Vampire hunter. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Vampire hunter. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Oldmangray
06-22-07, 09:57 AM yo im in a bit of a pickel one of my long term players has just returned. to play and the party has just arrived in a vampire haunted town, i was thinking of bringing in the old player as a vampire hunter but i dont know what to make him with im not just looking for a /fighter cleric with falvour but a had class/ P-class that he could delve into.

its a low magic/almost steampunk era. but i can make most things cludge.
BroadStreetBully
06-22-07, 05:54 PM why not a ranger with undead as a favored enemy?
Stormbrand
06-22-07, 09:11 PM why not a ranger with undead as a favored enemy?

Because they are monumentally poor at hunting undead. That's why.

yo im in a bit of a pickel one of my long term players has just returned. to play and the party has just arrived in a vampire haunted town, i was thinking of bringing in the old player as a vampire hunter but i dont know what to make him with im not just looking for a /fighter cleric with falvour but a had class/ P-class that he could delve into.

its a low magic/almost steampunk era. but i can make most things cludge.

Hunter of the Dead. Requires Turn Undead and the independant class spellcasting does not mesh very well, but kicks undead ass quite spectacularly.
BroadStreetBully
06-22-07, 10:37 PM Because they are monumentally poor at hunting undead. That's why.

I'm not convinced. At level 1, a ranger would already get +2 damage against undead, as well as attempts to bluff/track/sense motive, etc. Furthermore, a ranger/scout with Improved Skirmish, Swift Stalker, and Greater Manyshot would be pretty effective against vampires. Not only that, but this build is pretty effective against things other than undead as well.

"Hunter of the Dead. Requires Turn Undead and the independant class spellcasting does not mesh very well, but kicks undead ass quite spectacularly."

It is a nifty PrC if all the players are fighting is undead, but pretty ineffective should any other type of opponent arrive on the scene.
TheAnthroDM
06-22-07, 11:23 PM I'm not convinced. At level 1, a ranger would already get +2 damage against undead, as well as attempts to bluff/track/sense motive, etc. Furthermore, a ranger/scout with Improved Skirmish, Swift Stalker, and Greater Manyshot would be pretty effective against vampires. Not only that, but this build is pretty effective against things other than undead as well.

"Hunter of the Dead. Requires Turn Undead and the independant class spellcasting does not mesh very well, but kicks undead ass quite spectacularly."

It is a nifty PrC if all the players are fighting is undead, but pretty ineffective should any other type of opponent arrive on the scene.

*cough* Vampire Haunted Town * cough*
Charke
06-22-07, 11:51 PM I would play a cleric. They aren't bad fighters and they can wear armor. They get turn undead and you can look through the domains for some handy abilities. The healing is a perk and they can get rid of many of the nasty side effects undead inflict like level draining and stat damage. There are also a hoard of prestige classes which clerics move into fairly easily for hunting undead.

Mark Charke
Oldmangray
06-23-07, 02:47 AM yeah that would be nice except that there are no gods in this campaign anymore one of the other groups i dm killed the gods and collected there divine sparks to power there doomsday device.
Stormbrand
06-23-07, 05:18 PM I'm not convinced. At level 1, a ranger would already get +2 damage against undead, as well as attempts to bluff/track/sense motive, etc. Furthermore, a ranger/scout with Improved Skirmish, Swift Stalker, and Greater Manyshot would be pretty effective against vampires. Not only that, but this build is pretty effective against things other than undead as well.

Undead are immune to critical hits, and thus the bonus damage from favoured enemy. Bluff or Sense Motive checks against undead require getting them into conversation, which in my experience is rare.

Track is useless against incorporeal undead, or vampires who turn gaseous or bat, that and these nifty inventions called boots can make undead footprints bear a striking resemblance to those left by the boots of the living. ;) Many other undead, such as zombies, should be no trouble to track without the bonus.

Stealth skills work the same way. Against weak or mindless undead there should be no need of the bonus. Greater undead have things such as Lifesense (Wraiths, Spectres) which makes stealth skills virtually pointless, and the vampire template gives +11 to Spot/Listen and so on between racial bonuses, the Alertness feat, and increased WIS. The contest will heavily favour the vampire regardless of Favoured Enemy.

Spot and Listen checks follow the same pattern. Stealthy undead are very stealthy, with incorporeal undead (wraiths, shadows & spectres) moving completely silently (no Listen check allowed) and hide in solid objects (hiding from Spot without a roll). Vampires again are +10 to Hide and Move Silently between their innate skill bonus and their innate DEX bonus. Again, the advantage is too great for Favoured Enemy to have much success.

Ghouls, Mohrgs, Wights and Vampire Spawn are the only undead where the skill bonuses will matter.

Skirmish does not work on undead, as they are immune to critical hits.

If you MAX Hide, Move Silently, Listen & Spot AND Favoured Enemy Undead, you might be competitive in the skill department. Not a bad idea really, but trying to match the strengths of your enemy is a costly way of operating.

My point is that the combat abilities will outright fail, and the skills will not get full use to make them worth the investment.
TheAnthroDM
06-23-07, 10:18 PM Undead are immune to critical hits, and thus the bonus damage from favoured enemy.

Wrong. Favored enemy bonus damage always applies, it's impossible to be immune to it.
BroadStreetBully
06-24-07, 02:33 AM yeah, and Swift Hunter allows your skirmish damage to apply to all favored enemies (even ones normally immune to critical hits/precision damage).

and furthermore, i have yet to play in a campaign where the party ONLY encounters undead. and even if their current campaign is 99% undead, chances are the next one will have a more even mixture of undead/humanoids/giants/aberrations/etc.
Stormbrand
06-24-07, 07:14 AM Wrong. Favored enemy bonus damage always applies, it's impossible to be immune to it.

Must be something that they fixed in 3.5. *shrug* Perhaps this is what comes with not spending Ł20 pounds on a book which you already have. I am actually glad that they changed it, since it makes the ability more viable.

Not sure why we are starting things in bold. :P

yeah, and Swift Hunter allows your skirmish damage to apply to all favored enemies (even ones normally immune to critical hits/precision damage).

and furthermore, i have yet to play in a campaign where the party ONLY encounters undead. and even if their current campaign is 99% undead, chances are the next one will have a more even mixture of undead/humanoids/giants/aberrations/etc.

Swift Hunter is a feat I have never heard of, which should be great if the DM allows the appropriate book.

Hunter of the Dead can take Divine Feats to keep their Turn Undead uses helpful against other foes. If Fighter is one of the base classes, then the bonus feats should cover basic combat allowing him to feasibly take more Divine Feats. A primarily Fighter-based Hunter of the Dead will also get good use of his spells.
Fithero
06-24-07, 08:03 AM Why dont you be undead yourself? It could throw an interesting aspect on the character.

You could have chosen to become a necropolitan to even the odds against other undead or you could have been born a half-vampire and decide that you hate all undead (sorta like D).

Perhaps even the Curst template could be used, but i dont have any info on that template at hand currently.

Anyway, as i said. Being undead throws an interesting spin on your place in the party, do the others trust you to have their backs against the vampires even though your undead too?

As for class, perhaps your a wandering knight? You somehow *know* that if you werent born (or made) undead, that you would have been called to be a paladin. Since that path is forever barred to you, you try and emulate it through the beliefes of a knight.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Oldmangray 06-22-07, 09:57 AM	yo im in a bit of a pickel one of my long term players has just returned. to play and the party has just arrived in a vampire haunted town, i was thinking of bringing in the old player as a vampire hunter but i dont know what to make him with im not just looking for a /fighter cleric with falvour but a had class/ P-class that he could delve into. its a low magic/almost steampunk era. but i can make most things cludge.
BroadStreetBully 06-22-07, 05:54 PM	why not a ranger with undead as a favored enemy?
Stormbrand 06-22-07, 09:11 PM	why not a ranger with undead as a favored enemy? Because they are monumentally poor at hunting undead. That's why. yo im in a bit of a pickel one of my long term players has just returned. to play and the party has just arrived in a vampire haunted town, i was thinking of bringing in the old player as a vampire hunter but i dont know what to make him with im not just looking for a /fighter cleric with falvour but a had class/ P-class that he could delve into. its a low magic/almost steampunk era. but i can make most things cludge. Hunter of the Dead. Requires Turn Undead and the independant class spellcasting does not mesh very well, but kicks undead ass quite spectacularly.
BroadStreetBully 06-22-07, 10:37 PM	Because they are monumentally poor at hunting undead. That's why. I'm not convinced. At level 1, a ranger would already get +2 damage against undead, as well as attempts to bluff/track/sense motive, etc. Furthermore, a ranger/scout with Improved Skirmish, Swift Stalker, and Greater Manyshot would be pretty effective against vampires. Not only that, but this build is pretty effective against things other than undead as well. "Hunter of the Dead. Requires Turn Undead and the independant class spellcasting does not mesh very well, but kicks undead ass quite spectacularly." It is a nifty PrC if all the players are fighting is undead, but pretty ineffective should any other type of opponent arrive on the scene.
TheAnthroDM 06-22-07, 11:23 PM	I'm not convinced. At level 1, a ranger would already get +2 damage against undead, as well as attempts to bluff/track/sense motive, etc. Furthermore, a ranger/scout with Improved Skirmish, Swift Stalker, and Greater Manyshot would be pretty effective against vampires. Not only that, but this build is pretty effective against things other than undead as well. "Hunter of the Dead. Requires Turn Undead and the independant class spellcasting does not mesh very well, but kicks undead ass quite spectacularly." It is a nifty PrC if all the players are fighting is undead, but pretty ineffective should any other type of opponent arrive on the scene. cough Vampire Haunted Town * cough*
Charke 06-22-07, 11:51 PM	I would play a cleric. They aren't bad fighters and they can wear armor. They get turn undead and you can look through the domains for some handy abilities. The healing is a perk and they can get rid of many of the nasty side effects undead inflict like level draining and stat damage. There are also a hoard of prestige classes which clerics move into fairly easily for hunting undead. Mark Charke
Oldmangray 06-23-07, 02:47 AM	yeah that would be nice except that there are no gods in this campaign anymore one of the other groups i dm killed the gods and collected there divine sparks to power there doomsday device.
Stormbrand 06-23-07, 05:18 PM	I'm not convinced. At level 1, a ranger would already get +2 damage against undead, as well as attempts to bluff/track/sense motive, etc. Furthermore, a ranger/scout with Improved Skirmish, Swift Stalker, and Greater Manyshot would be pretty effective against vampires. Not only that, but this build is pretty effective against things other than undead as well. Undead are immune to critical hits, and thus the bonus damage from favoured enemy. Bluff or Sense Motive checks against undead require getting them into conversation, which in my experience is rare. Track is useless against incorporeal undead, or vampires who turn gaseous or bat, that and these nifty inventions called boots can make undead footprints bear a striking resemblance to those left by the boots of the living. ;) Many other undead, such as zombies, should be no trouble to track without the bonus. Stealth skills work the same way. Against weak or mindless undead there should be no need of the bonus. Greater undead have things such as Lifesense (Wraiths, Spectres) which makes stealth skills virtually pointless, and the vampire template gives +11 to Spot/Listen and so on between racial bonuses, the Alertness feat, and increased WIS. The contest will heavily favour the vampire regardless of Favoured Enemy. Spot and Listen checks follow the same pattern. Stealthy undead are very stealthy, with incorporeal undead (wraiths, shadows & spectres) moving completely silently (no Listen check allowed) and hide in solid objects (hiding from Spot without a roll). Vampires again are +10 to Hide and Move Silently between their innate skill bonus and their innate DEX bonus. Again, the advantage is too great for Favoured Enemy to have much success. Ghouls, Mohrgs, Wights and Vampire Spawn are the only undead where the skill bonuses will matter. Skirmish does not work on undead, as they are immune to critical hits. If you MAX Hide, Move Silently, Listen & Spot AND Favoured Enemy Undead, you might be competitive in the skill department. Not a bad idea really, but trying to match the strengths of your enemy is a costly way of operating. My point is that the combat abilities will outright fail, and the skills will not get full use to make them worth the investment.
TheAnthroDM 06-23-07, 10:18 PM	Undead are immune to critical hits, and thus the bonus damage from favoured enemy. Wrong. Favored enemy bonus damage always applies, it's impossible to be immune to it.
BroadStreetBully 06-24-07, 02:33 AM	yeah, and Swift Hunter allows your skirmish damage to apply to all favored enemies (even ones normally immune to critical hits/precision damage). and furthermore, i have yet to play in a campaign where the party ONLY encounters undead. and even if their current campaign is 99% undead, chances are the next one will have a more even mixture of undead/humanoids/giants/aberrations/etc.
Stormbrand 06-24-07, 07:14 AM	Wrong. Favored enemy bonus damage always applies, it's impossible to be immune to it. Must be something that they fixed in 3.5. shrug Perhaps this is what comes with not spending Ł20 pounds on a book which you already have. I am actually glad that they changed it, since it makes the ability more viable. Not sure why we are starting things in bold. :P yeah, and Swift Hunter allows your skirmish damage to apply to all favored enemies (even ones normally immune to critical hits/precision damage). and furthermore, i have yet to play in a campaign where the party ONLY encounters undead. and even if their current campaign is 99% undead, chances are the next one will have a more even mixture of undead/humanoids/giants/aberrations/etc. Swift Hunter is a feat I have never heard of, which should be great if the DM allows the appropriate book. Hunter of the Dead can take Divine Feats to keep their Turn Undead uses helpful against other foes. If Fighter is one of the base classes, then the bonus feats should cover basic combat allowing him to feasibly take more Divine Feats. A primarily Fighter-based Hunter of the Dead will also get good use of his spells.
Fithero 06-24-07, 08:03 AM	Why dont you be undead yourself? It could throw an interesting aspect on the character. You could have chosen to become a necropolitan to even the odds against other undead or you could have been born a half-vampire and decide that you hate all undead (sorta like D). Perhaps even the Curst template could be used, but i dont have any info on that template at hand currently. Anyway, as i said. Being undead throws an interesting spin on your place in the party, do the others trust you to have their backs against the vampires even though your undead too? As for class, perhaps your a wandering knight? You somehow know that if you werent born (or made) undead, that you would have been called to be a paladin. Since that path is forever barred to you, you try and emulate it through the beliefes of a knight.