Redeemed Blackguard? Please Help flesh this out. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Redeemed Blackguard? Please Help flesh this out. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
serrasin
07-26-05, 05:36 PM The basic idea is that a Blackguard has a momentary urge to help random innocent. By acting on this urge, said blackguard losed the dark blessing of her patron and is put to death. No longer having a patron deity and having a rap sheet a mile long the soul ends up in the nine hells.

Diety A (Lathandar for example) thinks that our former blackguard would make a fine example of redemption and strikes a bargain or bet with the lord of that layer of Hell in order for the soul to be allowed to leave. This allows her to pursue redemption. If however she willingly commits an act of evil then the pact is broken and [insert bad thing] happens. A clause in the arrangment also states that the soul cannot know the full extent of her previous deeds, so her memory is wiped. When she dies her actions in each life will be weighed against the other to determine where she goes in the afterlife (Celestial Heavens or Hells).

Now our former blackguard is a Paladin of Diety A.

The question is, how much knowledge of her previous life would be apropriate? Would it make sense that over time her memories slowly return (possibly tempting her to evil)?

Also, do you have any suggestions for a possible cost of failure? It definately needs to be something that would cause a Demon Lord to agree to such a bargain. I was thinking that the Blackguard's/Paladin's soul would become property of said Demon Lord? The problem is that this really just brings the character full circle again, and the Demon would really have nothing to gain from this :confused: .

Thanks for any feedback or ideas.
Pyritefoolsgold
07-26-05, 06:11 PM "You see, demon, I want this soul."
"Why. why do you want this stupid fool? He has nothing, no power, no glory, not even a body. What would you want with him?"
"well, demon, let me make you a deal, a bet really..."
"I like bets..."
"I'm sure you do. well, here it is. I bring this soul back to the material plane, and he works for me. So long as he does no evil, he will join me in the heavens after he dies, but if he ever knowingly does evil, then he is yours."
"A fallen paladin?"
"Yes. his soul will take an oath to serve you if he fails me. And then you will have a blackguard servant to walk the material plain and do your bidding."
"I will take your bet, god."
"I accept."
"You are a foolish one, you know? I KNOW this one. He will be MINE.
"We will see..."
serrasin
07-26-05, 10:33 PM "You see, demon, I want this soul."
"Why. why do you want this stupid fool? He has nothing, no power, no glory, not even a body. What would you want with him?"
"well, demon, let me make you a deal, a bet really..."
"I like bets..."
"I'm sure you do. well, here it is. I bring this soul back to the material plane, and he works for me. So long as he does no evil, he will join me in the heavens after he dies, but if he ever knowingly does evil, then he is yours."
"A fallen paladin?"
"Yes. his soul will take an oath to serve you if he fails me. And then you will have a blackguard servant to walk the material plain and do your bidding."
"I will take your bet, god."
"I accept."
"You are a foolish one, you know? I KNOW this one. He will be MINE.
"We will see..."
Yea thats pretty much what I had in mind. Though put into a much more amusing spin :D .

Now I just cant decided which would be more amusing. To let the character have the memories of his previous life and lament on them, or to slow regain the memories and let the GM have some creative freedom. Has anyone done anything like this. Would love to draw on some experiences.
Starchaserva
07-27-05, 12:26 AM The redeemed blackguard should remember enough about his past life that he feels a strange sense of guilt whenever faced with an injust act. Perhaps he could witness an event in life (like the murder of an innocent in a particular fashion) that echoes somethign he himself did, or some other kind of scene that strikes a chord in his mind. Maybe he has horrible dreams to remind himself about past deeds.
serrasin
07-27-05, 12:29 AM kind of like trying to recall a dream you had last week? or Deja-Vu?
Starchaserva
07-27-05, 09:41 AM Exactly. He can remembers bits and pieces of something, but not enough to for him to form a coherent story, just like can happen with dreams. For example, he could have flashes of hell and the Demon lord, but not be able to explain why, this could be the Demon messing with him. Deja Vu about places can work as well.
DNA
07-27-05, 11:34 PM How about this:

The Paladin awakes one day, sick in bed in some shack in the woods. He remembers that he is a sworn Paladin of Diety A, and he remembers vague sketches of a false life (raised on a farm, entered the Order as a teen, whatever). But everything recent is a blur.

It turns out that he's in the house of a woodsman, about middle-aged. The hermit tells him he caught some terrible sickness and is just now recovering, and that he must have lost much of his memory in his fever. The woodsman saw him stumbling down the path through the woods, too sick to reach the village for treatment.

Once he's better, the woodsman asks to go along with the Paladin on his adventures. It turns out the woodsman has aspirations of being a great bard, and he wants to chronicle the heroic journey of this Paladin.

Of course, the DM knows that this guy isn't just a wannabe bard. He's an angel in disguise, sent to test and prepare the Paladin. Throughout their journeys, the bard tells campfire stories of a great villain and the atrocities he committed - but the bard puts a strange twist on it, making the villain into almost a tragic antihero. The Paladin doesn't have any real recognition of these stories, but he feels a definite sympathy for this villain (who is, of course, him in his past life).

The culmination of the plotline is when the bard/angel lays the cards on the table and tells him that HE is the reincarnation of this villain, and that he must take responsibility and suffer for that man's actions. It is then that the veil is lifted and the Paladin regains his memories. But of course, now he has two perspectives on himself: his own first-person memories, and the man whose dark and tragic tale held him rapt in the bard's tales. It is up to him to decide how to reconcile those viewpoints.

Why would a devil lord agree to this bargain? Perhaps that one good act of the Blackguard was enough to save him from the deepest pits of Hell, and the devil lord believes that the guy will spurn a second chance and dig himself into even deeper sinfulness. Or perhaps it's a more idealistic wager: maybe the devil wants to prove the true allure of evil, kind of like the Biblical book of Job reversed. Maybe an angel bet the Devil that with enough love and compassion and so on, he could turn even such a dedicated disciple of evil to the side of good.

The downside to this approach is that you're stuck with an unkillable low-level bard NPC.
Morka
07-28-05, 11:28 AM It would make a wonderful paladin of Ilmater. "I suffer this life because I commited evil actions in my past life."
Need_A_Life
07-28-05, 01:13 PM The story of Job went something like this: The god and the devil made a bet that if god took all the riches and blessings of Job, a faithful christian and rich landowner, Job would curse gods name and be entirely and thoroughly ****** at him. God made him lose his family, his money and his house but Job remained faithful and the devil lost the bet.

Change that to being a servant of evil whom the forces of good made a bet about, that if his memory was wiped and he got a fresh start he would become the eptiome of good, the forces of evil agreed and the blackguard woke up in the forest one morning with a foggy memory. Everytime he tries to remember the past he finds the few memories he has left retracts so he can make no conscious attempts at remembering how he got to be in this situation. At one point he will be confronted by two powerful beings (1 balor and 1 Solar, for example) and his entire memory will be revealed and he breaks down in tears, totally in despair.
serrasin
07-28-05, 02:52 PM wow some great ideas and feedback. Thankyou all. The character is to be introduce this weekend so after I talk with the GM/ST for story integration I will post how it turns out ^_^. I really think that this will be a fun character to play.
Knights_Disciple
07-28-05, 05:26 PM This is a great concept. I love it.
I think the idea of having flashes come in the form of dreams or nightmares is a good way to play it.
Also, just a note to Need_A_Life:
...Job, a faithful christian and rich landowner...
Just a quick note: Job was not actually a Christian, as the setting of Job took place well before the time of Christ. In fact, some believe it to be the oldest book written in the Bible. Just a random nitpicky correction of someone who reads and follows that Book. No harm meant dude. ;)
Need_A_Life
07-31-05, 09:45 AM Just a quick note: Job was not actually a Christian, as the setting of Job took place well before the time of Christ. In fact, some believe it to be the oldest book written in the Bible. Just a random nitpicky correction of someone who reads and follows that Book. No harm meant dude. ;)
I knew that... just thought that it didn't matter. The difference is the same only the color has a different sound.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
serrasin 07-26-05, 05:36 PM	The basic idea is that a Blackguard has a momentary urge to help random innocent. By acting on this urge, said blackguard losed the dark blessing of her patron and is put to death. No longer having a patron deity and having a rap sheet a mile long the soul ends up in the nine hells. Diety A (Lathandar for example) thinks that our former blackguard would make a fine example of redemption and strikes a bargain or bet with the lord of that layer of Hell in order for the soul to be allowed to leave. This allows her to pursue redemption. If however she willingly commits an act of evil then the pact is broken and [insert bad thing] happens. A clause in the arrangment also states that the soul cannot know the full extent of her previous deeds, so her memory is wiped. When she dies her actions in each life will be weighed against the other to determine where she goes in the afterlife (Celestial Heavens or Hells). Now our former blackguard is a Paladin of Diety A. The question is, how much knowledge of her previous life would be apropriate? Would it make sense that over time her memories slowly return (possibly tempting her to evil)? Also, do you have any suggestions for a possible cost of failure? It definately needs to be something that would cause a Demon Lord to agree to such a bargain. I was thinking that the Blackguard's/Paladin's soul would become property of said Demon Lord? The problem is that this really just brings the character full circle again, and the Demon would really have nothing to gain from this :confused: . Thanks for any feedback or ideas.
Pyritefoolsgold 07-26-05, 06:11 PM	"You see, demon, I want this soul." "Why. why do you want this stupid fool? He has nothing, no power, no glory, not even a body. What would you want with him?" "well, demon, let me make you a deal, a bet really..." "I like bets..." "I'm sure you do. well, here it is. I bring this soul back to the material plane, and he works for me. So long as he does no evil, he will join me in the heavens after he dies, but if he ever knowingly does evil, then he is yours." "A fallen paladin?" "Yes. his soul will take an oath to serve you if he fails me. And then you will have a blackguard servant to walk the material plain and do your bidding." "I will take your bet, god." "I accept." "You are a foolish one, you know? I KNOW this one. He will be MINE. "We will see..."
serrasin 07-26-05, 10:33 PM	"You see, demon, I want this soul." "Why. why do you want this stupid fool? He has nothing, no power, no glory, not even a body. What would you want with him?" "well, demon, let me make you a deal, a bet really..." "I like bets..." "I'm sure you do. well, here it is. I bring this soul back to the material plane, and he works for me. So long as he does no evil, he will join me in the heavens after he dies, but if he ever knowingly does evil, then he is yours." "A fallen paladin?" "Yes. his soul will take an oath to serve you if he fails me. And then you will have a blackguard servant to walk the material plain and do your bidding." "I will take your bet, god." "I accept." "You are a foolish one, you know? I KNOW this one. He will be MINE. "We will see..." Yea thats pretty much what I had in mind. Though put into a much more amusing spin :D . Now I just cant decided which would be more amusing. To let the character have the memories of his previous life and lament on them, or to slow regain the memories and let the GM have some creative freedom. Has anyone done anything like this. Would love to draw on some experiences.
Starchaserva 07-27-05, 12:26 AM	The redeemed blackguard should remember enough about his past life that he feels a strange sense of guilt whenever faced with an injust act. Perhaps he could witness an event in life (like the murder of an innocent in a particular fashion) that echoes somethign he himself did, or some other kind of scene that strikes a chord in his mind. Maybe he has horrible dreams to remind himself about past deeds.
serrasin 07-27-05, 12:29 AM	kind of like trying to recall a dream you had last week? or Deja-Vu?
Starchaserva 07-27-05, 09:41 AM	Exactly. He can remembers bits and pieces of something, but not enough to for him to form a coherent story, just like can happen with dreams. For example, he could have flashes of hell and the Demon lord, but not be able to explain why, this could be the Demon messing with him. Deja Vu about places can work as well.
DNA 07-27-05, 11:34 PM	How about this: The Paladin awakes one day, sick in bed in some shack in the woods. He remembers that he is a sworn Paladin of Diety A, and he remembers vague sketches of a false life (raised on a farm, entered the Order as a teen, whatever). But everything recent is a blur. It turns out that he's in the house of a woodsman, about middle-aged. The hermit tells him he caught some terrible sickness and is just now recovering, and that he must have lost much of his memory in his fever. The woodsman saw him stumbling down the path through the woods, too sick to reach the village for treatment. Once he's better, the woodsman asks to go along with the Paladin on his adventures. It turns out the woodsman has aspirations of being a great bard, and he wants to chronicle the heroic journey of this Paladin. Of course, the DM knows that this guy isn't just a wannabe bard. He's an angel in disguise, sent to test and prepare the Paladin. Throughout their journeys, the bard tells campfire stories of a great villain and the atrocities he committed - but the bard puts a strange twist on it, making the villain into almost a tragic antihero. The Paladin doesn't have any real recognition of these stories, but he feels a definite sympathy for this villain (who is, of course, him in his past life). The culmination of the plotline is when the bard/angel lays the cards on the table and tells him that HE is the reincarnation of this villain, and that he must take responsibility and suffer for that man's actions. It is then that the veil is lifted and the Paladin regains his memories. But of course, now he has two perspectives on himself: his own first-person memories, and the man whose dark and tragic tale held him rapt in the bard's tales. It is up to him to decide how to reconcile those viewpoints. Why would a devil lord agree to this bargain? Perhaps that one good act of the Blackguard was enough to save him from the deepest pits of Hell, and the devil lord believes that the guy will spurn a second chance and dig himself into even deeper sinfulness. Or perhaps it's a more idealistic wager: maybe the devil wants to prove the true allure of evil, kind of like the Biblical book of Job reversed. Maybe an angel bet the Devil that with enough love and compassion and so on, he could turn even such a dedicated disciple of evil to the side of good. The downside to this approach is that you're stuck with an unkillable low-level bard NPC.
Morka 07-28-05, 11:28 AM	It would make a wonderful paladin of Ilmater. "I suffer this life because I commited evil actions in my past life."
Need_A_Life 07-28-05, 01:13 PM	The story of Job went something like this: The god and the devil made a bet that if god took all the riches and blessings of Job, a faithful christian and rich landowner, Job would curse gods name and be entirely and thoroughly ****** at him. God made him lose his family, his money and his house but Job remained faithful and the devil lost the bet. Change that to being a servant of evil whom the forces of good made a bet about, that if his memory was wiped and he got a fresh start he would become the eptiome of good, the forces of evil agreed and the blackguard woke up in the forest one morning with a foggy memory. Everytime he tries to remember the past he finds the few memories he has left retracts so he can make no conscious attempts at remembering how he got to be in this situation. At one point he will be confronted by two powerful beings (1 balor and 1 Solar, for example) and his entire memory will be revealed and he breaks down in tears, totally in despair.
serrasin 07-28-05, 02:52 PM	wow some great ideas and feedback. Thankyou all. The character is to be introduce this weekend so after I talk with the GM/ST for story integration I will post how it turns out ^_^. I really think that this will be a fun character to play.
Knights_Disciple 07-28-05, 05:26 PM	This is a great concept. I love it. I think the idea of having flashes come in the form of dreams or nightmares is a good way to play it. Also, just a note to Need_A_Life: ...Job, a faithful christian and rich landowner... Just a quick note: Job was not actually a Christian, as the setting of Job took place well before the time of Christ. In fact, some believe it to be the oldest book written in the Bible. Just a random nitpicky correction of someone who reads and follows that Book. No harm meant dude. ;)
Need_A_Life 07-31-05, 09:45 AM	Just a quick note: Job was not actually a Christian, as the setting of Job took place well before the time of Christ. In fact, some believe it to be the oldest book written in the Bible. Just a random nitpicky correction of someone who reads and follows that Book. No harm meant dude. ;) I knew that... just thought that it didn't matter. The difference is the same only the color has a different sound.