Post/Author/DateTime	Post
jade_jester 04-04-06, 03:49 AM	I WAS playing a true neutral necromancer, until the paladin in my party's church demanded that he take me down. I was able to role-play it well enough to net me enough exp to be the highest level member in the party before he was forced to leave to "atone." I guess my question is can garld glittergold ever be cool with the whole destroying people's souls when you animate their bodies? The church is demanding that I spend some thousand years in hell to pay for my sins, but my necromancer isn't really a bad guy. I really liked the character and want to play him again, but now the paladin will be magically compelled to "bring me to justice." I argued with the dm that there has to be a way around this, but he won't budge. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks in advance.
Orchomenos 04-04-06, 11:53 AM	Well, on one side, I could say that desecrating someone's corpse and creating an undead creature from it is evil, and the fact that you don't get it proove you are evil yourself :P . On the other side, I know there is some cool way to play a non-evil necromancer. The problem is it is really difficult in D&D, since a necromancer who doesn't create undeads is a weak necromancer. I've seen in some fantasy settings a necromancer who was summoning spirits to help her healing people or perform some divination. About the old Garl himself, I guess it depends on the way you are creating your undeads. If it's a good pranks you play at kobolds, having them being attacked by dead peoples, then Garl could agree, as long as you return the zombies to their sanctified graveyards when you're done.
zlatko 04-04-06, 07:16 PM	Surprisingly so, your DM is right. And I might add he's one of the few. Necromancy is evil. No way around it. No more white necromancy bull we had to put up with in the past. A paladin, any paladn, will have a problem with a necromancer. Those two do not belong in a party together. Either one wins or zhe other. No buts about it.
Uberwoot 04-05-06, 02:18 PM	Orchomonos and zlatko are both right, to an extent. The typical necromancer raises corpses as undead minions- an extremely evil act, with no justification for nonevil in any way. However, there are ways to be a necromancer without being evil. There are a lot of spells in the necromancy school (for arcanists) that aren't evil- things like fear spells (scare, fear), some direct damage (chill touch, vampiric touch), anti-undead abilities (disrupt undead, halt undead), miscellaneous buffs and debuffs (ray of enfeeblement, blindness/deafness, bestow curse), and utility spells (spectral hand). Granted, the nonevil necromancer loses a primary power base of his school (the ability to animate dead), but he's not by any means completely worthless. /Woot
General_Ridley 04-06-06, 08:54 PM	There's just no way you can be evil when there's a Pally in your party. Someone's going to have to fall or someone's going to have to give up his odd little habit.
JulesCARV 04-06-06, 09:45 PM	If all necromancy were evil, Mark of Justice and Death Ward wouldn't be on the paladin spell list. Just sayin'. Looking through the Necromancy section of the Wizard/Sorceror spell list, the only evil necromancy spells I can find are Animate Dead, Contagion, Symbol of Pain, Create Undead, Eyebite, and Create Greater Undead. If you can steer clear of using those six spells, than you aren't evil by virtue of your necromancy, by any reasonable interpretation of the rules. Of course, going around casting Vampiric Touch on random civilians is evil, but the same is true of Magic Missile, and probably even Holy Smite.
ToxicWiz 04-15-06, 11:17 AM	just showing the DM this thread should do it. the important points have been said. animating dead ect is evil. Necromancy is not. give up the corpse snatching and you should be fine with the paladin. I could be wrong, but this is how I see it: Garl is a trickster, so i'd assume he's not bothered by this undead stuff, just use it to trick people, but not with malice or to gain the upper hand, but to lighten the spirits, that in his main phlisophy (i think), so yeah, i think he's cool with it :)
Bill Bisco: Average Adventurer 04-16-06, 01:08 AM	I don't agree that Animating Dead is Evil at all.........but I know that I'm gonna lose that argument :P
The_Shaman 04-19-06, 07:07 AM	Well, if you are not a good character I suppose you could animate every now and then... It is not a good act, certainly, but it isn't exactly the most vile deed your character could do (sure, there is the inherent part about bringing negative energy in the realm, but unless that weakens some temporal balance or something, that ends the moment when you dismiss the undead). Still, if you don't want to be evil, do so responsibly: your character has power oved the spirits of the dead and should not abuse it. Don't raise the dead for trifling reasons, or more often than they are absolutely needed, and don't retain them after the need is gone. That is what I'd consider a more or less "moral" position for a neutral (possibly even good, though that may be too much) necromancer.
Need_A_Life 04-20-06, 09:14 AM	I'd go ahead and animate the dead, zombies (while having an evil alignment) have a special quality called "Mindless", they aren't suffering and if you present it right it is a way for them to finish in death what they could not do in life (fight evil, paladins are suckers for such arguments) and make sure to bury the animated dead when you're done with them (later someone will find them and hell will break loose as uncontrolled undead begin roaming the lands)
myusernameis 04-20-06, 11:23 PM	Sounds like your dm is an *******. I have to ask: why is it you should be punished maybe the dm should level his ire at the player who decided to be a paladin? Afterall hes the one who decided to play a class that constricts on the freedoms of other characters with threats of death and smiting. Just give those a few thoughts.
Felyndaer 04-21-06, 02:45 PM	Well, on one side, I could say that desecrating someone's corpse and creating an undead creature from it is evil, and the fact that you don't get it proove you are evil yourself :P . See, you're the one who doesn't get it. Animating corpses is an evil act, it's true. But that doesn't mean that you can't balance it out by doing good things with the zombies you make. You end up neutral if you're a good guy who does bad things to accomplish good goals.