Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi 07-14-07, 11:35 AM	So, I love the concept of the spellthief class, and I'd like to play one. Thing is, I've been struggling to come up with a character concept that also catches my interest. Here's some of the stuff I do have: - killoren spellthief. Of the school that arcane magic is unnatural. He considers himself a martyr, stopping the harm that magic can do, even if it costs him his soul (by taking the magic upon himself). Also possible as a spellthief/druid/arcane hierophant with Master Spellthief. Problem is, this concept wouldn't play well with the arcane caster(s) in the party. It would be neat to RP a gradual shift to at least accepting benevolent casters, but I worry about things before the transition. Tips for handling it? - spellthief/eye of xanathar. A noble of Waterdeep whose family has actually lost it all. He works for the Xanathar thieves' guild to hide this fact. Problem is, it's an evil concept. Also, I'd need to find a FR group to play in. And actually learn the world. - spellthief/monk. Cool to take the CMage sub so I can reflect spells. Underpowered. Or at least a bad spellthief. Please suggest any other concepts (with any rp tips for it). I'm also looking for inspiration for the source of my power. I don't feel like the godsblood route. I am intrigued by sorcerous heritage, but with the blood of some stranger creature. Such as: - illithid (savant). Doesn't appeal too much. - gibbering orb. An epic beholder relative. It steals spells from mages it eats. Possibly I was a slave, and learned as I awoke my own innate spellcasting from some other source. - suel lich. A body snatching ghost-lich thing. (Check crystalkeep templates). I like. But did the suel lich possess during conception or during the 9 month term (possibly sped up to 1 month, as victim age at 10 times the normal rate). - vampire. Not too inspiring, and a bit of a stretch. Life force stealing to spell stealing. Other ideas for how I learned to steal spells?
Fithero 07-14-07, 11:52 AM	I cant really think of a way in which spellthief abilities would be a natural ability of a creature. There are those Nirshu(sp?) things in the monster of faerun that suck the magic out of things... but how youd form a connection with one of those is beyond me. Another path is that perhaps you were studying to become a mage and you were the worst in the class. Not becuase you werent bright, you just couldnt get the hang of it. While you were practising with one of the other apprentices... you were fumbling around and he/she was making fun of your inability to cast a simple cantrip. You were overwhelmed with jealousy and anger, and struck out them, resenting their ability to cast spells better than you. Your not sure how, but they forgot their spell after the strike. You though the hit must have upset them or rattled their brain box a bit. But when your curiosity got the better of you and you tried it again, the same thing happened. It took you a while to figure out that you could then cast those same spells after you 'stole' them from others. This is probably not at all what your looking for, but its probably the best i can come up with without sitting down on the toilet and having a serious think about the subject. Hope it helps a little atleast. Peace
warwinner 07-14-07, 02:58 PM	Fell in with a bunch of rogues worshipping olidammara who [with olidammara's blessing] steal both money and spells and spellbooks of evil/tyrant casters to prevent them evildoing Part of an Illumian cabal who steal powerful magical words from memories and minds of humans and elves etc who they feel don't deserve to have these powerful and to them "holy" knowledge/words Mischievous dragonblooded creature which can divert magical energy and knowledge using innate draconic powers. Spellthief spell stealing methodology an essay As you snatch purse by distracting people, you steal spells also by distracting them [sneak attack] and the spell words/energy temporarily flows to one who is in contact with the victim Some spells can be cast on others or on yourself [cure wounds etc], but a spellthief forces a caster to cast the spell on the spellthief by attacking him and distracting him or touching him [willing target] When the spellcaster transfers the spell, the spellthief keeps it from activating with tremendous willpower and concentration and special techniques learnt, but can't hold it for too long before it dissipates or returns to the source
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi 07-15-07, 10:48 AM	Aha! Here's another one: a mage who studied the theory behind magic and how it works more than individual spells. This insight enables spelltheft. Good for a wizard/spellthief (Master Spellthief feat). And I definitely like the Illumian cabal. I might just try that. As for the dragonblooded creature, I could say a spelleater (Dragon Magic).
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi 07-18-07, 04:04 PM	Here's the idea I have so far. [Insert name here] is a member of the illumian-based group the Knights Verbatum/Keepers of the Word/Wardens of the Word and Thought, a group of spellthieves that keep powerful magical words out of the wrong hands. They undergo extensive studying into the nature of magic to allow spelltheft. At least, that is what they are told. The truth is more sinister. The higher powers within this group have cut a deal with a Suel Lich. The Suel Lich is allowed to possess illumians from time to time (until a new host is found. Magic prevents the illumians in the city from noticing the change). This periodic contact (especially during conception or pregnancy) has bred a knack for spelltheft into these illumians. The Keepers serve the Suel Lich to an extent - eliminating his rivals first. In exchange, the illumians are allowed to live. In fact they possess considerable freedom and are even allowed to choose most of their own targets. The Keepers are in fact mostly legit. So, how's it sound? Which of the three names for the group sounds best (most illumian)? I've never played one before. Suggestions for a name and my two sigils are also appreciated.
warwinner 07-19-07, 02:33 AM	Wardens of word and thought.For Names use the table on page81 here are some i randomly generated from it 1] davmalthak 2] calkurshah 3] eanyelskir 4] amklahsath 5] flanjahruth You could add something like "the wordtaker" or "the spellhound" or "wizardbane" etc As in "davmalthak the spellhound" As for sigils only uurkrau [uur & krau] seems fit for a spellthief [perfect fit IMHO]
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi 07-19-07, 06:40 PM	I suppose uurkrau then. I was looking for really neat sigil combination, but being less MAD does work. Vaulkrau did catch my eye as well. Magic and soul. Fits the sorcerous origins of my power. And I like the combo. That said, I did prefer Wardens of Word and Thought myself. And I definitely love "the spellhound" as a title. (Sidenote: the best title I've ever heard was "the Ridiculously Unnecessary. Officially knighted "Sir Ron the Ridiculously Unnecessary). Davmalthak or Calkurshah definitely appeal to me as a name. The first sounds better to me, but I'm uncertain of what kind of nickname I'll get there. Dav? I'm not fond of it.
Masonictribe 07-19-07, 08:21 PM	If your playing forgotten realms then this will help http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070606
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi 07-19-07, 08:35 PM	If your playing forgotten realms then this will help http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070606 Thanks. I did know of that article, and did consider it. But for some reason the godsblood explanation didn't inspire me. I think it's cool, but I don't want to use that backstory. For some strange reason. That said, rereading the line about "ingesting tainted water in large quantities" I think it might be cool to play a spellthief who got powers that way. By nearly drowning in the tainted water. Still, I think I'll keep with Davmalthak the Spellhound of the Wardens of Word and Thought. He's not for any particular campaign right now. I'm just getting the idea ready. Most likely it'll be another Planescape game.
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi 07-27-07, 04:41 PM	:bump: You know, just in case someone else has a suggestion.
JaiaDrottsingr 07-27-07, 10:24 PM	Another character, Omni? Wow. Well, you could always try the approach about wanting to steal more with less attention.
staalmannen 07-28-07, 01:36 AM	My take on spellthief would not include any supernatural background at all (not more than for a sorcerer or bard), rather that it is a certain method of casting which can be trained (his source of power is not the general "arcane pool" or the divine, but rather the minds around him). For obvious reasons this technique is not taught at wizard academies, rather in secret guilds or societies, often with a rather "shady" objective. From a practical point of view, I could think of the actual spell stealing like taking the techniques of a con artist one step further (you know, three cups and something under one of them, guessing numbers etc...). This specialized con artistry plays with the mind so much so that it opens it up for the spell thief to tap in on other peoples powers. _________ Another thing I was thinking of. From an RP perspective a spellthief would be a great starting point for an ur priest. 1) Does spellthief count as caster class (1/2 class levels count to ur priest)? 2) Does also levels in previous caster class taken after ur priest count for ur priest caster level? (lets say: spellthief 10 - ur priest 2 - spellthief 8 --> ur priest caster level = 11?)
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi 07-29-07, 04:16 PM	Another character, Omni? Wow. Well, you could always try the approach about wanting to steal more with less attention. It's not because mine keep dying! Truth is, I don't get much play time in. So whenever an idea catches my fancy, I try to flesh it out. Would you mind reminding me what other character concepts of mine you've come across?
JaiaDrottsingr 07-31-07, 11:07 AM	It's not because mine keep dying! Truth is, I don't get much play time in. So whenever an idea catches my fancy, I try to flesh it out. Would you mind reminding me what other character concepts of mine you've come across? About twenty in the Quote you Character thread. They all seem to involve dying, or some statement saying, "Third and last session." You did explain that your DM is, "considerate" because he knows you like character concepts. I don't care, the quotes and concepts are still good, especially the *goldfish* one. If I had a player like you, I'd allow you to write up backstories the entire session and only ask your opinion when your character's life depended on it, or just to annoy you. Sure, Jammaca dies all the time, but he used up a miracle spell so that he could always be instantly resurrected when he died. I only allowed it because stopping through a dungeon to go back to the town and get him rezzed seven times in one session was beginning to annoy me.
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi 07-31-07, 04:40 PM	About twenty in the Quote you Character thread. They all seem to involve dying, or some statement saying, "Third and last session." You did explain that your DM is, "considerate" because he knows you like character concepts. I don't care, the quotes and concepts are still good, especially the *goldfish* one. If I had a player like you, I'd allow you to write up backstories the entire session and only ask your opinion when your character's life depended on it, or just to annoy you. Sure, Jammaca dies all the time, but he used up a miracle spell so that he could always be instantly resurrected when he died. I only allowed it because stopping through a dungeon to go back to the town and get him rezzed seven times in one session was beginning to annoy me. I don't even remember any of this. Are you positive you're not thinking of another Omni?
JaiaDrottsingr 07-31-07, 09:35 PM	I don't even remember any of this. Are you positive you're not thinking of another Omni? Possibly. I doubt it, though.
JaiaDrottsingr 07-31-07, 09:38 PM	Post: Wrong account, same avatar.
Nivalldier 08-02-07, 07:24 PM	So, I love the concept of the spellthief class, and I'd like to play one. Thing is, I've been struggling to come up with a character concept that also catches my interest. Funny thing, Omni, I was just working on a backstory to a character that includes just that. Here's the story: In my DM's Mystara world, the dwarven god Dumathoin has been missing for some 10,000 years, since right after the Gods got together to smite the planet to eradicate a still-unknown threat (known to the DM, not known to us). Many Stone Beard generations have come and gone, trying to determine where the Keeper of Mysteries disappeared, and who's strong enough to keep him imprisoned. My Dwarven Cleric/Paragnostic Apostle (named Nivalldier, oddly enough) gains his spells from Moradin, as a sort-of Dumathoin substitute. Nivall's making progress in solving the disappearance. Being an author in the real world, I can already imagine the future: Eventually, maybe ten or twenty years down the line, Nivall will find that his loyalty to his deity will conflict with his membership in the Paragnostic Assembly. He trusts that with blood being thicker than water (and Dwarven blood even more so), Dumathoin will forgive him for holding to the P.A. tenant that he must share every secret and scrap of knowledge with them. And since Nivalldier will be instrumental in finding a way to get the dwarven god released, Dumathoin will have to be understanding when he discovers that Nivall had to share some secrets with them, in order to gain their assistance to free him, right? Nope. Dumathoin is guardian of the Secrets Under the Mountain, and a jealous guardian at that. For sharing those secrets, he pulls away all of the powers that Nivalldier had so painstakingly earned. And after that, the Assembly is furious that he won't be able to provide any additional secrets, so they kick him out as well. With nowhere to turn for his spells, and with the many enemies made along the way still out to get him, he resorts to using Spellthief skills to power the few defenses he needs to keep himself alive. I'm figuring that with hundreds of years of adventuring, he's run into at least a few characters that can drain spells, steal or wrack spellcasters, that sort of thing. Nivall discovers a unique rationale for drawing out spells: Inhabiting the darker regions of Specularum are the drunk, the drugged and the occasionally passed-out. Whenever he finds a spellcaster that is not fully protecting his mental faculties, Nivall reaches in and pulls out a few spells that won't be missed. Since most spellcasters, divine and otherwise, re-learn their spells each morning, anything still remaining just before they pass out won't be used, and probably won't be missed. He waits until late at night, and draws out the ones he'll need for the next day. Not enough to hurt or injure the, um, **volunteer**, but there have been times he's been tempted to pull out an 8th or 9th-level spell, just to see if he could do it without getting caught. As a small touch, he keeps a pet undead creature in his quarters that he attempts to turn every morning. He never has any success, of course, but he keeps trying. The eternal optimist that he is, he still believes that Dumathoin will eventually give back his divine abilities. And there are still unsolved questions about the god's disappearance that Nivalldier plans on uncovering. Perhaps they'll win him back into Dumathoin's good graces. But even if they don't, they'll help satisfy that empty place inside where Nivall's Faith used to be. I expect that, somewhere down the line, he'll be forced into defending himself in real spellcasting combat, and being hard-pressed, he'll wind up doing spellstealing for real (rather than in the dark of night). Will he have any success, and more importantly, will he feel guilty about it, or empowered... This sorta what you had in mind, Omni?
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi 08-03-07, 05:03 PM	Funny thing, Omni, I was just working on a backstory to a character that includes just that. Here's the story: In my DM's Mystara world, the dwarven god Dumathoin has been missing for some 10,000 years, since right after the Gods got together to smite the planet to eradicate a still-unknown threat (known to the DM, not known to us). Many Stone Beard generations have come and gone, trying to determine where the Keeper of Mysteries disappeared, and who's strong enough to keep him imprisoned. My Dwarven Cleric/Paragnostic Apostle (named Nivalldier, oddly enough) gains his spells from Moradin, as a sort-of Dumathoin substitute. Nivall's making progress in solving the disappearance. Being an author in the real world, I can already imagine the future: Eventually, maybe ten or twenty years down the line, Nivall will find that his loyalty to his deity will conflict with his membership in the Paragnostic Assembly. He trusts that with blood being thicker than water (and Dwarven blood even more so), Dumathoin will forgive him for holding to the P.A. tenant that he must share every secret and scrap of knowledge with them. And since Nivalldier will be instrumental in finding a way to get the dwarven god released, Dumathoin will have to be understanding when he discovers that Nivall had to share some secrets with them, in order to gain their assistance to free him, right? Nope. Dumathoin is guardian of the Secrets Under the Mountain, and a jealous guardian at that. For sharing those secrets, he pulls away all of the powers that Nivalldier had so painstakingly earned. And after that, the Assembly is furious that he won't be able to provide any additional secrets, so they kick him out as well. With nowhere to turn for his spells, and with the many enemies made along the way still out to get him, he resorts to using Spellthief skills to power the few defenses he needs to keep himself alive. I'm figuring that with hundreds of years of adventuring, he's run into at least a few characters that can drain spells, steal or wrack spellcasters, that sort of thing. Nivall discovers a unique rationale for drawing out spells: Inhabiting the darker regions of Specularum are the drunk, the drugged and the occasionally passed-out. Whenever he finds a spellcaster that is not fully protecting his mental faculties, Nivall reaches in and pulls out a few spells that won't be missed. Since most spellcasters, divine and otherwise, re-learn their spells each morning, anything still remaining just before they pass out won't be used, and probably won't be missed. He waits until late at night, and draws out the ones he'll need for the next day. Not enough to hurt or injure the, um, **volunteer**, but there have been times he's been tempted to pull out an 8th or 9th-level spell, just to see if he could do it without getting caught. As a small touch, he keeps a pet undead creature in his quarters that he attempts to turn every morning. He never has any success, of course, but he keeps trying. The eternal optimist that he is, he still believes that Dumathoin will eventually give back his divine abilities. And there are still unsolved questions about the god's disappearance that Nivalldier plans on uncovering. Perhaps they'll win him back into Dumathoin's good graces. But even if they don't, they'll help satisfy that empty place inside where Nivall's Faith used to be. I expect that, somewhere down the line, he'll be forced into defending himself in real spellcasting combat, and being hard-pressed, he'll wind up doing spellstealing for real (rather than in the dark of night). Will he have any success, and more importantly, will he feel guilty about it, or empowered... This sorta what you had in mind, Omni? That's amazing. Beautiful even.
Nivalldier 08-08-07, 02:49 AM	That's amazing. Beautiful even. Glad you liked it. Even after thirty-plus years, I still believe real D&D -- not that "pump up this character so it can take on a whole army single-handed" optimization stuff -- can uncover as much inner truth about a person as anything short of ESP. And no helms needed. (:^D) -- Nivall