the Paladin of Slaughter: a roleplaying challenge [Archive] - Wizards Community

the Paladin of Slaughter: a roleplaying challenge [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
LiXinjian
06-28-05, 09:15 AM Hi!

Unearthed Arcana describes the Paladin of Slaughter variant, a CE version of the normal PHB paladin.

As I read the Code of Conduct of such a character, my attention was drawn to the part where it says that a PoS must always disrespect those in authority if they have not proven their physical worth to her, and that she must sow death at every opportunity.

Now, how can you roleplay such a character? What does it entail to "disrespect" someone? Does that mean you must always talk back, snicker and address them disrespectfully? If so, it could be a big problem when talking to the fragile old king. If not, could talking behind someone's back be considered a means to show contempt and disrespect? Would that be enough in most instances?

Also, must we consider that the "sowing death at all opportunities" part really should be enforced only on those times when the PoS can get away with it?

All in all, I find the PoS's code rather puzzling. It seems to me no well role-played PoS would make it past the first level with that kind of attitude. I'm curious to see how such a character could be properly roleplayed, and how it could be fun for others.
makeshiftwings
06-28-05, 02:13 PM I got the feeling that those variant paladins were written up very quickly and the codes as stated don't really work without a little tinkering. I think you'd be best off keeping in mind what a paladin would do, but direct it towards the CE alignment. A paladin fights evil, but he's not going to march alone into the depths of the black tower and take on a Balor at level 1. It's the same with the PoS; start small and don't put your life unneccessarily at risk. The paladin's code of "never do anything evil" is somewhat easier to comprehend then "never do anything good", since good is so vague. I wouldn't expect a PoS to have to slaughter every innocent he comes across in town any more than I'd expect a paladin to walk up to every person in town and say "Are you ok? Do you need any help? Want all my money?"

I think the primary things you'd want to concentrate on are never giving in to the "weakness of compassion"; if reaching your goal requires burning down an orphanage of children you must do it, but that doesn't mean you need to go burn down every orphanage just because it's there. Similarly, you would want to avoid classic "authority" at all costs: if you have the choice between doing something yourself or trying to get help from the guards, you have to do it yourself. If you see a situation where you think your goals could be better served by controlling a group yourself rather than acknowledging the current leader, you should kill the current leader and control the rest through fear and intimidation. But you don't need to kill every authority figure you come across just because he's there. I would think you should take a stand against a good church coming in and spouting lies, trying to convince your strong followers to become weak and powerless and give in to the false comfort of compassion, the same way a paladin would take a stand against an evil church trying to lure away his people with promises of power.
DBoot
06-28-05, 06:19 PM In the instances of both the Paladin of Tyranny and the Paladin of Slaughter (more so than even the Blackguard), the clause of 'do no good' is very difficult.

After all, if a paladin stands for truth, justice, and the american way, isn't one of the greatest weapons of the evil paladins deception? And one of the best ways for a character of this sort to do evil is to appear good. And to appear good, one must often perform some act of good, great or small.

This perhaps applies more to the Paladin of Slaughter than the Paladin of Tyranny. The Tyrant can at least use the law to protect himself. That is, after all, why in the Forgotten Realms Campaign settings Bane has the most public evil following.

Early in their career this deception is most important. Afterall a Paladin isn't likely to be killed by an angry mob of villagers, where as to a rampaging Paladin of Tyranny, those same villagers are a very real and very possible threat.

If I were to play a Paladin of Slaughter, I would play it like a two-faced rogue. Always keeping a good (or at least neutral) public face, while sowing discord everywhere, as much with my words as with my sword.

Act Cordial to the king when he has the resources to crush you, but spread unkind words and plot unpatriotic ideas in to the ears of commoners at the local pubs. Ideally, don't meet with the king unless you are more powerful than he is. After all, while you must respect those more powerful than you, it is not because you respect power, its because they can crush you if you don't.
Otogi
06-28-05, 07:02 PM First, shame for all Paladin's of Slughter and Tyranny! Second, he could if he likes, you just don't have to be politicaly correct, you can hekp frightening them if he likes, right?
LiXinjian
06-28-05, 07:05 PM Very wise words from both of you, and not wasted. It *is* true that the 1st-level paladin will not boldly walk into Baator with the intent on destroying evil. He must play it smart, and hone his skills before he is ready to take on the real evildoers...

Let me just add that doing good with the intent of deceiving people is not a good act at all, so as long as the PoS and the PoT have evil ulterior motives, they can fake goodness all they want.

My idea is to play a PoS or PoT as some sort of religious and honour-bound templar, who lives by a code similar to the normal paladins, but bent on evil. Therefore, probably a LE PoT instead of a PoS...

Sample Motos:

-Prove yourself by your sword.

-Don't dishonour yourself by striking at a helpless enemy: show your worth by destroying him in loyal combat instead.

-Cast away the weakening chains of such feelings as compassion, trust, and true friendship. The strong can rely only on himself, and himself alone. (thanks to Makeshiftwings)

Thanks again to both of you.
Otogi
07-01-05, 08:41 PM Your welcome, I always think that you are very wise! Yes, my first sentince saying it is to shame for Paladin's of Slaughter and Tyranny was somewhat rash, but I'm not for the whole "evil" thing. You under stand right? I prefer Gold Dragons over Red, The Dragon Above over The Dragon Below and his fanboys, Suarials over Yuan-ti, Kashar over Inspiered, Deathless over Undeath, ect. over etc. I kind of look down on evil.
Melpomene
07-06-05, 02:01 PM Remember that the oath of a Paladin, even a Paladin of Slaughter, is a deep and resounding religious one. This is a spiritual commitment. The PoS, for example, might honestly believe that all people (and/or all life) are an affront to the greater glory of some nameless, screaming god.

Therefor, while they might not go out of thier way to kill an ancient king, they certainly don't respect him, and have little problem putting him against the wall when the time comes. This indevidual will wade into combat, killing friends and foes alike in a flurry of bloodlust and carnage.

As for the good clause, if this indevidual absent-mindedly saved a town and protected the lives of those within it, they have made a dirrect affront to thier god, who would much rather have seen them die.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
LiXinjian 06-28-05, 09:15 AM	Hi! Unearthed Arcana describes the Paladin of Slaughter variant, a CE version of the normal PHB paladin. As I read the Code of Conduct of such a character, my attention was drawn to the part where it says that a PoS must always disrespect those in authority if they have not proven their physical worth to her, and that she must sow death at every opportunity. Now, how can you roleplay such a character? What does it entail to "disrespect" someone? Does that mean you must always talk back, snicker and address them disrespectfully? If so, it could be a big problem when talking to the fragile old king. If not, could talking behind someone's back be considered a means to show contempt and disrespect? Would that be enough in most instances? Also, must we consider that the "sowing death at all opportunities" part really should be enforced only on those times when the PoS can get away with it? All in all, I find the PoS's code rather puzzling. It seems to me no well role-played PoS would make it past the first level with that kind of attitude. I'm curious to see how such a character could be properly roleplayed, and how it could be fun for others.
makeshiftwings 06-28-05, 02:13 PM	I got the feeling that those variant paladins were written up very quickly and the codes as stated don't really work without a little tinkering. I think you'd be best off keeping in mind what a paladin would do, but direct it towards the CE alignment. A paladin fights evil, but he's not going to march alone into the depths of the black tower and take on a Balor at level 1. It's the same with the PoS; start small and don't put your life unneccessarily at risk. The paladin's code of "never do anything evil" is somewhat easier to comprehend then "never do anything good", since good is so vague. I wouldn't expect a PoS to have to slaughter every innocent he comes across in town any more than I'd expect a paladin to walk up to every person in town and say "Are you ok? Do you need any help? Want all my money?" I think the primary things you'd want to concentrate on are never giving in to the "weakness of compassion"; if reaching your goal requires burning down an orphanage of children you must do it, but that doesn't mean you need to go burn down every orphanage just because it's there. Similarly, you would want to avoid classic "authority" at all costs: if you have the choice between doing something yourself or trying to get help from the guards, you have to do it yourself. If you see a situation where you think your goals could be better served by controlling a group yourself rather than acknowledging the current leader, you should kill the current leader and control the rest through fear and intimidation. But you don't need to kill every authority figure you come across just because he's there. I would think you should take a stand against a good church coming in and spouting lies, trying to convince your strong followers to become weak and powerless and give in to the false comfort of compassion, the same way a paladin would take a stand against an evil church trying to lure away his people with promises of power.
DBoot 06-28-05, 06:19 PM	In the instances of both the Paladin of Tyranny and the Paladin of Slaughter (more so than even the Blackguard), the clause of 'do no good' is very difficult. After all, if a paladin stands for truth, justice, and the american way, isn't one of the greatest weapons of the evil paladins deception? And one of the best ways for a character of this sort to do evil is to appear good. And to appear good, one must often perform some act of good, great or small. This perhaps applies more to the Paladin of Slaughter than the Paladin of Tyranny. The Tyrant can at least use the law to protect himself. That is, after all, why in the Forgotten Realms Campaign settings Bane has the most public evil following. Early in their career this deception is most important. Afterall a Paladin isn't likely to be killed by an angry mob of villagers, where as to a rampaging Paladin of Tyranny, those same villagers are a very real and very possible threat. If I were to play a Paladin of Slaughter, I would play it like a two-faced rogue. Always keeping a good (or at least neutral) public face, while sowing discord everywhere, as much with my words as with my sword. Act Cordial to the king when he has the resources to crush you, but spread unkind words and plot unpatriotic ideas in to the ears of commoners at the local pubs. Ideally, don't meet with the king unless you are more powerful than he is. After all, while you must respect those more powerful than you, it is not because you respect power, its because they can crush you if you don't.
Otogi 06-28-05, 07:02 PM	First, shame for all Paladin's of Slughter and Tyranny! Second, he could if he likes, you just don't have to be politicaly correct, you can hekp frightening them if he likes, right?
LiXinjian 06-28-05, 07:05 PM	Very wise words from both of you, and not wasted. It is true that the 1st-level paladin will not boldly walk into Baator with the intent on destroying evil. He must play it smart, and hone his skills before he is ready to take on the real evildoers... Let me just add that doing good with the intent of deceiving people is not a good act at all, so as long as the PoS and the PoT have evil ulterior motives, they can fake goodness all they want. My idea is to play a PoS or PoT as some sort of religious and honour-bound templar, who lives by a code similar to the normal paladins, but bent on evil. Therefore, probably a LE PoT instead of a PoS... Sample Motos: -Prove yourself by your sword. -Don't dishonour yourself by striking at a helpless enemy: show your worth by destroying him in loyal combat instead. -Cast away the weakening chains of such feelings as compassion, trust, and true friendship. The strong can rely only on himself, and himself alone. (thanks to Makeshiftwings) Thanks again to both of you.
Otogi 07-01-05, 08:41 PM	Your welcome, I always think that you are very wise! Yes, my first sentince saying it is to shame for Paladin's of Slaughter and Tyranny was somewhat rash, but I'm not for the whole "evil" thing. You under stand right? I prefer Gold Dragons over Red, The Dragon Above over The Dragon Below and his fanboys, Suarials over Yuan-ti, Kashar over Inspiered, Deathless over Undeath, ect. over etc. I kind of look down on evil.
Melpomene 07-06-05, 02:01 PM	Remember that the oath of a Paladin, even a Paladin of Slaughter, is a deep and resounding religious one. This is a spiritual commitment. The PoS, for example, might honestly believe that all people (and/or all life) are an affront to the greater glory of some nameless, screaming god. Therefor, while they might not go out of thier way to kill an ancient king, they certainly don't respect him, and have little problem putting him against the wall when the time comes. This indevidual will wade into combat, killing friends and foes alike in a flurry of bloodlust and carnage. As for the good clause, if this indevidual absent-mindedly saved a town and protected the lives of those within it, they have made a dirrect affront to thier god, who would much rather have seen them die.