Post/Author/DateTime	Post
LiXinjian 01-05-05, 02:26 AM	The Easiest Way to Roleplay A commentary by LiXinjian Sometimes, it's not always easy comming up with interesting quirks and behaviours for a character. Sometimes, no matter what character creation method you choose, you can't seem to hit on a concept or on a particularity for your character. What's making her unique? Why does he go on adventures? Why is she willing to risk her neck for a few gold pieces? Those are some of the most classic questions you can ask yourself to develop a character's personality, and sometimes, they simply don't provide a satisfactory answer. Sadly, many players seem to be in this situation, as evidenced by the number of requests for help we see on these boards. How often do we see threads that essentially read out like this: "I don't know how my character would act" or even "please help me roleplay my character"? All too frequently. Some people simply are better at using this method than others, and there is no shame in asking for help and recognizing that fact. Sometimes, even the "pros" hit the wall. I don't know if I would consider myself a pro, but I do have some facility in this domain. And at times - one of the precious few times when I've actually had the chance to play and not DM a game - I have been forced to drop a promising character simply because I couldn't find an edge to it. As a DM I award important experience points for roleplaying, so I carefully observe and ponder over the roleplaying qualities of my players. What I hate the most is the meta-thinking aspect some of them display. How often have I heard: "No, I'm can't cast that spell: it's a 5th-level spell and I'm only a 7th-level wizard" when a simple "No, I can't cast that spell: it's too complicated, too tricky. It requires skills beyond my capacity.. for now" would have done so much better? I've realised that oftentimes, the simplest way to roleplay is simply to make the game mechanics transparent. Make them disappear. Don't say your character is bull rushing his opponent. Say he's grabbing the opponent by the waist and attempts to push him back. Naturally, effortlessly, the DM will mentally convert your action into "okay, that's esentially a bull rush". Try to be as precise and clear as possible. If need be, gently remind the DM that it's not an unarmed attack you want to make, but a bull rush. Misunderstandings are always possible, especially at first. The point is: you may occasionnaly fail in making the mechanics transparent, but at least, most of the times you should be able to pull it off. And game mechanics don't stop with the hard rules of actions you can take in combat. They also cover both the character creation and "development" processes in that they provide insight and hard facts on what abilities a character develops as he gains experience. Why not see these abilities for the roleplaying tools they are? Class features are the most rewarding aspects of a character you can roleplay in this fashion. A second level barbarian, for instance, gains Uncanny Dodge. That's a fact, and one you can use to roleplay, too. Therefore, don't point out to your DM that your second level barbarian retains his Dexterity bonus to AC even if he's been caught flat-footed. Say he might have been taken by surprise, but that doesn't prevent him from keeping his vitals safely out of reach of the rogue's dagger. The basics of this method are simple: your character doesn't have access to his character sheet. He doesn't know he just gained a level, acquired Uncanny Dodge or improved his saves. He might be the first one surprised that he managed to dodge that great ball of magical fire, since he had been steadily caught in their blasts for months... and has the burnt scars to prove it. You can even have your character attempt to use class features he doesn't have yet. After all, if you think about it, why does a 6th-level bard suddenly start to weave suggestions into his bardic song? In terms of game mechanics, the players understand he just acquired the ability. But why did the character just think about it? Why is it the first time that he's done it? What precludes he attempted this stunt before, only to fail miserably? Afterall, practice makes perfect and it's kind of strange when a character suddenly starts to do things without ever having practiced them. If you are willing to roleplay your character to the bones, building up to your class features in this fashion can be immensely rewarding. The game mechanics assume your character does this kind of experimentation around the campfire, in the background, but that doesn't mean it must remain in there all of the time. In some instances, this method is probably needlessly confusing, or things are simply too hard to put into words. That's alright: the game mechanics are there to fall back to. The background is where they belong. Just don't place the mechanics at the forefront of your gaming moments: they anull the suspension of disbelief too easily. Let them slip back into the shadows, unnoticed, until the time comes when you must bring them back to the light to solve some issue or another. So, the next time you find yourself hitting the brick wall with the usual roleplaying questions, try this one out for size. It might not be appropriate for each and every gaming groups out there, but it could very well work out for you. It's great fun, and it adds immensely to the "mysterious feel" of the gaming sessions, as you cannot always know for sure what your fellows can or cannot do. It's generally very immersive. Feel free to reply to this thread with constructive criticism or address some issues you perceive about this method. It might also be interesting if some of you wanted to translate game mechanics into "real-life" words.
DwarvinJedi 01-05-05, 05:23 PM	I like it, plus it kind of introduces a minor training aspect to the game, which is purely roleplay, and not mandatory, like a fighter who wants to take EWP(bastard sword) next level trying to use it this level, at a -4, but he is slowly getting used to the weight of the sword. other than that, it is still cool, especially describing your actions works wonders, it makes combat more roleplay, and more interesting. Thank You for this post. From a hack-n-slasher who got tired of hacking and slashing.
Persephone Imytholin 01-05-05, 11:14 PM	The other benefit of such an approach is in a split party. It's far more interesting to watch and listen to I creep around, following the wall to stay in the shadows. Once I get past where he could see me, I'll quietly drop down from the wall, then wait a few seconds to make sure no-one's seen me. Then I'll creep riiight up behind him, and use my blackjack to put him to sleep... than it is to wait for someone to go I move silently and hide in shadows. I climb down, move silently to get behind him, and sneak attack with a sap.
LiXinjian 01-05-05, 11:18 PM	Well, thank you for your comment.. and the only one so far! ;) (edit: Persephone wrote one too, while I was typing this... thx) Of course, the method is intended for mature roleplayers who focus on character development. After all, you are sub-optimal if you use a weapon you are not proficient with, and not all players are willing to do that. It's very immersive because you are thinking in character most of the time, and doing things the way your character would do them. *I* like it very much but I understand we each get our kicks from different aspects of the game. Just thought I'd share this with others.
Maniacal_Cackle 01-06-05, 12:34 AM	Thank you. As a former hack and slasher trying to get into role-playing, this was a very good read. I think you made some excellent points, especially since they used some beliefs I already had (like I want to move rules to the background, and as a knowledgable DM in terms of rules, I think I should get my players to do this.) And as a player, I think that this would make my game experience a great deal more interesting. Edit: Oh, one more thing (for now anyway ^_^) I think if you were just starting off, you could perhaps also clarify what you were doing (though the terms I was thinking of it in was playing online, in which case you could put it in parentheses) Just to get into the rhythm of it... Just my 2 cents.
LiXinjian 01-06-05, 06:12 AM	**Double Post**
LiXinjian 01-06-05, 06:15 AM	Edit: Oh, one more thing (for now anyway ^_^) I think if you were just starting off, you could perhaps also clarify what you were doing (though the terms I was thinking of it in was playing online, in which case you could put it in parentheses) Just to get into the rhythm of it... Definetely. The method does seem daunting at first. It's not something we usually do, either as DMs or Players. Therefore, until everybody is accustomed to it, clarifications are a must. Perhaps to avoid voicing those clarifications out loud, a player could write them on pieces of paper in a large-enough font that the DM can see them from his side of the table. Other players who don't happen to be watching the player concerned with the action wouldn't hear about game mechanics, and they certainly wouldn't read the clarifications. Kinda like a boxing event: instead of the announcer calling the second round, there's a bikini-clad gal going 'round the ring with the number of the round painted on a piece of cardboard. To save time, each player could come up with his own panels, personalized for his character's skills. DMs can also assist by performing those skills the characters would do automatically without asking the player about it first. Say the rogue finds a gem: he's sure to try an appraise it. Therefore, the DM automatically rolls the dice and tells the results to the player in immersive terms. No need to bring up the game mechanics there by asking "Okay, Appraise check please?". But there are many levels of immersion that can be achieved with this method and your suggestions, guys. Using even only one of the aforementioned techniques, a gaming group can really see improvements on its immersion level.
Trydan 01-11-05, 04:34 AM	A good article; I've added it to the Links section of the FAQ (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=1159097) . The other benefit of such an approach is in a split party. It's far more interesting to watch and listen to ... Agreed completely. That's an excellent point, Persephone. As an additional comment, you can increase the role-playing by pushing the dice rolls behind the DM's screen. Make sure that the DM has up-to-date stats held by paperclip to the inside of his or her DM's screen, of course.
LiXinjian 01-11-05, 08:24 AM	I've read somewhere about a DM who's made a small, square cut at the bottom of his screen. Players insisting on rolling their own die rolls can do so, and the result is hidden from their occular organs. A bit too much of a hassle for me, but some might find the idea interesting. A special thank you to whoever it was who made this suggestion.
Persephone Imytholin 01-11-05, 08:35 AM	Ocular organs? Please tell me that you call them "eyes" every. single. other. time. That's "eyes", not oculi or oculars or orbs or anything else like that.
LiXinjian 01-11-05, 09:39 AM	Ocular organs? Please tell me that you call them "eyes" every. single. other. time. That's "eyes", not oculi or oculars or orbs or anything else like that. Eyes? That's too simple, too predictable. To grab attention, try peppering your conversations with idioms and expressions such as these: I dare you to look me straight in the ocular organs and try to keep a straight face. I'm telling you!! I saw it why my own two ocular organs! This bright light is hurting my ocular organs. You have beautiful ocular organs, you know. The ocular organs are the window into one's soul. It's right in front of your ocular organs!! Beauty is in the ocular organ of the beholder. Then we'll move on to replace the far too common and boring "ears" with natural acoustic apparel (NAA). As in: A loathsome natural acoustic apparel-wig A nice natural acoustic apparel-ring My natural acoustic apparels are ringing... etc. (okay, time to go to bed now...)
LiXinjian 01-11-05, 09:41 AM	Ocular organs? Please tell me that you call them "eyes" every. single. other. time. That's "eyes", not oculi or oculars or orbs or anything else like that. I meant that the result of the roll could have been discerned by senses other than sight. Perhaps they could have *smelled* the result, instead of seeing it. The DM screen wouldn't help against that. :) (okay, okay, enough of this madness. I'm really going to bed now.)
Persephone Imytholin 01-11-05, 09:47 AM	Now imagine the emo!goth character waxing poetic about their luminous opalescent oculars. Time how long it takes you to start throwing dice at the player.
Trydan 01-12-05, 05:50 AM	Now imagine the emo!goth character waxing poetic about their luminous opalescent oculars. Time how long it takes you to start throwing dice at the player.37.4 seconds. However, in a reciprocal experiment, it took 11.9 seconds for other players to start throwing dice at me. And then later in the evening, I didn't even get past the word "occular", and I certainly hadn't started the stopwatch, before someone grabbed a handful of d6's and hurled them across the table. :rolleyes: :D ;)
Persephone Imytholin 01-12-05, 06:24 AM	There you go. I should post a Mary Sue Litmus Test here one day, methinks.
Need_A_Life 01-30-05, 07:11 AM	37.4 seconds. However, in a reciprocal experiment, it took 11.9 seconds for other players to start throwing dice at me. And then later in the evening, I didn't even get past the word "occular", and I certainly hadn't started the stopwatch, before someone grabbed a handful of d6's and hurled them across the table. :rolleyes: :D ;) LOL! Just LOL.... I can't blame them though, begin using latin in EVERY sentence and you'll cut that time in half ;) .
Persephone Imytholin 01-30-05, 08:24 PM	ocular != latin oculus = latin
Qwanga 02-26-05, 03:49 PM	I don't think I can play the way the original poster suggests. 1) By focusing on the mechanics of the game the way you have, you're defeating the purpose of roleplaying. It's just exercising your vocabulary. The essential question in roleplaying is why, not how. 2) I like clarity. Using words like "ocular orbs", although I realize it was used in an out-of-game context, just confuses things. It's an affectation that grates. 3) I like brevity - especially if I'm the DM. Just tell me what your player is doing. Don't make me read your mind. Combat takes long enough to resolve as it is without having to decode your intentions. 4) I like to roll dice. I like knowing that I got 27 on my appraise skill check. My suggestions for roleplaying: a) Understand the why first, then the how. Once you know why your character acts the way he acts, then you can lay on the style. b) Err on the side of doing something. Inaction is dull - keep the game (and your character) moving and doing. c) Don't play a quiet character. A quiet, contemplative, brooding character may be fun to read about, but it's boring at the game table. d) Be passionate. It's easier to roleplay someone who's got strong opinions. e) Pick your spots. Roleplaying the purchase of a 50' coil of rope is a drag on the proceedings. Save your soliloquy for your audience with the king.
LiXinjian 02-26-05, 04:16 PM	1) By focusing on the mechanics of the game the way you have, you're defeating the purpose of roleplaying. It's just exercising your vocabulary. The essential question in roleplaying is why, not how. In my opinion, the essence of roleplaying is to play a role. To achieve this, we picture ourselves in a different setting, in a different time, doing things we normally would never be able to do. It is important to let go of game terms in order to forget about the game and bask in the atmosphere. Hence why most game terms should be banned as much as possible from the table in my opinion. So I feel the How is as important as the Why. 2) I like clarity. Using words like "ocular orbs", although I realize it was used in an out-of-game context, just confuses things. It's an affectation that grates. Indeed. THAT was me exercising my vocabulary. But it's not a good idea to use such language around the gaming table.. unless that's a trait posessed by your character. 3) I like brevity - especially if I'm the DM. Just tell me what your player is doing. Don't make me read your mind. Combat takes long enough to resolve as it is without having to decode your intentions. For most gaming groups, these things should become fairly easy to "translate" as people get used to them. But as was mentioned, it is not for everyone, nor does it mean it's even a good idea. But it is *an* idea for those willing to go even further. 4) I like to roll dice. I like knowing that I got 27 on my appraise skill check. Well, the DMG mentions skills that the DM should consider doing in secret, behind the screen. Whether a given group abides or not by those "rules" is irrelevant. Yes, I suppose it is fun to know when you rolled high, but oftentimes the alternative (NOT knowing you rolled high and discussing with your party members about sharing the loot when you are not sure you are right!) can be even more fun. If you have never tried it, I encourage you to: it is really fun, especially with evil groups when no one is certain whether he's ripping the other off, or being ripped off by that same person! Little bits of paper go a long way to encourage this kind of fun. Again, mix and match and pick whichever method your group prefers. My suggestions for roleplaying: a) Understand the why first, then the how. Once you know why your character acts the way he acts, then you can lay on the style. b) Err on the side of doing something. Inaction is dull - keep the game (and your character) moving and doing. c) Don't play a quiet character. A quiet, contemplative, brooding character may be fun to read about, but it's boring at the game table. d) Be passionate. It's easier to roleplay someone who's got strong opinions. e) Pick your spots. Roleplaying the purchase of a 50' coil of rope is a drag on the proceedings. Save your soliloquy for your audience with the king. That's certainly good advice. As for e), I might add to go with the flow: sometimes it CAN be fun to roleplay a trip to the market. Just don't do it all the time. But if you and your DM instinctly feel the urge to roleplay the purchase, by all means do! Sometimes, trips to the market give the DM opportunities to drop clues, rumours and other plot elements.
Trydan 12-01-05, 07:29 AM	:bump:
hysteresis 12-01-05, 02:43 PM	I've played in a game where the DM thought exactly like LiXinjian and it did make for a very fun game and nice roleplaying. In fact he enforced the rule that we couldn't use any abilities which we didn't try out before getting to the corresponding level. Even if we got to the level before having a chance to try it out, it simply didn't work until we tried & failed a couple of times. Fighters had to go to some training facilities or duel each other a little around the campfire if we were not near a town, wizards had to have time to study, etc. There's nothing wierder than a fighter starting to whirlwind everyone one day, like someone just threw a switch. In fact our wizard made a special effort at roleplaying. He would make up simple and short sentences for all his spells like fireball --> "engulf my enemies in flame...", nothing fancy. But then he'd translate them into latin and write them all out on a sheet of paper along with the level of the spell. When he started to cast a spell, he didn't say what spell he was casting but just recited the latin sentence. He also waved his hands in the air (for the somatic component) but part of the somatic component was to show the level of the spell to the DM. So the DM would quickly go down the list, checking all the spells of the level he'd just shown, find the one that matched the words coming out of his mouth and start describing the effects. This way, the others around the table got a realistic effect of spell casting, instead of: "I cast fireball at that orc", "OK, roll 5d6"...
hysteresis 12-01-05, 02:49 PM	Well, the DMG mentions skills that the DM should consider doing in secret, behind the screen. Whether a given group abides or not by those "rules" is irrelevant. Yes, I suppose it is fun to know when you rolled high, but oftentimes the alternative (NOT knowing you rolled high and discussing with your party members about sharing the loot when you are not sure you are right!) can be even more fun. I've played with a DM who had a solution for people who shouldn't see the results of thier checks but liked to roll their own dice, to have that feeling of "determining their fate themselves": He cut a rectangular section off of the bottom of the DM screen, about an 1.5 inches high and 2 inches wide. When a roll had to be made, he'd have the player roll the dice through the hole. This way the player would have rolled it but only DM could see the result.
Daxen 11-16-06, 04:13 PM	There are certain rolls which the player should not know the numerical result for. In fact most applications of skills fall into this category. It is irresistable to many players to ignore exceedingly good or exceedingly bad rolls. It has the same effect as, "the jury will disregard that testimony". If you want to know your result that is what take 10 and take 20 are for. Of course you "like" knowing you got a 27 on your appraise check, because it allows you to play accordingly. It does not however accurately reflect what is going on.
LiXinjian 11-16-06, 07:20 PM	As I mentioned earlier (that is, over a year earlier!), it gets really fun when you have several dishonest or money-oriented people trying to Appraise the value of the big gem they just found. The DM rolls the checks behind his screen, and hands over to each appraising players a piece of paper with the estimated value of the gem. So you have a player who thinks the gem is worth 100gp, another who's certain it's worth 500gp (and willing to trade it for a minor magical item), and yet another who believe it's worth 50gp. And all argue and try to share equally without anyone really knowing how much it's worth. The players love it. And while they are arguing, the DM can review his notes on the upcoming encounter, to see how many Ogre Mages have been attracted by their argument. ;) Of course, once someone has a +10 modifier to his Appraise check, the fun is over. Daxen: Your point is certainly valid and true. Alas, I feel the DM has already plenty of job to do that it would be seldom practical to add to his burden by having him throw every skill check die. That's why limiting those DM Checks to the Appraise, Move Silently, Search and other few skills probably is the best option for most games.