 to 14 (3 points) Dex: 18 Con: 17 to 18 (3 points) Int: 13 to 14 (1 point [extra]) Wis: 11 Cha: 8 to 10 (2 points) Next you have to add more bonuses! These bonuses are hidden capabilities from your ancestors. Each ability gets additional 1d2 bonus. If an ability goes over 18 use the same method as before. Here's an example: Str: 14 + 1 = 15 Dex: 18 + 2 = 18 (2 extra points) Con: 18 + 1 = 18 (1 extra point) Int: 14 + 1 = 15 Wis: 11 + 1 = 12 Cha: 10 + 2 = 12 Then add the extra points if you have any: Str: 15 Dex: 18 Con: 18 Int: 15 + 1 = 16 (2 points [extra]) Wis: 12 + 1 = 13 (1 point [extra]) Cha: 12 So there you go! Now you should have your abilities ready to go on races. This method creates heroic abilities (but rarely as good as in the example). Method statistics: - avegare ability: 13,3 - minimum ability 3 - maximum ability 18
Trydan 11-24-03, 12:41 PM	That is a really neat idea, Gargol! I think I might give it a try in a future campaign, where one of the players is going to play the daughter of one of her former characters. I don't see the point of the extra 1d2. Is that just to boost the stats or to balance them? Rather than this additional 1d2, wouldn't it be better to roll the stats based on the normal 4d6 (discarding the lowest)? If the total modifiers of the parents is zero, say both parents had Str=10, then I presume there is no subsequent modifier? If a stat goes over 18 due to the parental bonus, are you saying that you get an additional 8 points, so spend as per the point buy system? I guess it is possible (albeit unlikely) for the stats to go below 3. What happens in this situation? I'm looking forward to discussion on this. Once again, nice idea!
Gargol 11-24-03, 01:12 PM	Yes, an additional 1d2 is a balancer indeed. It pushes up all abilities so they could be at average 13,3. The additional 1d2 also makes possible to not get an ability of score 3. If your characters ability is 3 and heritage-modifier lowers it to 2, the additional 1d2 raises it at least to 3. If the total modifiers of the parents is zero there is no subsequent modifier. That's right. If an ability ever goes over 18 you get 1 additional point to use like in point-buy system. Thanks for your questions and I hope that I clarified this system somehow. :)
Ornum 11-24-03, 07:58 PM	I like it, as it is probably the best system that I've seen that deals with heredity, but I would think that with every positive there should be the possibility of a negative. If there is the possibility of a inherent bonus that comes from grandparents, than couldn't a penalty also be feasible? For example, I recieved my physical build (strength and dexterity for game puposes) from my grandfather (I would assume, since he and I are of the same height and weight, roughly). I am taller and thinner than either my mother or my father and phsically weaker than both of them as well. Just a possibililty that I thought that I would give, although adding it could make the system way more complex than it should be.
Trydan 11-25-03, 02:26 AM	Originally posted by Gargol Yes, an additional 1d2 is a balancer indeed. It pushes up all abilities so they could be at average 13,3. Okay, so then this is match the "average" ability score of a point buy that is higher than 25 points then. Does anybody know which point buy would give that average? (Hmm... calculating point-buy averages looks really tricky, as it is not very random!)
Gargol 11-25-03, 08:55 AM	Ok, here's rules for gaining similar abilities as your grandfather or grandmother have: Depending on your character's gender you get abilities from your grandfathers, if you are a male, OR from your grandmothers, if you are a female. Roll abilities for each person: father and both grandfathers (if you are a male). Then count the sum of all modifiers to each person. Here's an example: Father Str 8 (-1) Dex 8 (-1) Con 11 (+0) Int 9 (-1) Wis 13 (+1) Cha 17 (+3) Sum of all modifiers: -1-1+0-1+1+3 = +1 Grandfather from father's side Str: 10 Dex: 9 Con: 14 Int: 9 Wis: 8 Cha: 12 SoAM: 0-1+2-1-1+1 = 0 Grandfather from mother's side (Let's think that this guy is a former hero!) Str: 16 Dex: 11 Con: 14 Int: 13 Wis: 12 Cha: 15 SoAM: 3+0+2+1+1+2 = +9 Now let's look at the SoAM and we can directly see which of them is the best. The person who got the biggest SoAM is genetically strong and his abilities easily inherent to other generations. But because he's so far away from the PC, it's only a little chance that he will have his abilities passed to the PC. Now we have to roll if the bonuses of this hero will pass on. These are the modifiers to 1d6 roll: Actual father: +3 Grandfather from father's side: +0 Grandfather from mother's side: -1 Biggest SoAM: +2 Now roll and add the modifiers: Father: 3 + 3 = 6 Grandfather from father's side: 1 + 0 = 1 Hero from mother's side: 6 - 1 + 2 = 7 The hero-grandfather got the highest number so he wins! Now you can use he's abilities to create your character instead your real father's. And Trydan, its so hard to compare the point-buy system with this or solve the actual average of the pb system. But I think that (not yet tried) if you chance the additional 1d2 to only 1 and when you can buy points buy only with 4 points you should get same kind of abilities as in 25 point buy. But if you want to make same powerful characters as in my original system use approx. 32 point buy.