Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ogre Mage 05-11-04, 02:44 AM	I was thinking the other day ... what happens to a character who starts off as a 1st level neophyte and eventually ascends to demi-god like levels? What would the psychological impact be on a person who went from a relative nobody to a fighter/barbarian who can single handedly defeat a battalion of common soldiers, a rogue who can break into the king's vault and leave no trace of her passing, or a wizard or cleric who can simply makes their desires reality (wish/miracle)? Is it possible to maintain a level-head? Or does power corrupt, even for good-aligned characters? For those who have played a character from 1st level to 15th or higher, how did the character's personality evolve as they ascended in power?
howlingwolf 05-11-04, 05:04 AM	I'd say it depends how humble they are, and generally what crud they went through to get there. You can take a look at stereotypes to see the kind of thing I'm rambling about. - The guy who sees a friend / ally die on a regular basis, will probably be the bitter / retired type. - Evil backstabber. Stole / Betrayed / etc. on his way to the top constantly. Probably be wary of everything / everyone, and be quite happy to continue as they started. - Meatgrinder. They tend to come in two subtypes, the quiet warrior who knows he can singlehandedly kill everyone in the room without breaking a sweat, but doesn't brag, or the blaggard who will loudly boast, and demonstrate his ability to do so. - Wizards are most fun of all! So many types.. There's the all powerful, maniac laugh type. ( Will give a good *BUAMUAGAHAHA!* while casting his maximised, quickened meteor storm. ) The mentor, which is usually the old guy in the tower beyond the woods. And everything in between.
UMiskatonic 05-12-04, 06:52 PM	Having done this with a LONG running home game, here's what I've found. If the party stays together, trust between members will usually grow until they are truly family to one another. Or, someone gets betrayed and is then shunned/hunted down. The biggest change in character psych should be confidence. "Find the man who kidnapped your daughter? Of course we can do it. THe real question is whether you can afford it." Hopefully, the campaign world is fleshed out enough that 15th level PC's have some perks, like free seating at restaurants, or being able to get an audience with the Baron in 20 minutes, instead of in 20 weeks. THe other should be responsibilty. "we have to stop the fiendish ogres before they tear up Black Ford. Our friends live there, and if we let them get into the city, we can count on Ancovar the sage never helping us again. Our revenge against the dragon lord will have to wait" What did any of you experience?
Rudysseus 05-29-04, 09:07 PM	I think your alignment and classes are a huge part of what you eventually become. As a 20 LG Cleric, I ended up building a large temple, and administering to the population around it. I agree with the confidence thing, that was mentioned above. But you can't become overconfident because you're likely to get defeated or even killed if you let that happen. I actually started out thinking my character would degenerate into an evil cleric, after his life was destroyed, but I ended up embracing my faith and becoming more and more good, rather than sinking lower into self-pity. Now conversely, I had an epic lvl fighter/rogue who was NE and he ended up starting his own thieves guild, after he convinced our party that it was worth eliminating the established guild. He was very superior to everyone he met, and even the local nobles knew that he was in charge of the town. He enjoyed a measure of respect from everyone, everywhere he went. Even those that were his enemies knew this was one guy you didn't mess around with. I dont think that your power level directly impacts your attitude, you can be incredibly powerful and yet be humble. And you can be nothing more than a level 1 bard and think you can take on the world. Most of it is what you want to make of it. If you want to have be a paladin who enjoys using his power to help others, thats cool. Or you can be a wizard who specializes in killing people like that.
sparkster4242 05-30-04, 04:28 AM	'What fool is bothering me now? Didnt i just help someone last year? And how the heck did he get past my door-dragon, anyway, or my Forest of Festering Doom?' - wizard 'Ravening hordes of demons deluging the continent through some portal or other? You got me out of bed for that?!' - any fighter-type 'Pesky deities, always fetch this, slay that, why cant they just inspire some teenager...' - cleric 'The real money is in politics, not pocketpicking. Now where did i leave my purple socks?' - rogue
Kickbutt_nancy 05-31-04, 06:19 AM	I played a bard from lvl 1 to 20 he has not changed a bit, Aside from now being king of a major city, building a giant statue of himself overlooking the city's bay, owning a large bardic guild known as Killiapalooza, spent hundreds of years traveling through the stars and planes (thanks to his fountain of youth, spelljammer and collection planar cubes), and running a word famous amphitheater and circus He is still that same young man who sang in the streets of lake city (he just has a new job). but his best friend who was once just a plucky tiefling wizard looking to live life to the fullest, is now been living in his own demi-plane for the past five-hundred years and he never leaves he just sits there with his eyes on the entire universe (if he ever needs anything done outside of his plane he just sends one of his countless golem servants to do it)
PeteRR 05-31-04, 11:58 AM	When the party hit 16th(2nd Ed.), they mostly wanted to retire. The Mage, Cleric, and Rogue all had their followers and little empires to administer. My Paladin had a frontier area he was responsible for in Cormyr. His Grandfather and Nephew commanded his troops on a daily basis and would call for him when needed. Eventually I started to allow myself to be summoned by cleric spell as a hero. I showed up in a lot of desperate situations. :angel: Many years later as a DM I handed out a few two-sided gold/steel coins(Torm on one side and Tempus on the other) as treasure. If you lucked into saying the command word with the coin in your hand, my Paladin would appear in 2-5 rounds preceeded by Chain Lightning that struck all evil beings in a 20 yd radius. I've never officially retired. And I hope I never will.
Larus 05-31-04, 12:31 PM	An aasimar sorcerer I played some time ago eventually (and against all odds) reached epic level around thirty something (plus several dragon disciple levels) He had a rather disturbing career; while saving the world from a demon wiard, he figured out his father was the leader of a dragonic canibalistic cult known as "the order of the dragon" and had to kill him in a one on one sorcerer battle (your spells against mine...really dramatic). He lost two true loves, the first a human paladin (PC) fell in battle, the second (a sun elven bard NPC) left him for another... Eventually he changed his alignment from neutral good to neutral. And around lv 20 from neutral to neutral evil. In mid epic levels he got in a fight with the party wizard and (against all odds) won a mageduel, killing the only ally left from the original party. After aquiering a helluva lot epic feats, and having made some really powerfull epic spells he became close to invinsible. And then utterly insane and paranoid; constantly claiming the celestials from the Forbidden city (a campaign thing; sorta like paradice) where after him. He opened up a gate to somewhere, and no one has seen him since. With power comes insanity. That's my conclusion.
allenchan 05-31-04, 05:41 PM	Welll, in a lot of DnD campaigns, many of the gods were once mortal. So, who's to say your caracter wouldnt advance into immortality, and transcend into a demigod of whatever deals you had promoted in your life?
Valence de Meluvet 06-01-04, 02:19 AM	Depends on their alignment, race, and class, really.. For example, a lawful good dwarven or human paladin may show off his skill and become a hero by single handedly slaying a dracolich that threatened his village. Likewise, a chaotic good elven ranger may lay low until his village is threatened, do what he feels is right, and continue to stay below the law, you know so the other good deeds he did that may no agree with the law wont get out. Then you have the chaotic evil human wizard who builds a 20 story tower next to the kingdom of dee emm, and enslaves everyone with his magic, while killing all who resist and using his nearly god-like powers to benefit number one. Then there is the true neutral half-orc warrior with 6 intellegence who just returns to his cave and draws pictures of his battles on the walls.
Ogre Mage 06-06-04, 06:30 AM	People's responses have been really interesting. I asked because I have a 9th level cleric, closing in on 10th. I'm trying to get a sense of where she might be headed in a few levels. The one mar on her good heart has been her tendency for vengeance (stemming from the massacre of her village when she was in her early teens). She's grappling with the fact that now, her actions can have very serious consequences and she needs to be as judicious as possible in her use of power. She also has a distaste for church politics and avoids it if possible, but as she ascends in level, it is becoming harder.
Darth_Shrike 06-06-04, 12:45 PM	I started as an evil necromancer(cliche perhaps but hey). Eventually i became good(with the help of a female paladin(PC)). This dedication became stronger over the levels. This showed itself in charity in a big city(name eludes me for now): cheap housing, hospitals for the ppor, cheap food,... However the evil was still there and it started to worm back up(family curse thingy combined with very weak health). During this growing charity work (and a slowly returning dark side) the relation with the paladin became stronger and let to a marriage. End that was the end of the fairy tale. The paladin died not so long after the marriage(turned out to be assassins send by the demon controlling the family curse) . This caused the downfall for necromancer. As he went on a full scale revenge quest. (resulting in one big war, destroying three kingdoms and opening a portal to 1 of the nine layers of hell). The oher partymembers werent doing nothing, they were first trying to prevent it, and during the war trying to stop it(failed horribly at that). Eventually it came down to a showdown at the necros tower. He was trying to resurrect his beloved, which they interupted. Then a big battle, which killed the entire party. And the necro well he survived, only to be slain 3 years later by the children of the first party(but that was another campaign). After that i was banned from playing necromancers by the other players. DM tried to persuade them, but alas. The bard I played after that was fun to.
m_man96 06-06-04, 01:21 PM	What is the mentality of a true neutral wizard who sticks to true neutral throughout his entire career? I realize this concept is a bit like Mordenkainen, but hey, I think he's cool. He fears commitment to any extreme? (good, evil, law, chaos) Or he simply has a commitment to no commitment? (neutral because of neutrality)
Votan 06-06-04, 11:19 PM	Originally posted by Ogre Mage I was thinking the other day ... what happens to a character who starts off as a 1st level neophyte and eventually ascends to demi-god like levels? What would the psychological impact be on a person who went from a relative nobody to a fighter/barbarian who can single handedly defeat a battalion of common soldiers, a rogue who can break into the king's vault and leave no trace of her passing, or a wizard or cleric who can simply makes their desires reality (wish/miracle)? Is it possible to maintain a level-head? Or does power corrupt, even for good-aligned characters? For those who have played a character from 1st level to 15th or higher, how did the character's personality evolve as they ascended in power? The hardest thing is that the checks seem to be removed as the character levels. Soon it bceoms impossible fro nmost authority figuresd to influence the players. They become almost laws unto themselves. Bad tendencies can run amok. On the other hand, I see characters in my current group getting more moral and more concerned with the big picture. I expected things to devolve into chaos. Instead they have grown responsible as they have grown mighty.
Ogre Mage 06-07-04, 02:11 AM	Originally posted by m_man96 What is the mentality of a true neutral wizard who sticks to true neutral throughout his entire career? I realize this concept is a bit like Mordenkainen, but hey, I think he's cool. He fears commitment to any extreme? (good, evil, law, chaos) Or he simply has a commitment to no commitment? (neutral because of neutrality) I would imagine such as wizard as one who had a single minded devotion to the development of his craft. He never stopped to consider the ethical or moral implications. If his wisdom is low, this could be because of shortsightedness. If not, he is aware of such issues but probably has no interest in such "boring sematics and rhetoric." He wants to use his magic to better himself, but tries to not hurt others in the process. As his career progressed, nothing occured that caused him think his philosophy was incorrect. NN is a good strereotype for the arch-wizard who only wants to be "left alone" to his magical research. He has no desire to use magic to help people, but nor does he wish to subjugate them.
crumpus 07-15-04, 04:43 AM	I mean no disrespect to anyone, but from the looks of many of the tales, which no doubt are interesting, the real psychology of high lvl characters seems to be power gaming. ;-) Seriously though, In the campains that we have run in the past, we have reached 15th+lvls with at least 2-3 characters for most of the group. Unlike many of the adventurers that I have seen on these boards, we do not like cohorts, nor do we seem to have a extreamly large influence on things as a whole. Our intire group is full of wanderers who only wish to wander and help. We take care of things that arise, and assit when assistance is needed. Good characters? one might ask, but isn't really true. We do not establish buildings, make statues, and in many places, no one really knows our names. We like to keep things that way. Subtle and meek.......yet triumphant and capable. Our group does not frown at adversity, because we have won too often to worry of losing. Although, that doesn't mean that our DM has not put us up to a challenge that if we did not properly prepare for we would have to flee and regroup. Epic Does not equal invincible. We like a challenge and our DM likes to challenge us. High lvls just mean cooler ways to fight back, and better at what you do. But, never the best. I do stand by my original Statement. For many gamers: High LvLs =Power Gaming.
Aki Warren 07-16-04, 11:49 AM	My favorite epic level is a Paladin Human (from 3-27!). He was never humble. He belonged to a knightly order, but not really. He followed the Code of the knights, but was a peasant. He flung the Code about, and always did his duty. He never questioned his duty or the Knighthood, and was all about honor. At higher levels, he just saw himself as gaining more responsiblity. He never really changed, he didn't brag or anything and still followed the code. He honored his enemies, as long as they were brave. He never really trusted magic-users but that was because of other reasons. If anything he grew more humble. My DM doesn't allow the leadership feat, nor do I want it.
Sisyfos 07-16-04, 12:21 PM	Originally posted by crumpus I do stand by my original Statement. For many gamers: High LvLs =Power Gaming. Would you explain what you mean with this? I've played for ages and it is simply a fact in our campaigns that at high levels characters do deeds which have profound impact for the areas we are in. Playing meek is a bit hard when everyone knows that you have single handedly closed a portal to hell by stepping through it and beating the crap out of the demonlord standing behind it, taking his artifacts and destroying them. "- Humble simple warrior coming through... - Beware! You do not want to touch my archdevil armor with bare flesh as that would kill you! - May I have a glass of milk and some cookies please?" Sisyfos
The_Yellow_Dart_Swinger 07-16-04, 12:58 PM	Originally posted by Sisyfos "- Humble simple warrior coming through... - Beware! You do not want to touch my archdevil armor with bare flesh as that would kill you! - May I have a glass of milk and some cookies please?" Sisyfos "Only 5 copper?, I'm sorry but all I have are these 10 pound platinum bars, I do hope you can make change.." How a character acts at higher levels depends on the character and the events of the game. Their is no particular way a high level character should or shouldn't act. In a general sense, anything you do at epic levels will have some large effect to someplace.
Lord of the Ninth 07-16-04, 05:44 PM	I remember a level 13-15 (not sure exactly) character of mine. His name was Grogneo Benevici Laroche (barb/rogue/Fated prc). He was a barbarian of noble lineage who became an ambassador to a neighboring nation. However when he and the gang arrived he was set up (assassins turned out to be nobles and then it was our word against that of their relatives, so self defense became murder). So instead of sitting there and taking it, he broke out and all but single handedly started a civil war (Regicide, kidnapping, framing and lies). This in turn quickly sparked the world war that the continent was already on the brink of. 'course Grog was an immoral sob (amoral, on good days). So pretty much being a ten foot juggernaut of slaughter with the social skills of a master diplomat tends to make one very arrogant. For a little while he honestly believed he could rule the world by creating a state of anarchy and then starting his own nation fueled almost solely by his own might and charisma. Seemed to be working until he got a metal bolt rammed through his skull.
Hell_Bane 07-19-04, 01:18 AM	My highest level character is a Ranger 6/Exotic Weapon Master 3. He is a variant Ranger with no spells (from Complete Warrior) and is a master with the Two-Bladed Sword. He started as a Chaotic Good Ranger who had Goblinoids as his Favored Enemy. With time, as the party faced more and more Zombies, Undead became the Favored Enemy he hated the most, and since the DM almost never made it possible for my character to use his Ranger skills (such as Tracking), he concentrated on combat (by taking the 3 levels of Exotic Weapon Master). He has changed since 1st level, even though he still has the same alignment. At first he was shy with women and felt uncomfortable when he was with too many people, a side effect of being alone in the woods for so long. He didn't care for the law. Even though he understood why there were laws, and followed them if possible, he still ignored them when it was time to stop the bad guys (and got into a little trouble with the law too). Luckily for him, there was a Paladin in the party, and even though he didn't approve of the Ranger's way of doing things, the law officers let my character go because of who he was with. Now, close to his 10th level, he likes to be social when he feels in a good mood, but still likes to have moments on his own. He has lost all shyness with women, and even looks forward to being with the pretty ones. His moral code hasn't changed at all, but he has become a little arrogant with his adversaries, something he wasn't in the past. He just knows he's damn good with a two-bladed sword. He doesn't like the fact that his achievements are making him popular, unlike the other party members who enjoy doing great speeches in front of crowds. Still, he does the occasionnal speech to soldiers when it's time to go to battle and is starting to become more responsible. Although he's not there yet, (he's half-gipsy, so he's a little wild) I see him as the mentor-type in a few years of his life, instructing others in the art of the two-bladed sword.
phosis21 07-20-04, 05:51 PM	I had a character once... I've played a few characters into high levels. The thing is, the way our game works, is we play by Semesters, we're in college and the bookends of a game are a semester. Once the Climax happens yer character belongs to Dave our DM. Soren was a LG Cleric/Warpriest, about as close as you could be to being a Paladin without being a paladin. At 18th level we hit the climax, and in the end of a fight involving a Millenia old, invincible demon weapon (sentient) and the previously AWOL God of Man, a hurt but living cleric offered his GreatSword to the god, since his had been destroyed in the fight. This act, as well as the subsequent death of the previous Senator, granted Soren a spot on the Diefic Senate, as Senator of him Prime World (one material plane in a grid of hundreds of material planes) He lived out his days as a politician. Horus was a ****** off egyptian heir-apparent-betrayed warrior. He was untouchable and at 35th level it should be expected. He became the king of his realm, after killing his back stabbing brother. After the climax he joined the entorage of the god of man, and died 'taking a bullet (desintigration spell)' for his son. Amorim was a social rogue turned Dex Fighter after taking lvls in Invisible Blade and Swashbuckler. at 22nd he was good, though not as good as Horus (he was more diverse though). Dave hasnt written the finish to the campaing on amorim, but likely as not he lived out his days, retired, as the master of a large and growing order of inter-planar spies and information brokers. He lives off the interest of the interest on his money in the bank. The higher lvl ytou get the more it seems you want to settle into a routine, a comfortable retired life where you can still help people but arent on the road all the time. Erich Verona will be a wizard bent on personal power, at any expense. Who know what he'll do as time goes on!!!
Ganurath 07-23-04, 10:30 PM	Barbarian- General will become even more violent and powerhungry, seeking foes appropriate to their alignment and random beasts they will slay. Some manage to awe savage tribes and become warlords who carve a path of destruction in enemy territory until an equal hero/villian defeats them with a stroke of luck and skill. Bard- These guys are to busy being artists, gossips, and hedons to be caught up in their power. Not much change. Cleric- The higher up you go, the stronger you are tied to your god, and the more zealously you represent them. You do everything to do that deity's agenda. Druid- Similiar to cleric, but with nature itself as the deity. Fighter- These guys just keep looking for fights and money, fights and money. If they're mercenaries, they'll demand lots of money, but no more than excess. Personality wise, fighting has made them as dull as an overused sword. Monk- Monks tend to draw inward as they advance. No arrogance, no demands, yet no emotion or thrills. Paladin- I AM RIGHT! YOU ARE EVIL! You are blessed. YOU WILL DIE TO MY HOLY LONGSWORD AND MOUNT! I don't really like Paladins because they seem narrow to me, even with the UA varients. Ranger- Depends on the first favored enemy. If it is sentient, they become somewhat arrogant in their ability to outwit and outmatch their foe. If not, then they slowly begin to demand stronger and stronger versions of their foe, not content with whatever he faced last. Rogue- Now, a rogue is pretty self explanatory. Rogues are driven by the moment and know what they can do. They all become arrogant, but the further you lean toward chaos, the more the arrogance shows, and moving toward evil is more events that support said arrogance. Sorcerer & Wizard- I'm putting them in the same area because the only difference is the sorcerer gets away with his high level flaws with charm while the wizard either debates it away or disintegrates it. The arcanist will either become drawn inward trying to advance their power, use their power to advance themself in the world, or use their power as wim sees fit.