Post/Author/DateTime	Post
MysticRhythms 09-12-03, 03:07 PM	Alright. I'm a fairly experienced DM but stereotypes just rub my rhubarb. Have you been in this situation? You have a player who loves Kung Fu movies. He wants a character that can sever your spine with his pinky finger and still be able to cut a tomato. He spends hours a day trying to talk like Michael Winslow from the Police Academy movies badly mimicking Bruce Lee. He refers to younger people as Grasshopper. He's convinced that martial artists of today really CAN throw fireballs from their hands while screaming "Ryu-Ken." That's right - he sits at your fantasy gaming table and makes a monk. He calls him Shang Lo or whatever. No matter how you slice it, his character has "oriental" written all over it and you hat to tell him to tear it all up because his character really has no homeland in your world. He's inappropriate because you just don't want an Oriental "spin" on your games. He really wants to play a Monk, but he has no idea how to roleplay it without speaking in philosophical terms or any of a hundred Oriental stereotypes for such characters. Anyone out there play a fantasy monk? A human, elven, dwarven, halfling, half-orc or gnomish monk that has no Oriental basis whatsoever? Does anyone out there have a fantasy concept for a monk that can't be traced back to some anime character? I'd really like to hear it because I've come very close to telling my players there are only 10 classes in Core 3.5 and the 11th one is mistakenly lost and should be in Oriental Adventures?
Frodo Lives 09-12-03, 03:33 PM	See half orc history in Sick of Stero-types of Half orcs. My monk was not the least bit oriental, he was more of the calm at peace with himself but don't **** him off type monk.
Alathar Vierce 09-12-03, 03:43 PM	Well first off if my 2.0 data might be slightly off, but I believe could be used here. A monk in 2nd edition was closely related to a cleric, but limited to no casting ability.. While it has a large tie in with oriental based settings, I'd say a monk could easily be tied into a local clergy. For some examples I'd take a look in the FRCS. Under the description of classes in the world of Faerun it lists a few sample sects for your use. Would easily be modified for your core religions, and saves you from the stereotype. Religion could tie in with strength of mind and body to help guide the monk towards a perfect self.
JoAT 09-12-03, 06:41 PM	There was no monk in 2e... at least, not until Spells and Magic came along (though there might have been a cleric kit for fighting monks in the cleric's handbook). However, there was one in 1e. That monk was designed to be an 'exotic' character, if I remember correctly. Little to no roleplaying information was inculded, but if there was, I'd say that It would be the same as in the current PHB. When the first oriental adventures came out, the monk changed. Alot. They OA monk of 1e was much diffrent than the original monk, and they recomened that for oriental adventures games, that's what one should use. Just alittle background there... uh, anyways.... I tend to view the monk abit diffrently than some people. For me, I was always intreested in the fact that, as part of it's description, it said that they were users of magic (ki), though they channel it through thier body. Now there's a thought. Thinking of if that way tends to make me think less of oriental mystics, and more of just mystics in general. They're much like wizards of sorcerers (or clerics), in that thier primary goal is really to increase thier own power, but they tend to find that thier power comes from enlightenment from within, rather than drawn from some outside source. As a result, then train hard to further encourage this enlightenment. However, that, like wizards and sorcerers, other than that fact, they are pretty much normal people. Damn, looking at this it looks kinda pointless and rambling... I hope it makes some sense... I need more sleep...
HammerFist 09-12-03, 07:03 PM	2nd Edition never had Monks, at least not to my knowledge. There's nothing wrong with a Monk having an oriental background, if such a place exists in your world. There doesn't have to be, and even if there is, Monks can come from someplace else.
Paragon_Squirrel 09-12-03, 08:48 PM	2nd Edition never had Monks, at least not to my knowledge. There's nothing wrong with a Monk having an oriental background, if such a place exists in your world. There doesn't have to be, and even if there is, Monks can come from someplace else. Like another Plane! However, it's a bit.... overly unlikely that such a plane would exist.... Otherwise, I think that one of the main things omitted, as is mentioned here, is the idea of monks being part of a clergy. I.e., one of those secluded monasteries somewhere in the mountains..... Heck, I'd love to see a monk who is sworn to silence (Well, generally it only applies to part of the day, but you get the idea). Y'know, a monk with, say, a brown, old robe, a quarterstaff, lots of reservation, philisophical sayings also, praying after every battle, etc.
spike spiegel 09-12-03, 11:15 PM	I've played an elven monk that did not train at a monastary or anything along those lines. My character grew up from a very young age as a slave. Wanting to strike back and gain his freedom he had to find a way to fight with no weapons. Training in secret he learned to fight unarmed. Using the farming tools he was given as weapons he developed his own martial art. After 25 years of training in secret, he killed his overseer and escaped. His style of combat is not based on any oriental martial art, it's more of a discipled brawling style if anything. What it lacks in grace, it makes up in effectiveness.
Zoticus 09-13-03, 12:42 AM	A friend on mine had a human (Uthgardt) monk that was loosely based on skinheads. (you know, the big, ugly, tattooed, beer swilling hooligans who beat you up at punk concerts when you scuff their boots) He spoke in a cockney accent and said "bloody" and "mate" quite a bit, started fights at bars that he called "pubs", told beggars to get a job, cheered good bards, chased off bad bards, and drank copiously.
Skyrocket 09-13-03, 12:56 AM	Sounds like one of my monks. He just wanted to improve himself by fighting though opponants (thus gaining much XP). So he became a "fighter for hire." Money wasn`t as important as the chance for a good brawl. He was sorta based on Sanosuke from the anime Ruroni Kenshin. I even called him Zanza, Sanosuke`s old nickname, and he was rasied by a group of monks a bit like the Sekihotai who raised Sano. Of course, my guy didn`t waste his $ gambeling. He saved his cash to get magic items to boost his stats. After all, in a world full of spellcasters and such a monk needs every advantage he can get. I remember after I gave him a ring of evasion and some gloves of dex almost nothing could hit him. It was great! :)
RaKhan 09-13-03, 04:38 AM	Originally posted by HammerFist 2nd Edition never had Monks, at least not to my knowledge. There's nothing wrong with a Monk having an oriental background, if such a place exists in your world. There doesn't have to be, and even if there is, Monks can come from someplace else. Yes, there were monks in AD&D 2nd Ed. The FRCS (specifically in Faiths and Pantheons) had monks for various Faerunian deities. They used the rules from Spells and Magic for the priest subclass called the "monk". They were able to cast spells, albeit their healing and necromancy spells were minor spheres (meaning they couldn't cast Heal nor Resurrection). Then again, with Spells & Magic along with Skills & Powers, you could get character creation points to change that (which I did ;) ). I used to abuse the DM's NPCs with my modified monks of Ilmater. The Endurance of Ilmater spell just made my monk a holy terror. However, because they were a priest subclass back in AD&D 2nd Ed, that meant that they got the cleric THAC0, which sucked at high levels. This drove me to make a monk-like character, but using different classes to make one worthy enough to be called a monk. He was a Stalker/Psiologist with some major point swapping to give him the capability to become a grand master in the unarmed martial arts at the sacrifice of not being able to be proficient in any weapon ever. This guy was pretty powerful. I miss playing him. ;)
Laelenie 09-13-03, 08:26 AM	haha got a friend of mine like yours... 10 D&D campaigns.. 10 monks The fact is.. that the actual 3rd edition monk was based on Oriental monks... no occidental monks actually studied martial arts.... well the problem is really the person not the system... anyway I will personally flush every monastery info on the PHB and make the monk "just" a normal punching class (or maybve disallow fully the class... he can always go for a fighter with improved unarmed etc etc...
Illithid Tentacles 09-13-03, 09:19 AM	Originally posted by HammerFist 2nd Edition never had Monks, at least not to my knowledge. Actually, in the Complete Priest's Handbook -which I still have laying around somewhere-, there was a kit (remember kits? They're like PrC's in reverse) called the Fighting Monk. I remeber there was a table that had the results of your attack roll (IIRC a natural 20 did 3 points of damage and had a 30% chance to immediately knock the target out). You can probably find the book online.
HammerFist 09-13-03, 09:57 AM	I still have the books. Maybe I should go back and say "there was no core monk class in 2e," but I'm not going to. If you go and look at those monk variants, they suck, and nobody in their right mind would play one.
RaKhan 09-13-03, 12:07 PM	Originally posted by HammerFist I still have the books. Maybe I should go back and say "there was no core monk class in 2e," but I'm not going to. If you go and look at those monk variants, they suck, and nobody in their right mind would play one. The Fighting Monk kit from The Priests Handbook did suck; however, the priestly subclass from Skills & Powers called "Monk" was pretty damn kick butt except for a weak priestly THAC0. I still think monks should have a fighter's THAC0/BAB.
Charles Phipps 09-13-03, 03:36 PM	Nice job there everyone
JoAT 09-13-03, 05:29 PM	Originally posted by RaKhan The Fighting Monk kit from The Priests Handbook did suck; however, the priestly subclass from Skills & Powers called "Monk" was pretty damn kick butt except for a weak priestly THAC0. I still think monks should have a fighter's THAC0/BAB. Yeah, though, given all the other fun abilites that it had, it made sense that they had a low THAC0... Had to give the poor little fighter something besides specialization... well, until you got into the Skills and Powers, and Combat and Tactics fighters, anyways... Ah, now in those days, there were some mean characters hanging around...
JosephKell 09-13-03, 09:32 PM	Monks were always Priests... it was the culture that was different. And not all Monks were warriors. A lot just wore robes and lived in the monestary. It all depends on the religion... a Monk of Kord might be martial (he is the God of Strength after all) while a Monk of of Ehlonna could be devoted to preserving nature (much like a druid, but in a more civilized way... like not being wasteful) DM's should feel free to modify the weapon proficiencies... The main reason the D&D Monk seems so Eastern is because Western Monks were generally peaceful guys that lived in monestaries. They just farmed, prayed, and took vows of silence... not exactly PC material...
Mivonks 09-14-03, 03:42 AM	What about a Friar Tuck style character? A "man of the cloth" that can hold his own in a fight.
Ranthanas 09-14-03, 08:14 AM	I see the monk as someone dedicated to mastering himself. Although the class is called "Monk", someone of that class doesn't have to be an actual monk, but does need driving focus in his life, whether to prove himself, a mystical devotion, personal challenge, wanting revenge, a geas or [insert reason here] If he just wanted to be a good fighter he'd probably be a fighter. Also if he didn't have the drive and discipline to master himself he would probably either be a fighter or rogue. Whether he wears saphron robes and wanders round chanting "Om" is pretty much irrelevant for this purpose.
Yama-san 09-15-03, 11:00 AM	In the Greyhawk based campaign that I'm currently playing in, we have several characters who have their origins in or near Zeif. One is a psychic warrior, another a monk, both trained at the same school. The monk had a very strong focus but didn't have the talent to follow the path of a psychic warrior or psion and turned his minor abilities (ki) inward and tuned his body with them. He received the same training as the p.w., but conventrated on unarmed combat. A similar backstory (whether it's with a temple training clerics, a wizards school, or something else) might work.
gonzofighter 09-15-03, 02:12 PM	The character Parsival in Richard Monaco's novels might be the example youre looking for. He is kinda monkish. He still fights as a knight when the situation calls for it. (Full armor, lance & shield, mounted) But he mostly goes into battle unarmed, defeating foes by grappling, taking their weapon, and killing them with it. He still wears armor though.
MysticRhythms 09-15-03, 02:21 PM	Thanks for al of the input thus far. Keep it coming.
Tzor 09-15-03, 04:11 PM	Sterotypes, especially bad ones, exist for every class, not just the monk, but people tend to look mostly at the monk because the sterotype is not a common European fantasy one. The problem is that when people do see unarmed fighter sterotypes they don't associate with the "monk" class but with a fighter class who just isn't using armor or advanced weapons at the moment. Think of this: A monk is proficient with crossbow and dagger. A monk is dedicated to discipline. You might think of a monk as a medieval equivalent of "special forces." Or even a spy. The monk class works just as well with a kung fu move as it does with a Marquis of Queensburry move. In fact most of the weapons in the prficiency are western (club, crossbow (light or heavy), dagger, handaxe, javelin, quarterstaff).
Bishop Drazz 09-15-03, 05:44 PM	Just a couple non-oriental monks I've seen. The athlete. He's more into physical perfect and skills than he is about fighting and philosophy. Skills show up here--he wants to jump, climb, and swim better than anyone else. He takes competition seriously, but fights and acts fairly. Life is live in the struggle to outdo others and yourself. The wrestler. Basically a thug who feels that he can beat anyone in a brawl. He's loud, and a bit crude. But, allow him within reach of an opponent, and its just about over but the dice rolling.
laughing-dragon 09-16-03, 02:24 PM	I say tell your friend to come play in my game. He sounds like a fun roleplayer who would be useful and keep us laughing at the same time. By the way, modern day martial artists do use fireballs, but they spit them from their mouths. Its totally cool!
spray paint affiliate 09-17-03, 05:06 AM	Originally posted by MysticRhythms You have a player who loves Kung Fu movies. He wants a character that can sever your spine with his pinky finger and still be able to cut a tomato. He spends hours a day trying to talk like Michael Winslow from the Police Academy movies badly mimicking Bruce Lee. He refers to younger people as Grasshopper. Originally posted by laughing-dragon I say tell your friend to come play in my game. He sounds like a fun roleplayer who would be useful and keep us laughing at the same time. I S'pose this guy has got ranks in "irritating profound philisophical statements" as well..........
Trydan 09-18-03, 07:42 AM	I S'pose this guy has got ranks in "irritating profound philisophical statements" as well.......... Hihi.... the monk in our last campaign did. But he was based on a buhdist monk. (Did I spell buhdist correctly? :confused: ). We had no end of "collected wisdom". Thus, for most of us, it came as a relief when he perished on a readied spear during a charge. :rolleyes: I actually like Zoticus' "skinhead" idea, as the "slave" idea from Spike Spiegel (which I actually think is quite inspired). If I was playing a monk, I'd consider going the route of a "special forces" agent, someone with perhaps some levels of Rogue. They'd be used as decoys, etc., but have intense training to act unarmed if necessary. Another idea, though, is a polymorphed creature. They are so used to fighting with their claws, bite, etc., that now they are human, they shun weapons and armour.
Yama-san 09-18-03, 08:08 AM	Actually, the monk/psychic warrior in our campaign is pretty much a special forces type. He's been recruited by the Splintered Mind, and often has his own agenda in the various adventures he gets involved in. At first, he was kind of difficult to play, I had trouble finding his place in the story line, but after working with the DM a bit, and really looking at his potential, he's one of the most versatile characters in the group.
HvF 09-19-03, 01:07 AM	The athlete is a good "arch-type" or stereotype to draw on for Monks, as has always been noted. A variation of the slave is the Gladiator. Many unusual styles of combat and various weapons were displayed in the real world, how much more so in Fantasy World? This doesn't even have to be a Gladius and Sandels kind of thing. What about semi-illegal fights in warehouses run by a thieves guild? Would make for some great monks. Monks as Temple guards makes a certain amount of sense, especially in a city that doesn't allow people to run around in heavy armor (or tote big weapons) outside of the city guard. Monks also make great cultists, though this is somewhat limited to evil NPCs. Powerful creatures bent on attaining godhood might well start with a cult of monks venerating him/her/it. Monks combine a clerics devotion to "something" without the need for granting spells. Various nefarious entities could grant power to those who seek it by training them in their martial/"religious" ways. The various Dukes of Hell might make a good example of something of this sort, as do the insanely powerful leaders of the Githyanki and Githzerai (Vlakith and the unamed wizard king). OR, what about devote followers of a dead or missing power? They still believe in the teachings but have to find another way to guard themselves w/o active clerics. A group of Planescape monks dedicated to Aoskar the dead god of Portals perhaps? (Boy PCs who rub shoulders with them better keep looking over their shoulder lest they be sent to the mazes). Their goal could be as benign as to keep the teachings and knowledge of their former patron alive in the lives of men or as worldshaking as the attempt to resurect their fallen Diety. None of these concepts is overly "eastern" in its leanings. -Eric Gorman
spray paint affiliate 09-20-03, 05:23 AM	Originally posted by Trydan If I was playing a monk, I'd consider going the route of a "special forces" agent, someone with perhaps some levels of Rogue. They'd be used as decoys, etc., but have intense training to act unarmed if necessary. Originally posted by Yama-san Actually, the monk/psychic warrior in our campaign is pretty much a special forces type. I see the monk im playing (or trying to play, see http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=102411) as a covert, insertional character. Kinda like a rogue, but without the need for thievery.
GoblinPress 09-20-03, 07:25 AM	Let's see... A few monk styles that differ from the stereotype kung-fu guy... First, the easily stereotyped, and thus easy to portray: 1. Pro wrestler. A blustery, intimidating fellow, just as likely to shout in your face as pulverize you with a blow. 2. Rasputin. Big, manipulative, and generally motionless, he just does what needs doing, and nothing can stop him. Here's a couple other monks I've played over the years: A large, fat, jovial fellow. He was the life of the party, and always made sure that those around him had a good time. Laid back and relaxed, but dreadfully serious when necessary. He was one part Buddha, and one part Fezziwig. A grim fellow, trying to emulate the concept of nothingness. Stealth was his specialty, and he moved through life trying to cause as few ripples as possible. When in action, he was more like an Assassin, as in the Old-Man-of-the-Mountain Arabic style. One BIG thing to keep in mind about Monks: they do not necessarily have anything to do with religion. They don't have to be devoted to any god or anything.
Sphyre 09-23-03, 12:56 AM	Here's one that is definately different... The centaur monk, this is my next character concept so he has no name yet... His alignment is lawful neutral although he doesn't fit the stereotype... See he has his own goals that he wants to accomplish but he doesn't really care for others much. The way he finds best to accomplish his goals is to follow the rules of a society in most cases to gain their approval and mainly to stay out of drawing too much attention to himself. He's on a road to understanding and reflection and thus finds that the monk way of life to most fit his desires. He avoids main conflict and would prefer to be far away from battles and squabbles. When he finds himself in a conflict his monk skills allow him to be prepared at a moments notice, needing no weapon. He uses his superior speed and spring attack to attack his foes, but when he gets in melee his flurry of blows deals quite a punch. (Centaurs are large size and get the large damage for a monks unnarmed strike) So there you go - totally not normal. In fact he cares not the alignment or priorities of his allies as long as they help him accomplish the goal at hand.
laughing-dragon 09-23-03, 08:53 AM	My monk Dong-Qwai would kicka alla your monks arses
supermonk7 09-23-03, 04:27 PM	One of the first D&D characters that I ever played was a 1st edition monk set in Greyhawk. In that campaign, long ago, the Theocracy of the Pale was a lawful evil realm, ruled by the church of the Black Tyrant, Hextor! Monks served GODS in that campaign, and learned their skills and powers in monastic enviroments staffed by clerics and religious fanatics. It was not Oriental in flavour, but something unique to our campaign world. Eventually, Arminas had a falling out with his diety, and left the service of Hextor, founding a monastery dedicated to ideals and philosophy, not gods; but that my friend is another story. The Grand Master Arminas
Cail Loricson 09-24-03, 09:57 PM	How about the PhysAds from Shadowrun... They were basically the same as spellcasters, except they focused all of their spells internally... I mean, it isnt such a leap...they used magic to improve their body, while using the techniques of meditation to improve their mind... The monk gains his powers from mastering his body and mind...he doesnt have to come from a monastery or religious order, he only has to be devoted to bringing his mind and body into synch... Anyway, there are plenty of ways to explain the "monk" class in D&D... :) hmmm...I wonder if I actually made any sense with this post or just confused the heck out of myself
Unorthodox 09-26-03, 03:41 PM	The first monk that i played in 3e was a halfling In the world, halflings were basicly gypsy-types, and and would wander from town to town. They weren't trusted where ever they went, and most towns had rules about travelers bringing weapons into town, with it being extra strict for halflings. My character was trained by his caravan to be able to go into towns with other halflings and protect them from harm, without having to use weapons. Even though he was lawful good, his code that he followed was very different than most. For instance, he didn't consider anything wasn't currently held by a person to be "owned", and therefore free to be taken by someone that wants to use it. He would get in trouble a lot, but he had the skills to get out of trouble. A lot of fun.
Demonwolf 10-11-03, 02:47 AM	well, first, remember the abellican brothers from demonwars? and next- my DM was pretty flexible with rules so he let me play a multiclass barb/monk. I played a half-elven monk who used his long life-span to achieve oneness with the wilderness, harnessing the spirits of the wild to fight with his natural weapons.
Iry 10-11-03, 11:52 AM	I've played several monks, ranging from the Master of Hands to a dwarven cannonball style, and I have to say that the most relaxed and fun was that of an monk that was played as a British Pugalist. Just your basic lanky boxer, snubbing himself with his thumb, and thumpin' people down while occasionally decying the lack or need for fair play. His philosophical banter? "I like to call myself a warrior-poet, and my fists do the verses." He was a pretty decent guy, but Lawful Neutral in his belief that violence was a part of politics.
Occams_Razor 10-23-04, 03:30 AM	I realize that Sho Pi, in the Serpentwar Saga, by Raymond E. Feist, has an Oriental name, but his character is a little different, still has the philosophical stuff without being a complete Kung-Fu rip-off. I'm actually playing a character like that right now.
philnicau 10-23-04, 05:33 AM	I've always liked the concept of a Dwarven order of Monks (The Seekers of Purity) who have dedicated themselves to refining their bodies, like metal workers refine metal to produce remove impurities and strengthen it. They see weapons as a prop that slows their path to purity of Body and Mind, but being dwarves they have a powerful strength of family and community so they train in combat to protect those, and to encourage others to follow their path. Their Path is very much an intellectual one without any religious overtones, in this case a member can follow any Deity (or none), but must (the monk) be lawful (the intellectual discipline simply can be achieved with a chaotic mindset), most are lawful neutral. The Seekers tend to attract those dwarves who see a spiritual side to their crafts (especially Miners, Jewellers and Metalsmiths), and guide them into a desire to improve themselves.
RadicalTaoist 10-24-04, 09:48 PM	You might think of a monk as a medieval equivalent of "special forces." Or even a spy.To spin off this (although truthfully I had the idea before I read down to this post): Monk as a Super Soldier They're not raised by churches, they're raised by the military. Children - usually relatives of commanders, military intel agents, or other such figures whose lives are attached to their country's armed forces - are taken in their early teens to live a life under the philosophy of mastering themselves into an ideal weapon. Any of their mystic (or religious, or arcane, or psionic, or whatever) nature is an academic pursuit for them, only a path to their goal of being the ultimate spec/covert ops agent. They need no weapons, and what weapons they do use are humble and easy to hide. They are mobile, and can enter areas normal soldiers can't think of - swimming under moat walls, climbing and scaling a bunker or fort, sneaking past guards, you name it. Their training and focus eventually gives them supernatural abilities and defenses. Their devotion to the goal of being a better military tool is absolute.
Draco Strang 10-25-04, 01:11 AM	I had a monk in Forgotten Realms that followed Oghma (read the cleric quintet, they loved to wrestle) and I sort of followed that vein. However, he did have a pretty perverse side: Once he became immune to poisons, he would enter drinking contests at local taverns, and win every single time. (Never ever got drunk)
Son of Khoron 10-26-04, 02:51 PM	Does anyone out there have a fantasy concept for a monk that can't be traced back to some anime character? Stereotypes are not so difficult to break away from, but it seems that it is the easiest thing to relate certain concepts to. TV, movies, books, etc. all portray monks in a common way, he/she is the Kwai Chang Caine-type, the Morpheus-type, the Pai Mei type, etc. All say philosophical things, not necessarily the same way but they all can break bones easily, kill you, speak in riddles and are alone with no one. Historically, stereotypes have their roots in some form of truth. If the player wishes to play a monk in that fashion, thats fine provided he plays the OA version. I have played monks before, a few times, none are from Kozakura or Shou Lung or Wa (the Kara-Tur nations) and they act like a pilgrim or cleric than Kwai Chang Caine. If I decided to take the Shou Disciple prestige class, I may resort to spouting philosophical riddles and such to fit the concept correctly.
mythSSK 10-26-04, 10:39 PM	I played a monk a while back, and really wanted to come up with an original concept. The character I came up with: He was a Lawful Good human named Tobias, and he been raised among circus performers. His family were the acrobats and dextrous performers at the circus, and he trained to follow in their footsteps and become an acrobatic performer, swinging on the trapeze and a small amount of a Capoeira-like performance that his father had invented to enhance his act. He left the circus on his 18th birthday to find adventure and fame.
SaintedBerzerker 10-29-04, 02:00 AM	You could always go a little easy on the rules and let your player play a more rogue/brawler type character. a little more chaotic, stealthy picks locks ................ my brain is really fried
Ringwalker 11-02-04, 07:41 PM	I just saw this thread for the first time this evening. I love monks, but I hate that most of 'em are so influenced by kung fu and anime. I developed a monastic order for the Forgotten Realms that could be translated over to any other setting that has elves. The Tel'Menisilme are an Elven order of monks and mystics* that devote themselves to the teachings of their goddess, Sehanine Moonbow. These monks and mystics refer to themselves as Ránar, or "Wanderers", and they travel the world following cryptic dreams and omens. You can best think of them as enigmatic holy men that talk in riddles and speak of dreams as if they were as real as the ground beneath their feet. You can read what I submitted... here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?threadid=205919). *Mystic class from DLCS or substitute Favoured Soul from CD Enzo Sarlas "Planescape: What doesn't kill you, makes you stranger."
Moon-Lancer 11-04-04, 11:14 PM	Is it so wrong to have an Asian monk? Its just an equivalent stereo type to a ranger (legaolas) fighter (Gimly) wizard (gandolf) paladin/ranger (strider) and this is all taken from one book title (forgive my spelling the slaughter of their names). ... I mean common. They are all stereotypes. That’s why they are called classes. You’re classifying a type of stereotype. And to think that a whole world is just like Europe is just crazzy. No D&D world is complete without some sort of eastern land if it is only a village at least its to remind us that Europe is not the forefront of fantasy or dungeons or dragons. You can’t create the world and forget that the world is only a small country that thinks its the center of the universe. BTW Amarica sux too so im not bashing England or anything PS Bush sucks PPS Bush is the false prophit
nihility 11-04-04, 11:25 PM	BTW Amarica sux too so im not bashing England or anything PS Bush sucks PPS Bush is the false prophit I recommend that you put more ranks in diplomacy when you get your next level.
Ringwalker 11-04-04, 11:31 PM	The whole point of this thread is that there are *some* players, and DMs, who want to break away from the *most common* stereotypes, specifically asian-influenced monks. I presented a monastic order that is at least trying to stay away from blatant references to wushu or anime. That's not to say I haven't reproduced a stereotype, just hopefully not an asian one. The cryptic wiseman/wanderer is present in many cultures (nordic, amerind, indian, etc.), not just asian, and I've added a little elf-ness to it, for additional flavour. Is it so wrong to have an Asian monk? ...They are all stereotypes. That’s why they are called classes. You’re classifying a type of stereotype. Interesting thing about stereotypes... they're everywhere. The internet, for example, has a few of its own. Did you know that a person who jumps into a thread from out of nowhere spewing hate comments and offering nothing but criticism is often called a troll (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll)?
RadicalTaoist 11-04-04, 11:32 PM	I recommend that you put more ranks in diplomacy when you get your next level. :ayyyy!: I don't know, his penalty for low Int may not give him much to work with.
Moon-Lancer 11-05-04, 07:12 AM	By responding they way you have one might say the same thing back. If someone didn’t want said hate one would have let it lay. Besides I never personally attacked anyone on this form (at least on this particular form) :P At times just a bad mood can shift someone into a stereo type. And other times, said person may be and ok guy. Sorry I have been in a hateful mood since wedsday. I thought that the comment about America sucking and bush being the false prophet in the book he so blindly reads was a little harsh. Although partly true uncalled for in this time place. I apologize. I just didn’t appreciate the comment on my wisdom and intelligence? Please don’t judge on one post. Have any of you ever said something that you regret? Maybe weight a day and hear what i have to say back instead of everyone getting their fun little comments in. Its sort of hurts inside when people tell you your un intelligent and unwise. was Merlin not wise? Was he not Intelligent? Was he wise when he gave Nimua his power? Was he smart when he let his love steel his power and take all that he had including his only sun? Smart and Wise people can do very foolish and dumb things if the circumstances are right. hmmm.. Lets think about. Anyway I apologize so lets not have any more hurt full comments ok? LOVE AND PEACE! That Sorry back on um topic? A monk can be played many different ways but I believe that its fun to play the wise monk with a straw cone shaped hat, arms and legs bound in cloth wraps. or other times to play warring a orange robe of Buda or shoulin. Perhaps don’t call the monk a monk but call them a marshal artist. This way you can be the many different eastern fighter stereo types... YA!!!. also i just had a neat idea. If you allow a monk to be able to use a katana and wakashi as a monk weapon, they instantly become very close to a unarmored samurai.
amethal 11-05-04, 10:57 AM	My take on history, is that in the real world European monks provided a valuable service, in that they kept books and learning going during the Dark Ages. They also provided hostels for travellers, often in remote places, and a source of religion, aid and charity for the local peasants. (Apologies if this is unduly simplistic, or just plain wrong!) In a fantasy medieval setting, monks can still provide hostels and charity. However, their role as librarians is redundant - most D&D worlds appear to have almost universal literacy amongst the core races, and books seem to be very common. Instead, monks provide a means of protection and defence in remote areas. They do this by using martial arts, rather than by donning heavy armour and wielding greatswords. It is cheaper, requires less raw materials, craft time and maintenance time (so more time for practising and for meditation), and they have the discipline to make it work. Also, because a fantasy setting normally has magic, their training and self-discipline eventually enables them to gain access to supernatural powers. Therefore I don't see a fighting monk as being out of place in a "western medieval fantasy world". Unarmed combat need be no more exotic and out of place than armed combat is.
RadicalTaoist 11-05-04, 11:23 AM	s'cool Moon Lancer, I retract the statement. The thing is, these boards are totally politics-free, which is one of the things that make them very enjoyable. As such, I will throw the occasional barb to nudge people away from talking politics. I really wasn't offended by what you said, I simply feel that the politics-free atmosphere on the Wizard boards is sacrosanct and worth fighting for.
Moon-Lancer 11-05-04, 11:36 AM	Just an idea for a western monk, one could give them a form of bardic knolage. This way they can use it to know about many things as explained by how many books they read. take away all the monk weapons, except for staff (bow) and and make a list of non eastern weapons that would fit for a western monk. you could maybe give the vow of poverty right off the bat, or you could let them have some type of improvised weapon disarming (using nomal stuff to disarm) like a chair or such... but that may be to close to chucky chan. sadly the name monk is misleading it woudl seem. a monk must have a monistary and if you let them be a monk without that then they probably dont need to be lawfull. also just a fighter that uses fists isent really a "monk" becuse a monk im sure you know, means much more. personaly the first things that come into my head when i hear the word monk, is a fryer took charicter that drinks alot but has a mean punch, or shoulin monk who can kill with the right type of palm strike, can do cartweels, do backflips, runn along a wall for a few seconds, and charge and do a jump kick then proseed to kick butt. also i see a monk disarming people and if they attack getting a chance to grapple thier arm and use thier momentum aginst them.
Mr. the Hun 11-08-04, 11:16 PM	I'm DMing a campaign in which one of the main characters is a female monk. I'm very anti-Oriental when I play, (nothing against the people or the people who play it, I just prefer the classic European style) but she plays it expertly. Not only is she rude, boorish and not very well liked, she's not really a martial artist. She's more of a classic acrobatic rouge than anything else.
Spenalzo 11-09-04, 11:46 PM	I'm currently playing a member of the Sacred and Penitent Order of Saint Cuthbert - a monastery based upon bringing justice and/or retribution to miscreants everywhere. The idea being that most people are unable to stand up effectively to bullies and bad guys and the authorities are unable/unwilling to help in many cases. That's where the Sacred and Penitient Order comes in. No oriental flavor or flourishes at all. In fact, it's much more akin to an order of Paladins - we even believe in 'laying on hands', just not in the same way Pally's do. :D It makes for a nice counterpoint to the Paladin of Heronious (sp?) in our group - while he's preaching and preening and spouting off, I'm off whopping the baddies up side of the head.
dogo 11-15-04, 08:32 AM	The main reason the D&D Monk seems so Eastern is because Western Monks were generally peaceful guys that lived in monestaries. They just farmed, prayed, and took vows of silence... not exactly PC material...Except for the ones that weren't--the knightly orders--but they looked more like paladins and clerics than some sort of unarmed and unarmoured combat person.
Death Unlimited 11-15-04, 09:54 AM	In another thread I was asking for advice on how to work in amore Northern style unarmed combatant. The fellow has the Jotunbrud feat, stands nearly 2.5 meters tall, long hair, goatee, wears a big fur cloak, boots, some leather, has a nosering, bone pieces pierced thru his chest, tribal kinda tattoos and looks like a berzerker. Likes to drink with(outdrink) dwarves and armwrestle random people. He is loosely based on a cross between a viking and some of my northern european metal musician friends. :D Problem was his personality isn't very monkish(ie, lawful), so I have been working at different class combinations for him instead maybe. But original plan: monk. I also got tired of the whole grasshopper thing. I figure why not play a pretty hulking brute from some northern wasteland that happened to find the secret to all of this inner power stuff as well. (he wouldn't call it ki) Heck, i still dont know what i am doing with the guy. I just wish all good unarmed combat capabilities weren't railroaded into the 'monk' class...
Lord Zeb 12-17-04, 08:39 AM	Just found this thread...nicely done. In our homebrew: One of my groups' GMs had a bunch of dwarven slaves in an evil neighbouring kingdom learn the monkish arts as they were oppressed for generations with no access to weapons. Agoraphobic dwarven monks of a decidedly non-eastern flavor. I like the idea of a Special Forces type of character - able to sneak, scout and lay waste with just his hands & feet. Hmm... LN elf Monk 10 / Shadowdancer 10 (as spy, guard and general do-what-needs-to-be-done) could fit veeeery nicely in our goodly kingdom. Cheers, Zeb
Puskara 12-18-04, 12:00 AM	I have a player in my game with a female dwarven monk. She is an alchoholic and since she is still a child by thier standards she was sent to military school where the "monks" are retired warpriests that mainly take up the job because they miss combat or are bitter. Needless to say thier teaching methods are less than kind. They torture their students strait. Surviving in a place like that will produce a monk. =) Basically she is more streetfighter than anything. Of course the problem is that the D&D monk class is based on the asain stereotype so that presents problems. Puskara
Galdor_Ester 12-22-04, 11:59 AM	You are completely forgetting historical examples of non-oriental monks. In France they developed their own form of martial arts that is still practiced today. The monks (actually orders within the catholic church) practiced lives of solitude and where known for their fighting ability. They were forbidden from using the arms of the time by the church but defended themselves using every day weapons. Another approach would be to look to the origins of martial arts. It came about when oppresive armies subjegated a race and would not allow them to carry weapons on pain of death. For example. When the Japanese invaded the Okinawan islands the samurai forbid the locals to have weapons. They learned from the exercises that Indian mystics, and shaolin temples further development, to fight with their bare hands and to use common farm implements as weapons. Just because the best known monk is from our oriental past, doesn't mean they have to be from your fantasy world. Any kingdom that has been subjegated can have developed martial arts and the monk class. Religious groups would find this useful and could have spread it to other parts of your world so that now it is tied to specific churches anywhere. Hope that helps! Galdor Ester, he brings bad things to life!
Tealgorthian 12-23-04, 03:56 PM	My last Monk was an NPC Drow Monk. He was raised in your typical Priestess of Lloth home, and was little more than a slave. Often put into bad places by his sisters. Once they cut his wrists and nearly let him bleed to death before finally healing him, just to see what color he would turn. They took bets on it. He took to wearing bracesrs to cover the scars. Soon after, they started throwing him into a pit to fight various creatures, with nothing but a quarterstaff. After a bit, he started winning. So they took the quarterstaff away. In privite, he started praying to whatever god(dess) would listen, begging for help. (rolling randomly, I picked Mystra). Since he was illiterate, he couldnt read a spellbook, so she began infusing him with magic, granting him Foresight, and strength. Soon be began winning his fights, and eventually escaped to a Mystran Temple. It was an interesting monk for the PCs to deal with, to say the least ;p He was a prophetic monk, illiterate, and only proficent with his fists and a quarterstaff. Fun as hell though.
Ranslare 12-23-04, 06:10 PM	I recommend that you put more ranks in diplomacy when you get your next level. That was awesome. :D
Wrathamon 12-23-04, 11:12 PM	Well the Monk and D&D date back to 1975 with the 2nd expansion to the Original D&D game, Blackmoor. Along with the adding of the Monk to the game they also added the Assassin. Original Monk was from Blackmoor clicky (http://www.acaeum.com/DDIndexes/SetPages/SetScans/Supp2.jpg) btw these were subclasses.. or the 1st prestige classes. The Monk was a subset of the Cleric. A Human Cleric with a high enough Wisdom Strength and Dex could become Monks. You can tell that this class was based on those KUNG FU movies made by the Shaw Bros in the early 70s. All the way from the "quivering palm" technique they get at 13th level to the level titles of Grand Master of North Wind or Grand Master of Flowers. D&D Monks are inspired by the "Orient" or Asian culture. /end history lesson Now that doesnt mean that the current D&D monk or even the old "original" monk has to be a kung fu expert. I play a pugilist who thinks weapons are for panzies... he has improved trip, improved disarm and improved sunder to make sure his adversaries fight on his level. Heis a street thug, who happens to come from a very strict city where the laws are that weapons are outlawed. Good gaming :)
heinzk23111 12-24-04, 05:43 PM	I must say I like this thread. I too have reservations about using a oriental style monk. I just wanted something different but wasn't sure where to begin with it. But all of the good post of examples have inspired me. I hope those of you who posted don't mind buit I used some of those ideas and started a character concept. I'm using the forum form from these pages and would like some input on skill choices and Feat selection. Without further ado here is what I came up with in a quickie: Basic Character Concept Name: Race/ Gender/ Age: Half-Orc/Male/19 Alignment: Neutral Religion: Single Defining Class: Monk Description: Large man with a topknot of hair, wears loose clothing but likes to show his bare chest, large Arms/musculature and scars. His Orcish heritage is evident in the underbite and sharp teeth, large forehead, slightly pointed ears, and Dark skin. A number of scars are on his body from past fights both in competition and to save his own life on the streets. He wears them like a badge of honor. When adventuring he will wear spiked gauntlets and bracers. Carry a spiked chain and knife for weapons. Greatest Strength: Physical strength, focus in a fight, inner rage is harnessed. He has learned to harness his inner rage and focus on the fight at hand. He will not get distracted from his foe. He can take a beating and dish it out twice as hard. Greatest Weakness: Pride. He must be the strongest and toughest in his mind. Never wants to lose. Will take on what appears to be the strongest foe every time. Traits and Mannerisms: He's into physical perfection of his skills, he is not about philosophy. He wants to jump, climb, and swim better than anyone else. He takes competition seriously, fights to win. Basically a thug who feels that he can beat anyone in a brawl. He's loud, and a bit crude. But, allow him within reach of an opponent, and it’s just about over but the dice rolling. He is a loyal person to whom he considers friends. Modus Operandi: Spends most of his time training and enhancing his body, focusing his mind to reach an inner strength that he knows in his heart is there. Background: An orphan he grew up on the streets of Waterdeep. His great strength and menacing looks allowed him to become a well known brawler. He earned most of his money on bets, him fighting against any taker. He gained some fame in Waterdeeps underground for his fighting. While doing this he gained the attention of a local Thieves guild (Shadow rulers) who wanted him to take a fall to make more money. Though he agreed to do it when it came time to dive he couldn’t do it as a matter of self pride. He beat the opponent causing a great loss of money for the guild which had the fix in. The Thieves sent an assassin to kill him. Not knowing who, when or where the assassin would strike and knowing he no longer had any friends he left Waterdeep for good. He is looking to further harness his inner rage and focus it on his fighting skills. Quote: No one can beat me in a brawl…Nobody. Basic Character Mechanics Possible Class Arrangement(s): Monk Essential Abilities: Essential Skills: Intimidate, Essential Feats: improved unarm fighting, improved grappling, imp. Bull rush, concentration, Toughness??, Disarm?? Essential Spells: Essential Equipment: Spiked chain, Spiked gauntlets, Knife Signature Combat Maneuvers: Trip with the spiked chain, disarm, and pummel with a chain wrapped or spiked gauntlet.
Lord Zeb 12-24-04, 06:57 PM	:thumbsup: me like! Self-Pride as an explanation of some of the mystical powers is pretty sweet.
TheMightyMcClaw 12-25-04, 06:44 PM	So what you're trying to say... you're sick of the monk "yellowing up" your D&D game? Really, the only thing I find unfitting with the D&D monk and the rest of D&D is the fact that they have their own subset of exotic weapons. It's not as big of a cultural clash as all those scimitar-wielding druids or clerics who stomp around in full plate armor. I usually find that the monk class fits in a lot worse in my OA games than it does in my "normal" D&D games.
Nuntius128 12-26-04, 07:01 PM	So what you're trying to say... you're sick of the monk "yellowing up" your D&D game? I think that colors aren't the issue, but rather, obnoxious stereotypes that get in the way of normal roleplaying. How much of the post did you read, grasshopper? After all, the same argument can be made for big brutish barbarians that only live as big, stupid meat shields. And I think nobody else mentioned "Asian" as a negative.
Roxlimn 12-27-04, 02:32 AM	I agree with TheMightyMcClaw. The Monk in the PHB is not an Asian concept. It's a Western one. A Western mockery of what many ignorant or bigoted Westerners think Asians are - yellow, riddle-speaking, bow legged, tricksy boxers. Seriously, folks, if you want to find a more generic ground for unarmed specialists or even generalists, all you have to do is think beyond the confines of Barbarian Europe. Within Middle Age Europe, civilization and culture were at such an all-time nadir that it's difficult to find examples of accomplished civilized art, let alone sophisticated warfare and martial technique. With the influx of Asian influences, and partially under its own power, Europe eventually was brought up out of barbarism, but you need to think with a more global viewpoint in mind if you want to generalize the Monk into a class you can use with the mocking group of concepts people like to label as "Oriental." Suffice it to say that if you want to restrict yourself to Barbarian Europe, rule out Monk except as immigrants and wanderers from a more civilized and enlightened land. With a more global perspective in mind, the Monk as a class concept begins to not even make sense. In Asia, where civilization has survived since ancient periods and tribal forces were integrated into the cultures instead of destroying them, combined forces warfare was the norm since the time of Sun Tzu. In this sophisticated environment of learned fighting and specialized techniques, as a warrior, you were well advised to always keep a handful of unarmed techniques on hand in the ultimately all too probable event of your having to fight unarmed. At the least, Samurai and Chinese aristocrat warriors learned to disable their armed foes long enough to run, or else learned unarmed techniques designed to even the field - by disarming their foes. In this perspective, unarmed fighting isn't really anything super special. Every warrior learned how to do it to a lesser or greater extent because everyone evenutually had to fight unarmed. It's just like another weapon. Monks in this sense are specialists in the unarmed weapon just as some warriors specialize in spears, swords, and even warhammers. Most weapons known in Europe were also known and even usually used to greater proficiency in Asia, where the development of sophisticated fighting technique was not hampered by a continent wide age of poverty and ignorance. In truth, a great deal more specialized and generic weaponry of various levels of sophistication were developed in Asia and only later filtered through to Europe via merchants and wars. If you don't like Asian influences, prepare to get rid of the nunchaku, the composite bows, the sai, and the various modified daggers, to name but a few innovations. Anywho, back to genericizing the Monk. The development of unarmed fighting was earliest recorded originating from India (going into China), where legend had it, a traveling wise man of great wisdom developed a series of exercise techniques patterned after animal maneuvers designed to strengthen the body and galvanize the spririt. Prior to this, however, it is known that the rajahs and princes of India had been fighting internecine warfare, with techniques far advanced from everyone else at the time. IIRC, unarmed fighting from that period developed from two influences: the necessity to go unarmed and even unarmored in certain cities, as a precaution against duels and against assassination instituted by some princes; and secondly, because many of the first unarmed techniques flowed naturally from known concealable weapons such as a sort of metal whip and some forms of knife fighting. These forms of fighting were taught in academies and martial schools, both as an exercise and to familiarize aspiring warriors with basic body movements they would later on use to wield more complex weapons. Peasants were banned from even showing profiency in unarmed fighting, on pain of death, much as they were banned from carrying other sorts of weapons. In China, it is said that an Indian wise man came into the Monastery of Shaolin and seeing the poor state of their bodies, taught them exercises to strengthen their bodies and spirits. Many Chinese philosophies and religious influences came from across the deserts and mountains from India so it comes as no surprise that this one is just so recorded in legend. To the Chinese, the West is a source of enlightenment and spiritual purity. Of course, when the Chinese say "West", they meant mainly India and Persia. Europe was probably relegated to nothing more than "wildernesses beyond the West, where strange beings and monsters treaded." Anyways, this unarmed form of fighting influenced China in a different manner. China being an amalgamation of many cultures and peoples in one Empire, Shaolin exercises became known as a way local boys can get schooling and spiritual power, and later Shaolin Monks also became known for their martial ability - potent enough to deal with many ruffians and bandits. The Lawful tag on Monk probably stems from this tradition as the Shaolin Temple was adamant in its support for the Emperor. Its martial prowess was tested and proved many times when the Emperor called on aid to supress rebellions, warlords and bandits of various kinds and colors. It eventually became known as a center for great unarmed martial prowess as well as a source of enlightenment. The Wudan Monastery is a real place in China and to its credit, it developed tai chi (IIRC) and related chi energy based forms of martial arts as opposed to Shaolin's mainly animal and nature inspired techniques. Unlike in India where martial arts were reserved for the elite, in China you could be born of a peasant and eventually become the most personally powerful individual in the whole Empire. The widespread and large nature of the Empire also proved essential to the spread of martial art schools and variants, as it was virtually impossible for Imperial forces to do away with peasant-based martial arts, especially as Shaolin itself taught it to anyone who was worthy. Thus, was developed with world of the Xia - the martial arts warrior. While Imperial forces and Chinese aristocrats also adopted the unity of armed/unarmed forms as a single concept of personal conflict, what differentiates the Martial Arts Warrior as depicted in Hong Kong flicks is that they are not Imperial forces and because of their unique combat prowess, were also usually above the social fabric, or really, outside it. Their ability to flout authority whenever they pleased put them outside the realm of respectable Confucian society permanently, and yet their martial feats were usually known far and wide, and people from all walks of life flocked to them to champion their causes. They are almost literally D&D adventurers in most senses of the word, at least as far as I can see. Whereas a powerful warrior in Dark Ages Europe would eventually acquire responsibility and land or followers of a certain sort, these Xia rarely did and only did so under the guise of respectable normal folk, despite their daunting physical powers. They acquired powerful devices and such, sure, but their relationship as a group to ruling powers and wars of Empire were peripheral at best. Unarmed fighting as a form of sophisticated martial combat also developed in other Empires in Asia. Korea had the Hwarang and Thai warriors could employ Thai techniques which were eventually crystallized into the modern practice of Muay Thai. Japanese warriors themselves developed unarmed techniques as related to their weapon proficiencies. Karate and related weapons developed in Okinawa whereas swordsmanship and the related Aikido were developed and used by Samurai. Similar to the Chinese Empire in that they could not really impose Imperial will throughout the archipelago, the Japanese Empire spawned many forms of unarmed and related armed combat sometimes related to mainland techniques, sometimes not. To be sure, the many clans of the Iga and Koga developed their own brand of combat prowess and often each clan had unique techniques and even unique weapons to their names. The notion of an isolated village being defended by a ryu or even by a single Champion from Imperial taxes and influence is most definitely familiar to the Japanese mindset. I cannot vouch for the authenticity of this small entry of history, as I'm not with my books and therefore I cannot check on my facts. No doubt, many OA fans will be able to contribute more. The point here is that "Oriental" as a concept meaning "strange and unlikable" or "strange and distasteful" is only really comprehensible to a bigoted mind. Asians are people, too. We actually are very similar to Europeans in that we actually are human, which may be surprising to many people out there. As such, we have history and development, often far surpassing in terms of antiquity and continuity anything that Europe has to offer. We've been there. We've done that. In fact, we have an all-too-human history that can easily be used by anyone to fuel ideas for their preferentially white-colored games, if they so choose. None of the history I have related here is incomprehensible or outrageous. Possibly inaccurate on some points perhaps, but what does that matter when you're adapting material for your games? A strange being from a wartorn country introducing fighting concepts into your relatively peaceful Empire is not unique to unarmed fighting coming to Shaolin. In fact, that's how many of the then-sophisticated fighting concepts came from out of Sumeria to other nations of antiquity. Dwarves favor axes. Maybe they've developed axe-based unarmed techniques because axes are all too prone to be sundered in combat by an Orc, due the axe's vulnerable haft. Being Lawful creatures, they would most likely have unarmed fighting incorporated into schools or clans and most nonelites would have no access to them. Their styles would embody using brute force and powerful strikes, much like using an axe. Elves on the other hand, would develop unarmed techniques based on the sword, or inspired by animals or nature. Their techniques would emphasize grace and beauty over sheer martial efficiency. Perform (thelorin - elven for "kata") could be an art form that was really altogether useless in actual combat. Their styles could number in the hundreds, each elf seeking to differentiate his own individuality by trying to establish his own style. As with China, these styles would be taught to anyone who wanted, beyond the reach or probably even the concern of the Imperial Court. Humans could develop their own forms of martial combat based on religious and philosophical beliefs, having seen the sense of being schooled in unarmed techniques, even when you know how to use a sword. Their forms would be based on the teachings of their great leaders, or philosophical movements of the time, so you could have Normanist practitioners who emphasize efficiency of movement and brutal moves or Alexandrian technique which emphasizes the use of defense and superior training to neutralize numerical superiority. A Kordist practitioner could still be graceful, and yet still give priority to moves that look physically impressive, and use Strength, while an Ehlonnan martial artist could take inspiration from elves and use animal and nature inspirations to develop unique katas.
Lawless 12-30-04, 05:32 PM	Just passing through. I didn't see it mentioned so I thought I'd drop 2 coppers. The native american guy in "Brotherhood of the Wolf", I would consider a monk. Keeps the combat prowess and spirituality without drowning anyone standing nearby in psycho/pseudo philosophy and abstraction metaphors. Plus he just rocked. 2cps and microphone.
SigmaJargon 12-30-04, 05:59 PM	hmm... that makes me think. You could do an druidic flavored monk, a defender of nature who choses not to use manufactured weapons or armor. He stays close to nature and draws his monkish abilities from his communion with wildlife and wilderness. At DM's option, it might be fun to give him one of the superficial (read, not game stat affecting) drifts from the Geomancer PrC, like vines for hair or leopard spots or something.
Wrathamon 12-30-04, 06:32 PM	I am playing a druid monk in a campaign... it's a FR game so my character comes from the Shaar and is a tribal shaman warrior of the plains who has a wolf companion. Monk and druid fit the best with the concept I had. I did use Mani (Le Pacte des loups) as an archtype. He uses Handaxes and unarmed fighting along with some druid magic. I was going to go Ranger/Monk which would fit also.