Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Razail 03-02-05, 11:28 PM	Could a Necromancer who hates the undead and sees them just as tools to further humanitys destiny of world domination be a "good" or neutral character? oh the setting is ebberon
thegreatbuddha 03-03-05, 02:08 AM	I don't see why not. Two reasons. One, necromancers aren't limited to an evil alignment anyway, and in ealier editions of the game, there were references to good necromancers who focused on healing magicks and the manipulation of the human body, without delving into undead-related spells. Second, humanity often tries to control that which it fears. This would be an interesting concept for a necromancer. Perhaps due to a traumatic event in his past, he has focused his life to knowing everything about his enemy that he can learn, which would make perfect sense for the necromancer class, since it is both traditionally focused on undeath, and is a wizard class and all about some knowledge anyway. I'd envision the character as taking spell choices like Control Undead and Invisibility to Undead. Possibly ranks in Heal as well, since he'd likely want to know the most effective way to dismember a zombie.
aberrant80 03-03-05, 10:46 AM	Fight fire with fire. Such a necromancer might use his life and death powers to get rid of undeads. Just like the wizard slayer who learns magic to kill magic users. He would probably be bitter or fatalistic about it, given that to destroy undead, he must find them and the energy that powers them abhorrent. And yet the fact that he uses the same energy to get rid of them drains his compassion.
waltero 03-03-05, 02:59 PM	I was toying around a similar idea for a nonevil necromancer. I was thinking that he would have no qualms about using/manipulating the mindless undead - like zombies or skeletons - as they are just tools to aid in his understanding of the lifeforces. However, I would have him opposed to sentient undead like liches and vampires, as they are more of an abomination and bent on wickedness.
Rowan_Whispercloak 03-04-05, 07:18 AM	You might be able to get the DM to let you use a Calling Style spell to summon Deathless creature(s) to aid you (in the style of summon nature ally, but with a necromantic twist)
webgear68 03-04-05, 04:43 PM	yes it is possible archliches were mostly good undead and if you read all ghost are is undead with unfinished business so why not. i play a larp where this is often the case with the player necromancers. maybe your a good wizard who became a lich to protect something or just didn't want to die it is possible in my opionin
Vharuck 03-05-05, 02:39 AM	Could a Necromancer who hates the undead and sees them just as tools to further humanitys destiny of world domination be a "good" or neutral character? oh the setting is ebberon So he hates undead? Yet isn't willing to find another way to complete the work? Really, this sounds like an (forgive me for this) african-american in the KKK. That is to say, it makes no sense whatsoever.
Ivarrius 03-05-05, 05:38 AM	There is such thing as a 'good lich'. I think it is in Monsters of Faerun.
Razail 03-05-05, 02:05 PM	First off i would like to thank all of you for the thoughtfull posts. and to you Vharuck may i ask why this is so impossable he hates the undead but is not blind to there uses, and his true hatred is more for intellgent undead not mindless types. Vharuck i am not trying to say that you opinion is wrong and mine is right i would just like a littel more reason why this is impossabel.
LCD2YOU 03-05-05, 10:42 PM	for a "Good" necromancer. I disagree with Vharuck as many who are fascinated with fire become firemen but they want to stop fires. I could see a good necromancer using skeletons, perhaps not zombies as the chance for diseases goes up too much, in doing menial tasks, like cleaning sewers, digging in dangerous mines, etc. That would bea good thing, taking people out of dangerous areas while still getting the resources they need. Free willed undead would still be a blasphemy to them as there is a "life force" of sorts still in them and they are not going where they should. Still, even in the "Book of Exhalted Deeds", there are the "deathless types" which are perfectly acceptable to the higher powers of good. Here's an idea, instead of using negative energy to power up a skeleton, this guy could use positive energy.....
MadScientist!! 03-05-05, 11:05 PM	my knowledge of eberron is a little limitied, but isn't the undying court good? He could be someone that was tasked with learning about necromancy in order to better combat it, and he only uses undead that are created from animals (no humanoids harmed in the making of this automoton).
runestar 03-05-05, 11:24 PM	Necromancers can be of any alignment, just that stigma tends to brand them as evil. Good necros are possible, an old copy of dragon magazine lists such a concept, with a good necro and his band of intelligent undead party members in tow fighting evil. Perhaps they took to necromancy as the means to combat undead, or to understand the concept of necromancy so as to defeat it from within.
Vharuck 03-06-05, 01:40 AM	First off i would like to thank all of you for the thoughtfull posts. and to you Vharuck may i ask why this is so impossable he hates the undead but is not blind to there uses, and his true hatred is more for intellgent undead not mindless types. Vharuck i am not trying to say that you opinion is wrong and mine is right i would just like a littel more reason why this is impossabel. I'm trying not to come across as a stern denouncer who unmovingly and blindly opposes good necromancers (though I do hold the belief that it is almost impossible for one to exist). My problem was with the original concept. Yes, if you are amazed and intrigued by fire, you may become a fireman. But if you find insects disgusting to even look at, you will not become an entomologist (sp?). If you're afraid of heights, you won't help build a bridge. The idea is that it's not that they (the practice of using undead and the hatred of undead) happen simultaneously and therefore conflict, but that the hatred comes first. Any person of a rational mind would avoid things they dislike. If a person disliked undead, he would not create them. That and I believe the act of creating undead is a despicable mockery of life and twists the body of the deceased, which should be buried and treated with respect and honor. Kinda like the reason you don't go to the wake of a guy you never liked and punch him in the face. Just because he can't feel it doesn't mean it's ok.
djinni 03-06-05, 11:45 AM	Good necros are possible yes but remember simply casting "summon undead" or "animte dead" are evil acts and in order to counter balance the evil of each act, the character has to do at least one good act. now the easiest way to do this is to have whatever you summon destroy undead things yay, but you still have to watch it...
Shlik 03-06-05, 06:10 PM	Chaotic characters would have no qualms about using undead, as LCD2YOU said, to take humans out of dangerous situations or basically using the undead in a non-evil way. However, for the original question, I would say if the person really "hates" undead the only reason that he would study them is to find out the best possible way to utterly destroy them. This makes perfect sense, however someone who finds them abhorrent and is only using them because it is THE ONLY way that they think that their goals can be achieved is a stretch. But belief is powerful, so acceptable. Is furthering humanity's world domination a good act though? Is killing off nice little gnomish/dwarvish/elvish/non-evil-sentient-race good?
Sobek 03-06-05, 07:39 PM	Animate is essentially Animate Object except it uses Negative Energy and thus can only animate organic, nonliving objects, positve energy animates only nonliving, un-organic (mostly, meaning it wasn't living before) objects. You cant animate a dead creature with positive energy, but if you create a Skeleton or Zombie, its just a body, no soul trapped or twisted with the casting of it. So depending on were you are (some places despise the descration of a dead body) Raising the dead would not be such a bad act, although if you used the undead to kill children and burn down orphanages then you have a problem, but if you use them to clear out mines or save kittens form trees and the local populace has no qualms with you using dead bodies; then you will be considered good. You could also be a good Necromancer, using your undead for good or using your many undead destroying spells to defeat them but still be "evil" in the eyes of the people; reputation and what you actually do are usually tied together but a Necromancer has such a stigma its not linked together as much.
Vharuck 03-06-05, 10:56 PM	But you're creating evil creatures. There are better ways to do things than create and control naturally (does that word apply here?) evil things.
Razail 03-10-05, 12:24 AM	well we might see other alternatives but there are people that dont. I think that he would see undead as the ultimate and for that matter only alternative because of there "qualities" thank you all for posting and feel free to keep posting, but i think that i have taken enough away from this to play a interesting character, and will no longer be active here but i will look over it time to time. If you think of something that you just must debate with me send me a private message. thanx again all ;)
ShadowWarrior 03-10-05, 12:57 AM	There were a few posts mentioning deathless. Mayhap you could research spells that create deathless rather than undead?
Rickiel 03-10-05, 03:50 PM	There has always been a simple little cantrip that I liked. Disrupt Undead It's simple, deals 1d6 damage to Undead. A Necromancer who HATES, LOATHES, FEARS, etc etc. Undead I believe would be researching spells that would use positive energy to BLOW THEM WALKING DEAD BACK TO KINGDOM COME! Let those petty mortals have a job at making bridges, building houses, digging tunnels and trenches. They need payment too. But save the work of obliterating the undead to the he who know's d'em best. The Necromancer! :cool: Now, I simply suggest that a good necromancer think of researching spells to help defend against, ward, bypass undead, occasionally transfer hit points to heal friends (2ed had a spell like that), and generally thwart other less benign necromancers.
HiQKid 03-13-05, 10:51 PM	Just a little something I rememberd seeing, so I've decided to mention it: PHB Page 57 "Necromancy: Spells that manipulate, create, or destroy life or life force." Sounds like it could be Good, neutral, or evil... Like any other magic. However, most necromancy spells don't reflect that to well... I, personally disagree with Negative energy = evil and positive energy = good... look at it this way: The energy planes are closer to the elemental planes than the alignment planes. A sword is not evil. Someone using a sword to kill innocents is acting in an evil manner. A sheild is not good. Someone using a sheild to defend innocents is acting in a good manner. Bit of a rant here, sorry. Anyways, hope this helps in some small way.