Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Arilou_skiff 07-08-03, 02:56 PM	I recently re-read my stock of Pratchett books (I've got most of them) and the more I read the more I noticed how much Mr. Vimes fits with the description of LG... He's a scruffy sort of LG, he doesen't WANT to be LG, but he keeps himself in check and generally speaking acts LG.... Anyone disagree? This also shows that two characters can have the same alignment ands till be very different: Carrot for example is LG in shining armour, while Vimes is the LG who has seen to much to be healthy but still keeps on going...
Theocracity 07-08-03, 03:01 PM	I've always thought of him as more the Chaotic Good style, with Lawful tendencies.
GanarothLes 07-09-03, 03:17 AM	Yup. Sam: Definite LG. Remember folks, Lawful Good doesn't neccessarily mean 'honourable,' nor does it mean 'presentable.' He ALWAYS follows the law that he has subjected himself too, keeps his word, listens to authority (admittedly while swearing a blue streak at their stupidity) tries to keep the 'good guys' on top, and has a great respect for sentient life (admittedly less when said life is trying to end his, of course.) Carrot: Classic Lawful Good. No question about it. Nobby: CN. He's a loveable rascal, but his first love will always be himself. He's only in the policeing job because of the opportunities it affords. 'Sides, he can make a certain amount of trouble and not get called down for it. Colon: LN. Once again, in it for himself, but with an emphasis on preserving his place within the system. Not that he's a bad person, really, but he doesn't like to upset the status quo, and quickly becomes uncomfortable when the boat is rocked. Angua: Probably CG. She seems to care about the little guy, but only appears to be tangentially concerned with the rules. Anyone care to back me up? Detritus: CG, Without a doubt. A keen sense of justice, but rarely concerned about how one arrives at it. Cheery Littlebottom: Eh, I'll leave this one up in the air. Neutral Good is where my money is, but it could land anywhere this side of evil. She's a rebel/conformist (ie: attempting to rebel, but afraid to rebel TOO much) who really hasn't presented any preference one way or the other on moral issues. As for the minor characters... I'd peg Dorfl at LG, Buggy Swires at CN, Reg at N (too many chaotic AND lawful tendancies to go either way entirely), and Visit at LN. And of course, then there are the hundreds of other Pratchett characters... Yeesh.
NeutralNeutral 07-09-03, 06:10 AM	No, Vimes is Neutral Good. Carrot is Lawful Good. The Patrican is Lawful Neutral.
Fox Lee 07-09-03, 09:22 AM	It's a tough call to make. I always considered him NG, because I'm sure that if it ever came down to choosing between Law and Good, Vimes wouldn't even have to think about it; that, and he really does seem to love it when he has an excuse to stiff the devoutly lawful types. He could pass for LG too, though, depending how you look at it; he's my fiancee's favourite LG example.
Arilou_skiff 07-09-03, 11:19 AM	Originally posted by Fox Lee It's a tough call to make. I always considered him NG, because I'm sure that if it ever came down to choosing between Law and Good, Vimes wouldn't even have to think about it; that, and he really does seem to love it when he has an excuse to stiff the devoutly lawful types. He could pass for LG too, though, depending how you look at it; he's my fiancee's favourite LG example. Well, remember what he says in NightsWatch? "He had sworn his oath, hundreds of rulers had missed what a devious oath it was..." The point is though that although he's a bit Chaotic inside he still *acts* LG, he doesen't break the law, not often, and when the Law forces him to do something that is arguably non-good (arresting the Patrician for no good reason as in Jingo t.ex.) he still does it. There are a few other examples as well. I'd crack the patrician down as NG myself, he has no scruples but he is, overall dedicated to keep things running: He realizes the world isn't perfect and that he can't make it so, so he just tries to make things plod along...
Fox Lee 07-10-03, 12:02 AM	Like I sadi - I think he can pass for either, depending on how you look at him. Alignment isn't just in your actions; what you think still reflects on it, even when it doesn't match up with what you do. I agree that he always acts Lawful - but he does think in a vary Chaotic fashion, a lot of the time. So, I feel he sits best on Neutral - though I agree that he can pass for either. I would never place him as purely CG, though.
Arilou_skiff 07-10-03, 09:30 AM	Originally posted by Fox Lee Like I sadi - I think he can pass for either, depending on how you look at him. Alignment isn't just in your actions; what you think still reflects on it, even when it doesn't match up with what you do. I agree that he always acts Lawful - but he does think in a vary Chaotic fashion, a lot of the time. So, I feel he sits best on Neutral - though I agree that he can pass for either. I would never place him as purely CG, though. Ah, but you see, the point is that even though he has chaotic feelings he represses them, and this IMHO makes him lawful, a neutral character would accept them and perhaps submit to them, but Vimes is in *opposition* to his chaotic side...
Fox Lee 07-10-03, 10:20 AM	Originally posted by Arilou_skiff Ah, but you see, the point is that even though he has chaotic feelings he represses them, and this IMHO makes him lawful, a neutral character would accept them and perhaps submit to them, but Vimes is in *opposition* to his chaotic side... I disagree. Vimes isn't in opposition to his Chaotic side; he's quite proud of it. It's where most of his common sense resides, and the reason that despite following the laws, he does know when to question them and bend them. It's possible for a character to be Neutral by virtue of having equal amounts of Chaotic and Lawful traits, and being able to keep them in balance because they understand that they need both aspects to exist and be themselves. Vimes, in my mind, falls into this category.
Arilou_skiff 07-11-03, 10:58 AM	Originally posted by Fox Lee I disagree. Vimes isn't in opposition to his Chaotic side; he's quite proud of it. It's where most of his common sense resides, and the reason that despite following the laws, he does know when to question them and bend them. It's possible for a character to be Neutral by virtue of having equal amounts of Chaotic and Lawful traits, and being able to keep them in balance because they understand that they need both aspects to exist and be themselves. Vimes, in my mind, falls into this category. The point I see is that he seldom, if ever, break the laws. He bends them, yes, but I've seen very few times he has actually *broken* the law (although he has been tempted many times) When I say he is in opposition to his chaotic side i mean those times when he (like in Man-at-Arms) is willing to ignore the Law in favour of vigilanté justice...
Fox Lee 07-12-03, 08:07 AM	Dude, I know you see it that way. I'm saying I don't. What about that can't you accept? ^^; Vimes is a person who acts Lawfully, but has many Chaotic urges. Alternatively, he has many chaotic urges, but still acts within the law. I feel that these two factors balance out to make him neutral. You don't. I do. Why is this becoming a debate?
idiotgod 07-12-03, 07:05 PM	I'd say that Vimes is about halfway between LG and NG. Angua... about halfway between LG and CG? Leaning towards CG? Nobby and Colon are kinda hard to classify. Sure, Nobby is a petty thief, but you can depend on him, and Colon is dependable too. Nobby is probably halfway between Chaotic Good and Chaotic Neutral. I'd say Colon is halfway between NG and N. Vetinari is very close to N. Veeery close. He may be in it for himself, but he seems to care about AM. How about other characters? Let's start with the witches. Granny Weatherwax is also probably between LG and NG, although one could argue for N, since she sorta seems to do whatever is best for Lancre. Magrat is probably NG, she tries to do what is best as well. Not as successful though. Nanny Ogg is probably between NG and CG... She's a free spirit, sorta, but will usually play by the rules. Greebo is probably the best example of CN.
Arilou_skiff 07-13-03, 06:19 PM	Greebo is CLEARLY CE :) He only does anything out of either fear or hope for a reward :) I'd call Angua CG, her committment seems to be more to her personal feelings/friends/Carrot than to the Watch itself. Colon I'll say LN, Nobby probably CN. Vetinari... Either LG, NG or N, he generally does what he thinks is best for Ankh-Morpork. Rincewind is CG, borderline CN. Mustrum Ridcully and all the other wizards are CG, with the possible exception of Stibbons, who is either LN or LG. Granny is NG but would LIKE to be NE, Magrat is NG, Nanny is CG. The Igors are LN.
Kupokpok 07-13-03, 08:35 PM	I would say that Vetinari, like most politicians, is LN, but acts mostly LE (scorpion pits, anyone?). Main reason: He allows the city-wide Guild corruption, he'll do anything to get his way (and he ALWAYS gets his way), and just doesn't care about the little guy, since he doesn't have to worry about re-election. Also: Mr. Pin: NE, like most assassins. Mr. Tulip: CN; He doesn't know any better, and he keeps snorting things. TeaTime (teh-ah-teem-ah): CE. An insane, calculating assassin. Death: LN. He ensures balance in the multiverse. Susan: CG. Does the right thing, just not in an orthodox way. Librarian (sp?): LN, except when he's called a monkey, then CE.