Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Fox Lee 07-15-03, 01:12 AM	Actually, that is slightly misleading. What I want is to find a race for a character's past love interest. The tough bit, however, is picking the right one - I need something that is not attractive, at least in the classical (pretty/sexy female) sense, but does have a measure of presence and style, and could be looked up to as a leader. Something that's really badass, with battle scars and justified pride, and a deep-seated loyalty to her allies. Ao far, the only ideas I have for her are along the lines of Gnoll, Earth Genasi, Chaond, or Firbolg. Does anybody have any suggestions? Races from most any supplement or enhancement are viable.
JusticeZero 07-15-03, 04:13 AM	Errrr... Human?
Mr. VanderMeer 07-15-03, 06:01 AM	Something with a template? Half Dragon/Human Half Celestial/Orc Things like that maybe?
Fox Lee 07-15-03, 07:18 AM	JusticeZero: Erm... no. I appreciate if you're trying to help, but honestly, did you even read the original request? Mr. VanderMeer: Templates are viable, yes, but it's choosing which one(s) that is the problem. Maybe the Feral template would come in handy...
Lord Harley 07-15-03, 07:48 AM	why not just a plain jane human? whats wrong with that? LH
hiryuu 07-15-03, 08:30 AM	Earth Genasi is cool. Plus, they're real salt-of-the-earth folk. And the earth genasi pic in the FRCS just looks kinda....I dunno.....sensible.
Fox Lee 07-15-03, 09:47 AM	Originally posted by Lord Harley why not just a plain jane human? whats wrong with that? Well, I'm not after something that would be conventionally attractive. A plain-looking girl may not be dead-sexy or anything, but they're not generally found to be overtly unattractive - and they rarely have anything that could be called "presence". That, and I want to go for something more interesting, like a monster race.
Mr. VanderMeer 07-15-03, 11:35 AM	So, what do you think of the suggestions up to now?
JusticeZero 07-15-03, 02:53 PM	Originally posted by Fox Lee JusticeZero: Erm... no. I appreciate if you're trying to help, but honestly, did you even read the original request?Yes, I did. I saw nothing in your request that couldn't be fulfilled in a human character.
Baron Phylos 07-15-03, 04:07 PM	Originally posted by Fox Lee I need something that is not attractive, at least in the classical (pretty/sexy female) sense, but does have a measure of presence and style, and could be looked up to as a leader. Something that's really badass, with battle scars and justified pride, and a deep-seated loyalty to her allies. A lycanthrope? Werebear, Wereboar or Weretigress comes to mind. A Zenythri from the MM2 maybe. +2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Wis, -2Cha, sounds pretty badass to me.
Iry 07-15-03, 05:20 PM	Originally posted by Fox Lee Actually, that is slightly misleading. What I want is to find a race for a character's past love interest. The tough bit, however, is picking the right one. That's not too tough. I need something that is not attractive, at least in the classical (pretty/sexy female) sense, A female dwarf? but does have a measure of presence and style, A female dwarf. and could be looked up to as a leader. A female dwarf! Something that's really badass, with battle scars and justified pride, A female dwarf. =D and a deep-seated loyalty to her allies. Sounds like a female dwarf to me.
texaskron 07-15-03, 06:14 PM	Both the earth genasi and the dwarf ideas seem to be pretty on the mark for what you are looking for... but how about a Frost Giant? This is a pic of Skaldi from the Asgardian pantheon (she's a frost giant): http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/dd_gallery/dd4/Skadi_p190.jpg I dig her, but I like blue. Edit: she's literally someone you could look up to for leadership! :)
evoken_november 07-15-03, 06:27 PM	I agree with the people who've mentioned Dwarf. It fits all your criteria, assuming the character in need of this love interest is not already a dwarf him/herself.
Fox Lee 07-15-03, 09:13 PM	Hmm... I think Frost Giant sounds kinda cool >:) Or a Forest Giant, maybe - the ones in MM2 are schweet. A lycanthrope could work well too, provided I can get around any alignment restrictions. Do they have any specfic leanings (appearance-wise) when they're in human form, though? It's been so long I've no idea... I don't really think a Dwarf is what I'm looking for, though. It fits with the criteria, yes, but... it just wouldn't seem right to have her be shorter than him ^^; A Zenythri, probably not - with they way they are described as looking perfect and flawless, combined with their Lawful bent, they're probably not what I'm after. If I was going to pick a planetouched, I'd prolly go with Chaond instead.
Baron Phylos 07-16-03, 03:00 AM	From the MM Werebear in humanoid form tend to be stout, well-muscled and hairy. Their brown hair is thick and males usually wear beards. They may have reddish, blond, ivory or black hair matching their ursine form. Wereboars in humanoid form tend to be stocky, muscular people of average height. Their hair is short and stiff. Weretigers in humanoid form tend to be sleeky muscular, taller than average and very agile. The Savage Species book has rules about avoiding the Alignment shift of certain templates. The gist of it being that the closer the original alignment is to the templates' "forced" alignment, the easier it is to avoid the change. So a LG fighter being turned into a CE Werewolf has little chance of resisting the change in alignment. While a NG Rogue getting turned into a Neutral Wereboar has very good chances of staying NG.
dark_kiri 07-16-03, 10:42 AM	Originally posted by Fox Lee Actually, that is slightly misleading. What I want is to find a race for a character's past love interest. The tough bit, however, is picking the right one - I need something that is not attractive, at least in the classical (pretty/sexy female) sense, but does have a measure of presence and style, and could be looked up to as a leader. Something that's really badass, with battle scars and justified pride, and a deep-seated loyalty to her allies. Ao far, the only ideas I have for her are along the lines of Gnoll, Earth Genasi, Chaond, or Firbolg. Does anybody have any suggestions? Races from most any supplement or enhancement are viable. Hmmm: Blue Oni (Ogre Mage) Hobgoblin Fire/frost giant (fire are a bit more militant and lawful) Earth Genasi, sure. In general, look at a lot of the medium to huge Lawful human-shapes. Usually Evil ones can provide a discrimination plothook, in which the SO can be popular among her people (and maybe yer party) but shunned and feared by the commoners.
Iry 07-16-03, 12:38 PM	No offense, but it appears as if you are primarily after something exotic and attention getting. A pure freak of a trophy girlfriend, instead of a more resonable and common solution. I hope the player mentality doesn't match the character mentality, or you're probably going to lose her very quickly.
mnb789 07-16-03, 12:40 PM	Go tiefling, they're cool. You can hold onto her horns when you're getting...intimate.
Fox Lee 07-16-03, 09:05 PM	Originally posted by Iry No offense, but it appears as if you are primarily after something exotic and attention getting. A pure freak of a trophy girlfriend, instead of a more resonable and common solution. I hope the player mentality doesn't match the character mentality, or you're probably going to lose her very quickly. Okay; time to stop making stupid assumptions. You're completely misunderstanding my motivations, so please refrain from judging what you percieve to be my mentality until you at least know the whole situation. Just because I'm not after something common, doesn't mean I'm after a "trophy girlfriend". Yes, I want her to be a freak; that's the whole damn point. However, you're wrong to assume that this is because I want her to be "exotic" or "attention-getting" - I merely want her to be appropriate to the setting and the background, and to be an interesting and usual race like the rest of the characters. It's a game that does not focus around the PHB races (being planes-centric and set in an era where many more races have become Good or Neutral instead of evil, and therefore are common adventurer types), and I want to find something new and unusual to use for her. If you think that's such a terrible thing, good for you - I don't care. *shrugs* Oh, and the character is not going to "lose her very quickly", because as I mentioned originally, she was a past romantic interest. Nothing even happened between them - it was just a case of he was attracted to her and was too shy to mention it. The idea is that he's a character who is very strongly appearance-centric; he wasn't exactly vain, but - being cute and charismatic, a natural "people person" - he came to hold his physical beauty as a kind of "security blanket" when life got rough. During his backstory events he was horribly mauled, losing half of his face and both of his arms amongst other stuff, and now goes around with two Arms of Nihr and a consant Change Self in effect to make him look flawlessly beautiful. Basically, he's desperately trying to deny what happened, to the point of making himself into something he never was - which he doesn't really want to do, but he's overcompensating. The whole point of the character is that this is how he needs to develop, this is what he needs to get past. He may one day be healed back to his former state - he does have the interest of a God of Beauty, after all - but if this is to happen, it can only happen once he accepts what he is and learns to live with it. This past romantic interest is there to serve as an eventual reminder that there was somebody he had loved, and found beautiful, despite the fact that they were, by normal standards, freakish and ugly. I want these particular personality traits because this is the kind of thing he would look up to, and find appealing in a prospective romance. And let me just clear up two other things: firstly, I myself am female; secondly, I'm already engaged to most wonderful boy alive.
Fox Lee 07-16-03, 09:11 PM	Originally posted by mnb789 Go tiefling, they're cool. You can hold onto her horns when you're getting...intimate. Thanks for the suggestion, but this one's out. Tieflings are way overused as shameless sexpot characters. And besides, they probably won't be getting intimate, her only being a figure from his past and all - and even if they were, holding onto her horns wouldn't be his style. He's one of your sweet, submissive types.
Fox Lee 07-16-03, 09:16 PM	Baron Phylos: Thanks for the appearance stuffs! I think she could work pretty well as any one of those, visually, and being percieved as an evil creature would provide just the kind of social stigma I'm looking for ^.^ I'll have to ask the GM how he feels about lycanthropes - this could work well... dark_kiri: Ooh - Hobgoblin is an interesting one I hadn't thought of. Meanwhile, you're right about the Evil creatures providing good material - however, I'm more inclined to look at a Chaotic creature for her, since it's more her style. Not that she couldn't be a Chaotic member of a generally-Lawful race, but I thought I might mention that whatever her race, she was probably CG.
LeopardQueen 07-16-03, 11:06 PM	Ogre Mage?
texaskron 07-17-03, 01:05 AM	If I was your DM I'd have her be able to see through the charade and tell him to come back when he comes to terms with himself... after saving his life a few times. :)
Vel_Ziliuse 07-17-03, 02:29 AM	Originally posted by Fox Lee I need something that is not attractive, at least in the classical (pretty/sexy female) sense, but does have a measure of presence and style, and could be looked up to as a leader. Something that's really badass, with battle scars and justified pride, and a deep-seated loyalty to her allies. I think that having "presence and style [..] and a deep-seated loyalty to her allies" does not depend on the race, but on the individual. Anyway here are my suggestions: -A Githzerai/Githyanki pirate leader -A half-golem/half-human -A Skum leader -A simple Centaur -A Keeper -A Khaasta mercenary -A humanoid turned into an Ophidian -A Shadar-Khai (shadow fey) hope this helps...
Lhiannon Sidhe 07-17-03, 04:56 AM	Aquatic Elf Unicorn Mephit Hound Archon
Fox Lee 07-17-03, 06:57 AM	Originally posted by Vel_Ziliuse I think that having "presence and style [..] and a deep-seated loyalty to her allies" does not depend on the race, but on the individual. Yes, this is very true; however, since I have license to experiment with cool moster types, I have the chance to find something perfect to go with her personality and style ^^ Anyway here are my suggestions: -A Githzerai/Githyanki pirate leader -A half-golem/half-human -A Skum leader -A simple Centaur -A Keeper -A Khaasta mercenary -A humanoid turned into an Ophidian -A Shadar-Khai (shadow fey) A Gith could work well. I was thinking I would stay away from them since another player is already playing one, but now that I think about it, if I made her a Githzerai to his Gothyanki, it could be interesting. A half-golem is nifty, too - it's a template that gives you nifty stuff in exchange for CHA and DEX dumps, or something like that? I'd have a hard time working out why she has bits of other things stuck onto her, though, and it might not fit with her being very independant and self-reliant. Skum I don't remember ^^; MM2? A different supplement? Centaur is amongst the front runners. That would be very close to what I'm after, I think, and I've wanted to design a centaur character for a while now. Keeper, Khaasta and Ophidian I'm not familiar with; which book are they from? Shadar-Kai are cool, but they have a few too many strings attached, I think - and their sneak attack/bigfatdexbonus probably leans them a bit too strongly toward Rogue for this character. It would be nifty if I could somehow make one who had learned to be happy and remained Good-aligned despite the Curse, though...
Fox Lee 07-17-03, 07:03 AM	Originally posted by Lhiannon Sidhe Aquatic Elf Unicorn Are these really generally thought of as unattractive? Elves and Unicorns tend to be potrayed as extremely beautiful things, with only rare exceptions (my personal opinions on current official art notwithstanding). I think these two are a bit too attractive to fit. But thanks ^^ Mephit Hound Archon A Mephit is prolly out - having her be shorter than him just wouldn't fit, and moreso if it were an entire size category of difference ^^; Hound Archons, though, are now high on the potential list, provided they don't appear too powerful. Though I can't actually remember if they get a CHA modifier (all celetsial types seem to get a bonus), they don't appear to be attractive beasties by the art.
Vel_Ziliuse 07-17-03, 07:30 AM	Originally posted by Fox Lee since I have license to experiment with cool moster types, I have the chance to find something perfect to go with her personality and style ^^ I couldn't agree more ^_^ A half-golem is nifty, too - it's a template that gives you nifty stuff in exchange for CHA and DEX dumps, or something like that? I'd have a hard time working out why she has bits of other things stuck onto her, though, and it might not fit with her being very independant and self-reliant. What about a Frankenstein-thing? She got away (or maybe killed) her master and now she earns for freedom. Skum I don't remember ^^; MM2? A different supplement? Monster Manual pag 166 Anyway it doesn't fit your concept. Skums are the slaves of aboleths. Keeper, Khaasta and Ophidian I'm not familiar with; which book are they from? Fiend Folio, if have the opportunity take a look at the Khaasta (pag 115) It would be nifty if I could somehow make one who had learned to be happy and remained Good-aligned despite the Curse, though... Uhmmm ... Shadar-Kai are too spooky ...
evoken_november 07-17-03, 10:01 AM	Hmmm... How about an unusually intelligent Ogre? :D
Nei 07-17-03, 01:16 PM	How about a night hag? Or a mongrelman (second ed)? You can't go more Quasimodo than a mongrelman! And because beauty is in the eye of the beholder...a beholder! :behold: Nei
Tzalice Minoladir 07-17-03, 05:04 PM	I don't see what's wrong with a typical race. I mean, I appreciate what you're trying to do, but it still some of these things are pretty far out. I'd stay with a creature at least the same size category and general type as your character. Hill giants and such are pretty big. Stay humanoid, stay medium. stay civilized. Maybe just go with a someone with a little bit of odd heritage in her background. If she has a force of personality, there's still charisma for that reason, she's just not comely. Low charisma doesn't always mean ugly nor does it neccessarily mean unassuming. with a cha 6 you can be gorgeous, but completely awkward in social situations.
Iry 07-17-03, 09:51 PM	Originally posted by Fox Lee Okay; time to stop making stupid assumptions. You're completely misunderstanding my motivations, so please refrain from judging what you percieve to be my mentality until you at least know the whole situation. Nonsense, such assumptions are the crux of half the societies the world revolves around. We make deductions, inductions, and work the best we can from comparisons and available information. Even now you're making assumptions as to my intent, and I'd not fault you for it. My tone is a little wonky, and sometimes my metaphors are alien. I'm usually quite objective, and it's served me well as an Owsla/Guardian. ;) Just because I'm not after something common, doesn't mean I'm after a "trophy girlfriend". Yes, I want her to be a freak; that's the whole damn point. However, you're wrong to assume that this is because I want her to be "exotic" or "attention-getting" - I merely want her to be appropriate to the setting and the background, and to be an interesting and usual race like the rest of the characters. It's a game that does not focus around the PHB races (being planes-centric and set in an era where many more races have become Good or Neutral instead of evil, and therefore are common adventurer types), and I want to find something new and unusual to use for her. If you think that's such a terrible thing, good for you - I don't care. *shrugs* Aye I decided on that after I wrote my message and never got around to editing it (Busy college life). So I do extend my appologize, the setting of your campaign is quite important as towards how such a lady might react to you actions/inactions! In counter, however, I suggest you make it more clear from the start what the campaign is about so that we may better understand your needs. This is just Rhetoric, but how am I wrong about your wanting her to be "exotic" or "attention getting?", immediately after your statement that you wanted a freak? This description seemed the most accurate depiction of what you desired from us. Oh, and the character is not going to "lose her very quickly", because as I mentioned originally, she was a past romantic interest. Nothing even happened between them - it was just a case of he was attracted to her and was too shy to mention it. The idea is that he's a character who is very strongly appearance-centric; he wasn't exactly vain, but - being cute and charismatic, a natural "people person" - he came to hold his physical beauty as a kind of "security blanket" when life got rough. During his backstory events he was horribly mauled, losing half of his face and both of his arms amongst other stuff, and now goes around with two Arms of Nihr and a consant Change Self in effect to make him look flawlessly beautiful. Basically, he's desperately trying to deny what happened, to the point of making himself into something he never was - which he doesn't really want to do, but he's overcompensating. Fair enough. However, as my advice is already invalidated by campaign specific social structure, we can move on. The whole point of the character is that this is how he needs to develop, this is what he needs to get past. He may one day be healed back to his former state - he does have the interest of a God of Beauty, after all - but if this is to happen, it can only happen once he accepts what he is and learns to live with it. This past romantic interest is there to serve as an eventual reminder that there was somebody he had loved, and found beautiful, despite the fact that they were, by normal standards, freakish and ugly. I want these particular personality traits because this is the kind of thing he would look up to, and find appealing in a prospective romance. On an unrelated issue, I must compliment you on the motives of your character. If you have not already written a great deal more, I would advise showing this to your DM! One of the greatest functions of writing is the ability to clarify your own thoughts. :D And let me just clear up two other things: firstly, I myself am female; secondly, I'm already engaged to most wonderful boy alive. Congratulations on your engagement, and may the two of you live in romance and childhood for all your years. Salud!
Vaalingrade Ashland 07-17-03, 11:29 PM	Emancipated shadow spawn. Exotic, but very, very creepy.
Fox Lee 07-18-03, 01:58 AM	Originally posted by Tzalice Minoladir I don't see what's wrong with a typical race. I mean, I appreciate what you're trying to do, but it still some of these things are pretty far out. I'd stay with a creature at least the same size category and general type as your character. What's wrong with a typical race is that it's not what I want - most of the rest of the cast aren't "typical" races anyway. And, as I've stated a bunch of times already, I want to experiment with some kind of monster race, something new and interesting. As an additional reason I haven't mentioned yet, it also happens that the pair met as slaves, belonging to a "collector" of sorts, because they were both unusual races (the character is an Aasimar). I do plan on sticking with something that is generally the same size and type as the character; I don't think an Abberation would be a viable choice, for example. However, I am happy to go one size category larger, because it would fit the feel I'm after for the NPC. One smaller wouldn't work, though. Hill giants and such are pretty big. Stay humanoid, stay medium. stay civilized. Maybe just go with a someone with a little bit of odd heritage in her background. I'll probably stay humanoid, but not necessarily Humanoid. That is, I want something with a mostly humanoid form, but I don't see the need to conform to the Humanoid category as per D&D. Satying medium? Again, I'm happy to go as far as large. Stay civilised? Nu-uh. Why would I wanna do that? Admittedly I've not decided her background yet, but what I do have of her personality dictates that even if her race were civilised as a whole, she would be pretty damn uncivilised herself. So thanks, but something at least a little wild would probably work better ^^ If she has a force of personality, there's still charisma for that reason, she's just not comely. Low charisma doesn't always mean ugly nor does it neccessarily mean unassuming. with a cha 6 you can be gorgeous, but completely awkward in social situations. Um... yes? Why are you telling me this? ^^;
Fox Lee 07-18-03, 02:17 AM	Originally posted by Iry Nonsense, such assumptions are the crux of half the societies the world revolves around. We make deductions, inductions, and work the best we can from comparisons and available information. Even now you're making assumptions as to my intent, and I'd not fault you for it. My tone is a little wonky, and sometimes my metaphors are alien. I'm usually quite objective, and it's served me well as an Owsla/Guardian. ;) I'm not really making assumptions as to your intent; I never tried to guess what (if anything in particular) you were trying to do. I just found your tone offensive; largely because I've been in a lot of situations where people will automatically assume the worst of me, I guess, but also because - by suggesting that my intentions were simply to create a "trophy girlfriend" - you lumped me with a group of people I hate passionately. Aye I decided on that after I wrote my message and never got around to editing it (Busy college life). So I do extend my appologize, the setting of your campaign is quite important as towards how such a lady might react to you actions/inactions! In aid of you better understanding the situation, then, this character would probably want to snap your arms off if you called her "lady", at least after the first warning. ;p In counter, however, I suggest you make it more clear from the start what the campaign is about so that we may better understand your needs. This is just Rhetoric, but how am I wrong about your wanting her to be "exotic" or "attention getting?", immediately after your statement that you wanted a freak? This description seemed the most accurate depiction of what you desired from us. Perhaps we see different connotations of the word? To me, "exotic" carries elements of desireability, and is supposed to be attractive and appealing because it is unknown. This is not what I want, not at all - that is, I do not want something which would be appealing to "normal" standards for these reasons. For example, I immediately ruled out Tieflings, who always seem to be overplayed sexpots because of the "exotic" factor. Likewise, I would never want to use a Succubus, Eronyes, Nymph, Half-Fey, Siren, or anything of that ilk. If by "erotic" what you mean is simply different or unusual, then yeah, okay, apply that word to it if you want. However, it was less this that offended me, and more the suggestion that I was after a "trophy girlfriend" who would be involved with the character purely so he could show off or whatever. On an unrelated issue, I must compliment you on the motives of your character. If you have not already written a great deal more, I would advise showing this to your DM! One of the greatest functions of writing is the ability to clarify your own thoughts. :D Um... thanks <^^; FWIW, I already have shown the DM this much - for me D&D is a very character-focused game, so I always (of the GM is willing to) try to conspire with the GM to work my character into the story, and plot a potnetial course of development. I like to see my characters go somewhere during the game, or I feel it's all rather wasteful. On perhaps an unecessary note, I did a schpeel this character on another thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=50797) - second last post on the page. You may or may not find it interesting ^^ Congratulations on your engagement, and may the two of you live in romance and childhood for all your years. Salud! *eyes that suspiciously* Thanks... but you're not wishing children upon me, right? ^^; Just childlike joy? No kids for us. Sorry for mentioning that, BTW. I feel like it was sort of foolish now ^^; I just wanted to make it known, I think because I originally misinterpreted your first comment to imply that I was looking for a "trophy girlfriend" IRL ^^;
Fox Lee 07-18-03, 02:21 AM	Originally posted by Vaalingrade Ashland Emancipated shadow spawn. Exotic, but very, very creepy. Thanks, but that's not really the flavour I'm after; I'm aiming at "barbaric" more than "creepy". That, and emancipated/creepy/shadowy doesn't really fit with her either; she'll probably be pureclass Fighter or Barbarian. A far more direct kind of person ^^
Lhiannon Sidhe 07-18-03, 03:01 AM	How bout an animal with a template to make it an intelligent being... A half-dragon horse or wolf wouldn't be the most attractive individual. If you rolled the stats for a half-dragon Wolf, it would have a -6 Int, with a high roll, she'd still be far from a dumb animal.
Fox Lee 07-18-03, 03:33 AM	Originally posted by Lhiannon Sidhe How bout an animal with a template to make it an intelligent being... A half-dragon horse or wolf wouldn't be the most attractive individual. If you rolled the stats for a half-dragon Wolf, it would have a -6 Int, with a high roll, she'd still be far from a dumb animal. An interesting idea, but like I said, I do want to keep in humanoid as a general form.
Nei 07-18-03, 08:19 AM	Fox Lee is ignoring me... :sad: (My suggestion is on the bottom of page one, guess you missed it) Nei
Galor 07-18-03, 11:46 AM	Originally posted by Fox Lee Originally posted by Lhiannon Sidhe <Some suggestions about templated animals that didn't get auto-quoted again by boards>An interesting idea, but like I said, I do want to keep in humanoid as a general form. What about an Ape or Baboon? :smirk: (Monkey is listed in the MM as Tiny, so too small) :D
King of Diamonds 07-18-03, 12:40 PM	Um here is one that would most likely get shot down as fast as i can put it up. How about a Lich Illusionist? used her spells to look normal for a time but stoped that garbage and took on her desicated apearance.
Iry 07-18-03, 01:25 PM	Oh no, I never meant you were after a trophy girlfriend in real life, I know your sig. ;) As for the childhood, I meant the way couples can seemingly slip back to their childhood years when they are together, and still be accepted by one another as a powerful form of sincere love. For that matter, may the two of you be romantic well into your 70s! Moving back onto the topic, I thought I would babble off a bunch! Some of them are actual suggestions, some are just for the hilarious imagery it brings to mind. (And may it bring you a good chuckle, too!) Thri-Kreen: A real suggestion. While still remaining generally humanoid, there is still a practical and sometimes even personable mentality. Already accepted as a playable race in Athas. Not only do you get your dignity, freakishness, and leadership (Tribe style), but you get a strong barbarian or warrior spirit to go along with it! Mind Flayer: A funny suggestion. I think we can all see why this didn't work out between the two of you, but when it comes to being a leader there are few as good as the Mind Flayer! Death Slaadi: By all means, a Death Slaadi would most definatly be a powerful barbarian, a past of great leadership. On second thought, this might be a little too evil. Artist Genie: A classic girlfriend of the starving artist variety. While she may be a walking cliche, she certainly counts as exotic in attire, strange in appearance, and only attractive to other genies. An inspiration to others on many levels, this lady could alternate confused ravings with calm polite explanations. Rogue Inevitable: Also classic rogue modron fodder. This one could be vaguely attractive while still being freakish. Issues arise with tactical genius vs cold lack of emotion or simply burgoning emotions. Confident, not Naive is the dish of the day. She could lead bandits, politicans, rebels, militia, faction idealists or anything else your heart desires. Giff: These powerful hippo-oids are militaristic by nature, which may suit your desire both for some barbarism and leadership, bearing scars and pride yet still retaining a goodly amount of personality. She can even weild Muskets like the Umpani from the Wizardry series. Of course, i'm biased, since a good friend of mine plays such a Great Hippo.
Arilou_skiff 07-18-03, 05:43 PM	A Hound archon might work (they certainly have presence if not the actual looks) but they're LG. If you want a celestial I'd suggest a Guardinal instead (Eladrin tend to be to humanoid)
riceisnice 07-19-03, 01:35 AM	A good ol' half-orc could always fit the bill. Or are they not weird enough?
Fox Lee 07-19-03, 07:55 AM	Nei: Sorry, I didn't mean to skip yours - I just missed it on the way through ^^; A Night Hag... not really appropriate. As silly as it is to say on this thread, given what I asked for... they're a bit too ugly ^^; What I mean is, they're unattractive in the wrong kind of way. They're sort of... scrawny, old-lady kinda ugly, as opposed to kind of cool but reviled by normal people sort of ugly. That, and the world we are playing in would leave her in a bit of a flux, were she an Evil Oustider - in this world, once she ceased being evil, she would also cease being a Night Hag. What she would be then, we're not sure - and I think it's something the GM would prefer not to tackle, for the moment. Mongrelmen? Heh... amusingly, one of my characters had a mongrelman fiancee in a previous game, after she rescued him from some-Darklord-or-other. This was based on the way they were drawn in the module, though, which was basically as mixed-breed anthropomorphs. Judging from the picture of the 3E Mongrelman (well, Mongrelfolk), I can't say I think it's what I'm after. Again, it's not the right type of unattractive - it's all small and pathetic and goblin-y ^^; A Beholder... well, I think I've already covered this one with the "humanoid-ish" requirement ^^; That's a little too far out for this character. Nice pun, though ;p Galor: If I didn't know better, I'd swear you were teasing me ^^; To respond seriously, nonetheless: Apes/Baboons are still, IMO, too animalistic for what I'm after (and, to be totally honest, I don't want her to be stupid). If I were going to go with an animal theme, I'd probably choose a Hengeyoukai - which would actually work rather well if we were in OA, but it doesn't have the right kind of stigma outside of the incredibly insular Japanese-style society. King of Diamonds: Thanks, but... you guessed right ^^; A Lich is, again, just the wrong kind of critter, like the Night Hag or Shadow Spawn. Because - looking back - I haven't already made it clear, I'm after something that's direct and very physically inclined; think a granite cliff rather than a withered tree. She needs to be a very earthy kind of creature; she has a great deal of common sense, and is very wise (in the traditional sense of the word, rather than the Ability Score sense). Tied into this, I want to stay away from Spellcaster classes; aside of the fact that I want her to be a fighter for personal reasons, she's too self-reliant to constantly be calling on outside help, be it from an Arcane source or a Divine one. She believes that she should rely only on her own power. Wizard is doubly out - she would never be studious enough to learn magic - and Illusionist more so, as she doesn't believe that anybody should have to hide their true nature, and would bare hers proudly even if it meant she would be persecuted for it. So thanks, but... not quite right ^^; Iry: Okay - just wanted to clear that up ^_^ Thanks! Mind Flayer: This is another one that falls under the "wrong kind of ugly" category. All gaunt and creepy... certainly unattractive, but not the kind of feral unattractive I'm after. Psionics don't really fit the bill, either - possibly she could be a PsiWarrior, but any race that is naturally inclined to Powers over power sort of jars. Slaad are kind of cool, but I don't think they fit. Aside of the fifteen Outsider hit dice, which probably make her a bit too powerful, Death Slaadi get a whole bunch of Spell-Likes to focus on, as well as changing form (which falls in with Illusions) and Stunning Fist (which just doesn't suit her - her version of "stunning fist" would simply be punching a hole through the chest ;p). Artist Genie is too inappropriate, I think ^^; Aside of the magical inclination, I can't see her ever being "polite" ;p That, and the "slave in a bottle" theme always hovers around genie girlfriends... ugh! XP Rogue Inevitable: Them, I would have to get a visual on to say for sure; I don't really know these lads from a side of cheese. As you may have guessed from the earlier parts of this post, though, emotionless and tactical genius aren't really the kinds of thematics that I'm after. I apologise; I should have dropped words like "feral" and "uncivilised" a lot sooner ^^; I would have included a lot more information when I started the thread, I guess, but I thought people would ignore the request if it involved a lot of heavy reading ^^; Giff: These sound pretty interesting, that's for sure. Though, if they have anything resembling the body shape of a hippo I'll probably pass, for personal reasons ^^; That, and while muskets can be nifty, guns would probably fall too close to "relying on outside sources" for her nature - and she'd be far more comfortable in close combat ;p Arilou_skiff: Yup... that might cause a problem in this game world, too, since it would be an Outsider doing an Alignment change. I'm still tempted to try wrangle one, though, or perhaps a Lupinal. Eladrin are interesting, but I'm fairly sure they'd be too powerful for this case ^^; ...Yup, the GM is affirming that one ^^; riceisnice: I think I've covered this ^^; Half-Orcs are great - some of the niftiest characters I have known have been Horcs, one memorable Monk in particular. But I'm looking for something more unusual in this case ^^ On a final note to everybody - I'm really sorry if I seem to not be taking your help for granted ^^; I really do appreciate it! Apologies for not making myself clearer to start with, too - that would have made all of this a lot easier ^^;
ikki 07-19-03, 09:55 AM	Troll Greenhag (or the other kinds, but i think green is best) Feral 1/2 Dragon Werebear Ork (str 50+ hairy accordingly..) Mongrelwomen Yuanti, the snake lady..
Arilou_skiff 07-19-03, 01:19 PM	An Earth Genasi, or some other kind of genie? Minotaur? A Bariaur? (They're CG, pretty uncivilized, not attractive in the human-sense of the word and pretty fighter-ish)
Lord Harley 07-19-03, 05:24 PM	a Minotaur? that would be my vote too. read the DL book Kaz and some other DL books to get an idea on the Minotaur. LH
Ropp'cht'cht 07-21-03, 04:46 AM	You mentioned Oriental Adventures; have you considered the Nezumi? They're rat people (certainly ugly enough), but not of the weak, skitterish sort - on the contrary, they're tough, capable survivors. (I must admit that I love the giff idea, however. :rofl: )
The_Dark_One 07-21-03, 05:10 AM	Is a psuedo-natural elf out of the question? Pale skin- slightly too sharp features, happens to leave a faint snail-trail of fresh blood on everything she touches?:eek:
Fox Lee 07-21-03, 12:26 PM	The_Dark_One: A psuedo-natural something could work well, but an elf wouldn't be a terribly appropriate choice (too elfy... slim and small and dexterous and stuff). Blood trails are making for some intriguing ideas... Ropp'cht'cht: I've considered the but they fell into the "too small" category (as I've mentioned, I do want her to be taller than him). Maybe a freakishly large one, or one that was templated... part of me wonders about whacking the Feral template on one of 'em :p Oh, and on an amusing note, the boyfriend character is an anthropomorphic cat ^_^ Mind you, it would be kind of cheating, for me, since I find rats absolutely adorable ;p Lord Harley: Minotaur is definitely up there with the best of them... one of the front runners ATM ^_^ Arilou_skiff: Genies are out, I think - power levels and all ^^; Earth Genasi is still high on the list. Minotaur - see above ^_^ A Bariaur I would need a refernec for - I don't recognise it by name ^^; ikki: I'll probably pass on Trolls... they might work, but base don the images, they're rather stringy and drawn-out, which isn't quite the kind of build I'm looking for. That, and regeneration is probably a bit too powerful ^^; The hags are much like liches and Mind Flayers and Shadow Spawn - not bad, but not the kind of unattractive that I'm after. Feral 1/2 Dragon Werebear Ork is actually rather tempting, though I'd probably look to ditch Orc for one of the low-ECL races on the list, like the ol' Earth Genasi. I' really liking the idea of making her a lycanthrope, though, whatever her base race turns out to be. She'd work great as almost any kind... Hmmm. Half-Dragon Werewolf Earth-Genasi... that's sounding pretty nice... Yuanti, prolly not. The thematics don't really fit, from what I can see - and I've seen too many psuedo-seductress Yuan-ti NPCs for my liking XP
The One and Only... 07-21-03, 03:32 PM	How about an orc? Maybe that's too commonplace. So how about an orc that has the half-elemental template, with the whole earth thing going on. Or maybe some kinda freaky undead.
Ropp'cht'cht 07-21-03, 05:12 PM	I'd hazard the bugbear, though it may not have enough "presence and style." Have you thought about a wemic? If your pc is an anthro cat, might be too close (and you might want anything that looks like a dog instead), but might be just right. Finally, you mentioned gnolls, so you might want to consider a flind gnoll; a bit smaller, but still quite large and with a great deal more presence and leadership ability. Apologies if someone pointed out one of these already and I missed it. (Too bad this isn't Star Wars, since a Wookie seems like it would be just the ticket. ;)) I think Jimmy Soul would approve of this thread. ;) "If you wanna be happy for the rest of your life..."
texaskron 07-21-03, 07:31 PM	I agree, this is a fun topic. :) Hey, hop on over to the Athas forum in Other Roleplaying Worlds and ask/read about the Mul - a half-dwarf half-human mix - they are tougher than oxen, and do not have any body hair, and average slightly taller than hoomans. Links seem to be down on my end... Don't forget the Frost Giant idea... maybe she's also a werebear with the half-elemental template. ;) Hee hee.
Arilou_skiff 07-21-03, 07:38 PM	Originally posted by Fox Lee [B]Arilou_skiff: Genies are out, I think - power levels and all ^^; Earth Genasi is still high on the list. Minotaur - see above ^_^ A Bariaur I would need a refernec for - I don't recognise it by name ^^; Bariaurs can be found in the Manual of the Planes, they are basically CG denizens of Ysgard, looking like a goat-centaur if you get the picture...
Fox Lee 07-22-03, 01:04 AM	The One and Only...:An elemental Orc could be pretty cool ^.^ I could use elementally-themed twists to tweak their design until it was suitable... Ropp'cht'cht: Bugbear... maybe, maybe not. I think I'd have to take certain liberties with the design from the book... something about snub-noses that's tough to respect, a trair which anything Goblin-oid tends to share ^^; Bugbears certainly have the look of a comedy element, at the moment. A Wemic is a pretty funky idea ^_^ I'm not too concerned about it being close to his race (Though I don't recall them exactly, I think Wemics are pretty different, thematically - his race, Abilen, get a CHA and WIS bonus, STR and CON penalty). And if I really wanted it, it wouldn't be a problem to use canine elements instead of Feline, on a Wemic ^^ Flind Gnolls I've not heard of, but they sound verrah interesting ^^ Whereabouts might I find them? As for Wookiees - yeah, they'd be about perfect ^^; ... Now that I think about it, it would be very, very easy to import a Wookiee into D&D. Whacking a planetouched elemental template (or, indeed, the Feral template or similar) on one would probaly give me exactly what I'm looking for. This is intriguing... texaskron: ...But so do these guys. I think I'll have to take a look at them. *notes to go hunting* Arilou_skiff: Sort of Satyr-like, then? That could be cool ^^ They have a humanoid upper half?
The_Dark_One 07-22-03, 03:45 AM	A Tauric gnoll/grizzly bear? Tauric creatures are found in the Monster Manual Two, I think.
Ropp'cht'cht 07-23-03, 01:44 AM	I'm not sure where flinds have been officially converted to 3E, but you can view a free conversion from the EN World Creature Catalog *here.* (http://www.enworld.org/cc/converted/humanoid/flind.htm) (The catalog is a great free source for monsters, btw.) I think it would be great if your character really would rather kiss a Wookiee. ;)
Arilou_skiff 07-23-03, 08:55 AM	Originally posted by Fox Lee The One and Only...:An elemental Orc could be pretty cool ^.^ I could use elementally-themed twists to tweak their design until it was suitable... Ropp'cht'cht: Bugbear... maybe, maybe not. I think I'd have to take certain liberties with the design from the book... something about snub-noses that's tough to respect, a trair which anything Goblin-oid tends to share ^^; Bugbears certainly have the look of a comedy element, at the moment. A Wemic is a pretty funky idea ^_^ I'm not too concerned about it being close to his race (Though I don't recall them exactly, I think Wemics are pretty different, thematically - his race, Abilen, get a CHA and WIS bonus, STR and CON penalty). And if I really wanted it, it wouldn't be a problem to use canine elements instead of Feline, on a Wemic ^^ Flind Gnolls I've not heard of, but they sound verrah interesting ^^ Whereabouts might I find them? As for Wookiees - yeah, they'd be about perfect ^^; ... Now that I think about it, it would be very, very easy to import a Wookiee into D&D. Whacking a planetouched elemental template (or, indeed, the Feral template or similar) on one would probaly give me exactly what I'm looking for. This is intriguing... texaskron: ...But so do these guys. I think I'll have to take a look at them. *notes to go hunting* Arilou_skiff: Sort of Satyr-like, then? That could be cool ^^ They have a humanoid upper half? Yeah, with horns for the males (I believe females are horn-less though) You don't have the MOTP?
Arilou_skiff 07-23-03, 08:59 AM	This is a picture of a (Male) Bariaur from the MOTP, but it's really bad, the 2nd. ed. PS MC had a much better one (these ones looks to scrawmny) http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/MotP/Bariaur.jpg
samba 07-24-03, 02:15 PM	Think for a moment! Who belches whenever she can when she gets ale? Who's boistrous but excititing when she fights? Who's muscular and a bit chunky with a booming deep voice and not like a Dryad whatsoever? Think of it and choose. Firbolg or a Harpy works I think!:eek:
dirk hightower 07-24-03, 02:53 PM	"I'm already engaged to the most wonderful boy alive" wait, wait, wait...... we're engaged?!? I hardly know you.... Anyway, what about something simple like a dark gnome, or dueregaress...... would a drow be too pretty? You can call me Spoog'ums .... now that we're an item...
Fox Lee 07-25-03, 12:43 AM	Arilou_Skiff: I see... interesting. Um... does either gender get hair? ^^; Samba: Harpy is well and truly out - they're just not the right kind of critter, particularly with the lruing-men-to-their-deaths and high-CHA and all. Now a Firbolg, that's a a front-runner option ^^ dirk hightower: No offense, Spoogums, but if we were going to be an item, you'd have to pull your head out of your butt to make room for my strap-on ;p Meanwhile, as for underdark races - not a bad idea thematically, but gnomes are out because they're simply too small, and Drow are totally out - aside of the fact that they have a CON penalty and a CHA bonus, and are inclined toward magic, they're also one of the most cliche'd "exoctic girlfriend" races ever (probably because no matter how evil, they are always depicted as being stunningly gorgeous - at least, if they're not male *spits*). But I'd prefer to stay away from the skanky spidersluts, in this case.
Arilou_skiff 07-25-03, 10:48 AM	Originally posted by Fox Lee Arilou_Skiff: I see... interesting. Um... does either gender get hair? ^^; I do believe the pictures in the 2nd. ed. Monstrous Compendium had hair, it's pretty much depends on the artist it seems. I always imagined them covered in wool, except for their faces :) (the males of course, have beards)
dirk hightower 07-25-03, 12:00 PM	Strap-on ?!? Sorry, Foxy-baby, but the engagement's off... Does/do your other potential suitors know about that? Ah, love...... easy come, easy go...
Fox Lee 07-26-03, 06:34 AM	Originally posted by dirk hightower Strap-on ?!? Sorry, Foxy-baby, but the engagement's off... Does/do your other potential suitors know about that? "Foxy"? Ahh, see, that proves you never knew me from a side of cheese in the first place. And of course he does, silly! We're engaged - and unlike apparently all of the other engaged couples I seem to meet, we actually don't keep secrets from each other. Not that I would've wanted to keep that secret anyways - he would've been less interested ;p
Cloud Strife 07-26-03, 08:44 PM	Thought about something in the line oh half giant/half human sorta way? Could be 8-10 ft tall and maybe be all blue or sumthin.... just a thought...
Ropp'cht'cht 07-27-03, 01:34 AM	Please let us know what you pick whenever you do. I'm sure everyone will be very interested to hear what you decide on. ;)
Fox Lee 07-27-03, 06:08 AM	Oh, don't worry, I'll definitely let you guys know what I end up with ^_^ You've been a great help, just for providing ideas if nothing else ^^ On that note, a Half-Giant is something I hadn't even thought of, and I've no idea why Oo; *writes that down on the list* That's a good one!
Ogre Mage 07-27-03, 10:46 AM	A centaur A gnoll A reformed harpy A taer (Unapproachable East) A half-dragon
Herr Doktor 07-27-03, 04:07 PM	What about a Hag of some sort? He met with her in secret in her pestilence ridden bog. Your choice of Hag, but the Bheur from the Forgotten Realms Unapproachable East region supplement has the power to change from Medium-size to Large as a standard action.
Cli' San Aquanova 07-27-03, 05:59 PM	Earth Genasi is a good choice. They aren't always unattractive either. The female Earth Genasi in Races of Faerun is kinda cute. :u:
Herr Doktor 07-27-03, 10:46 PM	Originally posted by Cli' San Aquanova Earth Genasi is a good choice. They aren't always unattractive either. The female Earth Genasi in Races of Faerun is kinda cute. :u: Also, a possible racial trait of Earth Genasi is to sweat mud. Which is very cute. ;)
Random bloke 07-28-03, 04:26 PM	Not contributing anything - just want to thank this thread for inspiring me with a Githyanki pirate leader(ess) and/or Githzerai admiral/coast town defender. Going to make a cool story...
Xalxika 07-28-03, 05:29 PM	A blackguard half-elf with short spiked hair and a *****y attitude.
Fox Lee 07-28-03, 08:24 PM	Originally posted by Xalxika A blackguard half-elf with short spiked hair and a *****y attitude. Um... okay, thanks, but have you read any of this thread? Half-elves don't have anywhere near the requirements, and Blackguard is out from the word "go", because she's not evil, PERIOD. That is something I will not budge on.
Lhiannon Sidhe 07-28-03, 08:27 PM	A silver dragon? They can assume a humanoid shape... in fact, they prefer it.
Vaalingrade Ashland 07-28-03, 11:25 PM	Fear my template powers: Feral Reptillian Human Female (who needs to be anything else considering she's feral and reptillian?) Anthropomorphic Scorpion. Reformed Marilith Half-Golem Reformed Yaun-ti
BetterButterBuddha 07-29-03, 11:50 PM	From what little I've scanned of this post, I think I have a pretty good idea of what you're looking for. And accordingly, I have a suggestion: What about fey? You're looking for the unconventionally attractive, so have you even seen some of the fey? For your humanoid types, there's the nymph, obviously, but if you're looking for something a little more inhuman, the dryad is pretty interesting... nothing like stroking your lover's hair and finding a small branch near her bangs. And some of the fey are anything but beautiful... some are in fact downright ugly... especially the male ones. And of course, the spirit folk are always interesting. If I were you though, and I'm not, I'd go for a half-fey. There's just enough weirdness for them to be considered normally unattractive, but they can be a lot of fun.
ThorvaldHafgrimsson 07-30-03, 02:17 AM	A Mul from Dark Sun if this is a plane hopping campaign. SOme do get away. Mul (pronounced like mule) are Dwarf Human crossbreeds made by wizards for heavy labor and gladitorial combat. THe resemble a hairless dwarf 6 and a half feet tall with bronzed skin and slightly pointed ears. You get Powerful presence Not very classically attractive And Most escapees are veterans of the arena so battle scars are in. If you want to think of the exotic appearance think of Pau Zahn from Farscape - big bald woman, but certainly has sex appeal. Perhaps this helps
The Ultimate Dragongod 07-31-03, 12:38 PM	A half dragon/half human maybe? A female dwarf? half earth elemental/half dwarf a janni? xill (eww) dryads are weird looking. something with the shade template (FRCS)? If you have unusual characters in your party, then I would go for a human. That would be a little strange. As long as she was a pirate captain (privateer captain) and had a scar over her eye and fiery red hair. Usually thinking of specific concepts rather than race excites me much more. For most people, what you do and what you can do is who you are, not what race you are.
alparis 07-31-03, 09:31 PM	I think that you may be overlooking elves and drow based upon 'typical' elves and drow. Think of the female elf ranger from the D&D movie (awful though it was). What about a female Wild Elf Ranger, really bad-ass w/ a bow but kinda dirty, uncouth and wearing cammo. How about a 'good' drow who 'escaped' after significant torture (scarred face, missing limb). I think that this would be unconventionally attractive. I really like the idea of a female dwarf or lycanthrope. I think that you could open up your unconventional options if you used a common race but then added some scarring or whatever to add the edge.
SailorNash 07-31-03, 11:48 PM	::chuckles:: Nothing that I can think to suggest here - everything I could come up with has already been mentioned in some form or fashion. Just wanted to say that I'm quite amised by this thread. Cain't wait to see what you end up with, Fox Lee! :D
Ropp'cht'cht 08-10-03, 10:52 PM	Have you picked a race? :D
Fox Lee 08-11-03, 04:13 AM	Indeed I have... and to be honest, I probably owe an apology to everybody on this thread, because the perfect answer has been staring me in the face since the beginning. I'm sorry, everybody! I can't believe I didn't realise it! ^^;; ThorvaldHafgrimsson, you picked it - we do have Mul in Cobrin'Seil, or at least an almost identical race known as Mull (said like gull). The only differences between the two that I can see, aside of the name (which obviously just came from a mispronounciation), is that Mull are taller (7-8 feet), and aren't bald. So that's perfect ^^; They're seen as being extremely stupid and practically mindless, and useful only as slaves - the mere idea of a free one would be enough to freak most people out. In addition, the fact that Mull are rarely created as females means that she'll be even more reviled, and that she'll perfectly fill the "collector's piece" requirement for being in the same household as my character in the first place. So yeah. Apologies again to everybody who helped ^^; I really should have picked up on that one!
Ropp'cht'cht 08-12-03, 02:14 AM	No problem. Sounds like you picked the perfect race, and I think everybody had a good time!