We need sea-legs... [Archive] - Wizards Community

We need sea-legs... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Epicuris
07-06-03, 09:48 PM My DM just got back from the movie "Sinbad" and was inspired. Apparently, we're going to have some high-seas adventure and being the arcane spellcaster of the group, I have no idea where to begin.

So far, I've considered using a sorcerer because it's obvious we're not going to have tremendous access to libraries and ways for a wizard to expand his number of spells. Not to mention ol' DM said we were going to be paid in magic items, not cash, so that's another reason to go sorcerer.

The problem I'm having is skills. Profession (sailor) is "duh," but I was also thinking of Balance, Climb, and Jump. Any other suggestions would be helpful.

Thanks.
sico
07-06-03, 10:19 PM yeah. there is a pirate prc in the song and silence book. check it out. never saw sinbad so not sure if it helps, but eh. Who knows. But if you have to be an arcane caster, than no i can't help ya.
ShoshuroKaigen
07-07-03, 12:44 AM Maybe a water or air elemental savant? Or a fatespinner of luck? Maybe a rogue/sorcere combination arcane trickster?
ShadeGirl
07-09-03, 07:17 PM Oh, my gosh! You are so lucky! I've *always* wanted to do a sea campaign for SOOOO long!!!! The last campaign I was in, I begged the DM for something of that nature to no avail. I just know that you'll have a great time! :)
Baron Phylos
07-09-03, 08:39 PM Alter Self is probably a must, basic fly and water breathing spells rolled up into one.
Anduin_Lothar.
07-09-03, 09:27 PM If you are going to be a spellcaster (and maybe get away with some stuff) see if your DM has the "Arms and Equiptment Guide". In that is a chapter about vehicles, specifically boats and the like. There are rules about spellcasting on rough waters and/or concentration checks. If the DM doesn't have it, then you might be able to get away with your spell not going dead in the middle of a hurricane. Just a thought.
Talmariel
07-09-03, 10:57 PM As the ship's sorcerer (I presume, at least), I doubt you'd be called upon as a hand on deck, so I might honestly forget Profession (sailor). Sorcerer's have few precious skill points as it is, after all. High Concentration is a must, especially if your DM pays attention to casting while on unstable ground. I wouldn't fear the Wizard, because I'm sure you could convince your DM to have your magic item payment in scrolls. Not to mention, lost underwater treasure. Either way, it's up to you. If you're the actual ship's wizard instead of just a traveler, I would expect the captain to accomodate you with a personal study replete with library material. Check out the Stronghold Builder's Guidebook for library rules; you could get a half-library, I bet.

As for spell repetoire, that's really up to your level of play. I'll tell you some big picks for sea-faring casters by level.

0th: Mending (think torn sails and smashed rudders)

1st: Endure elements (for those cold nights at sea), Detect Undead (in case your DM watches Pirates of the Carribean, too), Animate Rope, and Spider Climb

2nd: Protection from Arrows, Resist Elements, Whispering Wind

3rd: Sleet Storm, Gust of Wind (big must), Wind Wall (same thing as the gust), Water Breathing

Some other ideas would be to pick up Craft Wonderous Item when you think you can spare some XP and try to enchant your ship. No kidding on this one. Think about a ship enchanted with Freedom of Movement, or one that grants Protection from Arrows. Even a ship that can turn Ethereal, or even Teleport and Plane Shift when you're high enough level! That's all up to your DM, of course, but I know there's similar rules in Stronghold Builder's Guidebook for Wonderous Architecture, and it translates beautifully to ships.

Oh yeah, and area damage is good, too. :b:
Aeolius
07-10-03, 01:08 PM Originally posted by ShadeGirl
I've *always* wanted to do a sea campaign for SOOOO long!!!! The last campaign I was in, I begged the DM for something of that nature to no avail.

How about an undersea adventure? :D
ShadeGirl
07-10-03, 01:32 PM Well, we did do an undersea adventure that was extremely stressful! But our chars were high level at that time, so it wasn't so much of a problem. I would like to experiement my chars with a sort of 'swashbuckling' adventure before they are too high level to take the fun out of it. :)
Aeolius
07-10-03, 02:28 PM Originally posted by ShadeGirl
Well, we did do an undersea adventure that was extremely stressful! But our chars were high level at that time, so it wasn't so much of a problem.

My undersea campaign begins with the assumption that PCs can both swim and breathe underwater. That helps take most of the "air-breathers adventuring underwater" stigma out of it.
Kharne
07-10-03, 10:05 PM There is a Sea Witch prestige in the 1st Relics and Rituals book. It's pretty good for that type of game if I remember correctly. The prestige is specifically tailored to have a caster interact with a ship and with the seas.

Your concern about skill points is exactly why we've house ruled +2 skill points/level to every class. It simply allows players to add more "character" to their character...outside their class at least.

I agree with Talmariel about your skill point dilemma (and that concentration is a MUST). If you were to use any skill points for sea skills, i'd probably go for navigation or something like that...leave the hoisting of sails to the meats in your party ;)
Dougan Axehammer
07-14-03, 04:48 PM Important ability scores would be CHA (for being a sorceror or, if you decide, being a bard), CON (for concentration, hp, and fortitude saves), DEX (for balance, reflex saves, and AC), and INT (for skill points (you'll need a lot) and, if you decide, being a wizard).

I agree in saying go with a sorceror. The spell selection is more specialized than a wizard's and more direct a bard's, and there is more free reign in casting than a wizard would have. I'm not saying the other classes aren't good, but the sorceror is the best of the three. If you want a second choice, I'd flip a coin between wizard and bard. Both are equal in this case; the stronghold idea is intriguing, but a bard can do more than just cast spells (mutiny anyone?) and both get a splendid amout of skill points and skill selection.

And speaking of skills, concentration is definitely a must. So is balance, and I'd house rule a synergy bonus for concentration on a swaying boat; the DCs are very high (for low level characters), and uncast (or miscast) spells can be very unfortunate. I'd also take at least a few ranks in swim and profession: sailor; all hands on deck means all hands, and if the ship starts to sink I can't think of a spell that would help you (except for water breathing.) Any other "seaworthy" skill would be an elective (although Knowledge: Geography and Intuit Direction and Wilderness Lore, Survival in 3.5, would make your usefulness aboard ship very, very important.)

The spells I'd choose Talmariel has already listed. They are all very handy on board ship.
Edymnion
07-16-03, 01:52 AM Skills aren't really going to be as big as your spells on a sea campaign. First thing up, get lots of fire spells. If you are going to go up against ship to ship combat, fire will go a LONG way towards helping you. Fireball the sails, a Melf's Fire Arrow (like acid, but learn it with the fire type instead of acid) dug into the hull constantly doing fire damage should set it ablaze.

Be a mobile artillary platform for the ship, with a few repair and support spells. Alter self for gills and webbed hands/feat for better swimming is a good way to go as well.

Try this combo:
Alter self for gills and webbed hands/feat for easy underwater swimming.
Dive overboard when ship to ship combat breaks out.
Swim up under the hull of the enemy ship.
Proceed to blast the daylights out of the bottom of the ship, the least armored/reinforced area on the hull.

Make it sink before the fight gets going.

Skills? Concentration, Spellcraft, Knowledge (arcana), the basic stuff. If you have skillpoints left over, max out Swim.
Random bloke
07-16-03, 01:47 PM Somewhat forgotten: Familiars.

Something that flies, or something that swimms. The whole "everyone can breath underwater" may extend to familiars, but it would be a bit ridiculous. And moving speed...

Flying stuff is always useful... and can accompany you once you get to the coast. Parrots are good for comedy... but nothing else. Eagles and falcons are classic. A raven... especially one that despises the sea... might be a good idea.

Swimming stuff... depends if it can keep up with the ship (unless you're going to put it in a fish bowl... :bored:,) and useless if you're going to spend a quarter of your time or more on land.

If you're spending a quarter of your time under water, and a quarter on land, you might have a problem.
Edymnion
07-17-03, 09:03 PM Originally posted by Random bloke
If you're spending a quarter of your time under water, and a quarter on land, you might have a problem. Not really. You can choose to have any spell you cast on yourself also affect the familiar as long as they stay within what, 5' of you? Use Alter Self to give yourself gills, and let the familiar get gills too. Get a Rat as a familiar. Nobody ever notices the rat, and they're great swimmers.
Trydan
07-18-03, 12:27 PM In my last campaign, I (the DM) was pestered for a ship encounter. So I did one. Little did I realise that one of the players was a closet naval tactician. I lost a 25,000 GP war galley to their leaky tub. But, I'm not bitter...

The PC in question asked for a new skill Knowledge (nautical) to be created. He also took the feat Leadership to command a crew.

PS: with hind sight, the most offensive spell at sea is actually a druid spell... Warp wood. Sound odd? Well, just think about all the planking on your enemy's hull. I wish I had of thought of it earlier!
Dougan Axehammer
07-18-03, 03:23 PM Originally posted by Trydan
with hind sight, the most offensive spell at sea is actually a druid spell... Warp wood. Sound odd? Well, just think about all the planking on your enemy's hull. I wish I had of thought of it earlier!

I had actually thought that a druid might be an interesting change of pace for you, Epicuris. In addition to the interesting prestige classes in MotW, druid skills and spells are good in any terrain setting. For example, the warp wood spell is indeed the most effective (and low level) spell against enemy ships (especially since it won't backfire.) Wilderness lore, as I've mentioned earlier, is a most seaworthy spell. And the druid gets both Concentration and Profession as class skills. Also, druids shape change ability is not limited to types of creatures anymore, only that the druid must be at least familiar with the creature in question and that the creature is of appropriate size. They also have healing spells. And animal companions which can benefit in underwater combat. Some alterations to class abilities may be needed (freedom of movement for woodland stride for instance) but it would still be an interestion choice.

Or even multiclass (wizard/druid, sorceror/druid, or even druid/sorceror). One familiar and an animal companion. Oooo, I'm getting chills think of interesting sea tactics.
strange_person
07-18-03, 08:43 PM Y'know the best ship-combat spell there is?

Evard's black tentacles. Cast on the surface of the water, under the enemy ship. Instant immobilization and almost certain sinkage. If you're a Conjuror, you can cast it twice a day at 7th level.
Sarm Ronan
10-23-03, 11:17 PM I've been running a "swashbuckler" campaign for some time now and I have to say it's been my favourite in almost fifteen years of gaming. I may be getting to this thread late in the game, but if you're interested in this sort of game you should consider picking up AEG's Swashbuckling Adventures. Purists may scoff at the plethora of base classes such as Swashbuckler, Pirate, and Musketeer, but I think each are a wonderful way to go without the need of prestige classes. And...if you do WANT prestige classes...there are over 90 in there. Mostly different sword schools, so pick your favourite blade and learn to fight the way you want. There's also lots of new feats and tons of swashbuckling flavour. It's been a lifesaver for me. Give it a try.
PhaedrusXY
10-24-03, 12:15 AM I ran an adventure once where the BBEG (well... more of a little, mostly harmless, evil guy, but...) was a sorcerer who had a nice folding boat and a bunch of lackeys to man it. He styled himself as a pirate, and used his spells to take over ships. The best killer combo of spells for low to mid levels I came up with for this:

Round 1) Cast Invisibility, shipmates start pelting the enemy ship with X-bows and whatever other ranged weaponry they have.

Rnd 2) Cast Stinking Cloud on the enemy ship, or Cloudkill if you are high enough level.

Rnd 3 to X-1) Start summoning demons onto the enemy ship that are immune to poison. :devil:

Rnd X) Collect your loot.

The feat Augment Summoning would be great if you decide to use this. Also, does the pseudonatural template add immunity to poison? I don't remember. If it does, take a level of alienist. :P You can also summon aquatic creatures to use for non-combat reasons. A level of Mindbender would be good to allow you to communicate with all of your summoned creatures telepathically.

Also, if you can somehow get access to the Raise Water spell, it can be insanely powerful for this kind of game. Specifically, the Lower Water version of it. I once used that version to create a Whirlpool inside a large building once in an undersea adventure. I also had the Freedom of Movement effect on me (Travel Domain special ability), so it didn't affect me really, I just had to stay out of the way of the flying debris as the building started collapsing, bwahahaha! :angel:

I've really enjoyed the sea adventures we've had in one of the current games I'm playing in, both above and below the waves. It would be awesome to play in a campaign centered around that.
Domni Dalrose
10-26-03, 11:15 AM If your interested in a Swashbuckler class, try Silven Crossroads version. I've a character who's 10th level (worked up from 4th) and it's a very fun class to play :)

Swashbuckler core class (http://www.silven.com/adnd.asp?case=show&id=78)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Epicuris 07-06-03, 09:48 PM	My DM just got back from the movie "Sinbad" and was inspired. Apparently, we're going to have some high-seas adventure and being the arcane spellcaster of the group, I have no idea where to begin. So far, I've considered using a sorcerer because it's obvious we're not going to have tremendous access to libraries and ways for a wizard to expand his number of spells. Not to mention ol' DM said we were going to be paid in magic items, not cash, so that's another reason to go sorcerer. The problem I'm having is skills. Profession (sailor) is "duh," but I was also thinking of Balance, Climb, and Jump. Any other suggestions would be helpful. Thanks.
sico 07-06-03, 10:19 PM	yeah. there is a pirate prc in the song and silence book. check it out. never saw sinbad so not sure if it helps, but eh. Who knows. But if you have to be an arcane caster, than no i can't help ya.
ShoshuroKaigen 07-07-03, 12:44 AM	Maybe a water or air elemental savant? Or a fatespinner of luck? Maybe a rogue/sorcere combination arcane trickster?
ShadeGirl 07-09-03, 07:17 PM	Oh, my gosh! You are so lucky! I've always wanted to do a sea campaign for SOOOO long!!!! The last campaign I was in, I begged the DM for something of that nature to no avail. I just know that you'll have a great time! :)
Baron Phylos 07-09-03, 08:39 PM	Alter Self is probably a must, basic fly and water breathing spells rolled up into one.
Anduin_Lothar. 07-09-03, 09:27 PM	If you are going to be a spellcaster (and maybe get away with some stuff) see if your DM has the "Arms and Equiptment Guide". In that is a chapter about vehicles, specifically boats and the like. There are rules about spellcasting on rough waters and/or concentration checks. If the DM doesn't have it, then you might be able to get away with your spell not going dead in the middle of a hurricane. Just a thought.
Talmariel 07-09-03, 10:57 PM	As the ship's sorcerer (I presume, at least), I doubt you'd be called upon as a hand on deck, so I might honestly forget Profession (sailor). Sorcerer's have few precious skill points as it is, after all. High Concentration is a must, especially if your DM pays attention to casting while on unstable ground. I wouldn't fear the Wizard, because I'm sure you could convince your DM to have your magic item payment in scrolls. Not to mention, lost underwater treasure. Either way, it's up to you. If you're the actual ship's wizard instead of just a traveler, I would expect the captain to accomodate you with a personal study replete with library material. Check out the Stronghold Builder's Guidebook for library rules; you could get a half-library, I bet. As for spell repetoire, that's really up to your level of play. I'll tell you some big picks for sea-faring casters by level. 0th: Mending (think torn sails and smashed rudders) 1st: Endure elements (for those cold nights at sea), Detect Undead (in case your DM watches Pirates of the Carribean, too), Animate Rope, and Spider Climb 2nd: Protection from Arrows, Resist Elements, Whispering Wind 3rd: Sleet Storm, Gust of Wind (big must), Wind Wall (same thing as the gust), Water Breathing Some other ideas would be to pick up Craft Wonderous Item when you think you can spare some XP and try to enchant your ship. No kidding on this one. Think about a ship enchanted with Freedom of Movement, or one that grants Protection from Arrows. Even a ship that can turn Ethereal, or even Teleport and Plane Shift when you're high enough level! That's all up to your DM, of course, but I know there's similar rules in Stronghold Builder's Guidebook for Wonderous Architecture, and it translates beautifully to ships. Oh yeah, and area damage is good, too. :b:
Aeolius 07-10-03, 01:08 PM	Originally posted by ShadeGirl I've always wanted to do a sea campaign for SOOOO long!!!! The last campaign I was in, I begged the DM for something of that nature to no avail. How about an undersea adventure? :D
ShadeGirl 07-10-03, 01:32 PM	Well, we did do an undersea adventure that was extremely stressful! But our chars were high level at that time, so it wasn't so much of a problem. I would like to experiement my chars with a sort of 'swashbuckling' adventure before they are too high level to take the fun out of it. :)
Aeolius 07-10-03, 02:28 PM	Originally posted by ShadeGirl Well, we did do an undersea adventure that was extremely stressful! But our chars were high level at that time, so it wasn't so much of a problem. My undersea campaign begins with the assumption that PCs can both swim and breathe underwater. That helps take most of the "air-breathers adventuring underwater" stigma out of it.
Kharne 07-10-03, 10:05 PM	There is a Sea Witch prestige in the 1st Relics and Rituals book. It's pretty good for that type of game if I remember correctly. The prestige is specifically tailored to have a caster interact with a ship and with the seas. Your concern about skill points is exactly why we've house ruled +2 skill points/level to every class. It simply allows players to add more "character" to their character...outside their class at least. I agree with Talmariel about your skill point dilemma (and that concentration is a MUST). If you were to use any skill points for sea skills, i'd probably go for navigation or something like that...leave the hoisting of sails to the meats in your party ;)
Dougan Axehammer 07-14-03, 04:48 PM	Important ability scores would be CHA (for being a sorceror or, if you decide, being a bard), CON (for concentration, hp, and fortitude saves), DEX (for balance, reflex saves, and AC), and INT (for skill points (you'll need a lot) and, if you decide, being a wizard). I agree in saying go with a sorceror. The spell selection is more specialized than a wizard's and more direct a bard's, and there is more free reign in casting than a wizard would have. I'm not saying the other classes aren't good, but the sorceror is the best of the three. If you want a second choice, I'd flip a coin between wizard and bard. Both are equal in this case; the stronghold idea is intriguing, but a bard can do more than just cast spells (mutiny anyone?) and both get a splendid amout of skill points and skill selection. And speaking of skills, concentration is definitely a must. So is balance, and I'd house rule a synergy bonus for concentration on a swaying boat; the DCs are very high (for low level characters), and uncast (or miscast) spells can be very unfortunate. I'd also take at least a few ranks in swim and profession: sailor; all hands on deck means all hands, and if the ship starts to sink I can't think of a spell that would help you (except for water breathing.) Any other "seaworthy" skill would be an elective (although Knowledge: Geography and Intuit Direction and Wilderness Lore, Survival in 3.5, would make your usefulness aboard ship very, very important.) The spells I'd choose Talmariel has already listed. They are all very handy on board ship.
Edymnion 07-16-03, 01:52 AM	Skills aren't really going to be as big as your spells on a sea campaign. First thing up, get lots of fire spells. If you are going to go up against ship to ship combat, fire will go a LONG way towards helping you. Fireball the sails, a Melf's Fire Arrow (like acid, but learn it with the fire type instead of acid) dug into the hull constantly doing fire damage should set it ablaze. Be a mobile artillary platform for the ship, with a few repair and support spells. Alter self for gills and webbed hands/feat for better swimming is a good way to go as well. Try this combo: Alter self for gills and webbed hands/feat for easy underwater swimming. Dive overboard when ship to ship combat breaks out. Swim up under the hull of the enemy ship. Proceed to blast the daylights out of the bottom of the ship, the least armored/reinforced area on the hull. Make it sink before the fight gets going. Skills? Concentration, Spellcraft, Knowledge (arcana), the basic stuff. If you have skillpoints left over, max out Swim.
Random bloke 07-16-03, 01:47 PM	Somewhat forgotten: Familiars. Something that flies, or something that swimms. The whole "everyone can breath underwater" may extend to familiars, but it would be a bit ridiculous. And moving speed... Flying stuff is always useful... and can accompany you once you get to the coast. Parrots are good for comedy... but nothing else. Eagles and falcons are classic. A raven... especially one that despises the sea... might be a good idea. Swimming stuff... depends if it can keep up with the ship (unless you're going to put it in a fish bowl... :bored:,) and useless if you're going to spend a quarter of your time or more on land. If you're spending a quarter of your time under water, and a quarter on land, you might have a problem.
Edymnion 07-17-03, 09:03 PM	Originally posted by Random bloke If you're spending a quarter of your time under water, and a quarter on land, you might have a problem. Not really. You can choose to have any spell you cast on yourself also affect the familiar as long as they stay within what, 5' of you? Use Alter Self to give yourself gills, and let the familiar get gills too. Get a Rat as a familiar. Nobody ever notices the rat, and they're great swimmers.
Trydan 07-18-03, 12:27 PM	In my last campaign, I (the DM) was pestered for a ship encounter. So I did one. Little did I realise that one of the players was a closet naval tactician. I lost a 25,000 GP war galley to their leaky tub. But, I'm not bitter... The PC in question asked for a new skill Knowledge (nautical) to be created. He also took the feat Leadership to command a crew. PS: with hind sight, the most offensive spell at sea is actually a druid spell... Warp wood. Sound odd? Well, just think about all the planking on your enemy's hull. I wish I had of thought of it earlier!
Dougan Axehammer 07-18-03, 03:23 PM	Originally posted by Trydan with hind sight, the most offensive spell at sea is actually a druid spell... Warp wood. Sound odd? Well, just think about all the planking on your enemy's hull. I wish I had of thought of it earlier! I had actually thought that a druid might be an interesting change of pace for you, Epicuris. In addition to the interesting prestige classes in MotW, druid skills and spells are good in any terrain setting. For example, the warp wood spell is indeed the most effective (and low level) spell against enemy ships (especially since it won't backfire.) Wilderness lore, as I've mentioned earlier, is a most seaworthy spell. And the druid gets both Concentration and Profession as class skills. Also, druids shape change ability is not limited to types of creatures anymore, only that the druid must be at least familiar with the creature in question and that the creature is of appropriate size. They also have healing spells. And animal companions which can benefit in underwater combat. Some alterations to class abilities may be needed (freedom of movement for woodland stride for instance) but it would still be an interestion choice. Or even multiclass (wizard/druid, sorceror/druid, or even druid/sorceror). One familiar and an animal companion. Oooo, I'm getting chills think of interesting sea tactics.
strange_person 07-18-03, 08:43 PM	Y'know the best ship-combat spell there is? Evard's black tentacles. Cast on the surface of the water, under the enemy ship. Instant immobilization and almost certain sinkage. If you're a Conjuror, you can cast it twice a day at 7th level.
Sarm Ronan 10-23-03, 11:17 PM	I've been running a "swashbuckler" campaign for some time now and I have to say it's been my favourite in almost fifteen years of gaming. I may be getting to this thread late in the game, but if you're interested in this sort of game you should consider picking up AEG's Swashbuckling Adventures. Purists may scoff at the plethora of base classes such as Swashbuckler, Pirate, and Musketeer, but I think each are a wonderful way to go without the need of prestige classes. And...if you do WANT prestige classes...there are over 90 in there. Mostly different sword schools, so pick your favourite blade and learn to fight the way you want. There's also lots of new feats and tons of swashbuckling flavour. It's been a lifesaver for me. Give it a try.
PhaedrusXY 10-24-03, 12:15 AM	I ran an adventure once where the BBEG (well... more of a little, mostly harmless, evil guy, but...) was a sorcerer who had a nice folding boat and a bunch of lackeys to man it. He styled himself as a pirate, and used his spells to take over ships. The best killer combo of spells for low to mid levels I came up with for this: Round 1) Cast Invisibility, shipmates start pelting the enemy ship with X-bows and whatever other ranged weaponry they have. Rnd 2) Cast Stinking Cloud on the enemy ship, or Cloudkill if you are high enough level. Rnd 3 to X-1) Start summoning demons onto the enemy ship that are immune to poison. :devil: Rnd X) Collect your loot. The feat Augment Summoning would be great if you decide to use this. Also, does the pseudonatural template add immunity to poison? I don't remember. If it does, take a level of alienist. :P You can also summon aquatic creatures to use for non-combat reasons. A level of Mindbender would be good to allow you to communicate with all of your summoned creatures telepathically. Also, if you can somehow get access to the Raise Water spell, it can be insanely powerful for this kind of game. Specifically, the Lower Water version of it. I once used that version to create a Whirlpool inside a large building once in an undersea adventure. I also had the Freedom of Movement effect on me (Travel Domain special ability), so it didn't affect me really, I just had to stay out of the way of the flying debris as the building started collapsing, bwahahaha! :angel: I've really enjoyed the sea adventures we've had in one of the current games I'm playing in, both above and below the waves. It would be awesome to play in a campaign centered around that.
Domni Dalrose 10-26-03, 11:15 AM	If your interested in a Swashbuckler class, try Silven Crossroads version. I've a character who's 10th level (worked up from 4th) and it's a very fun class to play :) Swashbuckler core class (http://www.silven.com/adnd.asp?case=show&id=78)