The life of a con artist [Archive] - Wizards Community

The life of a con artist [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Of the Quantum
03-16-05, 02:05 AM In my current campaign, i'm running a rogue... though, he's not the typical sort.

My rogue is a con artist, a rogue who thinks thieving and killing is below him - he'd much prefer to have the stuff handed over, and doesn't think too highly of plain thieves, despite the fact he is incredibly greedy and powerhungry. (despite, so far in the campaign, his travels in Waterdeep have forced him to rob 3 locations and kill 2 people.. but such lengths are acceptable if needed to save his own life - though, he becomes quite irritable over the situations)

Anyway, he's begun as a Chaotic Neutral character, however, as i'm playing him, I'm starting to get a more Lawful Evil feel from him. What i'm trying to figure out is, how might be a good way to shift his alignment?

-My plan for him, as it stands, is to take him to 3rd level as a rogue, and hopefully, at this point, have him switched to Lawful Evil, allowing me to take the feat "Disciple of Darkness" from the Book of Vile Darkness, but have it be in relation to Cyric (approved by DM), then, when he reaches lvl 4, give him a level in Warlock (idea is that through his bond, he's gotten that taint in his blood which gives him the link to eldritch magic).

-For the next 3 levels, I am thinking of then crossing into a Human Paragon (idea behind it being that Cyric has granted him the chance to prove himself as a follower, the reward being greater ability in his 'art' (namely the +2 charisma I could give him at level 3))

-Once I reached 8th level, I would have the 10 ranks in Bluff to finally cross-class into a Disciple of Beelzabul (Book of Vile Darkness), however, we'll be running it as a Disciple of Cyric, for the next 10 levels, then, from 18-20, going back to Warlock.

My character is an odd sort. He's a human rogue that doesn't have disable device, and isn't very up there in hide or move silently or sleight of hand.. however, at level 2, he's already got +15 to Bluff.. which is what he specializes in.

STR: 15
DEX: 19
CON: 14
INT: 16
WIS: 15
CHA: 17
Feats are - Quicker than the Eye, Charlatan, & Persuasive.
Flaws are - Shaky & Frail
Traits are - Dishonest & Polite
Major Skills are:
- Bluff: +15
- Disguise: +12
- Intimidate: +12
- Diplomacy: +9

He wears courtier's clothing, a chain shirt hidden below, while wieding a dagger cane (varient of the sword cane my DM and I worked out.. allows me to deal subdual with the cane, as it is bamboo-like material, and then draw the dagger in case it becomes necessary to actually deal real damage)

So, aside from ideas on how to shift his alignment all the way from Chaotic Neutral to Lawful Evil, but, also, how the character's premise sounds to people outside of my own head =P
ashcat_lt
03-16-05, 03:45 PM I like the idea. In fact, I'm working on a character for a campaign that may be coming up soon. She's a prostitute who loves to control and manipulate men (and anybody else for that matter). I'm going a slightly different direction with her. I've got Int, Cha, and Dex as high scores, in that order. She's starting as a human rogue, maxing out the Cha skills. I was looking at Persuasive and Trustworthy at 1st level. Then maybe 3rd level she'll jump out to sorceror for a minute and grab the Alluring feat. I was going to go back and forth between sorc and rogue for a while, taking Spell Focus (enchantment) asafp, but now you've pointed out this Disciple PrC, and I may have to wait on SF, grab Disciple of Darkness at 6th, and be ready to jump into the PrC by 8th. I'm starting her as evil, and never really thought of her as the kind of person who would sell her soul to the devil. She wants to own souls for herself, after all. However, she's been selling herself all her life, and there is no higher bidder... If I can sell myself to the Lord of Lies and never have to touch another stinking sailor on shore-leave again (except maybe for my own amusement)? Very interesting. And it shouldn't be too hard to meet that "sacrifice" requirement. Probably be able to get the victim to pay me to come to his house. End up leaving with everything valuable he has, AND my Int bonus to Bluff checks.

By the way, this might also be a good 1 Lvl dip for an evil rogue/invisible blade feinter.
Of the Quantum
03-16-05, 04:50 PM Yeah, Tongue of the Devil is such a nice 1st level ability, and the King of Lies ability is definitely something i'd be willing to stick to level 10 for.

My char, set up as it is, once he gets to level 20 would have... 28 Charisma.. and.. over +40 Bluff, with the ability to take a 10.... *shudders* Also.. the reason i'm planning it out to level 20 is because I plan on using him as an NPC in a campaign i'm going to be DMing.. as the big bad boss guy... though.. that's definitely alot of classes... 3 Rogue/4 Warlock/3 Paragon/10 Disciple of Beelzebuul

Hm.. though this strays into optimization a bit.. I wonder if going to 7 in Warlock would be better than the 3 Paragon.. .
Morka
03-19-05, 02:14 PM Why would you change your alignment from CN to LE when Cyric is CE? You just have to turn Chaotic Evil, it's less drastic...
Aardobard
03-31-05, 08:23 PM Maybe I'm crazy, but if the guy is LE or NE or whatever you decide he is and the sheet says something else, maybe the sheet just needs to be changed. You're not changing the way you play him or have played him, your just making the sheet reflect what he is. Call it a charcter creation typo.
Vharuck
04-01-05, 02:48 AM I too was wondering why you don't want to be evil. I think every well-rounded D&D party (without paladins, anyways) needs an evil character.
Apostate
04-05-05, 04:16 PM In my current campaign, i'm running a rogue... though, he's not the typical sort.

My rogue is a con artist, a rogue who thinks thieving and killing is below him - he'd much prefer to have the stuff handed over, and doesn't think too highly of plain thieves, despite the fact he is incredibly greedy and powerhungry. (despite, so far in the campaign, his travels in Waterdeep have forced him to rob 3 locations and kill 2 people.. but such lengths are acceptable if needed to save his own life - though, he becomes quite irritable over the situations)

Anyway, he's begun as a Chaotic Neutral character, however, as i'm playing him, I'm starting to get a more Lawful Evil feel from him. What i'm trying to figure out is, how might be a good way to shift his alignment?

-My plan for him, as it stands, is to take him to 3rd level as a rogue, and hopefully, at this point, have him switched to Lawful Evil, allowing me to take the feat "Disciple of Darkness" from the Book of Vile Darkness, but have it be in relation to Cyric (approved by DM), then, when he reaches lvl 4, give him a level in Warlock (idea is that through his bond, he's gotten that taint in his blood which gives him the link to eldritch magic).

It seems to me that your character is more on his way to being NE than LE. As a sucessful con artist you have to be willing to fleece hard-earned money from anyone without a twinge of guilt by pretending to have their best interests at heart and then stab them in the back without a second thought. Just roleplay him as becoming more and more self-absorbed and, as his cons rake in more and more money, have him use more elaborate, and despicable, scams to increase his cashflow. This would reflect his slowly slipping morals. Since people are dumb enough to believe his lies, they deserve to lose their material wealth, right? Then just go downhill from there, always with a reason though.

I find it kind of interesting that your character sees killing as beneath him when he worships the god of murder, but I’m assuming he is more attracted to Cyric’s status as Prince of Lies... but will come around in time. After all, Cyric might demand that he prove his worth by peforming acts he once considered vile in return for more power, including the bloody sacrifice of his friends and family. IMO, if any god in the Faerunian pantheon deserves categorization as Vile, Cyric does.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Of the Quantum 03-16-05, 02:05 AM	In my current campaign, i'm running a rogue... though, he's not the typical sort. My rogue is a con artist, a rogue who thinks thieving and killing is below him - he'd much prefer to have the stuff handed over, and doesn't think too highly of plain thieves, despite the fact he is incredibly greedy and powerhungry. (despite, so far in the campaign, his travels in Waterdeep have forced him to rob 3 locations and kill 2 people.. but such lengths are acceptable if needed to save his own life - though, he becomes quite irritable over the situations) Anyway, he's begun as a Chaotic Neutral character, however, as i'm playing him, I'm starting to get a more Lawful Evil feel from him. What i'm trying to figure out is, how might be a good way to shift his alignment? -My plan for him, as it stands, is to take him to 3rd level as a rogue, and hopefully, at this point, have him switched to Lawful Evil, allowing me to take the feat "Disciple of Darkness" from the Book of Vile Darkness, but have it be in relation to Cyric (approved by DM), then, when he reaches lvl 4, give him a level in Warlock (idea is that through his bond, he's gotten that taint in his blood which gives him the link to eldritch magic). -For the next 3 levels, I am thinking of then crossing into a Human Paragon (idea behind it being that Cyric has granted him the chance to prove himself as a follower, the reward being greater ability in his 'art' (namely the +2 charisma I could give him at level 3)) -Once I reached 8th level, I would have the 10 ranks in Bluff to finally cross-class into a Disciple of Beelzabul (Book of Vile Darkness), however, we'll be running it as a Disciple of Cyric, for the next 10 levels, then, from 18-20, going back to Warlock. My character is an odd sort. He's a human rogue that doesn't have disable device, and isn't very up there in hide or move silently or sleight of hand.. however, at level 2, he's already got +15 to Bluff.. which is what he specializes in. STR: 15 DEX: 19 CON: 14 INT: 16 WIS: 15 CHA: 17 Feats are - Quicker than the Eye, Charlatan, & Persuasive. Flaws are - Shaky & Frail Traits are - Dishonest & Polite Major Skills are: - Bluff: +15 - Disguise: +12 - Intimidate: +12 - Diplomacy: +9 He wears courtier's clothing, a chain shirt hidden below, while wieding a dagger cane (varient of the sword cane my DM and I worked out.. allows me to deal subdual with the cane, as it is bamboo-like material, and then draw the dagger in case it becomes necessary to actually deal real damage) So, aside from ideas on how to shift his alignment all the way from Chaotic Neutral to Lawful Evil, but, also, how the character's premise sounds to people outside of my own head =P
ashcat_lt 03-16-05, 03:45 PM	I like the idea. In fact, I'm working on a character for a campaign that may be coming up soon. She's a prostitute who loves to control and manipulate men (and anybody else for that matter). I'm going a slightly different direction with her. I've got Int, Cha, and Dex as high scores, in that order. She's starting as a human rogue, maxing out the Cha skills. I was looking at Persuasive and Trustworthy at 1st level. Then maybe 3rd level she'll jump out to sorceror for a minute and grab the Alluring feat. I was going to go back and forth between sorc and rogue for a while, taking Spell Focus (enchantment) asafp, but now you've pointed out this Disciple PrC, and I may have to wait on SF, grab Disciple of Darkness at 6th, and be ready to jump into the PrC by 8th. I'm starting her as evil, and never really thought of her as the kind of person who would sell her soul to the devil. She wants to own souls for herself, after all. However, she's been selling herself all her life, and there is no higher bidder... If I can sell myself to the Lord of Lies and never have to touch another stinking sailor on shore-leave again (except maybe for my own amusement)? Very interesting. And it shouldn't be too hard to meet that "sacrifice" requirement. Probably be able to get the victim to pay me to come to his house. End up leaving with everything valuable he has, AND my Int bonus to Bluff checks. By the way, this might also be a good 1 Lvl dip for an evil rogue/invisible blade feinter.
Of the Quantum 03-16-05, 04:50 PM	Yeah, Tongue of the Devil is such a nice 1st level ability, and the King of Lies ability is definitely something i'd be willing to stick to level 10 for. My char, set up as it is, once he gets to level 20 would have... 28 Charisma.. and.. over +40 Bluff, with the ability to take a 10.... shudders Also.. the reason i'm planning it out to level 20 is because I plan on using him as an NPC in a campaign i'm going to be DMing.. as the big bad boss guy... though.. that's definitely alot of classes... 3 Rogue/4 Warlock/3 Paragon/10 Disciple of Beelzebuul Hm.. though this strays into optimization a bit.. I wonder if going to 7 in Warlock would be better than the 3 Paragon.. .
Morka 03-19-05, 02:14 PM	Why would you change your alignment from CN to LE when Cyric is CE? You just have to turn Chaotic Evil, it's less drastic...
Aardobard 03-31-05, 08:23 PM	Maybe I'm crazy, but if the guy is LE or NE or whatever you decide he is and the sheet says something else, maybe the sheet just needs to be changed. You're not changing the way you play him or have played him, your just making the sheet reflect what he is. Call it a charcter creation typo.
Vharuck 04-01-05, 02:48 AM	I too was wondering why you don't want to be evil. I think every well-rounded D&D party (without paladins, anyways) needs an evil character.
Apostate 04-05-05, 04:16 PM	In my current campaign, i'm running a rogue... though, he's not the typical sort. My rogue is a con artist, a rogue who thinks thieving and killing is below him - he'd much prefer to have the stuff handed over, and doesn't think too highly of plain thieves, despite the fact he is incredibly greedy and powerhungry. (despite, so far in the campaign, his travels in Waterdeep have forced him to rob 3 locations and kill 2 people.. but such lengths are acceptable if needed to save his own life - though, he becomes quite irritable over the situations) Anyway, he's begun as a Chaotic Neutral character, however, as i'm playing him, I'm starting to get a more Lawful Evil feel from him. What i'm trying to figure out is, how might be a good way to shift his alignment? -My plan for him, as it stands, is to take him to 3rd level as a rogue, and hopefully, at this point, have him switched to Lawful Evil, allowing me to take the feat "Disciple of Darkness" from the Book of Vile Darkness, but have it be in relation to Cyric (approved by DM), then, when he reaches lvl 4, give him a level in Warlock (idea is that through his bond, he's gotten that taint in his blood which gives him the link to eldritch magic). It seems to me that your character is more on his way to being NE than LE. As a sucessful con artist you have to be willing to fleece hard-earned money from anyone without a twinge of guilt by pretending to have their best interests at heart and then stab them in the back without a second thought. Just roleplay him as becoming more and more self-absorbed and, as his cons rake in more and more money, have him use more elaborate, and despicable, scams to increase his cashflow. This would reflect his slowly slipping morals. Since people are dumb enough to believe his lies, they deserve to lose their material wealth, right? Then just go downhill from there, always with a reason though. I find it kind of interesting that your character sees killing as beneath him when he worships the god of murder, but I’m assuming he is more attracted to Cyric’s status as Prince of Lies... but will come around in time. After all, Cyric might demand that he prove his worth by peforming acts he once considered vile in return for more power, including the bloody sacrifice of his friends and family. IMO, if any god in the Faerunian pantheon deserves categorization as Vile, Cyric does.