Roleplaying the Brute out of Stereotype [Archive] - Wizards Community

Roleplaying the Brute out of Stereotype [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
JungeonJeff
01-06-06, 02:41 PM Hi, I'm a long time reader, only starting to post recently. I'll start out with apologising for my bad spelling, english isnt my first language...

Anyways, to my subject:

Im meeting a new group on monday (got in contact through the gm, who's a freind of mine), and as the "new guy" (been playing for a number of years thou) I want to make the right, and hopefully a good, impression.
The group is consisting of six players (i know, big party), three of which is playing char's from the same tribe, by tribe meaning same, not-so-evolved town (To my knowledge, the reason for this, is that the group normally has a hard time deciding what to do, and giving half the team a sort of "common goal", will progress things.). The last three is random chars (Dwarfen Fighter, Gnome Wizard, and an unknown).

Enough background. I will be playing the first Human on the team (believe it or not...), and will be starting on 2nd. lvl. My concept was, in the long run, making a dragon disciple (DMG's). Do to the fact that it isnt a high-tech group, I have come to choose a Bard/Barbarian. A shaman of sorts, speaking the word of The Great White Serpent, the god of winter and the hunt. I am not changing the lvl's, as I think it fits the char very well (The Barbarian lvl symbolising his tribal-background, and the Bard lvl representing his preaching (sp:Oratoric?!) skills)

My problem is, due to the attribute pts system the group is using, ther is a good chance I will be able to gain fairly good overall stats (the system also allows you to have ridiculous high score in 1 or 2, and very low in the rest), so appearance wise, and also due to his tribal background, he will look... well.... barbarian like! But I would like him to actually have a better Int and Cha bonus than any of the physical stats, as I would much rather play a smart char, than a thug...!

So my question to you all are, how do you, in general get past appearance? Although my char does look more or less like a brute, hes actually a smart, and diplomatic person. Sure, rolling Diplomacy/Bluff/GatherInfo checks will game mechanics wise show it, but I would much rather roleplay his way out of the stereotype...

Any suggestions will be apprecialted :)
WhrenKehrsyn
01-06-06, 03:26 PM Well, a good portion of influential people in real world history can hardly be descibed as attractive. For the most part the way you speak will be your thing. If youd like to roleplay it out I suggest you practice with flowery and powerful speeches yourself. Take a good look at speeches real world leaders like Churchill have made.

Basically youll want the everyman to be able to identify with what youre saying but youll also want to come off as sure of yourself and confident.

Mechanics wise load up on diplomacy, sense motive, gather info, and even bluff and intimidate.
Rudysseus
01-06-06, 09:21 PM you could also roleplay the character as being unattractive or whatever, and having others view him as perhaps being dumb or just another "brute" as you put it. but he actually ENJOYS that, because it makes everyone underestimate his intelligence, giving him a bit of an edge over them, because this supposedly "dumb barbarian" couldnt POSSIBLY be intelligent, and then you speak and they quickly see how wrong they are.

just a suggestion, take it for whatever its worth.
Thubby
01-07-06, 01:54 PM wear BARD cloths, their light, elagent, and festive, it makes you seem pleasant(which you probably are as a bard) and makes people think about what they see "a barbarian in good cloths... hmmm." DONT USE INTIMIDATE!!! that skill will put you at square 1. and dont get easily provoked, and use big words.
SoulGamit
01-07-06, 03:21 PM First, a misconception I feel the need to clear up: High charisma does not = beuty in any way, shape, or form. The ghost's horrid appearence ability's DC is based off of charisma for pete's sake. Charisma is force of personality, people with high charisma are easy to like, great leaders, good manipulators and they know people, street wise might be a good example for charisma (although being street wise would be a combination of wis and cha).

Now, playing out a steriotype... is easier then it seems. It's best done by doing nothing at all, I mean that literally. Don't speak unless you need to, and make what you say profound. Don't use big words all the time when you don't need to, that's not the sign of an intelligent person that's usually the sign of a conceted one. Keep in mind he is keading and dealing with barbarians, so he will have some of the steriotype (which would mostly be reflected in his beliefs and appearance). However, he should be able to understand big words and the more "modern" ways and handle himself in polite society, at least as far as his appearance will allow.

There is another angle that you could play, namely that he isn't really a barbarian per say, but he just commands the stupid barbarians because he's smarter then them and claims to have god-like powers or some connection to their god. You could tone your intelligence down around the people of your tribe and behind their backs act all formal and stuff. Keep in mind that this may **** off the other player's characters if they find out.

You may want to take half-dragon paragon after DD levels to further your connection to the dragon, if UA is allowed.

Oh, one more thing, if, as a Dragon Disciple, you feel the power slipping from you and everyone on the team starts to surpass you, talk to your DM about having the unnamed stat bonuses gained from the class stack with the template gained from Dragon Apothosis. It's not that over-powering and RAW, that's how it works. While it wasn't really intended to be that way, it isn't that big of a deal considering the dragon disciple's low power level.
Morka
01-10-06, 03:12 PM That reminds me Mel Gibson in Braveheart. William Wallace, his character, is a Scot raised by his travelling uncle, and he learned many things. Once adult, he decided he wanted to live a peaceful life and cultivate the earth*. For reason explained in the movie, he ended up leading the Scot rebellion against the Britons. When the king's daughter-in-law is sent to negociate with him, she is utterly surprised when she realise the barbarian understand what she say in latin...

*cultivate the earth. Sorry, I don't want to hyjack the thread to another subject, but as I was typing this, I realised it was perhaps a metaphore. Perhaps did that mean that William Wallace, a cultivate man, just wanted to make the illiterate scots more cultivate?
ConfoundedReptile
01-17-06, 09:00 PM Well really, the whole Barbarian concept is a bit of a racist imperialist stereotype to begin with. The Greeks dubbed foreigners "barbaros" since they thought their language sounded like they were saying "bar bar bar." The word was adopted by the imperialists who followed them (the romans, the germans, spanish, british, americans, etc). The Japanese considered the Portuguese and British barbarians as well because of their poor bathing habits, and less cultivated culture at the time. So really, a barbarian is what outsiders label them.

In the game though, the idea is it's an uncivilized culture; not inferior necessarily, but definitely less refined. In game terms, it's also considered less intellectual bc of its lack of a formal written language. It could be based off of Roman barbarians: the goths, vandals, huns, celts, etc; Medieval barbarians: moors, vikings, scottish; Colonial barbarians: iroquois, ashanti, tuareg, aztecs, etc. So really, it's more likely for a barbarian to be intelligent than not; just with a different skillset.

This could be applied in the game by someone who was a brilliant strategist. Crazy Horse lured Custer to ride out against what he thought was a small band of native americans, instead of waiting for reinforcements, straight into a deep valley where his company was surrounded and slaughtered. Stealth and ambush are an important part of barbarian warfare; and tradition, folklore and ritual replace academics, science and formal religion.

The leaders of barbarian cultures, like all other cultures, will usually be those who are persuasive and that speak to the people. Napolean was short, Hitler was unstable and paranoid, Churchill fat, Stalin had a giant mustache, etc. Without starting a political argument, I'd like to say as an example that George Bush is very charismatic because people think they can relate to him; feel that he understands them. No one really thinks he speaks especially well or has an overpowering intellect. But he has a rapport with the common people, combined with brilliant political strategy and effective propaganda. Charisma is far more than beauty, or even persuasive speaking; it's the ability to understand your audience and tell them what they want to hear and somehow convince them to trust you. And you can accomplish that by capitalizing on their pride, pity, traditions, fear, anger, patriotism, etc.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
JungeonJeff 01-06-06, 02:41 PM	Hi, I'm a long time reader, only starting to post recently. I'll start out with apologising for my bad spelling, english isnt my first language... Anyways, to my subject: Im meeting a new group on monday (got in contact through the gm, who's a freind of mine), and as the "new guy" (been playing for a number of years thou) I want to make the right, and hopefully a good, impression. The group is consisting of six players (i know, big party), three of which is playing char's from the same tribe, by tribe meaning same, not-so-evolved town (To my knowledge, the reason for this, is that the group normally has a hard time deciding what to do, and giving half the team a sort of "common goal", will progress things.). The last three is random chars (Dwarfen Fighter, Gnome Wizard, and an unknown). Enough background. I will be playing the first Human on the team (believe it or not...), and will be starting on 2nd. lvl. My concept was, in the long run, making a dragon disciple (DMG's). Do to the fact that it isnt a high-tech group, I have come to choose a Bard/Barbarian. A shaman of sorts, speaking the word of The Great White Serpent, the god of winter and the hunt. I am not changing the lvl's, as I think it fits the char very well (The Barbarian lvl symbolising his tribal-background, and the Bard lvl representing his preaching (sp:Oratoric?!) skills) My problem is, due to the attribute pts system the group is using, ther is a good chance I will be able to gain fairly good overall stats (the system also allows you to have ridiculous high score in 1 or 2, and very low in the rest), so appearance wise, and also due to his tribal background, he will look... well.... barbarian like! But I would like him to actually have a better Int and Cha bonus than any of the physical stats, as I would much rather play a smart char, than a thug...! So my question to you all are, how do you, in general get past appearance? Although my char does look more or less like a brute, hes actually a smart, and diplomatic person. Sure, rolling Diplomacy/Bluff/GatherInfo checks will game mechanics wise show it, but I would much rather roleplay his way out of the stereotype... Any suggestions will be apprecialted :)
WhrenKehrsyn 01-06-06, 03:26 PM	Well, a good portion of influential people in real world history can hardly be descibed as attractive. For the most part the way you speak will be your thing. If youd like to roleplay it out I suggest you practice with flowery and powerful speeches yourself. Take a good look at speeches real world leaders like Churchill have made. Basically youll want the everyman to be able to identify with what youre saying but youll also want to come off as sure of yourself and confident. Mechanics wise load up on diplomacy, sense motive, gather info, and even bluff and intimidate.
Rudysseus 01-06-06, 09:21 PM	you could also roleplay the character as being unattractive or whatever, and having others view him as perhaps being dumb or just another "brute" as you put it. but he actually ENJOYS that, because it makes everyone underestimate his intelligence, giving him a bit of an edge over them, because this supposedly "dumb barbarian" couldnt POSSIBLY be intelligent, and then you speak and they quickly see how wrong they are. just a suggestion, take it for whatever its worth.
Thubby 01-07-06, 01:54 PM	wear BARD cloths, their light, elagent, and festive, it makes you seem pleasant(which you probably are as a bard) and makes people think about what they see "a barbarian in good cloths... hmmm." DONT USE INTIMIDATE!!! that skill will put you at square 1. and dont get easily provoked, and use big words.
SoulGamit 01-07-06, 03:21 PM	First, a misconception I feel the need to clear up: High charisma does not = beuty in any way, shape, or form. The ghost's horrid appearence ability's DC is based off of charisma for pete's sake. Charisma is force of personality, people with high charisma are easy to like, great leaders, good manipulators and they know people, street wise might be a good example for charisma (although being street wise would be a combination of wis and cha). Now, playing out a steriotype... is easier then it seems. It's best done by doing nothing at all, I mean that literally. Don't speak unless you need to, and make what you say profound. Don't use big words all the time when you don't need to, that's not the sign of an intelligent person that's usually the sign of a conceted one. Keep in mind he is keading and dealing with barbarians, so he will have some of the steriotype (which would mostly be reflected in his beliefs and appearance). However, he should be able to understand big words and the more "modern" ways and handle himself in polite society, at least as far as his appearance will allow. There is another angle that you could play, namely that he isn't really a barbarian per say, but he just commands the stupid barbarians because he's smarter then them and claims to have god-like powers or some connection to their god. You could tone your intelligence down around the people of your tribe and behind their backs act all formal and stuff. Keep in mind that this may **** off the other player's characters if they find out. You may want to take half-dragon paragon after DD levels to further your connection to the dragon, if UA is allowed. Oh, one more thing, if, as a Dragon Disciple, you feel the power slipping from you and everyone on the team starts to surpass you, talk to your DM about having the unnamed stat bonuses gained from the class stack with the template gained from Dragon Apothosis. It's not that over-powering and RAW, that's how it works. While it wasn't really intended to be that way, it isn't that big of a deal considering the dragon disciple's low power level.
Morka 01-10-06, 03:12 PM	That reminds me Mel Gibson in Braveheart. William Wallace, his character, is a Scot raised by his travelling uncle, and he learned many things. Once adult, he decided he wanted to live a peaceful life and cultivate the earth. For reason explained in the movie, he ended up leading the Scot rebellion against the Britons. When the king's daughter-in-law is sent to negociate with him, she is utterly surprised when she realise the barbarian understand what she say in latin... cultivate the earth. Sorry, I don't want to hyjack the thread to another subject, but as I was typing this, I realised it was perhaps a metaphore. Perhaps did that mean that William Wallace, a cultivate man, just wanted to make the illiterate scots more cultivate?
ConfoundedReptile 01-17-06, 09:00 PM	Well really, the whole Barbarian concept is a bit of a racist imperialist stereotype to begin with. The Greeks dubbed foreigners "barbaros" since they thought their language sounded like they were saying "bar bar bar." The word was adopted by the imperialists who followed them (the romans, the germans, spanish, british, americans, etc). The Japanese considered the Portuguese and British barbarians as well because of their poor bathing habits, and less cultivated culture at the time. So really, a barbarian is what outsiders label them. In the game though, the idea is it's an uncivilized culture; not inferior necessarily, but definitely less refined. In game terms, it's also considered less intellectual bc of its lack of a formal written language. It could be based off of Roman barbarians: the goths, vandals, huns, celts, etc; Medieval barbarians: moors, vikings, scottish; Colonial barbarians: iroquois, ashanti, tuareg, aztecs, etc. So really, it's more likely for a barbarian to be intelligent than not; just with a different skillset. This could be applied in the game by someone who was a brilliant strategist. Crazy Horse lured Custer to ride out against what he thought was a small band of native americans, instead of waiting for reinforcements, straight into a deep valley where his company was surrounded and slaughtered. Stealth and ambush are an important part of barbarian warfare; and tradition, folklore and ritual replace academics, science and formal religion. The leaders of barbarian cultures, like all other cultures, will usually be those who are persuasive and that speak to the people. Napolean was short, Hitler was unstable and paranoid, Churchill fat, Stalin had a giant mustache, etc. Without starting a political argument, I'd like to say as an example that George Bush is very charismatic because people think they can relate to him; feel that he understands them. No one really thinks he speaks especially well or has an overpowering intellect. But he has a rapport with the common people, combined with brilliant political strategy and effective propaganda. Charisma is far more than beauty, or even persuasive speaking; it's the ability to understand your audience and tell them what they want to hear and somehow convince them to trust you. And you can accomplish that by capitalizing on their pride, pity, traditions, fear, anger, patriotism, etc.